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Until we have any concrete, confirmed examples, it's blatant speculation to claim that Gen V and VI Pokemon will appear. That's like saying Yoshi is expected to appear based on the fact that he has in all three prior games. Is it likely? Probably. But is it confirmed enough that we should be saying so in the mainspace? Not yet. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 12:42, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | Until we have any concrete, confirmed examples, it's blatant speculation to claim that Gen V and VI Pokemon will appear. That's like saying Yoshi is expected to appear based on the fact that he has in all three prior games. Is it likely? Probably. But is it confirmed enough that we should be saying so in the mainspace? Not yet. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 12:42, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | ||
:It isn't really speculatory when something is, in essence, guaranteed to happen. It would be speculation to say that Gen V/VI Pokémon will have a playable appearance (which makes | :It isn't really speculatory when something is, in essence, guaranteed to happen. It would be speculation to say that Gen V/VI Pokémon will have a playable appearance (which makes this a different scenario than your example with Yoshi) or that they will be Pokéball Pokémon, but not just that they will appear in some form, which nobody would really claim they won't. That brings me to my next point: the article isn't stating that "Gen V/VI Pokémon will appear" or that they're "likely to appear". It says they are ''expected'' to appear, which is a fact, because practically every person who plays Smash is "expecting" them to appear, and in that way, it isn't really speculatory, but reporting on what the community expects will happen. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 12:55, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | ||
::It's not "guaranteed" in the context of discussing an unreleased game unless you've got some sort of official statement that guarantees it. There's really no way around that. We should never use what the "community expects" as a basis for a claim like that. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:00, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | ::It's not "guaranteed" in the context of discussing an unreleased game unless you've got some sort of official statement that guarantees it. There's really no way around that. We should never use what the "community expects" as a basis for a claim like that. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:00, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | ||
:::It's guaranteed. Pokémon is arguably Nintendo's largest franchise. How the hell would new Pokémon not be included? It's not even really a question in any way. I believe this is a case of following the spirit of the law, rather than the letter. In most cases, statements like this one are bad, yes, but in this case, there isn't a chance that the information presented will turn out false, and even if it somehow does, all the wiki has stated is that they were expected to appear, not that they would. There may be no official source yet, but again, that's a technicality; there's not any reason why we should abide by it in this case. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 13:12, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | :::It's guaranteed. Pokémon is arguably Nintendo's largest franchise. How the hell would new Pokémon not be included? It's not even really a question in any way. I believe this is a case of following the spirit of the law, rather than the letter. In most cases, statements like this one are bad, yes, but in this case, there isn't a chance that the information presented will turn out false, and even if it somehow does, all the wiki has stated is that they were expected to appear, not that they would. There may be no official source yet, but again, that's a technicality; there's not any reason why we should abide by it in this case. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 13:12, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | ||
::::Not necessarily, we could just get Meowth and the return of Mewtwo. They're not Gen V/VI. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 13:17, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
:::::''It would be speculation to say that Gen V/VI Pokémon will have a playable appearance (which makes this a different scenario than your example with Yoshi) or that they will be Pokéball Pokémon, but not just that they will appear in some form, which nobody would really claim they won't.'' Actually read what I post before responding. I never claimed that Gen V/VI mons would be playable, just that they would make '''some appearance'''. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 13:19, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::::::It's speculation either way, though. You're making an exception on the idea that "making an appearance" has less of a requirement for evidence than playability/Poke Ball appearances. It doesn't. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 13:35, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
:::::::Yes it does, because making an appearance is a more general than trying to say they're going to be in a specific role. And why do we need "evidence" from an official source to say that people expect Gen V/VI Pokémon to be in the game in some capacity? It's more than a reasonable expectation, and that expectation exists, there's no denying it. Trying to argue that this is speculation is unnecessarily pedantic. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 14:10, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::::::::We are not in the business of explaining fan predictions. Mainspace articles like this need to be factual and report on what is known, not what some fans "expect". [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:19, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
:::::::::We are not "explaining a fan prediction"; that's a strawman. All it says is that "Pokémon from Gens V and VI are expected to make an appearance", which is true, it is expected, you can't refute that and it's also a very reasonable expectation and they're essentially guaranteed to appear, and you can't really refute that either. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 14:32, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::::::::::Calling an argument you dislike a strawman doesn't make it one. You were the one claiming "practically every person who plays Smash is "expecting" them to appear", but now you say it isn't a question of a fan prediction? You say that official confirmation would be needed for anything except this? You're sidestepping the point: you're making a faulty exception for a case where it is not fitting with the standards for appropriate reporting on an unreleased game. If it's about an unreleased game, we need confirmation, period. It's a simple case of us needing to wait until we know for sure one way or the other. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:50, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
