Editing Forum:Console Articles
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:Looks like there's an agreement. Much thanks to all who agree with me. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font><sup>([[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|Talk]])</sup> 17:57, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | :Looks like there's an agreement. Much thanks to all who agree with me. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">Blue Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font><sup>([[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|Talk]])</sup> 17:57, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
::We currently have 4 people for, 0 against. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 18:06, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | ::We currently have 4 people for, 0 against. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 18:06, 7 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
::Like Anon said, we have 4 people in support of deleting irrelevant articles like Game Boy, and in a year, nothing has been done. I'm tagging the unneeded articles for deletion. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 16:47, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ::Like Anon said, we have 4 people in support of deleting irrelevant articles like [[Game Boy]], and in a year, nothing has been done. I'm tagging the unneeded articles for deletion. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 16:47, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
:::So we're going to sacrifice completion of a logical set for a very strict cutoff of relevancy? And how is the NES (for example) not relevant if Brawl has a Masterpiece of one of its games? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Sharp 18:11, 20 December 2012 (EST) | :::So we're going to sacrifice completion of a logical set for a very strict cutoff of relevancy? And how is the NES (for example) not relevant if Brawl has a Masterpiece of one of its games? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Sharp 18:11, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
::::"Strict cutoff"? Everything should have relevance; otherwise we might as well redirect SmashWiki to Google or Wikipedia. The cutoff is ''very'' reasonable; what, pray tell, does the Game Boy have to do with ''any'' of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games? A character came from there? OK, well in that case, let's make an article for the [[Wikipedia:Sega Genesis|Sega Genesis]]; Sonic's first game was on that console. But why stop there? We'll need articles on the [[Wikipedia:personal computer|PC]]/[[Wikipedia:MSX2|MSX2]] since Snake's first game launched on those consoles. Do you see how that works? We're not the Game Console Wiki. The NES is not notable even if it has ties to Brawl's Masterpieces because that's still a very, ''very'' small amount of information not worthy of a full article. This is the logic that brought about those worthless articles on games like ''Sonic Adventure 2''. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 18:48, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ::::"Strict cutoff"? Everything should have relevance; otherwise we might as well redirect SmashWiki to Google or Wikipedia. The cutoff is ''very'' reasonable; what, pray tell, does the Game Boy have to do with ''any'' of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games? A character came from there? OK, well in that case, let's make an article for the [[Wikipedia:Sega Genesis|Sega Genesis]]; Sonic's first game was on that console. But why stop there? We'll need articles on the [[Wikipedia:personal computer|PC]]/[[Wikipedia:MSX2|MSX2]] since Snake's first game launched on those consoles. Do you see how that works? We're not the Game Console Wiki. The NES is not notable even if it has ties to Brawl's Masterpieces because that's still a very, ''very'' small amount of information not worthy of a full article. This is the logic that brought about those worthless articles on games like ''Sonic Adventure 2''. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 18:48, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
:::::I am okay with potential Genesis and MSX2 articles. I am not okay with having a Smash Bros. wiki that has articles for some Nintendo systems and not others. If you want these articles deleted I'm not going to do it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Different 19:04, 20 December 2012 (EST) | :::::I am okay with potential Genesis and MSX2 articles. I am not okay with having a Smash Bros. wiki that has articles for some Nintendo systems and not others. If you want these articles deleted I'm not going to do it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Different 19:04, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
::::::I'm not OK with that, because those articles wouldn't at all be relevant. I was using those examples to show how flawed this logic is. I would like to see the articles deleted but I'm not in charge, and I lack the tools necessary to delete them myself. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 19:07, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ::::::I'm not OK with that, because those articles wouldn't at all be relevant. I was using those examples to show how flawed this logic is. I would like to see the articles deleted but I'm not in charge, and I lack the tools necessary to delete them myself. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 19:07, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
:::::::I'm ok with those articles since they would serve the same pupose as these articles. In fact I might encourage it because when someone reads what console a character originated from they might want to read an article like that. For aricles like NES instead af a reader having trouble find what characters came from NES they are all listed there which is a difference however between Sega Genesis and PC/MSX2 since our current articles on consles list several character origins which is why I have these articles like NES under a higher priority. [[User: Brawls of fury| <span style="color: brown;">Brawls</span>]] [[User Talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkred;">of</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkorange;">fury</span>]] 19:25, 20 December 2012 (EST) | :::::::I'm ok with those articles since they would serve the same pupose as these articles. In fact I might encourage it because when someone reads what console a character originated from they might want to read an article like that. For aricles like [[NES]] instead af a reader having trouble find what characters came from [[NES]] they are all listed there which is a difference however between Sega Genesis and PC/MSX2 since our current articles on consles list several character origins which is why I have these articles like [[NES]] under a higher priority. [[User: Brawls of fury| <span style="color: brown;">Brawls</span>]] [[User Talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkred;">of</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkorange;">fury</span>]] 19:25, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
