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Forum:Charizard's speed actually faster.: Difference between revisions
Forum:Charizard's speed actually faster. (edit)
Revision as of 21:27, November 28, 2011
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:::{{cquote|...when I play as him.}} | :::{{cquote|...when I play as him.}} | ||
:::Stopped reading right there. --- <font face="American Typewriter">''[[User:ReiDemon|Rei]][[User_talk:ReiDemon|Demon]], Author Extraordinaire''</font>, 00:48, 28 November 2011 (EST) | :::Stopped reading right there. --- <font face="American Typewriter">''[[User:ReiDemon|Rei]][[User_talk:ReiDemon|Demon]], Author Extraordinaire''</font>, 00:48, | ||
28 November 2011 (EST) | |||
::::Urk..... Ignore that part...... I Actually put up many good parts. Just see all parts referring to me as crossed out, since my computer can't seem to do it right....... Seriously Charizard could be a low "B" tier hadn't been for being put together with three others and Stamina.[[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 01:08, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ::::Urk..... Ignore that part...... I Actually put up many good parts. Just see all parts referring to me as crossed out, since my computer can't seem to do it right....... Seriously Charizard could be a low "B" tier hadn't been for being put together with three others and Stamina.[[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 01:08, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ||
:::''The kick breaks any frontal attempt to fight and leaves enemy at the mercy of Charizard's attack combo. Even a skilled Meta-Knight player will have small difficulty with this.'' | :::''The kick breaks any frontal attempt to fight and leaves enemy at the mercy of Charizard's attack combo. Even a skilled Meta-Knight player will have small difficulty with this.'' | ||
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:::''As for aerials, Charizard's up smash can thwart any overhead attack with great unpredictable speed.'' | :::''As for aerials, Charizard's up smash can thwart any overhead attack with great unpredictable speed.'' | ||
:::Except...a competent player won't approach from directly above where their options are limited. Now you could catch someone making an aerial approach off guard with a sudden running up smash, but it could only work as an infrequent mix-up, and not something to be relied on, as commonly used aerials will outspeed Charizard's u-smash. Also, you stale Charizard's best finisher with this, farther hindering its use for success. | :::Except...a competent player won't approach from directly above where their options are limited. Now you could catch someone making an aerial approach off | ||
guard with a sudden running up smash, but it could only work as an infrequent mix-up, and not something to be relied on, as commonly used aerials will outspeed Charizard's u-smash. Also, you stale Charizard's best finisher with this, farther hindering its use for success. | |||
:::''Flamethrower blocks and cancels projectile attacks.'' | :::''Flamethrower blocks and cancels projectile attacks.'' | ||
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:::Powerful? Indeed they are. But awesomely powerful? Not quite. Ike's, Ganondorf's, and Snake's ground attacks are awesomely powerful. And while most of Charizard's ground attacks are powerful, most of them are also really slow, which limits their use quite a bit. | :::Powerful? Indeed they are. But awesomely powerful? Not quite. Ike's, Ganondorf's, and Snake's ground attacks are awesomely powerful. And while most of Charizard's ground attacks are powerful, most of them are also really slow, which limits their use quite a bit. | ||
:::''For recovery, Fly is only a little boost upward. It does however, knock off characters edge hogging and blocking if they come in contact, thanks to it's high knockback.'' | :::''For recovery, Fly is only a little boost upward. It does however, knock off characters edge hogging and blocking if they come in contact, thanks to it's high | ||
knockback.'' | |||
:::Pretty much any recovery move with a damaging hitbox can knock an edge hogger off the ledge. And no matter how powerful a move is, it will not knock off an edge hogger who times their edge hog to exploit the invincibility frames. | :::Pretty much any recovery move with a damaging hitbox can knock an edge hogger off the ledge. And no matter how powerful a move is, it will not knock off an edge hogger who times their edge hog to exploit the invincibility frames. | ||
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:::''All this plus his heavy weight really makes a force to be reckoned with.'' | :::''All this plus his heavy weight really makes a force to be reckoned with.'' | ||
:::Any character, including Ganondorf, can be a force when played the right way. Charizard however, when compared to other characters, is just rather poor. Charizard is one of the slowest overall characters in Brawl (no matter how fast Charizard's dash is, it can't make up for being slow in about every other area), with subpar ground attacks and special moves, and with one of the worst aerial games in Brawl (in fact, I would argue that you could make a case for Charizard having the worst aerial game). Charizard does has a top tier grab, but it does not have the throws for this amazing grab to be a game changer. | :::Any character, including Ganondorf, can be a force when played the right way. Charizard however, when compared to other characters, is just rather poor. | ||
Charizard is one of the slowest overall characters in Brawl (no matter how fast Charizard's dash is, it can't make up for being slow in about every other area), with subpar ground attacks and special moves, and with one of the worst aerial games in Brawl (in fact, I would argue that you could make a case for Charizard having the worst aerial game). Charizard does has a top tier grab, but it does not have the throws for this amazing grab to be a game changer. | |||
