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Talk:Arsène: Difference between revisions
→This is actually kinda ridiculous.
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Personally, It really depends if the update changes the name for Arsene to Arsené in update 8.0.0. So really we will have to wait til June. [[User:S3AHAWK|<span style="font-family: Arial;color:Blue;">S3AHAWK</span>]][[File:S3AHAWK_Signature_icon_1.png|20px]][[File:S3AHAWK_signature_icon_2.png|20px]] ([[User talk:S3AHAWK|Talk]]) 20:57, April 25, 2020 (EDT) | Personally, It really depends if the update changes the name for Arsene to Arsené in update 8.0.0. So really we will have to wait til June. [[User:S3AHAWK|<span style="font-family: Arial;color:Blue;">S3AHAWK</span>]][[File:S3AHAWK_Signature_icon_1.png|20px]][[File:S3AHAWK_signature_icon_2.png|20px]] ([[User talk:S3AHAWK|Talk]]) 20:57, April 25, 2020 (EDT) | ||
But until that happens, we should just say that Arsène is just a one-off. And Arsene is still how it’s spelled in Ultimate anyhow. | But until that happens, we should just say that Arsène is just a one-off. And Arsene is still how it’s spelled in Ultimate anyhow. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:73.166.103.61|73.166.103.61]] ([[User talk:73.166.103.61|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/73.166.103.61|contribs]]) 16:00, May 4, 2020</small> | ||
:While I'd normally say we go with whatever name is used in Smash Bros, the accented "e" is still a minor thing so if the community prefers it as "é" then I don't believe we need to move it back. If neither is prioritized however then the one that should be used is whichever is used in Smash Bros. [[Image:001Toad.jpg|20px]] <span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #18F">'''[[User:OmegaToad64|<span style="font-size:12pt"><font color="blue">OmegαToαd64</font></span>]] • [[User talk:OmegaToad64|<font color="springgreen">the Best Kαrter</font>]]'''</span> 08:08, May 4, 2020 (EDT) | :While I'd normally say we go with whatever name is used in Smash Bros, the accented "e" is still a minor thing so if the community prefers it as "é" then I don't believe we need to move it back. If neither is prioritized however then the one that should be used is whichever is used in Smash Bros. [[Image:001Toad.jpg|20px]] <span style="text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #18F">'''[[User:OmegaToad64|<span style="font-size:12pt"><font color="blue">OmegαToαd64</font></span>]] • [[User talk:OmegaToad64|<font color="springgreen">the Best Kαrter</font>]]'''</span> 08:08, May 4, 2020 (EDT) | ||
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I personally don't see much issue with the diacritic, as P5R was technically fixing a spelling error: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars%C3%A8ne_Lupin his namesake is named "Arsène Lupin"]. I'd argue that Smash's misspelling is a coincidence at best; for all we know, the developers could have just saw P5's content and used that. Updating the name alongside P5R, which likely signals that the spelling could be updated at any point, even in a later Smash title, makes sense. I don't see why there should be some weird policy where P5 content uses the correct spelling and Smash uses the wrong spelling, that's just adding natural inconsistency and will only contribute to additional confusion. It's not like these iterations of Arsène are separate entities, he's just has his name spelled wrong. I also don't see why it should be moved back only to get discussed again, this should be more of a "posthumous" discussion for a final verdict. For those who oppose use of accents across the wiki, all I have to say is that [[Pokémon (universe)]] would like a word, as would every single instance where Pokémon is referred to, even in Smash's promotional material. The claim that Smash doesn't use diacritics is blatantly false. If anything, updating the name makes sense for future-proofing; in the case Joker returns in a later game and likely comes with an updated spelling, this discussion will just open up again. Finally, I really don't see why what can be seen as simplification of his name so to not have to use a unicode combination on a keyboard is a valid reason to call "Arsene" a case of "community consensus"...'''keep the page as it is.''' --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 23:45, March 17, 2021 (EDT) | I personally don't see much issue with the diacritic, as P5R was technically fixing a spelling error: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars%C3%A8ne_Lupin his namesake is named "Arsène Lupin"]. I'd argue that Smash's misspelling is a coincidence at best; for all we know, the developers could have just saw P5's content and used that. Updating the name alongside P5R, which likely signals that the spelling could be updated at any point, even in a later Smash title, makes sense. I don't see why there should be some weird policy where P5 content uses the correct spelling and Smash uses the wrong spelling, that's just adding natural inconsistency and will only contribute to additional confusion. It's not like these iterations of Arsène are separate entities, he's just has his name spelled wrong. I also don't see why it should be moved back only to get discussed again, this should be more of a "posthumous" discussion for a final verdict. For those who oppose use of accents across the wiki, all I have to say is that [[Pokémon (universe)]] would like a word, as would every single instance where Pokémon is referred to, even in Smash's promotional material. The claim that Smash doesn't use diacritics is blatantly false. If anything, updating the name makes sense for future-proofing; in the case Joker returns in a later game and likely comes with an updated spelling, this discussion will just open up again. Finally, I really don't see why what can be seen as simplification of his name so to not have to use a unicode combination on a keyboard is a valid reason to call "Arsene" a case of "community consensus"...'''keep the page as it is.''' --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 23:45, March 17, 2021 (EDT) | ||
:Just to clarify I did not claim that there is a community consensus over the spelling, I brought it up specifically to explain how appealing to one (for either side of the argument) is, in my opinion, disingenuous, and get it out of the way. Nor I did claim that diacritics are not used in ''Smash'' in general, just that they are not used for the spelling of Arsene/Arsène. | |||
:As for future proofing, while I get the sentiment behind it, for all we know Joker may never appear in ''Smash'' again, therefore future proofing for nothing. It's very much a case of putting the carriage before the horse, the way I see it. "Arsene" is a blatant formatting error carried over from the original source material, but generally most gaming wikis will keep such spelling errors until they are corrected in later material, and often continuing to use them specifically when referring to the older games. The argument here is if original game source material post-dating the current Smash game counts as updated sources; my opinion is that it does not, basing it on precedents like the aforementioned Devil Car, and cases like the Giant/Big Goomba where we use either form to refer to their Brawl and Smash 4 appearances, respectively. Then again, those are admittedly more significant that the simple use of a diacritic. | |||
:Anyway, what makes more sense is, in case it is decided to move this back, to future-proof the consensus so that if Joker appears in a future ''Smash'' game the spelling can be updated without another discussion. | |||
--[[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 05:26, March 18, 2021 (EDT) | |||
'''Keep it'''. It's clear Arsène was meant to have the accent marks from the beginning (with Arsène Lupin's name also having one), but didn't have one in the vanilla Persona 5 as that game didn't have accent marks. Also, if I remember correctly, there was another Persona in that game that had an accent mark added in Royal (though the only one I can remember is Célestine, who was added in Royal). [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer</span>]] ([[User talk:Awesomelink234|talk]]) 14:45, April 8, 2021 (EDT) | |||
:'''Keep the accent'''. As explained above, he is named after Arsène Lupin and didn't have the accent in vanilla Persona 5 because the font didn't support accent marks. Smash probably just used the vanilla Persona 5 formatting because that's how it was when Joker was released and never bothered to change it as his name only appears in tips. Strikers also uses the accent, so it was always meant to be "Arsène" and not "Arsene". [[User:Diddy Kongstar|Diddy Kongstar]] ([[User talk:Diddy Kongstar|talk]]) 16:51, August 5, 2021 (EDT) | |||