Talk:Alternate costume (SSBU)/Archive 5: Difference between revisions

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 == Mega Man's Orange Costume ==
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 == Ganondorf's White Alt? ==
-Yo! I'm pretty sure Ganon's white alt is actually based on the ghost Darmani from Majora's Mask (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/5/52/Darmani.png/revision/latest?cb=20110105235415) based on the white/blue coloration and purple jewelry. {{unsigned|Meeper12346|15:43, June 26, 2019 (EDT)}}
+Yo! I'm pretty sure Ganon's white alt is actually based on the ghost Darmani from Majora's Mask (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/5/52/Darmani.png/revision/latest?cb=20110105235415) based on the white/blue coloration and purple jewelry. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Meeper12346|Meeper12346]] ([[User talk:Meeper12346|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Meeper12346|contribs]]) 15:43, June 26, 2019 (EDT)</small>
 :I can see it, but at the same time, Darmani is definitely more white than purple and blue - Ganondorf is distinctly all three, instead of slightly colored white. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 18:18, June 26, 2019 (EDT)
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 Additionally, the source given for Peach's black recolor seems entirely baseless. There's no indication that black peach tea has anything to do with the recolor. May I suggest instead that her black recolor is based off of [https://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/f/f1/SMP_-_King_Bob-omb.png/625px-SMP_-_King_Bob-omb.png King Bob-omb], a fellow royal from the Mario series? [[User:Pacack|Pacack]] ([[User talk:Pacack|talk]]) 22:45, July 28, 2019 (EDT)
 :LOL. I don't know who added the black peach tea thing, but there's no reason for that. But even King Bob-omb is skeptical, since he's more of a bluish hue than black. But I don't think the gold is particularly based on anything. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 22:53, July 28, 2019 (EDT)
+::Honestly, King Bob-omb has a fairly inconsistent color scheme through the series. However, when the color was added in Smash 4, the most recent appearance of King Bob-omb [https://www.mariowiki.com/images/6/64/MP9_Big_Bob-omb_Bust.png from Mario Party 9] was distinctly black. Additionally, his most well-known appearances in [https://www.mariowiki.com/images/c/ce/BigBob-ombSM64.png Super Mario 64] and [https://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/75/BigBob-Omb.PNG Super Mario 64 DS] portrayed him as black. As such, I don't think the reference is much of a stretch.
+::I also don't think it's too farfetched to say that, if every other color of hers is a reference to something, the gold color likely is also. Granted, I think there are a number of possibilities for what that reference may be, but that can be solved be adding something along the lines of "it may also be a reference to coins or power stars, both common collectables in the Mario series." I'm personally of the opinion that the golden mushroom is the most likely primary reference, since a mushroom with a crown makes for such a natural reference to the Crown Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom. Especially because her crown is used as her symbol on a regular basis. Regardless, it seems better to include ''something'' there rather than leaving the reference area blank. [[User:Pacack|Pacack]] ([[User talk:Pacack|talk]]) 13:19, July 30, 2019 (EDT)
+::: King Bob-Omb is a huge stretch since Peach already had [https://www.mariowiki.com/images/a/ac/DrWily.jpg a similar outfit] to this in the official German comics, predating King Bob-Omb by two years. --[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 13:34, September 30, 2019 (EDT)
+== Hero's alternate outfits ==
+In the demo video yesterday, Sakurai said the 5th to 8th outfits are based off the heroes of other DQ installments. I think this means Outfit #5 is based off the Hero from DQX (and not Angelo) and #8 is the Hero from DQII (and not Terry). - Inkrid [[Special:Contributions/195.212.11.97|195.212.11.97]] 06:51, July 31, 2019 (EDT)
+:What he said was "characters", not "heroes". And even so, Terry's lighter blue matches the alt better than DQII's Hero's dark blue does, and the Hero from DQX lacks the white hair seen in Luminary's alt (and DQX's Hero's outfit is decidedly more orange than red). [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 21:20, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+== The Sections for Kirby, Marth, Palutena, R.O.B., Simon, Villager, and Zelda ==
