Ice Climbers (SSBU): Difference between revisions

The Ice Climbers are ranked 51st out of 82 on the tier list, putting them at the top of the C+ tier. This is an extreme drop from their 2nd out of 38 ranking in ''Brawl'', and is their worst placement in the series. The Ice Climbers serve as an unconventional take on a fighter that excels at close-quarters combat. With proper execution, they possess some of the highest damage outputs of the entire cast, both in terms of raw power and combo abilities, alongside solid frame data across the board allowing them to take on an aggressive playstyle in spite of their poor mobility. While able to cause devastating damage with unique techniques or simple bread-and-butter combos, the Climbers aren't too susceptible to combos themselves due to their short stature and low falling speed, while the partner climber is capable of disrupting combo attempts by their opponent. Their two-in-one quirk also allows the duo to get away with certain unfavorable situations since the partner climber causes hitlag upon shielding or taking an attack, as well as giving them more leeway with an otherwise mediocre out-of-shield game. These advantages allow the Ice Climbers to become an incredibly threatening character with a very unforgiving advantage state and punish game if their opponent is unable to KO the partner climber quickly.

 

 

Overall, the Ice Climbers' strengths outweigh their weaknesses, but they are still commonly seen as a shell of their former selves, and they lack the representation needed to make them a mainstream presence in competitive play.

The Ice Climbers are a pair of [[weight|middleweight]]s, (weighing 92 units, the same as {{SSBU|Lucario}}, {{SSBU|Wolf}}, {{SSBU|Villager}}, {{SSBU|Mythra}}, and {{SSBU|Steve}}), with a moderately short height, above average [[jump]]s, below average [[air speed]] and [[air acceleration]], with low [[gravity]] and slow [[falling speed]]. Unique to a majority of the roster, they are the archetypical tag team fighters, though each Climber is a unique character in their own right. The partner (Nana by default) is controlled by a CPU and mimics what the leader (Popo by default) does with a seven frame delay. As such, the player is essentially controlling two characters at the same time with slight tweaks; the partner has slightly higher mobility attributes, they will deal less damage, receive more damage, and are knocked back farther than the leader. When separated, the partner's AI takes control over their movement, and guides them back to the leader, ignoring most opponents in their path. While one Ice Climber deals underwhelming damage on their own, the two's power combined can make them very formidable.

Most of the Ice Climbers' grounded moveset is fairly quick and disjointed, allowing for versatile use. Their [[Forward tilt]] has impressive knockback growth, and can 2-frame and KO fellow middleweights at about 135%. [[Up tilt]] is short ranged, but one of the Ice Climbers' most useful moves, hitting multiple times with low knockback and dealing excellent damage. It also allows for a direct chain into a series of [[up aerial]]s until about 115%, making it paramount in initiating combos and kill confirms. [[Down tilt]] is one of their quickest grounded moves, acting as a strong semi-spike at high percentages, and making follow-ups into tech-chases or edgeguards very easy. Dash attack sends opponents above the leader for quick transitions into aerials or desynced combos. Similarly to up tilt. However, it has very low knockback growth, making it only useful in starting combos.

Complimenting their tilts, the Ice Climbers' [[smash attacks]] are also very useful and excellent KO options. [[Forward smash]] is the duo's strongest smash, dealing impressive damage despite it's quick speed, and respectable knockback even at lower percentages, reliably KOing at about 70% at edge of the stage. [[Up smash]] is similarly powerful, but is slower in its start-up and ending. It hits in a wide area directly above the Ice Climbers, and can KO at about 120%. [[Down smash]] is the fastest but also the weakest of the duo's smash attacks. Each Climber swings in one direction, and can even catch large targets with both hits, but if only the leader is currently on stage, they become vulnerable to rolls due to the lack of a hitbox from behind.

The Ice Climbers' aerials are all strong options and are the basis of most of their combos. [[Neutral aerial]] is short ranged, and has weak knockback, but is also quick to start, very safe, fairly damaging, and has a long-lasting hitbox, making it a threatening combo and [[gimp]]ing tool. [[Forward aerial]] is a disjointed hammer swing, which is slow and deceptively inactive, but deals immense damage and is one of the safest air attacks in the game. The partner's version of the move has a sweetspot with a very strong spike that can net a KO impressively early if used at mid percentages, and acts as the Ice Climbers' deadliest [[edgeguard]]ing tool. [[Back aerial]] is an exeedingly  useful move for its quickness, large, disjointed hitbox, incredible safety, and staggering power. Up aerial is one of their best moves for a variety of scenarios. The move has excellent combo and juggling capabilities at low percent, and KO's most opponents at around 110-125% when used out of a [[down throw]]. [[Down aerial]] is a [[stall-then-fall]] that while risky to use, has respectable payoff for landing both on or off the stage, and even offers some combo potential when autocanceled.

