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Talk:Marth (SSB4): Difference between revisions
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Do we know if he does? [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 08:43, 14 September 2014 (EDT) | Do we know if he does? [[User:RoyboyX|<font color="red">'''Roy'''</font><font color="gray">'''boy'''</font><font color="darkred">'''X'''</font>]] [[User talk:RoyboyX|''<span style="color:brown;">'''Talk'''</span>'']] 08:43, 14 September 2014 (EDT) | ||
:Well depends. In ''Fire Emblem Awakening'', he speaks English but I'm not sure if Fire Emblem is canon to ''Smash''. Hope this answered your question! [[User:RatedMforMario]]. [[User talk:RatedMforMario|Let's-a-go]]!~ 18:57, 12 February 2018 (EST) | |||
::This is an old discussion, please do not reply to super old discussions without a good reason. <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 19:06, 12 February 2018 (EST) | |||
== Marth's Custom Moveset == | == Marth's Custom Moveset == | ||
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::I suppose so. But we don't know if the sword actually has a longer model. Still the sentence I wrote perfectly describes the situation.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 00:10, 22 January 2015 (EST) | ::I suppose so. But we don't know if the sword actually has a longer model. Still the sentence I wrote perfectly describes the situation.--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 00:10, 22 January 2015 (EST) | ||
::The new units of distance are much smaller than in Brawl or Melee. So while the raw number may be bigger, it actually means Marth has less range because of the smaller units. [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 13:14, 29 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::↑I'm agreeing with ganonmew ↑ [[User:INoMed|INoMed]], <span style="color:orange">King of</span> <span style="color:red">Demons</span> 13:21, 29 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::Thank you. [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 20:28, 29 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Up Special Glitch == | == Up Special Glitch == | ||
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::::How is it insufficient to point out Marth's nerfs and their factual results (e.g. he can't reliably follow up out of throws), have an entire changelog of color-coded buffs and nerfs, and let the reader decide for themselves how major or minor that is? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:15, 10 August 2015 (EDT) | ::::How is it insufficient to point out Marth's nerfs and their factual results (e.g. he can't reliably follow up out of throws), have an entire changelog of color-coded buffs and nerfs, and let the reader decide for themselves how major or minor that is? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:15, 10 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
Edit summary is self explanatory. | Edit summary is self explanatory. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:45.37.25.25|45.37.25.25]] ([[User talk:45.37.25.25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/45.37.25.25|contribs]]) 18:25 10 August 2015 (EDT)</small> | ||
:Could you whip up a draft quickly to show your plan for the section? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 18:28, 10 August 2015 (EDT) | :Could you whip up a draft quickly to show your plan for the section? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 18:28, 10 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
:It looks okay, aside from maybe one or two small things. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 18:35, 10 August 2015 (EDT) | :It looks okay, aside from maybe one or two small things. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 18:35, 10 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
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I agree SK, this is ridiculous and is getting frustrating. I for one am very fatigued at this. If Miles does not want my insight on a poor character's pros and cons and being as neutral as possible while not sacrificing information, his loss. [[Special:Contributions/45.37.25.25|45.37.25.25]] 21:55, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | I agree SK, this is ridiculous and is getting frustrating. I for one am very fatigued at this. If Miles does not want my insight on a poor character's pros and cons and being as neutral as possible while not sacrificing information, his loss. [[Special:Contributions/45.37.25.25|45.37.25.25]] 21:55, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
:I am not looking for any one user's "insight". I am aiming for a clear and concise presentation of the character's attributes and changes which maintains a neutral tone. Any further changes to these sections need to adhere to this. I am tired of heavily opinionated fluff clogging these pages and will not simply sit back and allow it to get slipped back in repeatedly. Doubly so in this case, since I am trying to use this article as a "good example" of how to discuss a character in a neutral way. It's hard to present a case for improvement when you have no end-goal to point to. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:03, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | :I am not looking for any one user's "insight". I am aiming for a clear and concise presentation of the character's attributes and changes which maintains a neutral tone. Any further changes to these sections need to adhere to this. I am tired of heavily opinionated fluff clogging these pages and will not simply sit back and allow it to get slipped back in repeatedly. Doubly so in this case, since I am trying to use this article as a "good example" of how to discuss a character in a neutral way. It's hard to present a case for improvement when you have no end-goal to point to. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:03, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
