Talk:Super Smash Bros. Ultimate/Archive 2: Difference between revisions

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{{notice|This talk page is to discuss '''the content of the article we have on the upcoming Smash game''', ''not to discuss the game itself''. Read [[SW:TALK|our talk page policy]] before commenting on here, specifically:
{{notice|This talk page is to discuss '''the content of the article we have on the upcoming Smash game''', ''not to discuss the game itself''. Read [[SW:TALK|our talk page policy]] before commenting on here, specifically:
* Do not post here about what you think of the game's content.
* Do not post here about what you think of the game's content.
* Do not post here what content you wanted to see in the next Smash game.
* Do not post here what content you wanted to see in the next Smash game.
* Do not post here about what you think of Smash for the Nintendo Switch in comparison to the other Smash games.
* Do not post here about what you think of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate in comparison to the other Smash games.


If you want to discuss Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch, take it to the [[Forum:Index|forums]]. This talk page is only for discussing the content of our article.}}
If you want to discuss Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, take it to the [[Forum:Index|forums]]. This talk page is only for discussing the content of our article.}}
==HYPE HYPE==
==HYPE HYPE==
EVERYONE INCLUDING SNAKE WOLF POKEMON TRAINER AND ICE CLIMBERS ARE BACK AND THE TITLE WILL BE "SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE"
EVERYONE INCLUDING SNAKE WOLF POKEMON TRAINER AND ICE CLIMBERS ARE BACK AND THE TITLE WILL BE "SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE"
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Shouldn't Luigi, Ness, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff have "Starter" as an availability on their page? [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]]) 00:39, 18 June 2018 (EDT)
Shouldn't Luigi, Ness, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff have "Starter" as an availability on their page? [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]]) 00:39, 18 June 2018 (EDT)
: At the moment it is unknown whether the Original 8 or Original 12 will be available from the start, so I don't think it should be stated either way until confirmation. [[Special:Contributions/75.141.57.33|75.141.57.33]] 21:31, 20 June 2018 (EDT)
::[https://twitter.com/allsourcegaming/status/1009466157567496192 Here's your confirmation]. New evidence has arisen that proves that those four will be among Ultimate's starters. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 22:17, 20 June 2018 (EDT)
:::According to GameXplain, they're not sure if it includes the four unlockable characters or not. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is a never lover boy  22:27, 20 June 2018 (EDT)
::::GameXplain aren't affiliated with the development of the game. Their thoughts and opinions are not factual or worthy of being mentioned here. [[Special:Contributions/75.141.57.33|75.141.57.33]] 10:10, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
:::That screenshot comes from the direct immediately after a portion with only the Smash 64 starters and before a part where every other smash character portrait moves in. [[User:Supersmasher2020|Supersmasher2020]] ([[User talk:Supersmasher2020|talk]]) 09:56, 22 June 2018 (EDT)


== 1-on-1 damage vs 3+ players damage ==
== 1-on-1 damage vs 3+ players damage ==
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All the evidence so far (observations, bugs, math) points to 1v1 fights having a 1.2x multiplier. This means it's not the base damage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Different 20:53, 18 June 2018 (EDT)
All the evidence so far (observations, bugs, math) points to 1v1 fights having a 1.2x multiplier. This means it's not the base damage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Different 20:53, 18 June 2018 (EDT)
Sort of bumping this now. As it's been discussed, most evidence leads to 1v1 damage being a 1.2x multiplier to 3+ damage. Does that mean it's not too early for a [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Damage_templates damage template] about it? It could get clutter-y once we add it to virtually ''every'' attack, but it's probably the easiest way around it. Also, it's probably best to use 1v1 as the base and 3+ as the hover text since I'm guessing that's what most people will search for first. [[User:Nokii|Nokii]] ([[User talk:Nokii|talk]]) 14:10, 24 June 2018 (EDT)


