Talk:Meteor smash/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

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''How did Falcos D-air get into the Meteor smash page, everyone knows thats a spike?????
''How did Falcos D-air get into the Meteor smash page, everyone knows thats a spike?????


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== R.O.B. ==
== R.O.B. ==


Is R.O.B.'s down aerial a Meteor Smash or a spike?. In his page, on section "Atributes" states: "with his D-air acting as a Meteor Smash", and on the section "Moveset" says that his D-air is: "yet slow, but powerful, and can spike,...". I also noticed that Squirtle and Pikachu aren't in the list. {{unsigned|189.153.152.213|22:49, 10 August 2009}}
Is R.O.B.'s down aerial a Meteor Smash or a spike?. In his page, on section "Atributes" states: "with his D-air acting as a Meteor Smash", and on the section "Moveset" says that his D-air is: "yet slow, but powerful, and can spike,...". I also noticed that Squirtle and Pikachu aren't in the list. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:189.153.152.213|189.153.152.213]] ([[User talk:189.153.152.213|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/189.153.152.213|contribs]]) 22:49, 10 August 2009</small>
:There are no Spikes in Brawl, only Meteor Smashes, so the Moveset section should say "and can meteor smash". Squirtle and Pikachu, among others, aren't on the list because they don't have meteor smashes - not every character has a meteor smash. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 22:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
:There are no Spikes in Brawl, only Meteor Smashes, so the Moveset section should say "and can meteor smash". Squirtle and Pikachu, among others, aren't on the list because they don't have meteor smashes - not every character has a meteor smash. '''''<span style="font-family:Arial;">[[User:PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Penguin</font>]][[User talk:PenguinofDeath|<font color="gray">of</font>]][[Special:Contributions/PenguinofDeath|<font color="silver">Death</font>]]</span>''''' 22:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


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:::::::::::I just viewed some combo videos for Ness and none of them showed Ness using his d-tilt for edgeguarding. The fact of the matter is that his d-tilt is not a premier edgeguarder, especially when Ness has his awesome dair and bair. It is going to be rather difficult finding a video showcasing the edgeguarding prowess of his d-tilt. I would also like to thank you for the compliment about the Forward Smash Chart, no hard feelings. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] ([[User talk:Omega Tyrant|talk]]) 06:32, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::I just viewed some combo videos for Ness and none of them showed Ness using his d-tilt for edgeguarding. The fact of the matter is that his d-tilt is not a premier edgeguarder, especially when Ness has his awesome dair and bair. It is going to be rather difficult finding a video showcasing the edgeguarding prowess of his d-tilt. I would also like to thank you for the compliment about the Forward Smash Chart, no hard feelings. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] ([[User talk:Omega Tyrant|talk]]) 06:32, April 15, 2010 (UTC)


One can argue the trajectory of a meteor smash but one cannot argue sheer numbers. A important aspect of meteor smashes is that they hit airborne opponents harder then grounded opponents. This applies to all meteor smashes except some [[Special Moves|special]] meteors and  Charizard's dair. In the case of the special meteors, they just don't hit grounded opponents as a meteor, such as the  Super Dedede Jump. In the case of Charizard, his dair actually hits grounded opponents harder. So I went and tested this on Ness's d-tilt against a 300% Jigglypuff. While on the ground, her launch speed was 1225mph. While on the ledge and in the air, her speed was again 1225mph. I boosted the damage ratio to 2.0 and again, all her launch sppeds were even at 2450mph. Just for comparision, I tested the launch speeds of Ness's dair, a well known meteor. Jigglypuff's speed on the ground was 9373mph. Her speed in the air and on the ledge was 12011 mph. As you can see, there is quite a difference. I also tested the launch speeds of Ganondorf's f-tilt, a well known semi-spike. Just like Ness's d-tilt, Jigglypuff's launch speed was the same on both the ground and in the air at 13023mph. As you can see, the ground/air law of meteor smashes doesn't apply to semi-spikes. All the data I collected indicates Ness's d-tilt is a semi-spike and not a meteor smash. Hopefully, this will be enough to convince you. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] ([[User talk:Omega Tyrant|talk]]) 21:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
One can argue the trajectory of a meteor smash but one cannot argue sheer numbers. A important aspect of meteor smashes is that they hit airborne opponents harder then grounded opponents. This applies to all meteor smashes except some [[Special move|special]] meteors and  Charizard's dair. In the case of the special meteors, they just don't hit grounded opponents as a meteor, such as the  Super Dedede Jump. In the case of Charizard, his dair actually hits grounded opponents harder. So I went and tested this on Ness's d-tilt against a 300% Jigglypuff. While on the ground, her launch speed was 1225mph. While on the ledge and in the air, her speed was again 1225mph. I boosted the damage ratio to 2.0 and again, all her launch sppeds were even at 2450mph. Just for comparision, I tested the launch speeds of Ness's dair, a well known meteor. Jigglypuff's speed on the ground was 9373mph. Her speed in the air and on the ledge was 12011 mph. As you can see, there is quite a difference. I also tested the launch speeds of Ganondorf's f-tilt, a well known semi-spike. Just like Ness's d-tilt, Jigglypuff's launch speed was the same on both the ground and in the air at 13023mph. As you can see, the ground/air law of meteor smashes doesn't apply to semi-spikes. All the data I collected indicates Ness's d-tilt is a semi-spike and not a meteor smash. Hopefully, this will be enough to convince you. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] ([[User talk:Omega Tyrant|talk]]) 21:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
:Fine, you win. What does "mph" mean in this case though? [[Special:Contributions/98.111.95.78|98.111.95.78]] 00:43, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
:Fine, you win. What does "mph" mean in this case though? [[Special:Contributions/98.111.95.78|98.111.95.78]] 00:43, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
::It's just the knockback units used by the game. It does not mean the presumed "miles per hour" or anything, it's just a bunch of letters. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 00:45, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
::It's just the knockback units used by the game. It does not mean the presumed "miles per hour" or anything, it's just a bunch of letters. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 00:45, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
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==Kirby==
==Kirby==
Watch. His beam is a meteor smash. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIXOZHxFjhA. {{unsigned|Mr. Anon|00:18, July 25, 2010 (UTC)}}
Watch. His beam is a meteor smash. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIXOZHxFjhA. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Anon|contribs]]) 00:18, July 25, 2010 (UTC)</small>


:Sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> <font face="sand" color="silver">[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color="#ff2000">Doctor Pain 99</font>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Dr. Pain 99|<font color="silver">C</font>]][[User Talk:Dr. Pain 99|<font color="silver">T</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Dr. Pain 99|<font color="silver">E</font>]])</font> [[file:dp99.png]] 00:21, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
:Sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> <font face="sand" color="silver">[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color="#ff2000">Doctor Pain 99</font>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Dr. Pain 99|<font color="silver">C</font>]][[User Talk:Dr. Pain 99|<font color="silver">T</font>]][[Special:Editcount/Dr. Pain 99|<font color="silver">E</font>]])</font> [[file:dp99.png]] 00:21, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
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Is it a meteor? Look at this. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:48, 13 October 2010 (EDT)
Is it a meteor? Look at this. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:48, 13 October 2010 (EDT)


<youtube>TJHtfk8gK1U</youtube>
{{#widget:YouTube|id=TJHtfk8gK1U}}
:No, that was a stage spike. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span>[[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 01:44, 14 October 2010 (EDT)
:No, that was a stage spike. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span>[[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 01:44, 14 October 2010 (EDT)
::Yep, stage spike. You can tell because the impending angle indicator was pointing up and towards the stage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 07:34, 14 October 2010 (EDT)
::Yep, stage spike. You can tell because the impending angle indicator was pointing up and towards the stage. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 07:34, 14 October 2010 (EDT)
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==Change SSB64 Spike to Meteor smash==
==Change SSB64 Spike to Meteor smash==
I don't think we should Mr. Anon, even though the website refers to them as a meteor smash, [[Spike]]s and meteor smashes have some very differential properties, but we'll just see what other users say.--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif‎ ]] 23:25, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
I don't think we should Mr. Anon, even though the website refers to them as a meteor smash, [[Spike]]s and meteor smashes have some very differential properties, but we'll just see what other users say.--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif ]] 23:25, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
:But meteor canceling wasn't even invented in SSB64. Really the term spike only has any meaning in Melee (an perhaps when refering to certain boss moves in Brawl). I'm overally indifferent on this issue, I just think this needs to be discussed. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:30, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
:But meteor canceling wasn't even invented in SSB64. Really the term spike only has any meaning in Melee (an perhaps when refering to certain boss moves in Brawl). I'm overally indifferent on this issue, I just think this needs to be discussed. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:30, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
::To be fair, the English SSB64 site (I'm assuming you're getting to it via web archive, yes?) is extremely inaccurate in a lot of its terminology. I wouldn't call it very reliable. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:38, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
::To be fair, the English SSB64 site (I'm assuming you're getting to it via web archive, yes?) is extremely inaccurate in a lot of its terminology. I wouldn't call it very reliable. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:38, 11 April 2011 (EDT)
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Using an emulator and a memory viewer, I can read the angle produced by hitboxes. I have confirmed that the non-final hits of Kirby's fair do in fact have an angle of -90. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Metroid 23:28, 22 December 2011 (EST)
Using an emulator and a memory viewer, I can read the angle produced by hitboxes. I have confirmed that the non-final hits of Kirby's fair do in fact have an angle of -90. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Metroid 23:28, 22 December 2011 (EST)
:Alright, thanks for the confirmation. The IP reverted Anon without explaining, so I reverted them in turn. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:30, 22 December 2011 (EST)
:Alright, thanks for the confirmation. The IP reverted Anon without explaining, so I reverted them in turn. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:30, 22 December 2011 (EST)
== Shouldn't this info be moved? ==
I've noticed this on Ganondorf's side special in the ''Brawl'' section.
"[[Flame Choke]] - Ganondorf lifts his opponent by the head and launches them directly into the ground. If it is used over a ledge, they are sent downwards very weakly, and will grab any ledge which can be grabbed at any percentages, as it has [[set knockback]]."
Shouldn't that be in Ganondorf's ''Melee'' meteor smashes, since when Flame Choke in ''Brawl'' is used, it Ganoncides and thus it isn't a meteor smash? I think this is in the wrong area - it should belong in his ''Melee'' meteor smashes, right? [[User:Transdimensionalflux|Transdimensionalflux]] ([[User talk:Transdimensionalflux|talk]]) 22:51, 27 April 2012 (EDT)
:Grounded Flame Choke meteor smashes, and aerial Gerudo Dragon in Melee did not meteor smash (it knocked back opponents vertically). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:00, 27 April 2012 (EDT)
:: Yeah, I  just recently found that out a few minutes ago when I was looking up the Gerudo Dragon side special from ''Melee'' and I saw it wasn't a meteor smash, so I came back here to say "nevermind" but you got to it first. Anyways, thanks. [[User:Transdimensionalflux|Transdimensionalflux]] ([[User talk:Transdimensionalflux|talk]]) 23:03, 27 April 2012 (EDT)