Editing Forum:Character pages

{{forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content below this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->
{{Proposal}}

Recently, there has been some debate as to whether or not [[Navi]] from {{uv|The Legend of Zelda}} and [[Slime]] from {{uv|Dragon Quest}} are worthy of their pages. In the discussion, it was also argued that characters such as Link's {{s|zeldawiki|pig}} from ''Wind Waker'', the fairies from ''Wind Waker'', and the {{s|nookipedia|Horned Dynastid}} from {{uv|Animal Crossing}} (potentially among other options) should get their own pages, as a character in a victory pose is as much a part of a character's portrayal in ''Smash'' as a character in a taunt (which is entirely a part of their moveset). In the same discussion, it was also brought up how [[Rush]] and [[Beat]] from {{uv|Mega Man}}, [[Lloid]] from ''Animal Crossing'', and the [[Phantom]] from ''Phantom Hourglass'' have their own pages, while [[F.L.U.D.D.]] and the [[Wild Gunman]] only have pages for their appearances as a move. Previously, there were also discussions about [[Talk:Ness#Add in that Earthbound is Ness’s only real appearance or remove it from Lucas’s page|whether or not a costume counted as a full appearance]], and with it, the question of "why do Mii Fighter costume characters get pages?" was brought up. With all of this being said, I think it should finally be laid down exactly '''which''' characters, based on their appearances in ''Smash'', should get pages.

I would like to lay down the following claims:
#Obviously, first and foremost, a character that's playable in the game or comes from an assisting item, like the Assist Trophy or the Poké Balls, gets a page. I know we are all basically in agreement on this, but I'm honestly just mentioning this as a formality, so that there's a solid list that we can work off of.
#If a character makes an appearance within a moveset, then they should get a page.
#:'''However''', if a character simply acts as the move itself, rather than actually assisting in the attack, then the page detailing the move in question would suffice. For an example, [[Rush Coil]] would perfectly be fine to describe Rush and his origins within the ''Mega Man'' series, but because [[Chain Attack]] is based on the mechanic from {{uv|Xenoblade Chronicles}} rather than at least one specific character in question, then the page for Chain Attack would describe the mechanic itself, and the characters that cameo within the attack would get their own pages describing themselves.
#::This would also be how someone like [[Petey Piranha]] would work; while he is a boss in Subspace, he is also a part of [[Petey Piranha (Final Smash)|Piranha Plant's Final Smash]], so detailing the move itself and the boss fight from ''Brawl'' in the same page (parroting how [[Ridley]]'s page has been treated) would be an acceptable option.
#If a character appears within a moveset outside of an attack, such as a taunt or a victory pose, then they should get a page.
#:'''However''', if a non-playable character is simply present for aesthetic purposes, such as [https://xenoblade.fandom.com/wiki/Azurda Azurda] appearing in [[Rex]]'s hoodie or {{s|dragonquestwiki|Munchie}} appearing in [[Hero|Eight]]'s pocket, then they should '''not''' get a page, as it is simply an aesthetic crowd-pleaser cameo, and does not add anything major to the character itself.
#If a character is present as a mechanic in a stage, such as a boss or a hazard, then they should get a page. Minor background cameos should not get pages.
#If a character is present as a mechanic in a mode, such as an enemy in the single-player modes like [[Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary|Subspace]] or [[Smash Run]], or as an assistant in [[Smash Tour]], then they should get a page.
#If a character makes an appearance as a Mii Fighter costume, then they should get a page, as the costumes fall under the "[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/well-yes-but-actually-no playable but actually not playable]" archetype, given their special treatment in Direct and non-Direct presentations.
#Other characters that appear as trophies, stickers, spirits, and any other unlisted cameo do not get special character pages, though if they appear multiple times throughout the series, then they are viable to get a disambiguation page that links to the character's series' trophy, sticker, and/or spirit list(s), along with, should they appear as a stage cameo, a link to the stage they cameo in.
#:As a side note, if they don't have a full page (as in, just a disambiguation page), then [[Template:Background characters|this template]] should link to their interwiki pages, rather than the disambiguation page.

I am not going to declare these as new rules; I am simply proposing them, based on the current state of discussions being held on the Navi talk page. They are thoughts that occurred to me as I was writing my most recent comment (at the time of this writing), and, as I would like to come to a conclusion as much as the rest of us would, I figured this would be the best course of action. Feel free to discuss. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 22:13, July 29, 2019 (EDT)
:I'm still not feeling the Smash Tour assistant pages; they're not the actual character in question, just trophies that give little bonuses. They're basically equivalent to spirits, and shouldn't be treated as more than that. Other than that, I thiiiink these rules are pretty solid. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 23:01, July 29, 2019 (EDT)
::I can see that, given how they're essentially the same as overworld spirits. We could potentially give overworld spirits pages, or we could not have Smash Tour items as pages, but it can't be "one but not the other". [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 23:40, July 29, 2019 (EDT)
:::I'd lean towards a "List of Smash Tour items" page. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 02:38, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
::::What about the Smash Tour enemies? If they can be seen as real enemies, Smash Tour items can also be seen as items.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 03:34, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::::If we're talking only about the enemies in Smash Tour, then that would only give the [[Iridescent Glint Beetle]], [[Reaper & Reapette]], [[Souflee]], and [[Tac]] pages as all the others had pages for being stage hazards or Poke Ball Pokemon. Because of ''Ultimate'', the only pages granted by being Tour Items are [[Dixie Kong]], [[Energy Tank]], [[Plasm Wraith]], [[Ghosts (Luigi's Mansion)]], and [[Tetra]]. If we're talking about enemies in Smash Run, it gives pages to a whole lot more characters, including the Iridescent Glint Beetle, Reaper & Reapette, Souflee, and Tac. So if we did not want Smash Tour Items to have individual pages, despite them affecting game play, we'd only lose pages for Dixie Kong, Energy Tank, Plasm Wraith, Ghosts (Luigi's Mansion), and Tetra. [[Special:Contributions/47.199.39.81|47.199.39.81]] 04:13, July 30, 2019 (EDT)