::::::::I understand where you're coming from but those articles would be so small that they would better fit on something like a "console origins list." It would be better just to link to Wikipedia rather than having those insignificant single-sentence on this wiki. What reader is going to try and find out where the characters came from? These readers certainly exist, which is why we have the universe articles, which list games that the ''Super Smash Bros.'' universe draws elements from. They'd also look for something the lines of "[this character] first appeared in X for the Nintendo Y" which, if not already present, should be put in place. The "Y" as I said could link to Wikipedia (as many other things do as well as to other NIWA wikis; I expect no one to act appalled at such a suggestion). Console articles are irrelevant, especially in regards to origins because they don't explain anything besides what games they hosted, which is insignificant data. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 19:35, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ::::::::I understand where you're coming from but those articles would be so small that they would better fit on something like a "console origins list." It would be better just to link to Wikipedia rather than having those insignificant single-sentence on this wiki. What reader is going to try and find out where the characters came from? These readers certainly exist, which is why we have the universe articles, which list games that the ''Super Smash Bros.'' universe draws elements from. They'd also look for something the lines of "[this character] first appeared in X for the Nintendo Y" which, if not already present, should be put in place. The "Y" as I said could link to Wikipedia (as many other things do as well as to other NIWA wikis; I expect no one to act appalled at such a suggestion). Console articles are irrelevant, especially in regards to origins because they don't explain anything besides what games they hosted, which is insignificant data. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 19:35, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
:::::::::Yes but then where is the limit to what we should link to other wikis and what is relevant? Your main arguement is on the irrelevance of these articles. Does this mean that any articles with sections that have to much on stuff outside Smash Bros. should just have links to other wikis such as articles like [[Mario|this]] and [[Pokémon Trainer|this]] because it would save data and have much better descriptions? [[User: Brawls of fury| <span style="color: brown;">Brawls</span>]] [[User Talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkred;">of</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkorange;">fury</span>]] 20:05, 20 December 2012 (EST) | :::::::::Yes but then where is the limit to what we should link to other wikis and what is relevant? Your main arguement is on the irrelevance of these articles. Does this mean that any articles with sections that have to much on stuff outside Smash Bros. should just have links to other wikis such as articles like [[Mario|this]] and [[Pokémon Trainer|this]] because it would save data and have much better descriptions? [[User: Brawls of fury| <span style="color: brown;">Brawls</span>]] [[User Talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkred;">of</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Brawls of fury|<span style="color: darkorange;">fury</span>]] 20:05, 20 December 2012 (EST) | ||
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:::::::::::::::::::::"Only three consoles hosted Super Smash Bros. games (N64 - SSB, GCN - SSBM, Wii - SSBB), and even they hold little relevant information other than the charts on their pages."-BNK said this on the top of the page and what is "strawman"? <span style="font-family:Impact">''[[User:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#CC5500">BRAWLS</span>]] [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]] OF [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]][[User talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#8A3324">FURY</span>]]''</span> 17:41, 23 December 2012 (EST) | :::::::::::::::::::::"Only three consoles hosted Super Smash Bros. games (N64 - SSB, GCN - SSBM, Wii - SSBB), and even they hold little relevant information other than the charts on their pages."-BNK said this on the top of the page and what is "strawman"? <span style="font-family:Impact">''[[User:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#CC5500">BRAWLS</span>]] [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]] OF [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]][[User talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#8A3324">FURY</span>]]''</span> 17:41, 23 December 2012 (EST) | ||
::::::::::::::::::::::Given those quotes, you still can't prove that I support those consoles' deletion from the mainspace. '''Those consoles are relevant because they hosted Super Smash Bros. games,''' and their information (such as how much memory they hold which is relevant because the ''SSB'' games take up a certain amount of memory and so do certain hacks if I can recall correctly, and I can go on and on) is relevant because it ties into things like [[hack]]ing (a good portion of the mainspace), [[controller]]s (used by [[smasher]]s and needed to explain how moves are performed, etc.), and other soft/hardware. I'm convinced you're not taking this discussion seriously, and [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html this is a straw-man.] You straw-manned by assuming that since I want to delete ''actual irrelevant'' console articles like Game Boy and NES as I've ''explicitly outlined above'', I also somehow want to have articles like the N64, GCN, and Wii deleted, which I ''never'' supported. Try thoroughly reading my words. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 17:57, 23 December 2012 (EST) | ::::::::::::::::::::::Given those quotes, you still can't prove that I support those consoles' deletion from the mainspace. '''Those consoles are relevant because they hosted Super Smash Bros. games,''' and their information (such as how much memory they hold which is relevant because the ''SSB'' games take up a certain amount of memory and so do certain hacks if I can recall correctly, and I can go on and on) is relevant because it ties into things like [[hack]]ing (a good portion of the mainspace), [[controller]]s (used by [[smasher]]s and needed to explain how moves are performed, etc.), and other soft/hardware. I'm convinced you're not taking this discussion seriously, and [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html this is a straw-man.] You straw-manned by assuming that since I want to delete ''actual irrelevant'' console articles like Game Boy and NES as I've ''explicitly outlined above'', I also somehow want to have articles like the N64, GCN, and Wii deleted, which I ''never'' supported. Try thoroughly reading my words. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 17:57, 23 December 2012 (EST) | ||