:::::::::::I've lost interest in continuing this discussion because you're failing to do anything beyond repeat the same points over and over, but I have to clarify what I meant when I said you strawmanned. The issue is not whether or not it's a fan prediction; it inarguably is. However, just because we mention one quite obvious "prediction" does not somehow make it true that we're all of a sudden in the business of "explaining fan predictions". We're not even explaining; we're stating, and this is a single isolated case. | |||
:::::::::::Also, a couple users on IRC wanted me to mention the fact that Sakurai did mention he was considering Mewtwo's new form for a playable appearance. I didn't think that qualified as a good enough example and figured you already knew about it, but there you go. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 15:01, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::::::::::::Complete with links= http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/34700 <span style="font-family:Sketch1">[[User:MegiBeelzebub|<span style="color:green">Megi</span>]][[User talk:MegiBeelzebub|<span style="color:black">Beelzebub</span>]]</span> [[File:MegiBeelzebub.png|19px]] 15:04, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
<small>indent reset</small> That information would be fine if explained on the Mewtwo page with a citation. Regardless, though, since Dr. Pain and I seem to be stuck in a disagreement, could other folks please weigh in? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 20:27, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
:If it says that they are expected, that doesn't mean it's saying that they are definitely going to appear, and this reflects a view amongst the community, so I think it's acceptable. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 20:32, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::Mentioning that they're expected just seems a bit pointless in the first place. I don't really care whether it stays or goes, I just don't see why it was added in the first place. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 20:42, 7 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
:I'm of the opinion that there's no need to bring up things like this when there isn't very much that is officially confirmed. No doubt sooner or later we're going to see a Pokeball or a stage background appear, and then we can have it in the article. Otherwise we are speculating, especially when it comes to Gen 6 matters. [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:Anon.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 13:37, 8 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
::I strongly disagree with the "especially when it comes to Gen 6 matters". You're telling me that it's arguable that they won't at least make an appearance as a trophy? Gen VI is going to be out for almost a year before Smash 4 at least. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 17:42, 8 August 2013 (EDT) | |||
==Dedenne== | |||
Why do you think he isn't a Pokéball Pokémon? It's not a playable character, it's on the Punch Out stage, so it can't be a stage element. What else can it be? [[Special:Contributions/84.26.240.80|84.26.240.80]] 14:00, 14 March 2014 (EDT) | |||
== Pokemon Trainer = Gen 3, not Gen 1 == | |||
He uses his FRLG appearance. I think he's Gen 3. (There's a trivia note about it, so) [[User:Nutta Butta|Nutta Butta]] ([[User talk:Nutta Butta|talk]]) 20:59, 13 July 2014 (EDT) | |||
:"Most playable Pokémon...". If you're referring to that trivia line, then you've got your answer. PT is not a Pokémon. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 21:18, 13 July 2014 (EDT) | |||
== Trophies in the universe pages; minimizing unnecessary text == | |||
Personally, I think having embedded links for individual trophies is a misuse of space. It makes the article bigger than it needs to be. All of the trophies of characters and items in Smash are already elaborated on above. All of the "series related" trophies are just cameos. If people are curious on who these characters and objects are, I left a "Main article" link at the top of the Trophies section for that exact reason. These links don't add anything to the article. [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 19:15, 27 July 2018 (EDT) | |||
== Red and Blue == | |||
Should it’s first game be called by it’s American or Japanese name? [[Special:Contributions/174.55.24.64|174.55.24.64]] 19:50, September 26, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:We use the English names for everything, so leave it be. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 21:12, September 26, 2019 (EDT) | |||
== First game == | |||
What’s so different between Red and Green and Red and Blue other then name change, date change (that’s like saying Earthbound Beginnings and Mother 1 are different games because of the name change) and that Blastoise represents Blue and Venusaur represents Green? [[Special:Contributions/174.55.24.64|174.55.24.64]] 22:15, November 18, 2019 (EST) | |||
:It's kinda complicated to explain, but the reason why ''Red and Green'' aren considered separate games than ''Red and Blue'' is because the latter is a mix of all the three Japanese Gen 1 games (excluding ''Yellow'', of course). It has the Pokémon selection of ''Red and Green'', but the graphics and layout changes of Japanese ''Blue''. [[User:SuperSmashTurtles|SuperSmashTurtles]] ([[User talk:SuperSmashTurtles|talk]]) 22:29, November 18, 2019 (EST) | |||
::To add on, the Blue version released in Japan is the Red and Blue versions released outside of Japan. Red and Green are the original Generation 1 games. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 22:37, November 18, 2019 (EST) | |||
:::Also EarthBound Beginnings and Mother are considered somewhat different because several maps have a very different layout, all towns have different names, many enemy sprites were changed, and there are a lot more changes too. Also run button. <span style="font-family: Algerian">'''[[User:supatoad64|<span style="color:green;">Supα</span>]][[User talk:supatoad64|<span style="color:red;">Toαd</span><span style="color:blue;">64</span>]]'''</span> [[Image:001Toad.jpg|20px]] 23:04, November 18, 2019 (EST) | |||
:Simply put, the Japanese ''Red'' and ''Green'' came first, then the Japanese ''Blue'' came out with bug fixes and additions (think like ''Crystal'' compared to ''Gold'' and ''Silver''), which then was split into the international ''Red'' and ''Blue''. For clarity's sake, they're referred to as separate games even though they're very similar. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 23:12, November 18, 2019 (EST) | |||
==Generation receptions== | |||
Is it really worth having it on this page, when it's not even remotely related to Smash and barely reflective of the community to begin with? - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 14:28, January 25, 2020 (EST) | |||