Forum:List weight changes as buffs/nerfs: Difference between revisions

Forum:List weight changes as buffs/nerfs (edit)

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Ultimate Toad

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Revision as of 18:24, December 13, 2019 (edit) Omega Tyrant (talk \| contribs) No edit summary ← Older edit		Revision as of 20:05, December 13, 2019 (edit) (undo) Ultimate Toad (talk \| contribs) No edit summary Newer edit →
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	This is all completely true, the wiki is the only place I ever seen that claims weight changes were always a neutral change, and if I was active I would have taken care of this long ago. Another important factor for why being heavier is better in Smash 4/Ultimate is the existence of rage, where characters are directly rewarded for being able to survive to higher percents with increased knockback on all their attacks. Some other benefits of being heavier include having more favorable frame disadvantage when hit for longer, being able to avoid being knocked down for longer, and prior to Ultimate having less frame disadvantage off of weight-based throws as well as more time to DI them. In Smash 4/Ultimate if you asked competitive players if they would rather have their main be made heavier or lighter, probably nearly all of them would take the weight increase (and those that wouldn't probably aren't really knowledgeable of the effect it really has on their combo vulnerability). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 17:23, December 13, 2019 (EST)		This is all completely true, the wiki is the only place I ever seen that claims weight changes were always a neutral change, and if I was active I would have taken care of this long ago. Another important factor for why being heavier is better in Smash 4/Ultimate is the existence of rage, where characters are directly rewarded for being able to survive to higher percents with increased knockback on all their attacks. Some other benefits of being heavier include having more favorable frame disadvantage when hit for longer, being able to avoid being knocked down for longer, and prior to Ultimate having less frame disadvantage off of weight-based throws as well as more time to DI them. In Smash 4/Ultimate if you asked competitive players if they would rather have their main be made heavier or lighter, probably nearly all of them would take the weight increase (and those that wouldn't probably aren't really knowledgeable of the effect it really has on their combo vulnerability). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 17:23, December 13, 2019 (EST)

			As someone who isn't that knowledgeable about technical details, I always considered weight increase a buff. Like you said, people seem to assume that weight increase increases a fighter's survivability, but increases their vulnerablility to combos, thus they assume the change is neutral. This is not 100% true. Weight is not the only factor in determining a fighter's vulnerablility to combos, but hitstun, hurtbox size, and falling speed also play a big part in that. <s>Giygas</s> err... I mean Mewtwo is a good example for hurtbox sizes determining combo vulnerablility: Because of its large hurtbox, it is more vulnerable to combos despite being lightweight because its easy to hit. For falling speed take Fox as an example; his fast falling speed makes it harder for him to escape, leaving him vulnerable to combos such as up-tilt combos and chain grabs. Hitstun's honor would go to Smash 64 and Brawl: We all know how it works. 64's hitstun lasts forever, making even lightweights vulnerable to combos. Brawl's is nonexistent (well with the abomination known as hitstun cancelling), thus heavyweights can escape no problem. As OT said rage also plays a big part in the heavier the better: heavyweights can survive much longer and get the most benefit from rage, but lightweights will often get KO'd before they can benefit from rage. So in conclusion I '''Support'''. <span style="font-family: Algerian">'''[[User:supatoad64\|<span style="color:green;">Supα</span>]][[User talk:supatoad64\|<span style="color:red;">Toαd</span><span style="color:blue;">64</span>]]'''</span> [[Image:001Toad.jpg\|20px]] 19:04, December 13, 2019 (EST)