Editing Forum:"Sandbag" characters when recording results

{{forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content below this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->
{{Proposal|failed|2=No traction in over a year, and this got discussed on Discord before, with nothing compelling being presented to treat character usage in non-Melee games differently. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:17, April 18, 2023 (EDT)}}

Recently a discussion popped up on Discord regarding the addition/removal of sandbag characters for the results tables.  In the past we've been ignoring sandbag characters when top players use them during pools; top players could pull out and win with any character when against a low-level player, making it cheap to say that the character contributed to a player's placement. As a result, characters such as Hungrybox's Ganondorf at {{Trn|CEO 2014}} or Mew2King's Pichu were not added to the results table.
E
However, a lot has changed since we started doing this. As brought up in Discord, top players have seen upsets in pools especially for later games such as ''Smash 4'' and ''Ultimate''. (eg. {{Sm|Charliedaking}}, {{Sm|LeoN}}, and {{Sm|DM}} at {{Trn|Glitch 8.5}}), which means that even if they were to sandbag, they may have an equal chance of losing the set when compared to using their main. We're also at a point in time where the ''Smash'' roster is so huge that mid or low-tier characters do often have legitimate usage, even in top 8 (eg. at {{Trn|BIG LAB: Awakening}}, where Bloom4Eva used Corrin and Jigglypuff to defeat a top 10 UK player in Grand Finals). 

This does not mean we should start adding Mew2King's Pichu to results tables; there's still a huge gap between top player and low-level players in ''Melee''. However, there is an argument that this gap is very likely smaller in the recent titles, so there should be a change to this rule, or at least have it be less strict for the recent titles. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 01:33, September 27, 2021 (EDT)

==Support==
Personally I think they should be listed in melee as well. If it contributed to a set win, then it contributed to a set win. If mew2king wanted to get the entire roster on a results table, then that is his prerogative. [[User:Gagesango|Gagesango]] ([[User talk:Gagesango|talk]]) 05:06, September 27, 2021 (EDT)

'''Support''', for ''Ultimate'' at the very least, compare to ''Melee'', where players have way bigger skill difference, they can easily get a pool win with one of the characters on the roster. But ''Ultimate'' is a very different game, not only is the roster way more deep and extensive, allowing players to do counterpick wars a lot more often since way more matchups are possible. There are also a bunch of rising stars to the point that a pool opponent can be challenging, many upsets can be caused in a major. Many tournaments can have depths and many regions have talents. So I can see that being more lenient with ''Ultimate'' is a good idea. It is however tough to say for something like ''Smash 4'', the game was not only dead for a while now basically, it was also generally less balanced than ''Ultimate''.[[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 12:25, June 17, 2022 (EDT)

==Oppose==

==Comments==
I'm personally going to wait on this because I am rather neutral on this subject, so I want to see the arguments for this first. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 01:33, September 27, 2021 (EDT)
	You aren't logged in. While it's not a requirement to create an account, doing so makes it a lot easier to keep track of your edits and a lot harder to confuse you with someone else. If you edit without being logged in, your IP address will be recorded in the page's edit history.
	Log in	Create account
Insert common text
Signature	~~~~
Symbols	£ ¥ ° ± × ÷ € ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥
Diacritics	À Á Â Ã Ä Å Æ Ç È É Ê Ë Ì Í Î Ï Ð Ñ Ò Ó Ô Õ Ö Ø Œ Ù Ú Û Ü Ý Þ ß à á â ã ä å æ ç è é ê ë ì í î ï ð ñ ò ó ô õ ö ø œ ù ú û ü ý þ ÿ
Wikitext	[] [[]] \| [[Category:]] [[File:]] #REDIRECT: [[]] {\| \|- \|\| \|}
Templates	{{cleanup}} {{image}} {{reflist}} {{stub}} {{d}} {{delete}}
Formatting	<!----> <br> <code></code> <gallery></gallery> <nowiki></nowiki> <ref></ref> <references/> {{#widget:YouTube\|id=}}
Substitution	<includeonly></includeonly> <noinclude></noinclude>