The Ice Climbers' [[special]]s all have versatile uses. [[Neutral special]] has the duo each create a slab of ice that slides across the stage, shrinking as they melt. Unlike most projectiles, the ice acts more like a [[container]] or [[soccer ball]] in that the incoming projectile is completely tangible, tanking opposing projectiles even as strong as a Shadow Ball or Charge Beam. This allows the Ice Climbers to counter some projectile spam playstyles more easily. It can also freeze opponents, but not within realistic percents. If attacked with a strong enough attack, the projectile's ownership may change, allowing it to harm the Ice Climbers if collided with. When desynced, the duo can launch 1 Ice Shot at a time and in rapid successsion, making for a very dangerous edgeguard and even a frustrating zoning tool in certain matchups. Their [[side special]], [[Squall Hammer]], is a very respectable move for racking up damage and is relatively safe on shield due to the burst of movement during the final swing. With continued presses, the attack can also be used for recovery purposes, which puts them into a [[helpless]] state. It is also one of the easiest desync methods available to the player. [[Up special]], [[Belay]], covers an excellent distance, the partner Climber is completely intangible until pulling up the leader, and auto-grabs any ledges within range. The leader also has a very situational, but strong hitbox on the way up, allowing for a KO from the top blast zones, or a means to apply extra damage at the end of an aerial combo. Finally, down special, [[Blizzard]], is a long-lasting ledgetrap and combo extender that freezes opponents in their tracks and deals huge amounts of damage at point blank range. Using the attack while an enemy is already frozen increases the freeze time slightly and can allow the duo to make space between them and their opponent if need be, or tack on extra damage while frozen. Specifically, this move is very useful when near the ledge, as it can cover most ledge getup options and freezing an opponent near the edges of a stage can make it easy to nudge them off without any means to escape. It also has priority over some other projectiles and can cancel them if the two collide. Overall, the duo's specials are all useful in various situations and can help to create openings for additional combos or surprise KO's.

An important part of playing Ice Climbers is learning how to consistently perform a tech called [[desynching]]. Desynching is an advanced technique that allows a player to manipulate the partner Ice Climber into acting with different timing than usual. At its most basic form, anytime the partner Ice Climber is not within a specific range of the leader, the partner's AI will take manual control of the partner and return it to the leader. During this time, none of the leader's inputs are read by the partner and it's AI inputs are prioritized until it has returned to the leader, and may act independently of the leader's current movements being performed. Using desyncs can allow for some remarkable combos and setups that are completely impossible with other fighters.

The removal of [[chain grab]]s (and by extension, [[wobbling]]) means that the duo's [[grab]] game has become more situational and in-line with the rest of the roster, limiting it's effectiveness. However, while it is not as potent as it once was, the Ice Climber's grab game is still respectable. The Ice Climber's grab itself has been vastly changed. For starters, only the leader grabs opponents, while the partner cheers. This means that the duo can no longer grab more than one opponent at a time. Additionally, the Ice Climber's grab is the shortest ranged grab in the game, making it risky to attempt to grab in the first place. [[Forward throw]] is a basic throw that has moderately strong base knockback and causes [[tumble]] from 0%. But it's knockback growth is far too low to KO at realistic percents. Back throw also has strong base knockback with little growth, with less damage and a higher launch angle. [[Up throw]] continues this trend to an extreme degree, with virtually nonexistent knockback scaling but very high base knockback. High enough to take stocks at very low percentages or from light and floaty characters if used on a high enough platform on a stage such as Palutena's Temple. [[Down throw]] is by far the duo's best throw. It's main use is to initiate aerial combos, desync combos, and juggles, all of which can be devastating. Any of the Ice Climbers' aerials can be used for combos out of down throw and the opponent's placement in air can make it difficult for them to escape from a combo once it has been started, especially if desynced. While all of their throws (except down throw) are normally subpar at best, any of them can be used to hold an opponent in place for a free hit when desynced.

Barring their situational projectile from Ice Shot, the Ice Climbers have no reliable projectile and can be easily camped out or their projectiles turned against them. The range of their moves is not great—despite being disjointed, their hammers' range can still come up short and can make for some bad matchups, such as {{SSBU|Mythra}} or {{SSBU|Sephiroth}}. Arguably, the changes that hurt the Ice Climbers most are the changes to grab mechanics in ''Ultimate''. The added period of grab intangibility between grabs and the partner's lack of a grab makes the Ice Climbers' previously most potent tool, chain grabbing, nearly impossible. This significantly impedes their cheesing ability compared to ''Brawl'' or ''Melee'' and makes getting a stock off of a single grab much harder. Desyncing in itself can also have it's own drawbacks. An accidental desync off of up tilt or down throw may make it more difficult to follow-up with the duo's combos, or can even cause the partner's attack to miss entirely, hindering the duo's damage-racking capabilities. Desyncing can also leave the partner Ice Climber vulnerable because of the inconsistent reaction time between the leader and the partner; abilities such as [[dodging]], and jumping can be significantly delayed, giving the opponent time to counterattack if properly read. They also retain most of the flaws that plagued them in ''Brawl'' and ''Melee'', such as the difficulty in keeping the partner alive, severe handicaps when the partner is gone, sluggish aerial mobility, and susceptibility to camping, with the former issue being further pronounced as well.