:I don't think move pages can replace character pages. Whether the names are the same or not, the function of move is only the ability of characters, not themselves. like Rush Coil just one of its original functions; Beat has the same name as the character and move, but different origins.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 03:27, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
::I agree. If the origins were to match, then they should be rewritten to focus more on what the page is about. The move, you talk about what the move is based on. The character, you talk about who it is, and can go more in-depth about them. Weather it be talking about F.L.U.D.D. or Rush, or the moves that they are apart of. [[Special:Contributions/47.199.39.81|47.199.39.81]] 04:13, July 30, 2019 (EDT)


:So, Should Mii costumes not have pages? And the characters of the stage platform? Technically speaking, they are indeed the Stage hazard. How about the [[Poké Floats]] and turtle in [[Great Bay]]?--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 03:27, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
::For stage platforms, I would say yes as they are apart of the stage itself as a mechanic on it, just like the [[King of Red Lions]] on the [[Pirate Ship]], so they would fall under number 4. In the case for Poké Floats, it would gave pages to Psyduck, Slowpoke, Wooper, Sudowoodo, Seel, Lickitung, and Geodude. As for Mii costumes, it seems like they fall under Number 6 of the proposed rules. So as disappointing as it is, Mii costumes, like Chocobo, Lloyd, Ribbon-Girl, and Heihachi Mishima, probably won't get pages. [[Special:Contributions/47.199.39.81|47.199.39.81]] 04:13, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::If so, whether the [[Toad]] has a page or not depends on how we deal with the move characters.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 04:35, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
::::If Toad did not receive his own page, I know it would still cover his cameos in trophies, stickers, and spirits (all of which would be moved to the character page), but would his appearances in Melee’s Adventure Mode and as a Mii costume be covered? It doesn’t seem like those two appearances would make sense to be covered on a move page. Toad is part of the move set of Peach, and now Daisy, so he falls under number 2 of the proposed rules, which means he would keep his page. [[Special:Contributions/47.199.39.81|47.199.39.81]] 05:20, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::::(Responding to both this section and the one before it)
:::::Beat's origin, as well as the Tornado Hold, is also (currently) covered under the Rush Coil page, since it's the same move, just with a different character (or ability, in Tornado Hold's case). I also vehemently oppose duplicate information, when it's completely unnecessary. F.L.U.D.D., for example, has ''no'' reason to need two pages, when one covers it just fine. However, an easy solution (that I have used elsewhere) is to have a character page that simultaneously serves as the special moves page - as in, it looks like a character page, with the same infobox, but it links to (or, if the move is differently named, is made to look like it links to) the special moves template.
:::::Also, I meant to include Mii costumes in my list of characters that get pages from the beginning. The list has now been updated. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 08:32, July 30, 2019 (EDT)

"If a character is present as a mechanic in a mode, such as an enemy in the single-player modes like Subspace or Smash Run, or as an assistant in Smash Tour, then they should get a page."
I feel like a clarification on [[Master Spirits]] is due. Unlike most spirits they act as assistants you can interact with in spirit mode, even having lines of dialogue. As such I think that they might warrant a page, but I can see arguments for them not having one. [[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 01:59, July 31, 2019 (EDT)
:People are arguing against the inclusion of assistants in Smash Tour, since they're essentially the same as the overworld Spirits, and don't offer anything outside of that (aside from the obvious Spirit battle bonus, but semantics). However, if Smash Tour assistants (and, by extension, overworld Spirits) got pages, I could see Master Spirits getting a page too, since they are as important gameplay-wise as the other two. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 02:32, July 31, 2019 (EDT)

Bumping this. I'd like to bring up again the topic mentioned right above this comment, in regards to Smash Tour items, and both overworld and Master Spirits; a level of consistency would have to be reached, since it shouldn't really be one or the other. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 19:27, August 4, 2019 (EDT)
:I think as I've mentioned, I'd like "list" pages for these. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 19:44, August 4, 2019 (EDT)
::I agree, they are of the same level, and don't need separate pages.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 14:32, August 9, 2019 (EDT)
Don't we already have [[SW:CNA|a policy dictating what does and doesn't get an article]], or does it need a thorough rewrite? - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 18:03, August 13, 2019 (EDT)
:You know, I didn't even remember that that existed. Might rewrite it, assuming this passes.
:On that note, does anyone else have anything else to add to this? Because I might end up rewriting it instead of making something new if no one else does. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 18:07, August 13, 2019 (EDT)
Don’t think we need to delete victory taunts and such instead of keep them instead of adding on and on. [[User talk:RobbyB3ll4s| 7:06, September 10th, 2019 (EST)
:I never did like those disambiguation pages for minor characters. We got an [[Amy Rose (disambiguation)]] but no actual Amy Rose page? I think if a character makes enough appearances in Smash to warrant a disambiguation of the different lists that have them, I think they should get a full page. Disambiguations should be for subjects with similar names, not characters that aren't notable enough for a page because they are on a couple of Trophy tables. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 20:00, September 28, 2019 (EDT)
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