+Hi, for this page, the alternate costumes displayed for Kirby, Marth, Palutena, R.O.B., Simon, Villager, and Zelda don't match up with the rest of the characters. Instead of a group of alternate costumes with a white background, the images for these characters instead has some of the game menu within it. I don't think I am allowed to change that myself, would someone who can change it so that it matches with the other characters? Thanks. --[[User:Thenonexistent|Thenonexistent]] ([[User talk:Thenonexistent|talk]]) 21:09, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+:I'm not sure what you're talking about, as everything seems fine to me; can you provide a screenshot (through imgur or some other site like that)? [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 21:12, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+::It's possible you need to clear your cache; try hard-refreshing (CTRL+F5). ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 21:15, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+::Unfortunately, I don't have an account for those sites. I've definitely cleared by cache several times, I ended up uploading some images, you'll have to delete them after looking at them. --[[User:Thenonexistent|Thenonexistent]] ([[User talk:Thenonexistent|talk]]) 21:19, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+:::Not sure why it's doing this for me. --[[User:Thenonexistent|Thenonexistent]] ([[User talk:Thenonexistent|talk]]) 21:20, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+::::Yea, that's definitely an older version of the file. Try, for the sake of argument, clearing your cache right now, and opening the page. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 21:28, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+:::::So I did what you said, and it just refuses to update the images. When I look at the page through a mobile device it's fine, but for some reason it doesn't display the proper image on my laptop even after a hard-refresh. I guess I'll just have to deal with it. You can delete those images I uploaded. --[[User:Thenonexistent|Thenonexistent]] ([[User talk:Thenonexistent|talk]]) 21:34, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+::::::Have you also tried manually clearing the cache? (CTRL+SHIFT+DEL) ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 22:09, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+:::::::Yes, I have done that several times. It just refuses to change. I'm not gonna bother losing sleep over this. --[[User:Thenonexistent|Thenonexistent]] ([[User talk:Thenonexistent|talk]]) 22:15, August 1, 2019 (EDT)
+== Banjo's yellow color ==
+Kazooie's Yellow with Brown resembles Terry, the terrydactyle boss of Terrydactyle Land
+== Kirby's Orange color ==
+While the page mentions that it resembles Suplex Kirby and the Orange spray paint, it also resembles Kirby's orange palette when he has any Copy ability (other than Ice and Freeze) in Kirby's Adventure. [[User:PuffyPuffyPuffPuff|Puffiest Puff]] ([[User talk:PuffyPuffyPuffPuff|talk]]) 17:08, September 12, 2019 (EDT)
+:I think that's a stretch, since that color scheme is more tan than orange. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 17:35, September 12, 2019 (EDT)
+== Other possibilities for Banjo's alts ==
+Banjo's yellow alt comes to me as more of a general reference to Gobi's Valley, the desert level in Banjo-Kazooie - I agree that Banjo's yellow fur is most likely based on Squawkmatch, but I personally think Kazooie could also be based on Gobi.
+Additionally, I believe Banjo's blue alt is moreso based on the two bosses from Banjo-Tooie, with Banjo being based on Chilly Willy and Kazooie being based on Chili Billi. --[[User:Meeper12346|Meeper12346]] ([[User talk:Meeper12346|talk]]) 18:45, September 15th, 2019 (EDT)
+== Few more possible costume origins ==
+)Banjo's Black alt could also resemble his appearence in Nuts & Bolts, where he had darker fur.
+)Captain Falcon's cyan costume resembles Blood Falcon's [http://mutecity.org/wiki/File:GX_Blood_Falcon_Blue.png blue alternate color] in F-Zero GX.
+)Dark Samus's green color could be a reference to [[Metroid_(creature)|Metroids]]. After all, she is a hybrid of these species.
+)Lucas's blue alt resembles Ninten and Ness's clothes (Minus light yellow hair). Cyan shoes give closer resemblance to former.
+)Mario's black color resembles [https://www.mariowiki.com/File:Hammer_Mario_Walking_SMB3.gif Hammer Mario's sprites in SMB3].
+)I think Marth also had Yellow outfit in Fire Emblem OVA. Concidering his Japanese voice actor, it may or may not be a reference.
+)We can also note, that Wario Biker Green alt had it's Jacket's color changed from blue to green since Smash For 3DS/Wii U. It's the one reason it has resemblance to his player 4 color in Mega Party Game$   [[User:MrLlort|MrLlort]] ([[User talk:MrLlort|talk]]) 11:49, September 21, 2019 (EDT).
+::1) Bottles is a closer match
+::2) Looks close, but it seems to match Rick Wheeler a bit more.
+::3) Not quite, Metroids are green and pink.
+::4) The yellow doesn't match, since it's actually orange.
+::5) We already have confirmation that it's based on Foreman Spike, according to the original game's website.
+::6) Marth never wore such an outfit in the OVA. He just stuck with his blue outfit. --[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 13:28, September 30, 2019 (EDT)
+:::I'm not sure if this is implying that alts can have only one origin written or not. Because it's obviously not a thing.
+:::1)I agree. But we can still write that it also resembles his N&B appearence (Example: Ike's Yellow color- "Resembles Greil, Ike's father. The costume and green headband is also reminiscent of Ike's appearence in the Lord class.")
+:::2)I can't see that at all, sorry.
+:::3)Maybe
+:::4)Doesn't really change much (At least to the point, where you can't see any resemblance). Not all colors have to be super consistent to what we write down on page. King Dedede's pink and blue costumes don't change his skin to Purple and Grey to match his colors in Kirby 64 Multiplayer mode. Little Mac's White alt has his colors inversed in comparison to his NES sprite. Meta Knight's Navy color has red eyes, but nobody disagrees with it's curent origin. There are probably few more examples.