Overall, the Ice Climbers can be intimidating and difficult to understand for new players, and combined with their subpar mobility and severe handicaps when the partner is lost are also considerable barriers of entry. However, learning the quirks of the pair, especially desynching, can open an incredibly potent and powerful game plan. This includes long and relatively free-form combos, many being zero-to-death options—some even being true—as well as other unique setups and mix-ups that very few characters have any proper answers for.

The Ice Climbers' grab game was impacted the most; the partner climber can no longer grab the opponent or act when the leader is grabbed or throwing someone (except when in the air). This dramatically changes the way their combo game works, as it removes the Climbers' extremely powerful chain grabs they were capable of, instead forcing them to rely on [[desynching]] or bread-and-butter strings in order to combo the opponent. Moreover, the leader's grabs have noticeably more startup and ending lag, and much less range, now being the shortest grabs in the game.

Overall, the Ice Climbers are significantly less effective than in ''Brawl''. Their learning curve has become much more steep, as the removal of chaingrabbing and weakening of miscellaneous moves forces them to rely on desynching to perform at full capacity. Even with the changes to game mechanics and late game updates giving them multiple benefits, the Ice Climbers perform worse than in ''Brawl'', and are by far the most nerfed characters in the transition ''Brawl'' to ''Ultimate''.

|ftiltdesc=The Ice Climbers swing their hammers horizontally. Has high knockback growth, being able to KO at around 120%-130% at the ledge.

|dashdesc=The Ice Climbers leap forward, swinging their hammers in front of themselves. It deals mostly vertical knockback that can start combos, but has weak knockback growth and is ineffective for KOing.

|bairdesc=The Ice Climbers swing their hammers horizontally behind themselves. Both hits are extremely safe, being 0 on shield with both, and even -3 even with just 1 Climber.

|uairdesc=The Ice Climbers swing their hammers above themselves in an arc. An excellent juggle tool that can quickly rack up damage both synced and desynced, and can even function as a kill confirm from down throw at around 100% on most characters.

|dairdesc=The Ice Climbers hold their hammers below themselves and fall downward. A [[stall-then-fall]], though with a slower traveling speed that is also unable to [[meteor smash]] , unlike most attacks of its kind. The hitbox covers most of the Ice Climber's body, making it good for punishing opponents who attempt to juggle. As a result, it is usually used as a niche landing option.

|grabdesc=The leader reaches in front of themselves with their free hand. Their grab range is the shortest in the game.

|dthrowdesc=The leader lifts the opponent over their head with both hands and slams them on the ground. The Ice Climbers' only throw with even remotely noteworth KO potential, it can KO middleweights at around 214% on Final Destination. It is also effective for starting combos, especially when desynced.

|nsdesc=Each Ice Climber summons a small stalagmite of ice and hits it with their hammer, causing it to slide along the ground, gradually shrinking as it travels. It bounces off walls and shields. If attacked by an opponent, the ice rebound and will hurt the Ice Climbers if they touch it. The ice can freeze opponents at extremely high percents. The first midair use will pop the Ice Climbers up slightly.

|ssdesc=The Ice Climbers stand back-to-back while spinning around an axis with their hammers outstretched, hitting opponents multiple times. The attack is concluded with them swinging their hammers upward, which launches opponents away. By repeatedly tapping the special move button, the Ice Climbers will rise in the air, allowing them to recover. This, however, also renders them [[helpless]]. If only one Climber is present, the move deals less damage and knockback, and won't provide vertical gain. It's one of the easiest moves to use as a method to begin desyncs, and can trap opponents between each Ice Climber once a desync is achieved.

|usdesc=The leading Ice Climber throws the partner the air with a rope. The partner then pulls the leader upwards. If there is a nearby edge, the partner will target it, and then proceed to pull the leader to the ledge as well. While rising, the partner is invincible, allowing for a safe recovery for both Ice Climbers; additionally, the partner Ice Climber possesses a hitbox that deals powerful vertical knockback, though it is risky to use as an attack due to its narrow and mostly vertical reach. Without a partner, the move will grant next to no distance. Each Ice Climber becomes [[helpless]] after the move is used.

Upon ''Ultimate''{{'}}s release, the Ice Climbers' competitive perception, which was estimated to be poor, dwindled even further and, in turn for worse, became more significant than most would think. Several of the cast have immediately acknowledged their retained weakness (which have also been more pronounced): the infamous difficulty of maintaining both climbers in a single stock, the partner's vulnerability, their steep learning curve, poor endurance, slow aerial mobility, their vulnerability to [[camping]] and the severe handicaps brought to the leader if the partner dies during the stock, as well as the removal of several quirky combos and zero-to-deaths involving the partner from previous installments. As such, the Ice Climbers’ representation was minuscule, and all the players who mained the duo in ''Brawl'' have completely dropped them in favour of other characters. As a result, the general consensus had widely perceived them to be either low or bottom-tier.