== Final Destination ==
== Final Destination ==
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The latest blog update about the [[Black Hole]] item features 2 new screenshots of Fox on an unknown stage which is very Final Destination-looking. Can we just assume we're looking at Final Destination or is it too early to tell? [[User:Ponyshment|Ponyshment]] ([[User talk:Ponyshment|talk]]) 09:17, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
The latest blog update about the [[Black Hole]] item features 2 new screenshots of Fox on an unknown stage which is very Final Destination-looking. Can we just assume we're looking at Final Destination or is it too early to tell? [[User:Ponyshment|Ponyshment]] ([[User talk:Ponyshment|talk]]) 09:17, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
::For anything, especially pre-release stuff, it's much more acceptable to be factual about something (X ''is'' X) than to simply assume (X ''could'' be Y), especially on observation alone. Plus, the images shown aren't exactly descriptive enough of much besides Fox's viscinity. For all we know, it could be a new ''Star Fox'' stage. :P [[User:Nokii|Nokii]] ([[User talk:Nokii|talk]]) 09:50, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
::For anything, especially pre-release stuff, it's much more acceptable to be factual about something (X ''is'' X) than to simply assume (X ''could'' be Y), especially on observation alone. Plus, the images shown aren't exactly descriptive enough of much besides Fox's viscinity. For all we know, it could be a new ''Star Fox'' stage. :P [[User:Nokii|Nokii]] ([[User talk:Nokii|talk]]) 09:50, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
:I think Bill Trinen and Nate Bihldorff confirmed that it was a placeholder in their interview with GameXplain, although I might be mistaken. In any case, I think it is obvious that it is just a placeholder. Still, it should remain as the image for right now since they did use it for their image for FD at E3 after all. [[User:Master Zach|Master Zach]] ([[User talk:Master Zach|talk]]) 11:04, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
== About the Smoke that Comes from Launched Fighters ==
I remember the Nintendo Treehouse folks and one of the announcers from the Invitational commenting that the smoke that trails a launched fighter is colored based on the player's color that launched them (I.E. If P2 launches P1, then P1 will leave a trail of blue smoke). I can't cite an exact source, but if you look at gameplay, you'll notice that that's the case. [[User:LOLDUDE|LOLDUDE]] ([[User talk:LOLDUDE|talk]]) 17:08, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
:This has been the case since SSB4. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 17:15, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
== 68 Fighters? ==
Where it mentions there are 63 total fighters and 65 if you count the 3 different pokemon from pokemon trainer, should it also mention there are 68 if you count echo fighters? [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]]) 23:47, 19 June 2018 (EDT)
There are a total of 66 characters so far: Echo Fighters count separately and Pokemon Trainer counts as one character. If you do not include Echo Fighters and count each Pokemon individually there are 65 characters. [[User:Zefer|Zefer]] ([[User talk:Zefer|talk]]) 08:15, 20 June 2018 (EDT)
:I think you're forgetting about the three different Mii Fighters, which also represent completely unique characters, or at least as much as Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Charizard do. Counting them individually bumps the number up to 68. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:46, 20 June 2018 (EDT)
::Yeah that was the same thought process I had as well. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/RaichuPichuKing|contribs]]) 00:09, 21 June 2018 (EDT)</small>
:::Don't forget to indent properly (use colons), as well as [[SW:SIGN|sign]] your comments with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 00:15, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
== New Donk City Stage Layout ==
There's a better look at the layout of the New Donk City stage in the background of Mario's profile on the website. [https://www.smashbros.com/assets_v2/img/fighter/mario/bg.jpg Here's the image]. I'd add it myself but I don't know how to. [[User:Supersmasher2020|Supersmasher2020]] ([[User talk:Supersmasher2020|talk]]) 14:25, 22 June 2018 (EDT)
:Nice catch, but the problem is that the image is red. I don't think there's anything we ''can'' do with that. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 14:42, 22 June 2018 (EDT)
