Editing Forum:Who's stronger in Brawl, Ness or Lucas?

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I just think that lucas has something better than ness but ness also has something better than lucas.

I was just wondering people's opinions of who is better, Ness or Lucas?. [[User:Smash Dood|Smash Dood]] ([[User talk:Smash Dood|talk]]) 07:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC) 
:I don't really consider ANY character "better" than any other. But I suppose I like lucas just a hair more than ness due to his smashes and [[Zapjump]]. But that's not to say Ness doesn't have his own benefits. - [[User:Gargomon251|Gargomon251]] ([[User talk:Gargomon251|talk]]) 06:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
::IMO id say that Lucas is stronger, but its difficult to get it right, cause he is so slow, so Lucas is stronger, and Ness is faster, but i prefer speed over power any day. [[User:Curlyheadbanger|Curlyheadbanger]] ([[User talk:Curlyheadbanger|talk]]) 02:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ness isn't faster than Lucas. Actually, Lucas runs a little faster and has a faster F-Smash. Their D-Smashes have the same speed, but Lucas' has more knockback. Ness' PK Thunder, on the other hand, is faster, but it can't go through people. Given all this, I'd say Lucas is better. - [[User:GalaxiaD|GalaxiaD]] ([[User talk:GalaxiaD|talk]]) 17:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I say its Ness because of his awsome throws, pk thunder2, and his pk fire edgeguarding [[User:Cree318|Cree318]] ([[User talk:Cree318|talk]]) 22:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a massive difference for me. I love Lucas' PSI attacks, which Ness has very few of. Lucas is the way to go. [[User:Dexington|Dexington]] ([[User talk:Dexington|talk]]) 03:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
:Im sorry, I said it wrong, I meant that Lucas has a higher lag than Ness. Am I correct?[[User:Curlyheadbanger|Curlyheadbanger]] ([[User talk:Curlyheadbanger|talk]]) 02:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. - [[User:GalaxiaD|GalaxiaD]] ([[User talk:GalaxiaD|talk]]) 03:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not crazy about either, but I prefer Lucas. [[User:Admiral Tobias|Admiral Tobias]] ([[User talk:Admiral Tobias|talk]]) 04:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I say Lucas is better. His smash attacks, especially his up smash, are much stronger than Ness's. Also his PK Thunder can hit enemies multiple times, unlike Ness's which can only hit once, and you can kinda Wall of Pain with it. You should see his PK Thunder 2, it can do 30% damage and looks awesome! Plus, with the Wave Zap, Lucas has a much better recovery than Ness. {{Template:Signatures/Tienjt0}} 22:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Ness, no contest. PK Freeze absolutely sucks, and I really don't care for lucas's lower strength. I even give ness's final smash a better rating, because thats almost 2x stronger.

I believe Ness is better, he may have a slower dash, but he has a faster walking speed, Ness is more my type of character [[User:JtM|JtM]] ([[User talk:JtM|talk]]) 05:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


Wait whose stronger in what? They all vary. Ness has a stronger air game, and Lucas has a stronger ground game. Lucas has better tilts, but Ness has stronger grabs. Their specials also vary, so I could come up with a never-ending list. But to say whose stronger overall? 
I guess I could say it like this. 

Ness > Lucas

'''BUT'''

Lucas > Other

Ness is probably a soft counter for Lucas, but Lucas has more better match ups than Ness. I'm a Lucas mainer myself btw... <_< [[User:ItemHazard|ItemHazard]] ([[User talk:ItemHazard|talk]]) 23:00, 24 June 2008 (UTC) ItemHazard

Ness is one of my mains.  He has a slower running speed, but faster walking speed, and he's much more powerful!  He seems to have less ending lag.  Also, Ness' attacks seem to have a wider range than Lucas'.
Overall,
Ness > Lucas
[[User:ParaGoomba348|ParaGoomba348]] ([[User talk:ParaGoomba348|talk]]) 21:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I perfer Lucas by a longshot (though I still like Ness). I perfer all of his B attacks (Including Final Smash) and his tripping taunt is cool. [[User:Maxiscool|Maxiscool]] ([[User talk:Maxiscool|talk]]) 22:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't like Lucas.  Wait a minute...(sees Maxiscool's choice) NOOO WHYYYYYY MEEEEEEEEEE?
[[User:ParaGoomba348|ParaGoomba348]] ([[User talk:ParaGoomba348|talk]]) 23:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

