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| {{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ --> | | {{Forumheader|Watercooler}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ --> |
| {{Proposal|y}}
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| When these sections on character pages were conceptualized, they were meant to include only "historically significant" players, i.e. the very best players of the characters on a national level, or players who in the past had a huge impact on the character's competitive presence. They were explicitly not to be used to list just any pretty good player who uses the character, nor any big-name player who just occasionally messes around with the character (i.e. stop listing Mew2King on every single character he used once in a tournament). They were to provide a handy reference for readers on the most important players for that character; if readers wanted to see all the other players who competitively used the characters, that is what the character-specific categories were for. When I was around I was strict about enforcing this, but as my activity here wavered, I see these sections have become absolutely bloated, especially on the Smash 4 character articles. I made some attempts here and there when I was around to clean up some of them, but as I see those efforts did not stick and they just bloated back up. | | When these sections on character pages were conceptualized, they were meant to include only "historically significant" players, i.e. the very best players of the characters on a national level, or players who in the past had a huge impact on the character's competitive presence. They were explicitly not to be used to list just any pretty good player who uses the character, nor any big-name player who just occasionally messes around with the character (i.e. stop listing Mew2King on every single character he used once in a tournament). They were to provide a handy reference for readers on the most important players for that character; if readers wanted to see all the other players who competitively used the characters, that is what the character-specific categories were for. When I was around I was strict about enforcing this, but as my activity here wavered, I see these sections have become absolutely bloated, especially on the Smash 4 character articles. I made some attempts here and there when I was around to clean up some of them, but as I see those efforts did not stick and they just bloated back up. |
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| :Cleanup really does need to happen <small> Oh Jamal, Where art thou </small> [[File:PoultrysigSSB4.png|20x50px]][[User:Poultry|<font color="red">'''Poultry'''</font>]][[File:PoultrysigSSBM.png|20x50px]]''([[User talk:Poultry#top|<font color="blue">talk</font>]])'' the Team Liquid 10:50, 15 April 2016 (EDT) | | :Cleanup really does need to happen <small> Oh Jamal, Where art thou </small> [[File:PoultrysigSSB4.png|20x50px]][[User:Poultry|<font color="red">'''Poultry'''</font>]][[File:PoultrysigSSBM.png|20x50px]]''([[User talk:Poultry#top|<font color="blue">talk</font>]])'' the Team Liquid 10:50, 15 April 2016 (EDT) |
| ::I will try to assist in the cleanup as much as I can, but it's going to be extremely difficult to look through 58 pages. It has definitely gotten out of hand, though. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:30, 15 April 2016 (EDT) | | ::I will try to assist in the cleanup as much as I can, but it's going to be extremely difficult to look through 58 pages. It has definitely gotten out of hand, though. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 13:30, 15 April 2016 (EDT) |
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| Bumping this as it got knocked out of the recent changes pretty quickly. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:37, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
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| :Yes, I too have been trying to keep some of the bloating down by requiring proof of notability for anyone adding smashers to the list, but I don't have the competitive background to properly fact-check any of it (aside from looking at their article if they have one...but as you said, these are supposed to be smashers of the utmost notable). <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">'''King'''</span></span>]] 20:48, 15 April 2016 (EDT)
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| :Should we limit it to those whom we consider top professional with the given character? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0; text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">'''King'''</span></span>]] 19:59, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
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| ::No, what we have listed as the player's skill shouldn't be used as a determining factor, else it just promotes the problem we have now described in my OP.
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| ::Example: We have {{Sm|Bloodcross}} considered a "top professional" in Brawl here, but he doesn't merit being placed in Meta Knight's "notable players" section, as there were always several Meta Knights better than him at any point in time during Brawl's competitive life, and he was never considered among the best Meta Knights nor was he ever responsible for innovating Meta Knight's metagame to new heights. The epitome of "pretty good player with the character, but never historically significant to the character's competitive presence".
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| ::Such a criteria would especially harm lower tier characters on the opposite spectrum; many, if not most, of their most significant players wouldn't qualify as "top professional" by our standards. Instead, it would lead to such characters' sections being filled up with the Mew2Kings of the world who occasionally sandbag with the character, all of which will lead to the "notable players" section grossly misrepresenting the playerbase most responsible for the character's competitive presence. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:24, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
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| :::Then that would mean characters like Zelda, Jigglypuff, Lucina, King Dedede and Palutena are safe from this?
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| :::Also, Ganondorf has wayy too many notable players in my opinion. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]], '''a user with no grammar at all :v''' [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 21:34, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
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| ::::No, all I said was that we wouldn't use our "skill" listing to determine who goes in these sections. Even when you account for their lower standards, lower tier characters are very much suffering from this dilution problem too. Taking a brief glimpse at Lucina, there's no way over half those players belong there (seriously, 12 players are there for one of the most competitively unpopular characters in the game, in only a year and half worth of history?). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:01, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
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| :::::In your opinion, which smashers from these characters should be purged? --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]], '''a user with no grammar at all :v''' [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 22:04, 16 April 2016 (EDT)
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| ::::::Speaking specifically about Lucina, I would say almost everyone, actually. I think it says a lot about a "notable players" category when two of the inactive players listed on there are very likely better than everyone listed in the "active" section. Salem got 25th place at EVO 2015 with Lucina (which is better than anyone else has ever done with the character) and Nairo's secondary Lucina has taken sets off of players such as Angel Cortes (although I don't necessarily think this is enough to keep him listed). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 00:09, 17 April 2016 (EDT)
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| Bump, maybe, now that OT is here? --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]], '''a user with no grammar at all :v''' [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 17:49, 20 April 2016 (EDT)
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