:::Plus, Charizard comes in with the Pokemon Trainer's problems (stamina, forced character changes, free punish for the opponent or loss of opportunity when changing outside invincibility). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span | :::Plus, Charizard comes in with the Pokemon Trainer's problems (stamina, forced character changes, free punish for the opponent or loss of opportunity when changing outside invincibility). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span | ||
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::::The kick is a lot faster then you think. Remember, Charizard has speed in dashing. A successful kick can make up for any lag time. Dodging this or counter attacking is brutal against Charizard so unpredictability must come in play to ensure a hit by making loops near and far from enemy. | ::::The kick is a lot faster then you think. Remember, Charizard has speed in dashing. A successful kick can make up for any lag time. Dodging this or counter attacking is brutal against Charizard so unpredictability must come in play to ensure a hit by making loops near and far from enemy. | ||
::::The u Smash creates a limit on options and punishes mess ups. Charizard using his dash combined with a quick dodge can be a set up for his attack. It has a speedy start and given the right position will be horrible luck to the enemy. | ::::The u Smash creates a limit on options and punishes mess ups. Charizard using his dash combined with a quick dodge can be a set up for his attack. It has | ||
a speedy start and given the right position will be horrible luck to the enemy. | |||
::::Flamethrower can counter several thrown weapons ( all of Link's arsinal like Bombs) and physical moves. Since it can be aimed and the flames are considered a seprate attack each, this really does give Charizard some defense. Because of this, however I guess is why Flamethrower can't combat larger projectile. | ::::Flamethrower can counter several thrown weapons ( all of Link's arsinal like Bombs) and physical moves. Since it can be aimed and the flames are considered a seprate attack each, this really does give Charizard some defense. Because of this, however I guess is why Flamethrower can't combat larger projectile. | ||
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::::As for the part you didn't quite understand, Charizard shouldnt use his aerials in aerial combat in particular. In fact, a successful stomp is immpossible when in midair. However, if enemy is grounded it is relatively easy to stomp foes. The forward plays the same way, only a little distance can be made. Up aerial is best if foe is above you but not directly overhead, to avoid enemy's aerials. Back aerial is a resortment, because of it's limited range and power all together along with severe lag. Only if opponent is helpless, nearby and behind could one do this regularly without danger. The neutral IS a good react move ( the position and movement of attack can prevent more attacks by enemy or even knock him/her back some, despite what one may see it as "Laggy".) | ::::As for the part you didn't quite understand, Charizard shouldnt use his aerials in aerial combat in particular. In fact, a successful stomp is immpossible when in midair. However, if enemy is grounded it is relatively easy to stomp foes. The forward plays the same way, only a little distance can be made. Up aerial is best if foe is above you but not directly overhead, to avoid enemy's aerials. Back aerial is a resortment, because of it's limited range and power all together along with severe lag. Only if opponent is helpless, nearby and behind could one do this regularly without danger. The neutral IS a good react move ( the position and movement of attack can prevent more attacks by enemy or even knock him/her back some, despite what one may see it as "Laggy".) | ||
::::Gliding is pretty slow if you only remain stationary during it. Repeated decending and acending can avoid most if not all react attacks. We're comparing Charizard to SNAKE?! He's only good for a single combo! Flamethrower properly used can avoid ALL of his weapons. But going back on power, with Charizard's constant use of damage racking attacks will make these moves really useful, despite not being absurdly powerful on their own. | ::::Gliding is pretty slow if you only remain stationary during it. Repeated decending and acending can avoid most if not all react attacks. We're comparing | ||
Charizard to SNAKE?! He's only good for a single combo! Flamethrower properly used can avoid ALL of his weapons. But going back on power, with Charizard's constant use of damage racking attacks will make these moves really useful, despite not being absurdly powerful on their own. | |||
::::P. Trainer's effects hardly limit Charizard at all. Stamina is really only a beginning boost and noone is forcing you to change Pokemon. You could fight the entire match as Charizard. The two others are tag-alongs to me, especially Ivysaur who is probably the worst character in Brawl. Pokemon Change's invincibility is useless because of the lag as soon as a Pokemon comes out WITHOUT invincibility frames. How's that?![[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 09:35, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ::::P. Trainer's effects hardly limit Charizard at all. Stamina is really only a beginning boost and noone is forcing you to change Pokemon. You could fight the entire match as Charizard. The two others are tag-alongs to me, especially Ivysaur who is probably the worst character in Brawl. Pokemon Change's invincibility is useless because of the lag as soon as a Pokemon comes out WITHOUT invincibility frames. How's that?![[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 09:35, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ||
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:::::''The forward plays the same way, only a little distance can be made.'' | :::::''The forward plays the same way, only a little distance can be made.'' | ||
