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Talk:Mewtwo (SSB4)/Archive 1: Difference between revisions
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==Design== | ==Design== | ||
Should we note that Mewtwo keeps its more angular eyes and "horn-less" chestplate from its design in ''Pokémon: The First Movie''? These are features that most game sprites/models of Mewtwo don't have, and even Mewtwo in ''Melee'' had the "horn" in its chestplate.[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] ([[User talk:Darthrai|talk]]) 00:53, 25 October 2014 (EDT) | Should we note that Mewtwo keeps its more angular eyes and "horn-less" chestplate from its design in ''Pokémon: The First Movie''? These are features that most game sprites/models of Mewtwo don't have, and even Mewtwo in ''Melee'' had the "horn" in its chestplate.[[User:Darthrai|Darthrai]] ([[User talk:Darthrai|talk]]) 00:53, 25 October 2014 (EDT) | ||
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The changes section goes on at length about how he's been nerfed but from my experience playing him and on unoffical tier lists he's certainly higher than he was in Melee. Am I missing something here or is it talking purely in relation to how he was in Melee and all of it's perfect perfectness. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 19:47, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | The changes section goes on at length about how he's been nerfed but from my experience playing him and on unoffical tier lists he's certainly higher than he was in Melee. Am I missing something here or is it talking purely in relation to how he was in Melee and all of it's perfect perfectness. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 19:47, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
:Mewtwo did receive good buffs, but everyone knows it got nerfed from Melee (I added the part about its sheer lack of customs) and it is traditionally ranked in the pits at the bottom of tier lists (except for the untrustable EventHubs). Mewtwo is much worse than Melee. (Stray hits KO at 50%) | :Mewtwo did receive good buffs, but everyone knows it got nerfed from Melee (I added the part about its sheer lack of customs) and it is traditionally ranked in the pits at the bottom of tier lists (except for the untrustable EventHubs). Mewtwo is much worse than Melee. (Stray hits KO at 50%) <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:45.37.25.25|45.37.25.25]] ([[User talk:45.37.25.25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/45.37.25.25|contribs]]) 7:57 August 9 2015</small> | ||
::You can sign your comments with four tildas (~s). But on-topic, Mewtwo seems to be considered more D tier than F tier, from what I can put together. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 20:18, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | ::You can sign your comments with four tildas (~s). But on-topic, Mewtwo seems to be considered more D tier than F tier, from what I can put together. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 20:18, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
:::At first I thought Mewtwo was good, but as metagame evolves I noticed that there is some problems Mewtwo has. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVsKOzM7iY I saw ZeRo's video about why Mewtwo is bad] and he believed that Mewtwo is a low tier character because of Mewtwo's flaws and its nerf. Its weight and hurtbox is now a big problem along with its abilities. When you try to work hard with Mewtwo and end up at KO percent or get KO'ed earlier, you now feel like Mewtwo is a higher risk low rewarded character. [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 20:45, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | :::At first I thought Mewtwo was good, but as metagame evolves I noticed that there is some problems Mewtwo has. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVsKOzM7iY I saw ZeRo's video about why Mewtwo is bad] and he believed that Mewtwo is a low tier character because of Mewtwo's flaws and its nerf. Its weight and hurtbox is now a big problem along with its abilities. When you try to work hard with Mewtwo and end up at KO percent or get KO'ed earlier, you now feel like Mewtwo is a higher risk low rewarded character. [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 20:45, 9 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
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::The video and source you showed me could be worth mentioning. We'll see how it goes over time as metagame develops. So you said Mewtwo is competitively viable as a secondary or counterpick right and Mewtwo is not the worst in the game. Do you know what Mewtwo's tournament presence and viability condition should be? Very weak tournament viability or what? [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 02:18, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | ::The video and source you showed me could be worth mentioning. We'll see how it goes over time as metagame develops. So you said Mewtwo is competitively viable as a secondary or counterpick right and Mewtwo is not the worst in the game. Do you know what Mewtwo's tournament presence and viability condition should be? Very weak tournament viability or what? [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 02:18, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
::In general consensus, did most people say that Mewtwo was buffed from Melee, or nerfed? [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 02:35, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | ::In general consensus, did most people say that Mewtwo was buffed from Melee, or nerfed? [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 02:35, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
:::According to this community voted tier list I found where Mewtwo was once considered mid-tier (http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-700#post-19321282), C is considered niche use meaning such characters have an advantage when used for certain matchups, perhaps against slow moving characters who lack projectiles or reflectors such as Ike, Charizard or Ganondorf. It almost translates similarly to Mewtwo's placement in the Melee tier list as a B character (http://smashboards.com/threads/2013-community-tier-list.336113/) which posits Mewtwo as a good character for specific matchups. Hence it seems that Mewtwo requires very specific conditions in order to be viable in this game. | |||
:::In regards to your last question, my personal opinion is that Mewtwo is just as good (or bad) of a character as he was in Melee, meaning he has been neither overall buffed or nerfed. [[Special:Contributions/198.72.246.34|198.72.246.34]] 02:46, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::I see. Will you explain why he is nether overall buffed or nerfed? [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 02:54, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::I am basing my conclusion off of the current community voted tier list for SSB4 and the latest community voted tier list for Melee. The results for both polls position Mewtwo as viable for niche use. [[Special:Contributions/71.95.171.74|71.95.171.74]] 17:26, 14 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
== Orange tint reference == | |||
Out of respect of [[SW:1RV]], I will take it to here, that cannot be in any way a reference. Why do you think it'd possibly be a reference? [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 22:57, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:Here's the thing: First off, why would Sakurai do that? Compared to the other references he did, that seems utterly outlandish and rather dumb, and another thing, why would an orange gleam be a reference to a glass tube? Yes, I saw the movie, but I think it's too outlandish to be an implied reference. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 23:00, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