No one is really "stronger" than another character but I prefer Lucas,His attacks usually have more range since they usually have PSL something with them.His aerials have high priority plus I like His specials better than Ness. [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 00:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Ness is my choice, he has a reliable meteor smash, stronger Final Smash, a faster and stronger PK Thunder that can become a PK Thunder 2 thats even stronger then Lucas's PK Thunder 2, Ness has a great edge guard (PK Fire) and PK Flash is REALLY powerful. [[User:Learner4|Learner4]] ([[User talk:Learner4|talk]]) 14:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Ness is better against more than one person.  Since Lucas' PK Thunder rips through enemies, he is vulnerable longer.  For example, if Lucas was at 30%, an Ike was at 0%, and a Captain Falcon was charging a Falcon Punch, and Lucas used PK Thunder on Ike, it would rip through him, and Lucas couldn't move.  Because of that, BAM!!!!  The Falcon Punch KO's Lucas.  Let's try it with Ness'.  If NESS used PK Thunder on Ike, it would send him flying, then Ness could use PK Flash to KO Captain Falcon, then breaks a Smash Ball and uses PK Starstorm on Ike, Ike gets KO'd, and Ness wins the match.
[[User:ParaGoomba348|ParaGoomba348]] ([[User talk:ParaGoomba348|talk]]) 21:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

:Heres a better decision,with Lucas's Pk Thunder you rip through Ike then follow Captain Falcon and rip them both out.Hows that? - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 21:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

::What the... ParaGoobma, you're saying Lucas doesn't have enough time to recover from PK Thunder to avoid Captain Falcon, but Ness does have enough time to use PK Flash on Captain? Someone explain '''that''' one to me. [[User:Maxiscool|Maxiscool]] ([[User talk:Maxiscool|talk]]) 22:08, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I personally think that ness is better because his pk fire is stronger and longer lasting than lucas's, and pk flash is awesome 2. [[User:Xtrme|Xtrme]] ([[User talk:Xtrme|talk]]) 22:04, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, ParaGoomba's explanation didn't really make sense. For one, I don't think a Falcon Punch KO's at 30%. If anything, he'd receive some knockback, but then he could use his back aerial to spike Ike into the depths. He could then deal with C. Falcon as the final showdown. Second, a Falcon Punch charges and releases much faster than PK Flash, so there's no way Ness could KO C. Falcon in time without receiving the Falcon Punch. However, he could roll away from the Falcon Punch after connecting PK Thunder to Ike and then use his up smash on Ike to start a combo and rack up damage. - [[User:GalaxiaD|GalaxiaD]] ([[User talk:GalaxiaD|talk]]) 02:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Know how you find out? Put level 9 Ness's and Lucas's against each other 10 times. Whoever wins the most is better. I think ness is better.--[[User:Oxico|Oxico]] ([[User talk:Oxico|talk]]) 17:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Level 9 computers play differently than pros. All it does is tell you which CPU is better. [[User:Maxiscool|Maxiscool]] ([[User talk:Maxiscool|talk]]) 17:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Lucas has more recovery options than Ness because of his Zap Jump and Rope Snake, while Ness has quicker finishers. --[[User:TStick|TStick]] ([[User talk:TStick|talk]]) 00:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm just gonna step into this one and say that they're the same, only that Ness is better against 2 or more, while Lucas is better against one.  For example, Ness' up has a wider range than Lucas', so Ness could hit more opponents more easily.  However, because Lucas' is stronger, Lucas could easily KO, but is harder to pull off against more than one person.  Because of the ending lag of PK Fire, since Lucas' doesn't explode or hit multiple times, he could get attacked after it.  Because Ness' hits multiple times, those advancing on Ness could get hit by the PK Fire.  Because of the Zapjump, Lucas can recover better, but remember the ending lag.  However, since Lucas' PK Fire has knockback, it'd ideal for one player.  Ness' doesn't last very long, so they could get out of it and attack Ness.  Lucas' PK Fire is slower, but you can Wall of Pain with it, and it's stronger, great for one player.  However, Lucas' PK Thunder is slow, and Lucas is vulnerable longer with it, making it so that the other enemy can attack you.  Ness is also vulnerable, but it hits once, so Ness could attack after it.  PK Flash maybe slower than PK Freeze, but PK Freeze is MUCH harder to control, so against one enemy, it's great, but against 2 or more, someone could attack you while you use it, since PK Freeze lasts longer than PK Flash.  However, PK Flash is easier to control and has a bigger blash radius, so you can attack more since it doesn't last as long and it's stronger.  But because of it being so slow, that one person could attack you during it.  Lucas has a faster running speed, Ness has a faster walking speed.  Finally, Ness is a better edgegaurder due to PK Thunder, Fire, and Flash.  Lucas is a better edgehogger because of tether recovery.  Overall, they are the same, but I like Ness more (grabs).
[[User:ParaGoomba348|ParaGoomba348]] ([[User talk:ParaGoomba348|talk]]) 22:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