:If you can find us a natural version of this image, then use [[Special:Upload]] to upload it. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 20:27, 22 June 2018 (EDT)
::Unfortunately, that's the only version that the website has. Still. some things can be discerned from it, like the fact that Pauline and The Super Mario Players (official name, not made up) aren't always present. Maybe just while Jump Up, Super Star is playing?[[User:Supersmasher2020|Supersmasher2020]] ([[User talk:Supersmasher2020|talk]]) 00:16, 23 June 2018 (EDT)
:::Or it could be a touring stage. [[User:KirbysCrazyAppetite|Kirby's Crazy Appetite]] ~ [[File:KirbysCrazyAppetiteSig.png|50x20px]] 05:16, 23 June 2018 (EDT)
::::Or they added them to the stage background after they took this screenshot and finished the layout for the Ultimate site. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 06:20, 23 June 2018 (EDT)
== New page for "Power Hit" effect? ==
I'm considering making a new page that specifically lists all the attacks that play the new dramatic "power hit effect" (where there's a blue overlay and the screen slows down). Would that be a good idea? Seeing how this effect does not play for just any attack in general (it seems locked to specifically game-changing attacks or moments like a shield break, and not just any normal fully charged smash attack), it seems useful to have a page with info on it. [[User:Archrelico|Archrelico]] ([[User talk:Archrelico|talk]]) 05:31, 24 June 2018 (EDT)
:I don't think so, at least not yet. There's no real good name for it and we don't have any hard information aside from "sometimes plays for certain attacks". Maybe once the game's out and we can better figure exactly how it works, but even then it might be better suited as nothing more than a yes/no on hitbox pages (like the ability for hitboxes to only hit ground/air opponents). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brass 10:55, 24 June 2018 (EDT)
::It has been dubbed Special zoom and Finish zoom by Sakurai. I suspected this before, but it's been confirmed only strong special moves seem to cause the blue slowdown effect. The red slowdown finisher seems to be triggered by any move. However... pretty sure I have seen it not occur when it should have (projectiles maybe? unsure). Of course, the opposite is confirmed to be true- that is, it can occur when the move does not actually kill (DI probably). Other quirks like effect without zoom can occur too. I think these effects should have their own article since it does not seem to be a hitbox property, it is more of an event with specific visuals, SFX, and properties. At the very least it needs more than a bullet point. [[User: RobSir_zx|<span style="color:orange">Rob</span>]][[User talk:RobSir_zx|<span style="color:blue">'''Sir '''</span>]][[File:RobSir-sig.jpg|16px]] [[Special:Contributions/RobSir zx|<span style="color:red">zx</span>]] 10:20, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
== Splatoon 2 ==
The Confirmed Elements part of the article is misleading and still hasn't been fixed. Not a single aspect from the Inklings is specifically from Splatoon 2, all of their alts are from promotional images. The only Splatoon 2 thing in SMash Ultimate is Lil Judd in the Moray Towers stage. [[Special:Contributions/98.116.134.108|98.116.134.108]] 13:34, 26 June 2018 (EDT)
== " 63 if the three different Pokémon of the Pokémon Trainer are treated as individual characters" ==
If we decide to say this, I think it's also relevant to say "65 if the three different Pokemon of the Pokemon Trainer and three different Mii Fighters are treated as individual characters." The Mii fighters play completely different and have different final smashes. [[Special:Contributions/98.116.134.108|98.116.134.108]] 19:33, 30 June 2018 (EDT)
== Stages that Still Need Images ==
Here are some spots to take images for the stages that still need images. First of all, Pilotwings appears in Captain Falcon's part of the "Everyone is Here" trailer. Second of all, Mario Circuit from Wii7U appears in Yoshi's video in the Super Smash Bros Ultimate website. Third of all, Corneria appears in Fox's video. Flat Zone 2/X appears at the beginning of the overview of Mr. Game and Watch in the official trailer, and the Pictochat stage appears when Sukapon is shown in the official trailer. And you might think that Yoshi's Island Brawl only appears in Yoshi's background on the website, but it also appears in the picture of the launch star item in the blog. Finally, you could use SSBUWebsitePacmanSeries.jpg for Pac-Land, but it might be too wide.
