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==Split== | ==Split== | ||
These are 2 totally different charecters. if [[Luma]] and [[Pikmin]] can get a page surely these 2 can. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 12:58, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | These are 2 totally different charecters. if [[Luma]] and [[Pikmin]] can get a page surely these 2 can. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 12:58, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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:::I oppose to the split because of Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers. If we split Banjo-Kazooie than Popo and Nana would need to be separated and so would the nameless dog and duck. And besides, we're Smash Wiki so we should have emphasis on the Super Smash Bros. series. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 16:45, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | :::I oppose to the split because of Duck Hunt and Ice Climbers. If we split Banjo-Kazooie than Popo and Nana would need to be separated and so would the nameless dog and duck. And besides, we're Smash Wiki so we should have emphasis on the Super Smash Bros. series. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 16:45, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::'''Weak oppose''' for the same reasoning. They're distinct as characters, yes, but they're very closely related in Smash and in their native games, just like Duck Hunt and the Ice Climbers. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 17:27, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | ::::'''Weak oppose''' for the same reasoning. They're distinct as characters, yes, but they're very closely related in Smash and in their native games, just like Duck Hunt and the Ice Climbers. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 17:27, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::'''Oppose''' for these same reasons. It's also worth noting that Pikmin and Luma freely respawn and don't affect their base character's moveset much when separated, so they are essentially a separate entity; Duck Hunt and Banjo & Kazooie can't be separated at all, and KOing Nana significantly alters Popo's moveset and gameplay, so these are all more integral as a pair. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 20:59, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | :::::<s>'''Oppose''' for these same reasons. It's also worth noting that Pikmin and Luma freely respawn and don't affect their base character's moveset much when separated, so they are essentially a separate entity; Duck Hunt and Banjo & Kazooie can't be separated at all, and KOing Nana significantly alters Popo's moveset and gameplay, so these are all more integral as a pair.</s> I've switched to '''tentative support''' per the drafts provided below. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 20:59, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | ||
'''Support''' To me the "&" is acknowledging that these are two distinct entities like [[Rosalina]] & [[Luma]], joined up. If they had called it "Banjo-Kazooie" I think I would actually say "keep it together, that's the name of a ''duo'' like [[Duck Hunt]]." Their "&" choice is consistent with the fact that these characters sometimes ''do'' appear separately or without the other, such as the cases of ''Diddy Kong Racing'' and some ''Minecraft'' skins. --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] ([[User talk:Porplemontage|talk]]) 20:47, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | '''Support''' To me the "&" is acknowledging that these are two distinct entities like [[Rosalina]] & [[Luma]], joined up. If they had called it "Banjo-Kazooie" I think I would actually say "keep it together, that's the name of a ''duo'' like [[Duck Hunt]]." Their "&" choice is consistent with the fact that these characters sometimes ''do'' appear separately or without the other, such as the cases of ''Diddy Kong Racing'' and some ''Minecraft'' skins. --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] ([[User talk:Porplemontage|talk]]) 20:47, June 11, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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:Sheik and Tetra are considered to be different characters despite technically still being Zelda (Both having their own pages). It can be argued that Tetra herself is diffidently the Zelda of WW & PH's era, as shown by the events in ST. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 16:50, June 14, 2019 (EDT) | :Sheik and Tetra are considered to be different characters despite technically still being Zelda (Both having their own pages). It can be argued that Tetra herself is diffidently the Zelda of WW & PH's era, as shown by the events in ST. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 16:50, June 14, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::If the character page does not need to consider Fighter. I was wondering if we could merge Link's and Samus's pages, excluding status changes like Zelda and Sheik, it doesn't seem to be a bad idea.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 09:29, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | ::If the character page does not need to consider Fighter. I was wondering if we could merge Link's and Samus's pages, excluding status changes like Zelda and Sheik, it doesn't seem to be a bad idea.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 09:29, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::Samus and Zero Suit Samus do have different pages on the Meroid wiki so we can probably keep them separate. Despite that, I don't think Link should be merged with Young Link or Toon Link (or each other). Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf have been alternate ierations of the same character in ''Smash'' , where as Young Link and Toon Link stayed as two different ''specific'' iterations. It's possible I think that because only Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf have changed iterations in ''Smash'' while the other two have not. I mean, Dr. Mario has his own page (that has his one page of the ''Mario'' wiki), of which I do not think it should be merged with Mario either. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 12:21, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::But I imagined, even if we doing, there would be no problem. After all, we would create separate pages for every iteration of the Figher. We can put multiple Fighters on the same character page--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 12:32, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::::I'm not sure, considering the 3 Links are all fighters and only one has ever changed iterations. Although a more unique case, it's still being debated on how to list the Heroes from ''Dragon Quest'' since 4 of them are playable and 7 of them cameo in the Final Smash (which mean they get a page). [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 12:56, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
