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::::::So you did have characters in mind. Toon Link and Lucario. | ::::::So you did have characters in mind. Toon Link and Lucario. | ||
Check here for both: http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/ | Check here for both: http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/ | ||
Toon link is now a mid-tier, whereas he was mid-high in Brawl. That's a nerf. | |||
Lucario is now a mid-tier, whereas he too was mid-high in Brawl. That's a nerf. | Lucario is now a mid-tier, whereas he too was mid-high in Brawl. That's a nerf. | ||
Thanks for asking.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 11:59, 3 February 2016 (EST) | Thanks for asking.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 11:59, 3 February 2016 (EST) | ||
:I'm familiar with the tier list, thank you. And I'm not saying it's not a nerf at all. I'm just saying that, when it comes right down to it, there seems to be a difference between what you see as a "slight nerf" and what I see as a "slight nerf". [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:01, 3 February 2016 (EST) | :I'm familiar with the tier list, thank you. And I'm not saying it's not a nerf at all. I'm just saying that, when it comes right down to it, there seems to be a difference between what you see as a "slight nerf" and what I see as a "slight nerf". [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:01, 3 February 2016 (EST) | ||
::I'm with Aidan on this issue. Lucas for example, ''has'' improved from ''Brawl'', since he's better relative to the cast. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 12:03, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::(edit conflict) That being said, yes, if you look at just the numbers, it may not be a slight nerf. But if you do the math right and use a tier list ranking as a fraction, the numbers aren't that different. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:04, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::: Is that so? Then perhaps you disagree, not with me, but with the tier list itself. Understandable, given how controversial and sudden it came about. I'll drive my point home: '''According to the tier list''', Lucario and Toon Link were nerfed to the point of being in a different tier. Nothing slight about that.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 12:08, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::I'm not disagreeing with the tier list. Let's take Toon Link. 13/38 (Brawl) is about 0.34. 22/56 (Smash 4) is about 0.39. '''''It is a 0.05 difference'''''. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:10, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::: You are disagreeing with the tier list, which put Toon Link, formerly a mid-high tier, into the middle of the mid-tier. A nerf. You seem to be taking this from a percent/fraction perspective. Unnecessary, since smash boards was very clear as to which characters fit in where. '''You're kind of shooting the messenger at this point.'''[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 12:14, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
<small>(Reset indent) </small> If I was disagreeing with the tier list, I'd be yelling about how the Mii Brawler needs to be higher (which, in all honesty, it would need to be if customs were counted). [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:21, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:How is this not about math? It's a '''ranking''', for fuck's sake. It's "this character is ranked ___ out of 56 characters". [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:23, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:: I agree, Mii Brawler should be MUCH higher. But ultimately, you are arguing with the tier list, which I don't agree with. So if it tells me that a certain character was nerfed to a lower tier, I will change their page to coincide with the current tier list. Its my self appointed job, and inevitably, I knew I would be stepping on some people's toes in the process. And no, its not about math. Go to this page: http://smashboards.com/threads/first-official-4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list.429817/ | |||
::Look it over. Memorize if you must. According to this list, Toon Link and Lucario have been nerfed to be in the middle of the mid tier. Percentage? Ultimately irrelevant. Ranking? Just a number. The tiers, Top, High, Mid, Low, and Bottom matter. Embrace them, and you will be reborn.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 12:29, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::I ''get'' it. It's a different tier. But the numbers are still there. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:30, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::The numbers are irrelevant. Yes there, but ultimately irrelevant. '''According to the tier list''', that is. Which tier a character falls in is important.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 12:47, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::::I'm not saying that's not important. But where they fall in the list in terms of the entire cast is also relevant. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Wandering Space Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 12:48, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::::According to the tier list, barely. I'm sorry if i'm coming off as obnoxious, but i'm just following through with what the tier list says.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 12:51, 3 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::::::Could you tell ''why'' the numbers are almost completely irreverent and why we should never draw conclusions to how they are to the rest of the cast? Also, moving into an adjacent tier isn't that big of a change as this tier list has 11 different tiers. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 13:50, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::::::Where did you come from? XD[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 14:09, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
== [[SW:1RV]] == | |||