<br>
[[Special:Contributions/24.6.217.5|24.6.217.5]] 18:08, 4 July 2018 (PDT)
==New Newcomers Speculations==
How about Saki Amamiya. He has his ponytail, he was now playable in Super Smash Bros Ultimate instead of Assist Trophy. And what about Kachua from Sin and Punishment, she was playable too.
Pyra is the female Blade and make her playable. And her Final Smash, she can assists Rex to perform her finisher to strike down her opponents.
<br>
--[[User:Dharakjoo|Dharakjoo]] ([[User talk:Dharakjoo|talk]]) 09:30, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
:The wiki isn't for speculation, we only report things that have actually been confirmed. [[User:AmoongussForLife|<span style="color:green">AmoongussForLife</span>]] [[File:AmoongussForLife's_signature.png]][[User_talk:AmoongussForLife|<span style="color:purple">Talk</span>]] 09:42, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
:[[SmashWiki is not speculative]]. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 09:45, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
::Oh okay.i sorry about it. --[[User:Dharakjoo|Dharakjoo]] ([[User talk:Dharakjoo|talk]]) 20:20, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
== Jab lock ==
Hey all, what about the jab locking? GimR said in his video it's two hits now but you don't get forced to stand up is that correct? If yes then what even is jab lock? I thought the important thing about it was getting forced to regular get up. -- [[Special:Contributions/5.145.128.4|5.145.128.4]] 13:14, 14 July 2018 (EDT)
:[[Lock|Ahem.]] [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 19:55, 14 July 2018 (EDT)
::Thank you, didn't know it was also called lock and is mentioned like that in the article already. Great work :-) -- [[Special:Contributions/5.145.128.4|5.145.128.4]] 13:44, 15 July 2018 (EDT)
== HP Juice is a item ==
HP Juice from ARMS is a item in Smash Ultimate, please add it. Proof is in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT-DmdaLH_Q but you can't go back in the stream yet. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:NickKrau|NickKrau]] ([[User talk:NickKrau|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NickKrau|contribs]]) 23:22, 15 July 2018 (EDT)</small>
:First off, sign your comments with 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). Second, I'm pretty sure that's just the [[Healing Field]], which we already have a page on. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 23:28, 15 July 2018 (EDT)
== Demo at events ==
So Nintendo is really pushing the Ultimate demo out to a lot of events worldwide. There is a line under the development section, currently stating: ''The game would later be playable at certain tournaments and events including Rage 2018 Summer, Next Generation World Hobby Fair ’18 Summer, CEO 2018, and Jump Victory Carnival 2018.'' I think we should either get rid of the examples and simplify the sentence... or we should actually create a table with country locations and dates. Personally, I feel as though there will be plenty more events to come with the demo, and it could be a sizable list if 100% complete. [[User: RobSir_zx|<span style="color:orange">Rob</span>]][[User talk:RobSir_zx|<span style="color:blue">'''Sir '''</span>]][[File:RobSir-sig.jpg|16px]] [[Special:Contributions/RobSir zx|<span style="color:red">zx</span>]] 11:00, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
:I say we make it as concise as possible. We don't want to have to change it numerous times. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the College-Bound Rurouni'''</span>]] 11:20, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
== Banana Gun ==
The Banana Gun item is part of the wrong universe, should be Smash Bros, not Mario. --[[User:Moonboy65|Moonboy65]] ([[User talk:Moonboy65|talk]]) 00:59, 23 July 2018 (EDT)
:Done. [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]]) 01:04, 23 July 2018 (EDT)
::Also the Rage mechanic has smoke effects on the percentage gauge, which was not there before. Should be added to the Aesthetic changes. --[[User:Moonboy65|Moonboy65]] ([[User talk:Moonboy65|talk]]) 14:06, 23 July 2018 (EDT)
== "Roster the size of the original N64 roster?" ==
So I hate to bring this up, but people keep saying not to give the 4 unlockable characters, Luigi, JP, CF, and Ness a status of unlockable or starter in ultimate until we know for sure, but we are not even sure about the status of all the other fighters either since the trailer did not specifically state which fighters are available from the start and just said a roster the size of the original N64 roster... [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]]) 16:23, 26 July 2018 (EDT)
:The trailer did not, but Masahiro Sakurai clarified this in a Famitsu column you can access [https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/20/smash-is-special-part-1-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-557/ here]. To quote: "I’ve decided to limit the number of fighters initially available to the original Nintendo 64 roster". [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:07, 26 July 2018 (EDT)
Oh ok thanks! Although since Sakurai stated that the fighters are going to be the ones "initially available" to the original roster doesn't that mean that Luigi, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, and Ness should be stated as Unlockable? [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]]) 17:15, 26 July 2018 (EDT)
:I think it is still too vague to say definitely whether "original Nintendo 64 roster" includes Luigi, Falcon, Ness, and Puff or not. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:19, 26 July 2018 (EDT)
Yeah I think it may still be vague too since the trailer included the other four anyways. Thanks. [[User:RaichuPichuKing|RaichuPichuKing]] ([[User talk:RaichuPichuKing|talk]]) 17:28, 26 July 2018 (EDT)
== Number of veterans ==
Since Awesomelink didn't respond on his talk page, I figured I'd just open it up to the whole community to discuss. Then maybe we can finally stop changing this.