'''Information:''' I have produced a draft of what such a split might look like [[User:Toomai/Banjo|here]] and [[User:Toomai/Kazooie|here]]. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brazen 12:15, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
'''Support''': I have nothing to add to this discussion that hasnt already been said at length above. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 13:32, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
@Aidan, I don't see how splitting the pages shoves Kazooie aside? If anything, keeping them merged treats Banjo as if he were more prominent than Kazooie, while splitting them would depict them as characters who share the spotlight. With them merged and Banjo's name being listed first, it seems like he is more important while Kazooie is an unimportant sidekick. By granting Kazooie her own page, we can better cover how she is also the primary character of the franchise. | |||
That said, Toomai's drafts pretty clearly prove that there is plenty of information for both pages. It also significantly cleans up the trivia section. I'm still a strong supporter of splitting. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 22:59, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Although I agree with that, I think the trivia that applies to both characters should be on ''both'' pages. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 23:25, June 15, 2019 (EDT) | |||
@Nutta, what I'm specifically referring to would be this: | |||
{{Navbox-NoBar | |||
| title = {{symbol|BanjoKazooie|20px}} [[Banjo-Kazooie (universe)|''Banjo-Kazooie'' universe]] | |||
| group1 = [[Character]]s | |||
| list1 = {{universe navbox character|Banjo|SSBU}} ([[Kazooie]]) | |||
}} | |||
...which puts Banjo in the spotlight, and shoves Kazooie away as a side character (like Luma and the Pikmin), which, given the franchise as a whole, isn't necessarily the case. However, a workaround to avoid that could be: | |||
{{Navbox-NoBar | |||
| title = {{symbol|BanjoKazooie|20px}} [[Banjo-Kazooie (universe)|''Banjo-Kazooie'' universe]] | |||
| group1 = [[Character]]s | |||
| list1 = [[Banjo]] & [[Kazooie]] ([[Banjo & Kazooie (SSBU)|SSBU]]) | |||
}} | |||
Maybe I'm overthinking this, and maybe it's a bit too complicated, but this is definitely my thought process. I'd also argue that having the & emphasizes ''more'' than separating them that they're equally sharing the spotlight, though I can also see why you'd say that separating them does that more. That said, I am '''indifferent''' on splitting; I can see arguments on both sides. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 00:59, June 16, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I do like how the second one looks much better than the first. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 13:22, June 16, 2019 (EDT) | |||
---- | |||
It has been nearly a week since any comment from the opposing side has made a comment in regards to either an argument made for splitting the page, or a reason as to why the page should not be split. While I am aware that the wiki makes decisions based on consensus, I am also opposed to the idea of prolonging a dispute if no one is willing to speak up. That said, I won't shut this discussion down, solely for that reason - it would be unfair to the people who want to voice their opinion on the matter. | |||
Taking all of this into account, the split argument has a considerable amount of evidence and support behind it - while the opposing side does as well, it is mostly in regards to how they are as a fighter, which is, as multiple people have said before, irrelevant to main character pages. If people can give a reason why these pages should not be split and have it be relevant to the characters as they are rather than the fighter the duo makes up, then it will have been made clear that there is no central, consensus-based opinion on the matter. Two users have done so already, but if these pages are to be kept as one, then they will need more support for a consensus-based opinion. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 19:15, June 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:The main reason outside of the two acting as one fighter for keeping them on one page was that “the two are treated near-universally as a duo.” While this is true in Banjo-Kazooie 1, the fact that Banjo was in Diddy Kong Racing but not Kazooie, as well as the fact that Kazooie is not mentioned on the title for Banjo-Tooie, should show that they aren’t always treated as a duo the way the ice climbers are. You can safely talk about Banjo without any mention of Kazooie, and Vice Versa. The same is not true for the ice climbers. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 19:33, June 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Whether or not "Kazooie" shows up on the game's name is irrelevant to the character itself, especially when the example you've used is still clearly derivative of her own name. | |||
::Either way, there's still plenty of other examples of her being noteworthy on her own, some of which I haven't seen discussed earlier: | |||
::*As already mentioned, she can separate herself from Banjo in ''Banjo-Tooie'' to do certain tasks that Banjo combined/alone can't. | |||
::*Her kidnapping is a major plot point in ''Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge''. | |||
::*She is a separate character from Banjo in ''Banjo-Pilot'', complete with different stats from him. | |||