The PK Fire bit is a bit untrue since it has a good knockback so even as sonic, the opponent wouldn't have time to get up and attack.Pk Freeze also has a wider range it can move in than Pk Flash albeit more difficult though. Ness gots those crazy powerful edgeguarding skills with his aerials though...(And Lucas's Up smash Stays out for a much longer time than you think) - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 01:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

== ness is  ==

nees is a lot stronger and i sometimes see hes faster to

Very convincing argument! I used to like Lucas more but now I see the errors of my former ways! I offer to shave my head and follow you! I'm being sarcastic! I overuse exclamation points! [[User:Maxiscool|Maxiscool]] ([[User talk:Maxiscool|talk]]) 23:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

==Finally!==
Ness is once more better than Lucas. And the statement that Lucas has better matcups is just plain false. Lucas only has 6 matchups that are better than Ness' respective ones. All the others are either better for Ness or the same. True, Lucas' Thunder and Magnet are better, but Ness' PK fire is better and PK flash is better than freeze(it actually does knockback). In fact, Ness' thunder is actually more usefull as an offensive move, as his PK thunder 2 actually does knockback, and as his PK thunder stops after it hits an enemy, it is very useful for juggling. Ness' starstorm is better, although final smashes aren't allowed in competetive play. Ness' side smash is better, and his aireals are too. Lucas' up and down smashes are more powerful, but Ness' can actually damage enemies even while charging. Ness' throws are better. What other attacks are there? Well, there's his down tilt, which can spike, and his neutral A combo is quite decent. I think Lucas fans just got pwned. Edit: one more thing: It's a well known fact that Ninten defeated giygas and Lucas defeated Porky. But Ness defeated both Giygas '''and''' Porky. At the same time. [[Special:Contributions/98.111.95.78|98.111.95.78]] 04:19, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
:I raise my glass to this. Ness finally is greater than Lucas, and its not opinion, but fact now! <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 05:47, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
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 {{Forumheader|Brawl Talk}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->
-I just think that lucas has something better than ness but ness also has something better than lucas.  <span style="color:red">'''--User was temp banned for this post'''</span>
+I just think that lucas has something better than ness but ness also has something better than lucas.
 I was just wondering people's opinions of who is better, Ness or Lucas?. [[User:Smash Dood|Smash Dood]] ([[User talk:Smash Dood|talk]]) 07:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
@@ Line 19: / Line 18: @@
 I'm not crazy about either, but I prefer Lucas. [[User:Admiral Tobias|Admiral Tobias]] ([[User talk:Admiral Tobias|talk]]) 04:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
-I say Lucas is better. His smash attacks, especially his up smash, are much stronger than Ness's. Also his PK Thunder can hit enemies multiple times, unlike Ness's which can only hit once, and you can kinda Wall of Pain with it. You should see his PK Thunder 2, it can do 30% damage and looks awesome! Plus, with the Wave Zap, Lucas has a much better recovery than Ness. Template:Signatures/Tienjt0 22:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
+I say Lucas is better. His smash attacks, especially his up smash, are much stronger than Ness's. Also his PK Thunder can hit enemies multiple times, unlike Ness's which can only hit once, and you can kinda Wall of Pain with it. You should see his PK Thunder 2, it can do 30% damage and looks awesome! Plus, with the Wave Zap, Lucas has a much better recovery than Ness. {{Template:Signatures/Tienjt0}} 22:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 Ness, no contest. PK Freeze absolutely sucks, and I really don't care for lucas's lower strength. I even give ness's final smash a better rating, because thats almost 2x stronger.
@@ Line 72: / Line 71: @@
 The PK Fire bit is a bit untrue since it has a good knockback so even as sonic, the opponent wouldn't have time to get up and attack.Pk Freeze also has a wider range it can move in than Pk Flash albeit more difficult though. Ness gots those crazy powerful edgeguarding skills with his aerials though...(And Lucas's Up smash Stays out for a much longer time than you think) - [[User:Hatake91|Hatake91]] ([[User talk:Hatake91|talk]]) 01:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