Please review the policy on the header, as [http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Ike_(SSB4)&curid=43910&diff=819918&oldid=819872 this] was in violation of it. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 16:05, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:you got me XD[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 16:11, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::There's also the fact that the discussion you opened up had two users going against you. So, while it is a small majority, right now majority rules in favor of Ike being buffed. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 16:13, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::fine by me. I'm kinda tired of enforcing the tier list anyway. Too many wiki users on here disagree with it.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 16:15, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::Well I mean, the most notable argument on the page (Toomai's) is using the tier list. Ike is ranked overall higher compared to the size of the cast. He's low-mid because there's a lot of newcomers or buffed veterans who are better than him, so relative to the rest of the cast he is worse, but relative to himself he has improved since Brawl. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 16:18, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::(edit conflict) Let me explain it one more time: it's not the tier list people are disagreeing with. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Lovely Dragon Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 16:19, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::::Relative to the rest of the cast, ''Ike is better and above average''. He is in top half instead of bottom half. It's just the awkward rankings this tier uses. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 16:23, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::::tfw getting ganged up on. Ike was put in mid tier, at the distinct "E" bracket. Look at bottom tier. Notice how they are put in 3 distinct brackets, "H" "I" and "J". The brackets are obviously there for a reason. But until the SBR says so directly, you guys will interpret it as you will. IDC. Moving on to more important things. Also YES, many wiki user here obviously disagree with the new tier list, thinking that it came out too early, or got character placements wrong. I'm not making this up.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 16:26, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
<small>(Reset indent) </small> We're not disagreeing with his placement. We're disagreeing with ''you'' and how you view his placement in terms of the rest of the cast. [[File:AidanzapunkSig1.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Lovely Dragon Warrior'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSig2.png|20px]] 16:27, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Give it a rest. He was put in "E" bracket for a reason. But nobody cares/enforces the bracket separations, so why should I waste my time. I don't care about that anymore.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 16:30, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::::: (edit conflict)I was talking to DatNuttyKid. I wouldn't be against not even using this tier list due to DLC and its ranking names. SSB4 is way more balanced than Brawl but somehow above average characters like Ike are in the lower half of mid tier while Brawl with MK below average characters are mid tier. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 16:31, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::Nightgengale, you're the only one on this side vs. three (I'm not counting myself because I honestly don't know nor care that much). You don't exactly have the right to tell us to give it a rest, particularly when you refuse to let it go as well. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 16:32, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::DaTNuttyKid you are kicking a dead horse. I don't care. They can do what they will. I've already let it go. WHY are you still here on MY talk page?[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 16:34, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::::um... cuz you told them to give it a rest? Besides, nothing's forcing you to respond to me. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 16:35, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::::Yet this is my talk page and you draw people here.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 16:38, 5 February 2016 (EST) | |||
== Ayyyy == | |||
You're back :) --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]]''': is he leaving the wiki?''' [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 22:37, 22 August 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Hi. :). I never left, I just greatly reduced how much editing I did on this wiki. I'm on quite a few other wikis. I'm so glad Palutena got a better ranking this time around. IMO she was always underrated. I even use her at local tournaments occasionally.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 22:42, 22 August 2016 (EDT)) | |||
::Still, can I talk to you for a little while? I'm not as active as I was before in the wiki because of school, so much I don't even check my watchlist. But if I can make an observation, this is the right time: on Kirby's page, I can see you say he was clearly nerfed. I cannot fully agree there, mainly because he did got very good buffs. It's just veterans have also got buffed to many degrees: Mario, Luigi, Falcon, DK, Sonic, Yoshi, Ness, SHEIK. They were noticeably buffed (including updates) compared to Kirby (who was nerfed from Brawl). I'd still like your opinion on this tho --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]] [[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 22:22, 9 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::According to the tier list, he got nerfed. I play kirby quite a bit (big kirby fan, especially tripe deluxe) but my personal feelings won't stop me from honestly seeing if a character was buffed or nerfed. Keep in mind that Rage, and Edge Trumping both do overall hurt kirby as a character. He was hands down one of the best edgeguarders in Brawl. Even in Melee, he was a good edgeguarder. His loss of range also hurts his approach options, giving him overall one of the worst approaches in the game.[[User:Nightgengale|Nightgengale]] ([[User talk:Nightgengale#top|talk]]) 22:27, 9 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
::::kk, I can definitely agree there, though I do not think his approach is one of the worst. It is indeed bad, but not one of the worst. Anyway, thx. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]] [[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 22:56, 9 October 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::::As a Kirby main, I feel Kirby has bad approach too, poor range and mobility (especially in the air) don't go well, which is why I've been playing Sonic more often, though I try to keep Kirby as my first main since it's been that way for so long. <span style="font-family:Corbel; font-size:12pt">[[User:Smash Master|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Smash''']] [[User talk:Smash Master|<span style="color:darkgreen">'''Master'''</span>]]</span></span> 23:45, 9 October 2016 (EDT) | |||