:::::::::::::::::::::::When you said "Only three consoles hosted Super Smash Bros. games (N64 - SSB, GCN - SSBM, Wii - SSBB), and even they hold little relevant information other than the charts on their pages" I thought you wanted them for deletion because irrelevance was the same reasoning you used here and you were acussing them of having more irrelevance than relevance. And of course I took this disscusion seriously; there was just a misunderstanding is all. Sorry for the misinterpretation. <span style="font-family:Impact">''[[User:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#CC5500">BRAWLS</span>]] [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]] OF [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]][[User talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#8A3324">FURY</span>]]''</span> 18:42, 23 December 2012 (EST) | :::::::::::::::::::::::When you said "Only three consoles hosted Super Smash Bros. games (N64 - SSB, GCN - SSBM, Wii - SSBB), and even they hold little relevant information other than the charts on their pages" I thought you wanted them for deletion because irrelevance was the same reasoning you used [[Nintendo Entertainment System|here]] and you were acussing them of having more irrelevance than relevance. And of course I took this disscusion seriously; there was just a misunderstanding is all. Sorry for the misinterpretation. <span style="font-family:Impact">''[[User:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#CC5500">BRAWLS</span>]] [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]] OF [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]][[User talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#8A3324">FURY</span>]]''</span> 18:42, 23 December 2012 (EST) | ||
:::::::::::::::::::::::I have taken your advice on thoroughly reading your words and I can't find where you said you don't support deletion of host game consoles. In fact when you say "[Console Articles] Are they ''really'' necessary? Looks like a bunch of unneeded information on top of a chart that could otherwise be explained on character articles. Only three consoles hosted Super Smash Bros. games (N64 - SSB, GCN - SSBM, Wii - SSBB), and even they hold little relevant information other than the charts on their pages." you are saying that the information could be explained on character articles which implies you would support deletion. In this quote you even say information on host console articles could be found on character pages Your reasoning only justifies the GCN, N64, and Wii articles, but the others are still useless (information on them can be found on character and universe articles respectively)." <span style="font-family:Impact">''[[User:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#CC5500">BRAWLS</span>]] [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]] OF [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]][[User talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#8A3324">FURY</span>]]''</span> 01:22, 24 December 2012 (EST) | :::::::::::::::::::::::I have taken your advice on thoroughly reading your words and I can't find where you said you don't support deletion of host game consoles. In fact when you say "[Console Articles] Are they ''really'' necessary? Looks like a bunch of unneeded information on top of a chart that could otherwise be explained on character articles. Only three consoles hosted Super Smash Bros. games (N64 - SSB, GCN - SSBM, Wii - SSBB), and even they hold little relevant information other than the charts on their pages." you are saying that the information could be explained on character articles which implies you would support deletion. In this quote you even say information on host console articles could be found on character pages Your reasoning only justifies the GCN, N64, and Wii articles, but the others are still useless (information on them can be found on character and universe articles respectively)." <span style="font-family:Impact">''[[User:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#CC5500">BRAWLS</span>]] [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]] OF [[File:BoFSig.png|19px]][[User talk:Brawls of fury|<span style="color:#8A3324">FURY</span>]]''</span> 01:22, 24 December 2012 (EST) | ||
::::::::::::::::::::::::I don't support deletion of N64, GCN, or the Wii. I can see how you'd think I'd want some information removed (which is no longer my stance in regards to the mentioned consoles which host ''Super Smash Bros.'' games), but you've still, overall, failed to grasp the context. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 02:06, 24 December 2012 (EST) | ::::::::::::::::::::::::I don't support deletion of N64, GCN, or the Wii. I can see how you'd think I'd want some information removed (which is no longer my stance in regards to the mentioned consoles which host ''Super Smash Bros.'' games), but you've still, overall, failed to grasp the context. <font face="LuzSans-Book" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 02:06, 24 December 2012 (EST) | ||
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Are you deleting the N64, Gamecube, and Wii articles too? Because those have revelance to the Smash Bros. Series (console limitations, frame data, what-have-you). [[User:BlueRidiculous|<font color="blue">'''''Blue'''''</font>]][[User talk:BlueRidiculous|<font color="maroon">''Ridiculous''</font>]] 14:42, 26 January 2013 (EST) | Are you deleting the N64, Gamecube, and Wii articles too? Because those have revelance to the Smash Bros. Series (console limitations, frame data, what-have-you). [[User:BlueRidiculous|<font color="blue">'''''Blue'''''</font>]][[User talk:BlueRidiculous|<font color="maroon">''Ridiculous''</font>]] 14:42, 26 January 2013 (EST) | ||
:He just said that above (''"Also remember this proposal does not include getting rid of articles for consoles that had/will have Smash games on them (N64, GCN, Wii, 3DS, WiiU)."''). --[[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 14:49, 26 January 2013 (EST) | :He just said that above (''"Also remember this proposal does not include getting rid of articles for consoles that had/will have Smash games on them (N64, GCN, Wii, 3DS, WiiU)."''). --[[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 14:49, 26 January 2013 (EST) | ||