The problem is that you don't understand the character and I do. -Brian --[[Special:Contributions/70.214.2.18|70.214.2.18]] 22:17, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:I've gone out of my way to explain what opinionated language should be removed and why I think it's overly subjective or inflammatory. If "because I say so" is the only justification you can offer for your edits, I don't think I have much reason to take them seriously. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:31, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:...So you protected the page? wow. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 22:35, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::[[SW:PROTECT]] "Do not protect a page you are involved in an edit dispute over. Admin powers are not editor privileges - admins should only use their powers to help assist the positive growth of the project." Protection needs removed. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 22:42, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::I am assisting the positive growth of the project. I am stating that edits to this page will require '''consensus'''. Given that I have seen no action on the part of another admin to resolve the edit dispute through protection, I attempting to moderate a discussion that I myself am part of. It is an imperfect situation to be sure, but I have no intention of removing the protection until the situation is resolved. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:59, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::And hey look, '''consensus so far is that you are wrong'''. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Aurum 23:01, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::That does not change the fact that you have violated a policy. [[User:Serpent_King|<span style="color:#008833; text-shadow:-1px -1px #00bb77;">'''Serpent King'''</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent_King|(<span style="color: blue;">talk</span>)]] 23:02, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::@Miles: Hey, idiot! Maybe no other admin attempted to resolve the dispute through protection because protection wasn't necessary? No, you just wanted to lock the changes to your preferred revision while you decided to become a brick wall while literally everyone else started explaining why your definition of a "neutral tone" does not fit the facts. if you think that "decisively nerfed" is not a fact then I'm not sure what the fuck is wrong with you. Decisively just means indisputable, and he is indisputably nerfed, so how on Earth is that "opinionated"? Stop abusing your power and start figuring out what the fuck you're talking about. '''''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=navy>D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o<font color=purple>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]''''' 23:15, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::::Your first comment in several months could have been said without the personal attacks. Watch it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Superlative 23:19, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::::I only present facts. '''''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=navy>D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o<font color=purple>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]''''' 23:22, 13 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::::::First off, DoctorPain99, the personal attacks are a bit much, like Toomai said. You do present ''some'' facts, but that's quite a bit of personal attacks. Secondly, Miles, It honestly surprised me that you protected the page. I ain't gonna lie, the current words used in the article sound non-biased, but you outright broke a policy, [[SW:PROTECT]], specifically. You're an admin, and a respected one at that. I never saw a page protection coming, seeing as it breaks a policy. I understand your point, and it's a valid one, but you shouldn't have to protect a page to get it across. [[User:LittleMacmain97|LittleMacmain97]], the [[Little Mac|World Circuit]] is mine! ([[User talk:LittleMacmain97|Talk]]) 20:18, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Quick question. == | |||
How does extra hitstun on Dancing Blade make it harder to connect? Shouldn't it be that it is easier to connect because of that because the opponent is in hitstun for longer? [[User:Ganonmew|Ganonmew]] ([[User talk:Ganonmew|talk]]) 16:45, 20 September 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Change in units == | |||
Whaddya mean by 'change in units of distance'? - [[User:Drilly Dilly|Drilly Dilly]] ([[User talk:Drilly Dilly|talk]]) 18:54, 19 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:Units in distance appear to be much, much smaller than Brawl, so a bigger raw number is irrelevant if the units are so much smaller, effectively making him have much less range. [[User:Ganonmew|<span style="color: black;">'''Ganonmew'''</span>]], [[User talk:Ganonmew|<span style="color: orange;">'''The Evil Clone'''</span>]] 17:47, 22 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Yusuke Kozaki == | |||
This is just a suggestion, but is it worth mentioning that the Fire Emblem characters's realistically done eyes is supposed to reflect Kozaki's work on the series or is it just plain unnecessary? [[User:Marioisawesome118|<font color="red">Mario</font>]][[User talk:Marioisawesome118|<font color="green">is</font>]]<span style="font-family":KristenITC font size:10pt>[[Special:Contributions/Marioisawesome118|<font color="indigo">awesome</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Marioisawesome118|<font color="iceblue">118</font>]] [[File:Marioisawesome118.png|19px]] 21:53, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Yeah, seems unnecessary. [[User:Penro|'''Penro''']] [[User talk:Penro|...that's all.]] [[File:PenroDarkPitHead.png|19px]] [[File:PenroZSSHead.png|19px]] 22:38, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
== Trivia Worthy? == | |||