Well, that's the first time we see Mewtwo in both the movie and trailer. And why would he do it? I'd assume the same reason he put it with Mew. Also, AFAIK, Mewtwo's eyes don't turn orange through any normal means in Smash 4.[[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:04, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:Now here's the question because I don't remember, does Mewtwo's eyes actually gleam orange at any point in the movie? Because if that's the case it can stay, otherwise I see no reason why it should. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 23:05, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
You mean aside from the glass? I only remember them turning blue, but I only remember orange in the tube. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:10, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:Then I can't say it's noteworthy or believable enough trivia. Orange tube + orange eyes do not match up to me, and like I said, seems way too outlandish to be believable. I will still remain open for input on the matter. In the meantime, I think the trivia point should stay off the page because we have no way to believe they add up. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 23:13, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
Okay. Guess I'm watching the movie again. I would like to ask a question. Can Mewtwo's eyes turn orange at any point in Smash 4? The closest I found was a Smash Ball glow, but they look yellow to me, and white pupils. | |||
If they don't, then why do you think the trailer had orange? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:18, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:1: No idea. | |||
:2: Could very easily have been a design choice on Sakurai's part. Sometimes things are just a choice of design to make it look cool, rather than being a reference. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 23:20, 12 January 2016 (EST) | |||
^Do you have an example? What other characters have something like that? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 12:15, 13 January 2016 (EST) | |||
I agree with DF. That really has no basis. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 13:59, 13 January 2016 (EST) | |||
Okay, so assuming NemesisSLC still agrees, the vote is 2:2. Does anyone else have an opinion? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 14:02, 13 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:You know, I just had a thought. Sometimes shows, video games, etc. leave these minor Easter Eggs to be found out, but they're very small that most people won't notice them, if not for quite a while. I know The Simpsons do it. And I'm pretty convinced it is. | |||
As for the "just to make it cool" pitch, did they do this to any of the other character trailers? I'd check myself, but I don't play most of the other games that have the trailers, like Punch Out, Megaman, Mario, & Fire Emblem. I'm still convinced that these two orange eyes are connected. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 20:35, 14 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:Honestly, I'm still not convinced. Sakurai doesn't do subtle hints. As for the cool thing, for one thing, Greninja's Shuriken is more vibrant in color in the trailer. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 20:41, 14 January 2016 (EST) | |||
::I wouldn't say Sakurai ''doesn{{'}}t'' do subtle hints, but we have no reason to believe he did. | |||
::This is really just baseless speculation and this section has no reason to be this large... <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 20:47, 14 January 2016 (EST) | |||
Okay, maybe it is speculation, and maybe it isn't. One question: doesn't the trivia mention things that are ''possibly'' references? Because I feel like I've seen that, but I can't remember for sure. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 21:02, 14 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:It does if there is any amount of evidence besides a vague color-based similarity between two completely unrelated objects. :| <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 21:08, 14 January 2016 (EST) | |||
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I've been thinking about this a LOT, and I STILL think this was the case. I mean, they're both called "Mewtwo Strikes Back", so it makes sense to have a movie reference, of the first instance we see him (his orange eyes). His eyes can't turn orange at all in the game, and there's no stage to represent the tube or bubbles, so maybe Sakurai did the next best thing. Another thing I noticed is that in both cases, it's the left eye. [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 12:51, 7 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:This is something that no one remembers and has little-to-no connection to anything. Even if it ''was'' a reference, we '''will not''' add it until there is sufficient proof from Sakurai or some other developer related to the trailers that make it obviously true. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 12:54, 7 February 2016 (EST) | |||
Okay, so what if we said it was a coincidence or something? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 13:04, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Calling it a coincidence means nothing if no one believes it. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:HotPink; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px skyblue">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:HotPink;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:DisasterFlareValentineSig.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:HotPink;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 13:50, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
Huh? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 13:56, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Even if we call it a coincidence, the fact of the matter is that the majority believes these aren't related, and until we have sufficient evidence that says otherwise, people will continue to not believe it. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:HotPink; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px skyblue">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:HotPink;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:DisasterFlareValentineSig.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:HotPink;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 13:58, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
== Can we get this protected? == | |||
It recently seems to be a vandal target. [[User:Penro|'''Penro''']] [[User talk:Penro|...that's all.]] [[File:PenroDarkPitHead.png|19px]] [[File:PenroZSSHead.png|19px]] 19:32, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Jesus Christ. Again? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 19:49, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::It ''is'' Mewtwo. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 19:51, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
So what? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 19:52, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:Ladies and gentlemen: SK and his sense of humor. LOL --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|50px]] [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''BeepYou'''</font>]], '''a user with no grammar at all :v [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 22:51, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
::<nowiki>*bow*</nowiki> <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 22:55, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||
:::...I don't get it. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="magenta">cupid♥</font>]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 23:33, 19 February 2016 (EST) | |||