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Forum:General proposals/Archive 3: Difference between revisions
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→Stop putting in frame data/damage values/etc. in Smash Ultimate's Changes sections
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:'''Oppose'''. I don't think not having detailed change data would be any better than having it. The demo is a good way to forecast what changes will be in the final product, and we might as well keep track of them here since this is a good place to store data for competitive players. If any changes are made to the demo, we can just update them, and if someone puts in misinformation then others can correct it. [[User:Fitzpeter|Fitzpeter]] ([[User talk:Fitzpeter|talk]]) 23:01, 28 June 2018 (EDT) | :'''Oppose'''. I don't think not having detailed change data would be any better than having it. The demo is a good way to forecast what changes will be in the final product, and we might as well keep track of them here since this is a good place to store data for competitive players. If any changes are made to the demo, we can just update them, and if someone puts in misinformation then others can correct it. [[User:Fitzpeter|Fitzpeter]] ([[User talk:Fitzpeter|talk]]) 23:01, 28 June 2018 (EDT) | ||
:'''Oppose''', it seems like by that logic we shouldn't have included any technical changes in SSB4 pages until the game was done being patched. If there are accurately measurable changes present in the E3 game, then why not list them, and amend anything that was changed when the game comes out. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 03:54, 29 June 2018 (EDT) | :'''Oppose''', it seems like by that logic we shouldn't have included any technical changes in SSB4 pages until the game was done being patched. If there are accurately measurable changes present in the E3 game, then why not list them, and amend anything that was changed when the game comes out. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 03:54, 29 June 2018 (EDT) | ||
::Part of the problem is that we have a lot of people adding changes and notes based on counting frames seen in the demo videos. Which is fair enough, those videos are in 60fps, and it's how we obtain frame data for a lot of things. But, Sakurai himself said that there will likely be some major changes, and even now, we're having a few people add a lot of things based on circumstantial evidence rather than scientific methods. Remember, there are added variables with 1v1 games due to the damage being amped up - we just simply don't have enough evidence to justify adding everything we can. | |||
::Furthermore, there is no implication that we shouldn't have waited until SSB4 stopped getting patches. If we did wait for that, we'd be waiting a long time due to the fact that nobody ever said that SSB4 would no longer be patched. We thought the game was done with getting patched before they updated to include the Corrin, Bayonetta and Cloud amiibo. We should indeed stay up to date on the game as patches get released, but before the GAME is released, we're having notes added based on circumstantial evidence that is highly likely to change - and there will be a lot of change. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 04:31, 29 June 2018 (EDT) | |||
::@Fitzpeter: As seen by the Mega Man down smash example or people who played Smash 4's E3 2014 demo claiming aerials there had a lot more landing lag, it's really not, and a lot of these values being put in have questionable authenticity to them (in the frame data counting, how do the people know there weren't any frame skips in the video or that the player acted as soon as they could, and how would one deduce a hitbox's size or actual knockback changes without being able to actually test the game?). Plus the game isn't even released yet, so there should be no rush to try getting specific frame data and the like down, no one is actually going to be able to utilize it. | |||
::@Alex: By that point the game is actually released, we were actually playing the game, actually able to datamine and thoroughly test stuff to determine accurate values, and there's quite a difference between playing a demo that's 6+ months out from release where so much is liable to change and is clearly not meant to be the final product, and a balance patch that adjusts some values to some characters and are never guaranteed to actually happen. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 07:00, 29 June 2018 (EDT) | |||