Editing Forum:Get rid of "update history" section in character pages?

{{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
{{Proposal|n}}
So I am suggesting that we remove the "update history" section in character pages, as this essentially is the same information as what can be found on [[Special:PrefixIndex/List_of_updates_(SSB4)|these pages]]. Having this on the character pages really is just extra clutter: Having a "changes from Brawl" section which details changes from Brawl to the latest version of SSB4 should really be plenty. But I wanted to hear all your thoughts on the matter as usual, so please, discuss. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 20:42, 2 February 2016 (EST)

===Support removal===
#'''Support'''. 1) There's a table of contents. So no clutter. 2) It makes the page easier to read. 3) We can keep the CFB section up to date without worrying about an extra section. [[User:Ganonmew|<span style="color: green;">'''Ganonmew'''</span>]], [[User talk:Ganonmew|<span style="color:green;">'''The Evil Clone'''</span>]] 20:51, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Support'''. I like the idea of there being a section called "Changes from Brawl" and just listing the changes from Brawl that are current with latest patch in SSB4. Also, to pick out of the four choices Miles provided, I would pick the second option. What really matters most is how the character plays now; not how it used to play in previous update. If somebody does want to know, they can look at the changelogs of the game. Eventually these updates will come to end. It seems more relevant now to include them because it wasn't too long ago for us to play the game it was before, but I don't imagine that the game will be continually balanced for much longer. Assuming that the balancing will stop in less than a year, the past changes to the character will become less and less relevant (imagine 5 years from now or even 10 years perhaps if the Wiki is still around). Another thing is that the past updates cannot be played. It makes sense to include changes from previous games (SSB64 > Melee > Brawl > SSB4) since those games can still be played as they are. The previous versions of SSB4, however, cannot be played, which, in my opinion, makes it completely irrelevant to the character currently. EDIT: If possible, I would also support Toomai's idea. [[User:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#FF0000">Unknown </font>]] [[User talk:Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#780000">the </font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Unknown the Hedgehog|<font color="#000000">Hedgehog</font>]] 22:22, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Support''' [[User:Poultry|<font color="red">'''Poultry'''</font>]] ''([[User talk:Poultry#top|<font color="blue">talk</font>]])'' EZMONEY!! 07:07, 3 February 2016 (EST)

===Oppose removal===
#'''Strong oppose'''. I like being able to see a character's changes on their page without having to scroll through a list of characters I don't necessarily care about. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  20:44, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#:...That's what the table of contents is for. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 20:47, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#::Eh, still. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small>  20:49, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Extra clutter?''' Oppose. Also there's no log for 1.0.4 [[User:KirbysCrazyAppetite|Kirby's Crazy Appetite]] ~ [[File:KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png|50x20px]] 20:49, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#:[[List of updates (SSB4-3DS)/1.0.4 changelog|There is]]; it's just not on the list of Wii U updates. [[File:Zyrac sig.png]] <font face="Lucida Console">[[User:Zyrac|<font color="green">'''Zyrac'''</font>]]<small>([[User talk:Zyrac|<font color="green">talk</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Zyrac|<font color="green">contribs</font>]])</small></font> 05:30, 3 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Oppose'''... because I was the one who started the project. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] <font color="Black">'''The 70's called. They said'''</font> [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou was here :v'''</font>]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 21:21, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Oppose.''' Cluttered? [[User:Penro|Penro, the]] [[File:PenroDarkPitHead.png|19px|Dark Pit]] and [[File:PenroZSSHead.png|19px|ZSS]] main.  22:21, 2 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Oppose.''' People want to know how their favourite characters have been changed by updates. And I wouldn't want someone who hasn't been keeping up to look at a move and think "oh hey, when did that change?". The changelogs aren't convenient for this because you'd have to look at every one of them to get the full picture. They also don't have the summary of how the character has changed since release and how they were affected by global changes. [[File:Zyrac sig.png]] <font face="Lucida Console">[[User:Zyrac|<font color="green">'''Zyrac'''</font>]]<small>([[User talk:Zyrac|<font color="green">talk</font>]]•[[Special:Contributions/Zyrac|<font color="green">contribs</font>]])</small></font> 05:30, 3 February 2016 (EST)

#'''Oppose'''. I agree with Zyrac; it is inconvenient to have to see all updates at several different place. People care about updates, so if someone wants to see how updates change a fighter, they'll have to spend more time to see the big picture. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 12:37, 3 February 2016 (EST)
#'''Oppose.''' It would be inconvenient to say the least. Let it be.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale|talk]]) 12:47, 3 February 2016 (EST)

===Neutral===
Hope you don't mind me adding this new section, but I can't make up my mind. I'm just not sure what to do. On one hand, people might want to compare the old to the new. On the other hand, it is less cluttering. However, it would be annoying to check each, individual update. Would they at least be put on a new, separate page? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 20:49, 2 February 2016 (EST)

'''Undecided'''. If we removed it we would still have to update every page where the character changed. We wouldn't have the same data however on two different pages, however. It seems less convenient to have it like this and would have to look at multiple different pages just to see what we could be seen in one section. We could have all updates in one page which would alleviate that problem. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 20:54, 2 February 2016 (EST)

This is going to be a huge mess no matter how you do it. The problem is that you have to decide which of the following we care about listing on the main "Character (SSB4)" page:
*Total changes from Brawl to SSB4 with no patches
*Total changes from Brawl to SSB4's current patch
*Total changes from SSB4 with no patches to SSB4's current patch
*Patch-by-patch update history
Logistically there's no easy way to present all of these in a concise manner. The issue is that none of them are "wrong", as much as they're providing some of the same data in different ways. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:12, 2 February 2016 (EST)
:Given that the information exists elsewhere, why is it needed on each individual character page? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 21:23, 2 February 2016 (EST)

I mean, the obvious solution to me is to make "Character (SSB4)/Update history" subpages, and then link/transclude that in the places where it's necessary. But since I don't have the code ready to do that in a super-cool way yet I haven't brought it up. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Labbie 22:03, 2 February 2016 (EST)
:You mean making a page where you can just have one page to use to display changes in different articles (like a template or something)? That may a good idea. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 22:10, 2 February 2016 (EST)
::It might be, but still let's see where this forum ends. EDIT: --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] '''The 70's called. They said''' [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou was here :v'''</font>]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 02:31, 8 February 2016 (EST)

The course of action for the "List of buffs (game)" and "List of nerfs (game)" pages was to delete those pages and keep the info on the Character (game) pages, where it already was. Does that decision have anything to do with this? I think Toomai's plan would be best, personally, even though that would mean making 58 more pages. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 23:43, 2 February 2016 (EST)

I agree with Toomai, to create subpages and transclude them on the character's fighter page. It's actually really simple to transclude a page, you simply link to it like normal, but instead of using the link brackets (<nowiki>[[</nowiki> & ]]), you use the curly braces that are also used for templates (<nowiki>{{</nowiki> & }}), and add a colon (:) before the name if it is in the main namespace. So, if you would name the page Mario (SSB4)/Update history, you can transclude it by putting <nowiki>{{:Mario (SSB4)/Update history}}</nowiki> on another page. <span style="font-family:Onyx; font-size:11pt">'''[[User:TheSilentHero|<font color=#000000>The</font><font color=#008000>Silent</font>]][[User talk:TheSilentHero|<font color=#000000>Hero</font>]]'''</span> 13:27, 10 February 2016 (EST)
:Please fix your signature. The text is much too big. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 13:29, 10 February 2016 (EST)
:Yeah, transcluding is easy. We would have to make a ton more pages, though. It would insure both pages are consistent. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 13:45, 10 February 2016 (EST)
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