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| :::::I only named 2 of the 16 slots: the 2 most likely to get picked first. And even if it is Smash 4, it would look weird as **** seeing Mango and Armada fight round 1. Yes, to brawl and melee players alike; everyone knows who the Kings are. And speaking of brawl, I never implied or meant to imply Brawl players won't get invites. I actually don't really care who the eventual 16 people will be, though there are very, very good guesses. And are you actually opposed to changing it from FD Only to FD + Battlefield + whatever neutral looking stages that have been released? Do you mean to say it would be best if we just played FD only, no questions asked? If it "isn't optimal," why not take steps to fix it NOW. Like I said we only need like 5 stages for proper striking.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 16:32, 30 April 2014 (EDT) | | :::::I only named 2 of the 16 slots: the 2 most likely to get picked first. And even if it is Smash 4, it would look weird as **** seeing Mango and Armada fight round 1. Yes, to brawl and melee players alike; everyone knows who the Kings are. And speaking of brawl, I never implied or meant to imply Brawl players won't get invites. I actually don't really care who the eventual 16 people will be, though there are very, very good guesses. And are you actually opposed to changing it from FD Only to FD + Battlefield + whatever neutral looking stages that have been released? Do you mean to say it would be best if we just played FD only, no questions asked? If it "isn't optimal," why not take steps to fix it NOW. Like I said we only need like 5 stages for proper striking.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 16:32, 30 April 2014 (EDT) |
| ::::::"''And even if it is Smash 4, it would look weird as **** seeing Mango and Armada fight round 1.''"
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| ::::::When it's 16 top players in a game no one ever played before? It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, stop sucking Melee's dick all the time, the two best players there are not going to be automatically the best players in a game no one ever played (especially in a pool of 14 other top players on pretty much the same skill tier). Also, why the hell are you self-censoring yourself?
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| ::::::"''Yes, to brawl and melee players alike; everyone knows who the Kings are.''"
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| ::::::So you directly insinuate now that the Melee players are superior and should be treated better in a completely neutral game no one ever played, can you ever stop being so biased towards Melee? How many times must I point out to you that this sort of attitude just makes the Melee community look bad and dissuades Brawl (and soon-to-be Smash 4) players, along with other potential new players, from having anything to do with Melee?
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| ::::::"''And are you actually opposed to changing it from FD Only to FD + Battlefield + whatever neutral looking stages that have been released? Do you mean to say it would be best if we just played FD only, no questions asked?''"
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| ::::::I'm saying it doesn't matter for this tournament in the slightest, when it's a showcase tournament before release played on a demo version that wouldn't have probably even half the stages available, and that it's the last thing (besides seeding, which is such a ridiculously awful complaint for this) to get your panties in a bunch over. As long as it's not all stages on random and not playing on janky stages, it's perfectly fine for this tournament, and there isn't going to be a real practical difference here between FD only, BF only, FD+BF+other stage deemed "neutral".
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| ::::::"''If it "isn't optimal," why not take steps to fix it NOW. Like I said we only need like 5 stages for proper striking.''"
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| ::::::Because it's not going to make a real difference either way, and for the latter point, you seemed to have ignored when I pointed out that A: it's a demo version that won't have many of the stages available, and B: we never played on the stages here before and would have no idea how they would actually work outside FD and BF. Expecting a full stagelist with full counterpicking here is being completely unrealistic and overdemanding, and for a showcase demo event like this, it's best to go with the safe option (i.e. FD or BF only) instead of experimenting with something that could really fuck the event up (again, we don't know how the hell the other stages would actually play, and of any potential bugs they could have). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 17:11, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::::The safest option is FD + BF if you are gonna insist that there no other fully neutral stages (I seriously doubt that). If there is a 3rd stage like Dreamland or Smashville, then we can do bans again. Demo or not, the best option is to maintain as much competitive integrity as possible; we don't want new players seeing this for the first time and assuming this potentially degenerate form of tournament play will be the future. Platforms drastically change what battle positions and options are safe/not safe in neutral. And if we are talking unlikely possibilities (like stage bugs), maybe if Sakurai did the right thing and restored Marth, Fox, and Peach to their Melee forms, then FD only becomes an auto-win for Mew2king and Armada. And when I said "Kings" I was referring to the fact that Mango vs Armada is probably the most well known, modern Smash Rivalry, made even more famous from the Melee Documentary.
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| ::::::::"''The safest option is FD + BF''"
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| ::::::::You can't strike between two stages, and I shouldn't have to explain to you why random stage picking would be worse than just one of the stages being allowed.
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| ::::::::"''if you are gonna insist that there no other fully neutral stages (I seriously doubt that)''"
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| ::::::::No stage is "fully neutral" to begin with, not even Battlefield. And yes, there will most certainly be other suitable starter stages, but would we know for sure which ones they are until we get our hands the game ourselves and can fully experiment? Not at all, so there are no additional stages we can say for sure can be used to form a stagelist here.
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| ::::::::"''Demo or not, the best option is to maintain as much competitive integrity as possible''"
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| ::::::::As long as it's no items, with stocks, and on a competitively suitable stage, it's "maintaining as much competitive integrity as possible".
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| ::::::::"''we don't want new players seeing this for the first time and assuming this potentially degenerate form of tournament play will be the future.''"
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| ::::::::We don't want them seeing a match decided by some janky unknown stage element, and assuming that Smash 4 is poorly designed and won't be fit for competitive play in the future.
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| ::::::::"''Platforms drastically change what battle positions and options are safe/not safe in neutral.''"
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| ::::::::Platforms change things, yes, but "drastically" is way overstating it. And for a showcase tournament of a demo, intricacies like this do not matter.
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| ::::::::"''And if we are talking unlikely possibilities (like stage bugs), maybe if Sakurai did the right thing and restored Marth, Fox, and Peach to their Melee forms, then FD only becomes an auto-win for Mew2king and Armada.''"
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| ::::::::Potential stage bugs are a very likely occurrence '''when the game will still be in development when this tournament happens'''. In fact, speaking of that, a lot of the characters probably won't be available either; Nintendo and Sakurai are going to want this to show off Smash 4 in the best possible light, and in doing so, are going to want to ensure what is available to play on is 99% certain to work properly. And I shouldn't have to explain why worrying about "auto-wins" and severe matchup issues is ridiculous for a game we never played.
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| ::::::::Seriously Brian, stop with the unrealistic expectations, stop with the notion of "everything has to be 100% competitively optimal or it's going to be shit", and stop refusing to consider the circumstances and what the event is supposed to be. If Smash 4 was a released game with at least a general knowledge of what's competitively viable in it, and this was meant to be a EVO level national meant to find the absolute best player, and not just be an event to show off your appreciation of the players while showing off the game in the most competent hands, then yes your complaints would be valid. But since this is not that, and is a celebratory event to show off the game, your complaints are irrelevant. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:24, 30 April 2014 (EDT)
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