The page currently says that "[a]ll 61 characters (65 if counting the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon and the three different types of Mii Fighters) from all previous Smash Bros. games return as playable characters." Previously, it has stated "63 characters (65 if counting the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon)", keeping the three different types of Mii Fighters combined. I think we should change it back to this, as I said on Awesomelink's talk page:
"They share a page, but on [https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/about/index.html the total count of fighters], they are counted separately (there's a total of 68 fighters; the count on the about page states that it counts Pokemon Trainer as one fighter, so subtract 2 = 66. No room for the Mii Fighters to be merged.) Furthermore, it doesn't really matter what the site does anyway, since the rest of SmashWiki counts them separately at all times."
Unlike the Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon, the Mii Fighters are given fully individual boxes on both Smash 4 and this page. The official source considers them different enough to automatically be listed separately. There is zero reason for us to not automatically separate them on this page, too. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 20:06, 3 August 2018 (EDT)
== Ritcher and Simon are coming real-time! ==
THEY ARE COMFIRMED!
Also Luigi got tonsa scared before returning to life <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Play Dash|Play Dash]] ([[User talk:Play Dash|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Play Dash|contribs]]) 14:04, August 8, 2018 (EDT)</small>
:This is improper use of the Talk page (see [[SW:TALK]]). Also remember to sign your posts with 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). — [[File:NokiiSig.png|link=]] [[User:Nokii|<span style="color:#8090d8;">'''Nokii''']]</span>'''''<sup>ε</sup>''''' (''[[User_talk:Nokii|T]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nokii|C]]·[[Special:Log/Nokii|L]]) 10:21, 8 August 2018 (EDT)
Also comfirmed are Chrom, another one
AND K. ROOL!--[[User:Play Dash|RIDLEY ALERT! RIDLEY ALERT!!!]] ([[User talk:Play Dash|talk]]) 10:28, 8 August 2018 (EDT)
== About the game's ESRB rating ==
At the end of the Trivia section it says "This is the third Super Smash Bros. game to have an ESRB rating of T, after Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros. Brawl." However, Ultimate's rating is not yet confirmed, as it is still RP. You may say, "But at the beginning of the 8/8/18 direct, it says 'RP-T'!" This is because it shows a small snippet of footage from Melee, which was indeed rated T. I would suggest removing this piece of trivia until the rating is confirmed. [[User:Ohmahjah|Ohmahjah]] ([[User talk:Ohmahjah|talk]]) 13:06, 9 August 2018 (EDT)
Actually, I think "RP-T" means it is currently RP, yet the most mature the rating could get is Teen.
== Screenshots and videos differences between pre-august direct and post-august direct  ==
Does anyone know the differences between these videos and screenshots with stuff we seen already? --[[User:Andreepika11233|Andreepika11233]] ([[User talk:Andreepika11233|talk]]) 19:15, 9 August 2018 (EDT)