Talk:Tier list/Archive 8: Difference between revisions

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-{{notice|We understand that tiers are a point of contention among members of the Smash community. However, this page discusses the tier lists that the Smash Back Room have posted. These are accepted by almost every high level player, and as such are important and notable content to this wiki. Discussion on this talk page should be limited to the content of the page, not to debate on the ordering of tiers, '''we report the tier lists, we don't decide them'''. If you want to discuss the tier lists, go to these forums; ([[Forum:Tier List Discussion (Smash 4)|forum for Smash 4]], [[Forum:Tier List Discussion (Melee)|forum for Melee]]). If you want to argue tier placements, take it to Smashboards, not here.
-Additionally, '''do not use this page to argue about the existence of tiers'''. If you firmly believe tiers do not exist and are intent on changing the Wiki's stance about it, go see the argument we have on it on [[User:Semicolon/Treatise on the Existence of Tiers|this page here]], and thoroughly refute the treatise on its talk page, do not argue it here.}}
-<big>'''Simplified version of the above:  <span style="color:green">Don't edit this page unless you have something to contribute about ''what'' the SBR said and the content of this article. We don't care if you disagree with them or tiers in general.</span></big>'''
 ==Master Hand==
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 ==SSB4 tier list==
-The tier for ssb4 was made on smashboards. http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-version-1-0-finished-time-for-a-break.379736/ <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Wintermelon43|Wintermelon43]] ([[User talk:Wintermelon43|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wintermelon43|contribs]]) 16:23, March 26, 2015‎</small>
+The tier for ssb4 was made on smashboards. http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-version-1-0-finished-time-for-a-break.379736/ <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Wintermelon43|Wintermelon43]] ([[User talk:Wintermelon43|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wintermelon43|contribs]]) 16:23, March 26, 2015</small>
 :[[Template talk:SSB4Tiers|We've already discussed this]]. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:25, 26 March 2015 (EDT)
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 ==NEW MELEE TIERS LIST==
-This tiers list was made over the course of 12 days with the help of redditors /u/scrubjr /u/scrubers /u/ReinDance /u/A_Waskawy_Wabit /u/Pokepen /u/Thebestaround555 /u/goatlink /u/my-name-is- /u/seanbeanskiller /u/spectremagic /u/upvotegod98 /u/vexoskeleton [http://i.imgur.com/X8cbPJD.png Here it is.] '''Text version:''' Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik | Puff, Captain Falcon, Peach | Ice Climbers, Samus, Pikachu, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Yoshi | Ganondorf, Mario, Young Link, Link, Donkey Kong | Mr. Game & Watch, Roy, Ness, Pichu, Mewtwo, Zelda, Kirby, Bowser. {{Unsigned|Scrubjr|01:22, 26 October 2015 (EDT)}}
+This tiers list was made over the course of 12 days with the help of redditors /u/scrubjr /u/scrubers /u/ReinDance /u/A_Waskawy_Wabit /u/Pokepen /u/Thebestaround555 /u/goatlink /u/my-name-is- /u/seanbeanskiller /u/spectremagic /u/upvotegod98 /u/vexoskeleton [http://i.imgur.com/X8cbPJD.png Here it is.] '''Text version:''' Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik | Puff, Captain Falcon, Peach | Ice Climbers, Samus, Pikachu, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Yoshi | Ganondorf, Mario, Young Link, Link, Donkey Kong | Mr. Game & Watch, Roy, Ness, Pichu, Mewtwo, Zelda, Kirby, Bowser. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Scrubjr|Scrubjr]] ([[User talk:Scrubjr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scrubjr|contribs]]) 01:22, 26 October 2015 (EDT)</small>
 :We report tier lists from one source only: [[SBR]] [[User:Serpent King|<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px; color:rgb(220, 85, 0); text-shadow:0px 0px 3px DarkGray;">Serpent<span style="font-size:12pt;>∞</span>King</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent King|(<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px;">talk</span>)]] 01:22, 26 October 2015 (EDT)
-::But Smash Backroom was closed. {{unsigned|Scrubjr|01:28, 26 October 2015 (EDT)}}
+::But Smash Backroom was closed. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Scrubjr|Scrubjr]] ([[User talk:Scrubjr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scrubjr|contribs]]) 01:28, 26 October 2015 (EDT)</small>
 :::Right. We still are not taking tier lists from outside sources though. Just the way it is for the time being. Also, please remember to sign your comments. [[User:Serpent King|<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px; color:rgb(220, 85, 0); text-shadow:0px 0px 3px DarkGray;">Serpent<span style="font-size:12pt;>∞</span>King</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent King|(<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px;">talk</span>)]] 01:28, 26 October 2015 (EDT)
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 ::Cool.
 ::Now that that's out of the way, how come there is an opinion piece being advertised here? That looks more like an editorial. That's why I think it should be in its own "See also" section, because it's still useful. Some pages on Wikipedia also have useful essays in the main space but aren't being treated like fact, but rather as a guide to what one should believe. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 19:21, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
+:::Frankly, it's not an opinion piece at this point. The overwhelming bulk of evidence supports tiers as existing, and as the essay covers the existence of tiers, it makes the most sense for it to be linked under that specific section.
+:::--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>,  21:50, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
 :::Tier lists exist, and are valid for the scope that they represent. An argument that supports it would only help back up the fact that they exist.
 :::"But random user on the internet, tiers aren't legit!"
 :::'''Yes they are'''. Hillary lost, get over it. [[Special:Contributions/74.82.35.43|74.82.35.43]] 21:44, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
+::::I understand you mean well, but can you please leave politics out of it? Or at the very least, avoid being so obtuse?
+::::--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>,  21:50, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
+:::::One thing that I think is odd is that this is pretty much the only page on the wiki that links to a userspace page (the treatise, obviously). That's always irked me and it comes off as a bit unprofessional and inconsistent. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">HUAH!</span>]]</b> 22:31, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
+::::See, that's the thing. Game imbalances in mechanics and movesets in games like this one and Street Fighter causes some characters to be perceivably better than others. That's what tiers are. But while the work "Treatise on the Existence of Tiers" deals with a subject that virtually all of us see as true, it is so highly opinionated (its condescending tone attests to this) it doesn't belong in the mainspace. The fact that the work is almost entirely made up of counterarguments to anti-tiers makes it an opinion. The section on this page "Existence of tiers" is already pretty persuasive but that's a lot more neutral than having something as unprofessional as having an essay in the mainspace.
+::::Besides, if we were to move it to the "See also" section it's probably not going to damage its visibility or credibility. Or at least I notice what's in these sections. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 00:40, 28 June 2017 (EDT)
+To answer the original question: A "FAQs" section doesn't fit in an encyclopedia, and it would just duplicate the information already on the page. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Breegull 06:25, 28 June 2017 (EDT)
+:Yeah, this has been addressed. Now it's more whether the essay belongs in its own section given it's more subjective. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 00:41, 29 June 2017 (EDT)
+== SSB4 tier list renders ==
+Can we please use the official character renders instead of the ugly, hard-to-read, unofficial screenshot portraits? [[User:MassiveheroSoccerguy|MassiveheroSoccerguy]] ([[User talk:MassiveheroSoccerguy|talk]]) 09:58, 10 August 2017 (EDT)