:::::I'm not sure what you're stating here either, that the forward aerial can't be landed on airborne opponents? Whatever it is you're saying, the fair could of been a good aerial, if not for the fact that its hitboxes, except for those right next to Charizard's mouth, are incapable of flinching the opponent. That, combined with highly punishable ending/landing lag, severely hinders its utility. | :::::I'm not sure what you're stating here either, that the forward aerial can't be landed on airborne opponents? Whatever it is you're saying, the fair could of been | ||
a good aerial, if not for the fact that its hitboxes, except for those right next to Charizard's mouth, are incapable of flinching the opponent. That, combined with highly punishable ending/landing lag, severely hinders its utility. | |||
:::::''Up aerial is best if foe is above you but not directly overhead, to avoid enemy's aerials.'' | :::::''Up aerial is best if foe is above you but not directly overhead, to avoid enemy's aerials.'' | ||
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:::::In honesty, you seem to be highly biased towards Charizard, and lack competitive experience (saying Snake is only good for one combo is a huge flag here). Have you ever been to a serious tournament before, or at least fought competent players in a competitive manner? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:52, 28 November 2011 (EST) | :::::In honesty, you seem to be highly biased towards Charizard, and lack competitive experience (saying Snake is only good for one combo is a huge flag here). Have you ever been to a serious tournament before, or at least fought competent players in a competitive manner? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:52, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ||
::::::I never fought Snake when he was in control of an actual good Snake player. Believe it or not I rarely use the other Pokemon in battle EVER and I managed 21 KOs in Cruel Brawl. However I take back most of what I said about Snake, because I had used him not a long time ago and found all of his physical attacks AMAZING. And yes I've been to serious tourneys at a Books a Million and won 2nd place in a 32 player finals ( lost to Meta-Knight player # 19 but gave a fantastic effort). Players scratched their heads in confusion of how Charizard could ever match a Meta-Knight. Only one person used Snake and lost during quarter finals by a Luigi player.My friend Lenny played Toon Link but lost to that particular player ( Meta-Knight #19). I use other characters in battle a lot but Charizard is my main, not Pokemon Trainer. I can match other Players who use the broken Meta-Knight with extreme unpredictability and change tactics that both work and don't work throughout battle at random times. Saying I have lack of competitive experience is a real big insult on me so I had to explain otherwise.[[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 16:53, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ::::::I never fought Snake when he was in control of an actual good Snake player. Believe it or not I rarely use the other Pokemon in battle EVER and I managed 21 KOs in Cruel Brawl. However I take back most of what I said about Snake, because I had used him not a long time ago and found all of his physical attacks AMAZING. And yes I've been to serious tourneys at a Books a Million and won 2nd place in a 32 player finals ( lost to Meta-Knight player # 19 but gave a fantastic effort). Players scratched their heads in confusion of how Charizard could ever match a Meta-Knight. Only one person used Snake and lost during quarter finals by a Luigi player.My friend Lenny played Toon Link but lost to that particular player ( Meta-Knight #19). I use other characters in battle a lot but Charizard is my main, not Pokemon Trainer. I can match other Players who use the broken Meta-Knight with extreme unpredictability and change tactics that | ||
both work and don't work throughout battle at random times. Saying I have lack of competitive experience is a real big insult on me so I had to explain otherwise.[[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 16:53, 28 November 2011 (EST) | |||
:::::::In my experience, nearly every player who is over zealous about their low/bottom tier mains tend to have next to no competitive experience, especially if they claim a bonafide top/high tier character is a poor character. Nice to see though that you aren't completely inexperienced. Anyway, it's fine to think your character is underrated (which can work as a good source of motivation to succeed in competitive play), but avoid getting delusional about it. Failure to recognise your character's shortcomings will hinder your progress and your success with them. The best way to prove a character is underrated though, is by succeeding with them in tournament well beyond what their tier placement would indicate (like [[Smasher:San|San]] did with Ike). No amount of theorycraft and debate can compare to consistent high tournament placings. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:49, 28 November 2011 (EST) | :::::::In my experience, nearly every player who is over zealous about their low/bottom tier mains tend to have next to no competitive experience, especially if they claim a bonafide top/high tier character is a poor character. Nice to see though that you aren't completely inexperienced. Anyway, it's fine to think your character is underrated (which can work as a good source of motivation to succeed in competitive play), but avoid getting delusional about it. Failure to recognise your character's shortcomings will hinder your progress and your success with them. The best way to prove a character is underrated though, is by succeeding with them in tournament well beyond what their tier placement would indicate (like [[Smasher:San|San]] did with Ike). No amount of theorycraft and debate can compare to consistent high tournament placings. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:49, 28 November 2011 (EST) | ||
Ya don't say...... Any tourneys near Jacksonville, Florida? I think Im gonna try raising Charizard up in ranks :3[[User:Drakon64|Drakon64]] ([[User talk:Drakon64|talk]]) 20:27, 28 November 2011 (EST) | |||