+:::5)I'm well aware of that. But it had Brown/Tan color back then. Now that it was changed to Black/White since Melee, it barerly resembles it's original source material(Unless this is Foreman Spike from Wrecking Crew 98 we are talking about). Additionaly, we can add information on alts even if it's origins were already confirmed (Samus's pink color is the best example: "Based on the Gravity Suit's in-game sprite from Super Metroid, but more closely resembles the color scheme of the Varia Suit of the original Metroid when missiles are selected").
+:::6)I checked OVA once again, due to my memory being short on this one. And yes, he has yellow outfit with black(ish) jeans and orange lines to match before getting classic blue one. It's first seen at the beggining of the 1-st episode 3 and half minutes in. It's not his regular outfit, sure, but it's close match. [[User:MrLlort|MrLlort]] ([[User talk:MrLlort|talk]]) 14:59, October 3, 2019 (EDT)
+::::1) Banjo's fur in the alt is clearly black. If it were a darker brown (which is the coloring in N&B), then a case could be made, but since it isn't, I find it hard to believe it's a reference to N&B.
+::::2) I see a closer resemblance to the Blood Falcon alt than Rick Wheeler, though that one's a bit ''too'' blue in comparison to the lighter coloring of Falcon's alt.
+::::3) The green alt lacks any pink, so it's likely not a reference to the Metroids.
+::::4) I fail to see any similarity to either Ninten or Ness. And it does make a difference if you're the only one who sees it, because if no one else does, then it's not a likely comparison.
+::::6) You mean [https://youtu.be/6L01O7D2Skk?t=205 this]?
+::::[[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''the Spooky Rurouni'''</span>]] 19:30, October 3, 2019 (EDT)
+:::::The question is whether or not should darker/lighter costumes be accepted. I guess we do? We have King K. Rool's Brown and Charizard's yellow, that feel way too dark, but that's the case of skins, not costumes. We also have Dark Pit's Brown, that really mathes Magnus in everything, but the ammount of red color on clothes. As for Marth, yes, it's this, but I slowly start doubting any relation to OVA. [[User:MrLlort|MrLlort]] ([[User talk:MrLlort|talk]]) 15:03, October 13, 2019 (EDT)
+::::::I would concur with [[User:MrLlort|MrLlort's]] point that we ought to include plausible potential inspirations even if we have confirmation of a costume's origins. This page has a clearly established convention of listing multiple references when multiple are plausible (2 for blue Bowser, 3 for white DK, and 5 for red Joker.) Therefore, the conversation ought to center on a reference's plausibility, not on whether we have a reference already or not.
+:::::: As for specific examples...
+::::::1.) The Nuts and Bolts reference seems implausible.
+::::::2.) I also see the resemblance to the Blood Falcon alt. It's not perfect, but I would advocate for including it, especially since we don't have any other plausible inspiration.
+::::::3.) Agreed that Samus' green alt doesn't resemble Metroids.
+::::::4.) Lucas' blue alt definitely doesn't look like Ninten or Ness.
+::::::5.) I agree heavily that we ought to use Samus' pink costume as a template for this costume. It's clear that this costume has changed post-64, and the current incarnation of the alt more closely resembles the Hammer Mario sprite now than it does Foreman Spike. I recommend the wording, "Originally based on Foreman Spike from Wrecking Crew, though the palette has become more monochromatic since its debut in the original Super Smash Bros. It currently resembles Hammer Mario's in-game sprite from Super Mario Bros. 3."
+::::::6.) While I would ordinarily be skeptical of using the OVA as an inspiration, the combination of yellow with black pants makes this a compelling reference. It honestly seems to be a more solid visual reference than comparing it to Roy's gold costume. --[[User:Pacack|Pacack]] ([[User talk:Pacack|talk]]) 11:57, October 29, 2019 (EDT)
+== K. Rool's white costume and Super Kong ==
+Currently, K. Rool's white costume is the only one that doesn't have a note saying it resembles something from the ''Donkey Kong'' series. Perhaps we could say that it resembles {{s|mariowiki|Super Kong}}? The facts are these:
+*K. Rool's scales are white, similar to Super Kong's fur.
+*K. Rool's cape is blue with yellow highlights, just like Super Kong's tie.
+*Compared to K. Rool's default golden armor, his chestplate and wristbands have a more natural flesh-colored hue, similar to Super Kong's skin on his chest and hands.
+*The only piece that doesn't really match up to Super Kong at all is the golden crown, although this is present in all of K. Rool's costumes.