-[[Lucas]] Can freeze opponnents.--[[User:Not Spock|Not Spock]] ([[User talk:Not Spock|talk]]) 19:25, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 == ness is  ==
@@ Line 85: / Line 81: @@
 Ness is once more better than Lucas. And the statement that Lucas has better matcups is just plain false. Lucas only has 6 matchups that are better than Ness' respective ones. All the others are either better for Ness or the same. True, Lucas' Thunder and Magnet are better, but Ness' PK fire is better and PK flash is better than freeze(it actually does knockback). In fact, Ness' thunder is actually more usefull as an offensive move, as his PK thunder 2 actually does knockback, and as his PK thunder stops after it hits an enemy, it is very useful for juggling. Ness' starstorm is better, although final smashes aren't allowed in competetive play. Ness' side smash is better, and his aireals are too. Lucas' up and down smashes are more powerful, but Ness' can actually damage enemies even while charging. Ness' throws are better. What other attacks are there? Well, there's his down tilt, which can spike, and his neutral A combo is quite decent. I think Lucas fans just got pwned. Edit: one more thing: It's a well known fact that Ninten defeated giygas and Lucas defeated Porky. But Ness defeated both Giygas '''and''' Porky. At the same time. [[Special:Contributions/98.111.95.78|98.111.95.78]] 04:19, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 :I raise my glass to this. Ness finally is greater than Lucas, and its not opinion, but fact now! <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 05:47, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
-==Ness Definately==
-Besides comparing the up smashes, Ness seems like a stronger character than Lucas. His bat is stronger, his PK Flash is stronger than the PK freeze, and his PK thunder is a stronger attack when hit by Ness, rather than Lucas. [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 18:38, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
-==Ness is==
-I don't know much of them because I neither play too often against those characters nor I ever use them or have very much interest on what they have. But this is what I can say.
-:Lucas has a much better recovery than Ness, it is longer and he has much more options there. But overall Ness is better than Lucas. Lucas is recently losing mains so his tournament results are cureently the 2nd worst in the game (only Jigglypuff has worse), while Ness has around the 13th worst results. The grab release problems are more issue for Lucas than Ness, Ness is hard to grab because his aerials don't lack range like Lucas and are more useful overall despite having better air mobility overall. Also, though Lucas' Smashes are very powerful, but they all suffer from a massive amount of ending lag like his tilts except the Down Tilt have significant ending lag without having great range, damage input or knockback. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 12:52, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
-==LUCAS!==
-Although this is opinionated (he's ma main), Lucas's smashes all have KO potential (the up smash does have ending lag). PK Fire is stronger then Ness and isn't that cheap and his PK thunder can be used multiple times. His netural air can effectivly deal damage and he can metor smash (then again, Ness can too). Ness's down smash isn't as strong as Lucas's, and if Lucas's U-Smash hits, it can KO easily. I have yet to see reason otherwise and tbh, I'm bad with Ness.--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 23:44, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
-:Well multiple hits don't make an attack strong, they just make them better to combo on opponents. But I guess it's a tie then. [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 03:07, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
-:Lucas' PK Fire is not stronger than Ness, as it cannot lead into combos. Ness' PK thunder 2 is also stronger than Lucas'. Ness' spike is also stronger than Lucas', as are his throws. <choose><option><span style="color:red;">[[User:Mr. Anon|Mr.]]</span> <span style="color:green;">[[User talk:Mr. Anon|Anon]]</span> <span style="color:blue;">[[Special:Contributions/Mr. Anon|teh awsome]]</span></option><option>[[User:Mr. Anon|Anon]]</option><option>[[User:Mr. Anon|Sir]] [[User Talk:Mr. Anon|Anon]] [[Special: Contributions/Mr. Anon| the great]]</option></choose> 21:15, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
-::His PK fire has more knock back, and isn't a spamming like move. PK thunder 2 is something that I frankly don't care about, as PK thunder is always a move that one barely uses in a serious Brawl. Lucas still has a better smashes.--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 04:56, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
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