Now that I think of it, is it worth mentioning Marth is the only returning Fire Emblem to not receive a muscular physique? [[User:Marioisawesome118|<font color="red">Mario</font>]][[User talk:Marioisawesome118|<font color="green">is</font>]]<span style="font-family":KristenITC font size:10pt>[[Special:Contributions/Marioisawesome118|<font color="indigo">awesome</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Marioisawesome118|<font color="iceblue">118</font>]] [[File:Marioisawesome118.png|19px]] 18:34, 6 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Not really, no. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">King</span>]]'''</span> 19:05, 6 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
::And why is that? [[User:Marioisawesome118|<font color="red">Mario</font>]][[User talk:Marioisawesome118|<font color="green">is</font>]]<span style="font-family":KristenITC font size:10pt>[[Special:Contributions/Marioisawesome118|<font color="indigo">awesome</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Marioisawesome118|<font color="iceblue">118</font>]] [[File:Marioisawesome118.png|19px]] 17:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::It just does not seem noteworthy or interesting. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">King</span>]]'''</span> 17:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
::::Plus, there's only three returning Fire Emblem characters. 1/3 isn't exactly an indicator that Marth is an extreme outlier. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 18:19, 7 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Tier List== | |||
I'm glad Marth is higher than Zero suit Samus. I"m also glad that Lucina and Corrin are higher than toon Link.[[User:MarthandLucina|MarthandLucina]] ([[User talk:MarthandLucina|talk]]) 01:23, 3 July 2017 (EDT).<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:MarthandLucina|MarthandLucina]] ([[User talk:MarthandLucina|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MarthandLucina|contribs]]) 01:20, 3 July 2017</small> | |||
:[[SW:TALK]]. -- <font size="3"><font face="Vivaldi">''Her Majesty, [[User:Queen Junko|Queen]] [[User_talk:Queen Junko|Junko]]'',</font></font> 01:21, 3 July 2017 (EDT) | |||
== This is getting ridiculous == | |||
Alright, enough edit warring has been going on here. I really am fighting to get [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Marth_(SSB4)&curid=39190&diff=1023193&oldid=1023180 this removed], because while this is true, it's a VERY moot point, given that the drop in tier is very small, and Marth has a very strong representation in tournaments and still remains top tier. Yes, he's been in three games now. Yes, this is his lowest tier placing to date. But the difference is so small, that the point is incredibly moot. I really do not want this here because of that. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 23:24, 6 February 2018 (EST) | |||
:Hey, why don't we all let it be and let's call it a day. We say that for most other characters, so why not Marth? We're not saying he's bad or not viable, we're just saying it's his worst placement in the series. Let's calm down here, I don't think the edit does much harm at all. [[User:Skuchi037|Skuchi037]] ([[User talk:Skuchi037|talk]]) 23:28, 6 February 2018 (EST) | |||
::100% agree with you Vulpine. Marth in general is a character who has had very good results across all three games and his tier placement in SSB4 is highly debated and these kinds of statements are misleading and make the wiki look less professional. Edits that simply reiterate small details like this which are already covered by the other sentences that discuss his tier drop from previous titles are simply "busy edits" and I think are only made so as to have impunity on userspace editing. Had it been a sentence such as this in regards to Sheik's Brawl placement where she ''is'' noticeably lower on the tier then it is noteworthy. Regardless of whether these edits are harmless, they lower the quality of the wiki. [[User:Nergal06|Nergal06]] ([[User talk:Nergal06|talk]]) 00:14, 7 February 2018 (EST) | |||
I'm sorta with Black Vulpine on this one in that wording how good a character is compared to his/her other appearances is awkward but I would still consider his lower placement noticeable. Regardless, his tier placements in all three of his appearances are almost proportionally similar so it's kinda a tough call to say if it's truly his "worst" placement. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 00:47, 7 February 2018 (EST) | |||
Well it technically is, but you may be right about how it is too minor to be truly notable, but I think it still needs acknowledgement. [[User:Iron Gladiator|<span style="color: red;">'''Iron Reggie,'''</span>]] [[User talk:Iron Gladiator|<span style="color: cyan;">'''Master of Memes'''</span>]] 01:46, 7 February 2018 (EST) | |||
I've noticed you generally tend to be very hostile towards tier ranking comparisons on articles, and I don't know why. It's useful for users to know how historically fighters rank compared to other games with regards to tier lists, and while it may be a small difference in this case, it is still undeniably his lowest placement in the series, and so it is notable. ''[[User:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex Parpotta'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: red;">'''flying lobster!'''</span>]]'' 03:15, 7 February 2018 (EST) | |||
Are you talking to me or Vulpine? [[User:Iron Gladiator|<span style="color: red;">'''Iron Reggie,'''</span>]] [[User talk:Iron Gladiator|<span style="color: cyan;">'''Master of Memes'''</span>]] 00:14, 9 February 2018 (EST) | |||
:He was talking to me. Please follow talk page policy by leading your comments with a colon (:) to show you’re replying to a comment. The first reply should be preceded by a single colon, the second reply should be preceded by two colons, and so on. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 00:54, 9 February 2018 (EST) | |||
::Um, it's actually a colon... ''[[User:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex Parpotta'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Alex Parpotta|<span style="color: red;">'''flying lobster!'''</span>]]'' 09:23, 9 February 2018 (EST) | |||