+Any objections to saying that K. Rool's white costume resembles Super Kong? --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 21:07, October 11, 2019 (EDT)
+: I do: It better resembles any of the Kackles or the concept art (aka Mr. X) better than it does Super Kong. Besides, those aren't flesh-tones, they're copper. Flesh-tones would be closer to a cream-color while these are a closer match for a copper color, seeing as these same colored metallic hues are also present on the blue color.[[User:Tailikku|Tailikku]] ([[User talk:Tailikku|talk]]) 15:46, October 18, 2019 (EDT)
+::You're right that it's copper and not flesh, but you seem to have misinterpreted my argument (and I apologize if my wording wasn't clear): while it's obviously not flesh, it appears closer to flesh when compared with the clearly-metallic hue of the default golden armor. When factoring in the overall color composition (white body, copper chest/wrists, blue/yellow neck accessory), that's where I see resemblance to Super Kong in this color scheme. It's not perfect, but it's fairly close.
+::Honestly, I can't say I see a matching color composition in Kackle or Mr. X. The Kackle's bones are beige-tinted rather than a clean white (that's certainly a difference just as clearly distinct as your "copper isn't flesh" argument, but it takes up the whole body instead of just a few parts), and while one of the Kackles does have a blue scarf, said scarf doesn't have yellow patterns like Super Kong's tie; the yellow is instead on the belt buckle. Despite having similar white skin, Mr. X is predominantly black due to his large coat and hat taking up much of his color composition, while blue is relegated to a small medal on his chest. Some of the colors in K. Rool's white alt are present in Kackle and Mr. X, sure, but the overall composition and arrangement don't match up nearly as well as Super Kong. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 09:53, October 19, 2019 (EDT)
+:::I support this interpretation. - [[User:Mega Mario Man|Mega Mario Man]] ([[User talk:Mega Mario Man|talk]]) 22:07, October 22, 2019 (EDT)
+:I think it's a stretch, since K. Rool wasn't in ''Returns'' and a white/blue color scheme is common enough that it's not exclusive to Super DK in particular. As mentioned, the armor is more of a bronze or copper than flesh tone, so it doesn't really bring that to mind either. I don't think the costume is based on anything in particular; not every costume is automatically a reference. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 22:13, October 22, 2019 (EDT)
+::It's obviously not based on Super Kong since they have nothing in common. What I would recommend putting is that it complements DK's white costume, just like we say about Zelda, Fox, Falco, and Wolf's dark costumes. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 23:03, October 22, 2019 (EDT)
+:::I think they simply wanted him to resemble an albino or leucistic crocodilian. [[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 02:29, October 23, 2019 (EDT)
+::Is it any more of a stretch than saying Dark Samus's gold costume resembles Golden Torzio despite neither character being in the same game? Or saying Wario's cyan costume resembles Mario in  ''Mario Bros.''? I think that, as long as it's within the same series and there's a reasonably similar color scheme and composition, it's not that big of a stretch.
+::While I agree that many costumes are most likely not based on anything, I do think that's why the language and phrasing is important. Saying K. Rool's white alt is "based on Super Kong" would be a fabrication, and we have no proof of it being true. But, saying it "resembles Super Kong" is not incorrect, given the evidence that I've laid out above. And while I also agree that blue/white is a common enough color scheme for it to be coincidental, it's the yellow patterns on the blue neck accessory that make it much more unique.
+::But, it's not that big of a deal in the end. If the wiki's consensus is against having it on the page, then I see no reason to argue further. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 19:27, October 23, 2019 (EDT)
+My apologies for reigniting this conversation, but I would also agree that the white color scheme resembles the Super Kong enough to warrant a mention. It's not uncommon for us to mention several potential inspirations for a costume (see: 2 for blue Bowser, 3 for white DK, and 5 for red Joker.) We shouldn't suddenly start shying away from convention now. --[[User:Pacack|Pacack]] ([[User talk:Pacack|talk]]) 11:26, October 29, 2019 (EDT)
+== Donkey Kong's Black Costume ==
+I was looking at the [[Alternate_costume_(SSB)#Donkey_Kong|alternate costume page for SSB64]], and I noticed that Donkey Kong's black costume had a plausible reference included that is inexplicably absent on this page. The costume closely resembles [https://www.mariowiki.com/File:DKGBDonkeyKongSprite.png DK's sprite] in Donkey Kong for the Game Boy.
+I would recommend the following wording: "Donkey Kong's fur and skin resemble his in-game sprite from Donkey Kong for Game Boy, and the tie is reminiscent of his appearance in Donkey Kong Country's Two-Player Contest Mode. Also resembles a gorilla."
+Alternatively, I would be fine with removing the line that the recolor resembles a gorilla entirely, as we have solid in-game references without looking to the real world for inspiration. --[[User:Pacack|Pacack]] ([[User talk:Pacack|talk]]) 12:16, October 29, 2019 (EDT)