::For these reasons (and likely some others I've overlooked), I '''support''' a split. [[File:NokiiSig.png|link=User_talk:Nokii]] '''[[User:Nokii|{{color|#89d|Nokii}}]]''' — 20:55, June 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:My main problem with the split is that I believe, contrary to the above, you essentially ''can't'' talk about Banjo individually without mentioning Kazooie, or vice versa. While they are split in some cases, the duo's odd friendship and synergy is essential to their characters, not just gameplay-wise but personality-wise. Banjo's easygoing personality plays off of Kazooie's brash nature, forming the entire basis for their character dynamic. If you split them, you'd be mostly copy-pasting the exact same points that are currently talked about on the main page, ultimately leading to a redundancy issue. The only difference on Banjo's page would be a passing mention of his debut in ''Diddy Kong Racing''. Rosalina commonly appears without Lumas and the Pikmin commonly appear without Olimar; Kazooie never appears without Banjo, period. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 21:27, June 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::That's not actually true. If you mean, "Kazooie never appears '''in a game''' without Banjo", then, yes, '''that''' is true. The matter isn’t that Kazooie hasn’t appeared in a game without ''Banjo'', it is that Banjo has appeared in games without ''Kazooie''. Outside of the Duck's trophy in ''Melee'' and sticker in ''Brawl'', the duck & dog of Duck Hunt have never appeared '''without each other'''. Same goes for the Ice Climbers. Banjo has appeared '''by himself''' without Kazooie in ''Diddy Kong Racing'' and in a few cameos in other games. Kat & Ana, who always appear to share a wiki page regardless of the wiki, ''have'' never appeared '''without each other''' in a game, unlike Banjo & Kazooie. Yes, they are an inseparable pair, but there ''is'' enough info on Banjo and Kazooie individually to have their own pages. Since it isn't uncommen for Origin and Trivia information to overlap between characters, I don’t think the repeated info in those cases would be a problem. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 21:54, June 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::I did mean in terms of appearing in a game, individually, yes. Having seen Toomai's concept pages after making this post, the idea is actually less redundant than I was thinking, so I'm warming up to the idea of a split. I'll go ahead and switch to '''tentative support''' if it's executed properly. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 00:03, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
'''Additional support argument''': No one has questioned having a page for Arsene, and he is much more a part of Joker (manifestiation of his personal subconscious) than Kazooie is of Banjo (best friends). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Researcher 22:02, June 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I want to say this is a case of it being influenced by the in-game function, as Joker can fight separately without Arsene in the same manner Rosalina can fight without a Luma. Banjo and Kazooie are linked much more closely in the context of ''Smash'', but the idea of "should a character's page be influenced by their depiction in ''Smash''" has been covered dozens of times so I won't repeat that. [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 00:03, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::You forgot the premise again, discuss only characters, not Fighters. In fact, Ice Climbers can also fight alone.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 00:41, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
I '''support''' a split. What convinces me is the "separate character vs. function in ''Smash''" argument. While Kazooie might just be a part of Banjo's moveset in ''Ultimate'', she is a separate character. Thus, if Arsene can get a page, so can Kazooie. However, we now must address the matter of the Duck Hunt dog and duck being on the same page and maybe even Nana and Popo, for consistency's sake. Also, I like Aidan's second idea for the template at the bottom of the page. Looks sharp. The same treatment should be extended to Rosalina and Luma in the ''Mario'' universe template. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">HUAH!</span>]]</b> 12:07, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I'm going to oppose the idea of separating both the dog and duck and Popo and Nana, on the grounds that the "Duck Hunt" name, both outside and inside of Smash, is used to refer to the dog and the duck because they have no otherwise official name, and the Ice Climbers are, unlike Banjo and Kazooie, not seen without one another (with the exception of 1P ''Ice Climbers''). It was one of the major things about them: they were, and still are, an inseparable duo. RelaxAlax put it quite well in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eO3-g2tZe0 this video]: | |||
{{cquote|Many fans have suggested that they make up for losing the Ice Climbers by including a single Ice Climber instead. Y'know, because in ''Ice Climbers''{{'}} single player, you only played as Popo, and if you wanted both of them, you could have them through alternate costumes, like Wii Fit Trainer and Villager. ...no. I don't think so. That would not be the Ice Climbers, and I think Sakurai knows this. If he wanted to do them like that, I think he would've done it in the first place. But he didn't. A solo Ice Climber would defeat the reasoning as to why Sakurai added them way back in ''Melee''. And though Nana can be stupider than a pile of Wii shovelware, I would not give her up just to have Popo. The nature of the Ice Climbers and their teamwork would be lost.}} | |||
:There's also the fact that the name "Ice Climbers", much like the "Duck Hunt" name, refers to the two of them as one entity both inside and outside of ''Smash'', unlike "Rosalina '''&''' Luma", "Pikmin '''&''' Olimar", "Banjo '''&''' Kazooie", where it's instead two different entities as one duo. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 13:04, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Are we in agreement, then? The floor is open to anyone who wants to disagree, but to me, it seems as though a consensus has been reached. If anyone has anything more they'd like to add, now's the time to do it. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:09, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Absolutely not. Kazooie has nothing to be said about her separate from her existence as an extension of Banjo. Yes she has characterization, but what would a Kazooie page say that isn't just "she does X with Banjo"? It would be entirely redundant and of little value. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 16:24, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::[[User:Toomai/Kazooie|Toomai's draft for a Kazooie page]] seems to avoid just that, if I'm being completely honest. It does detail a lot of her side(s) of the story, and, for information that is covered on both pages, changes details to specifically refer to her rather than Banjo (though I will admit, it could do without the repetition of info). [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 16:41, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::There is enough info for Kazooie's page to stand on its own. Yes, it may repeat some info, but some pages need to. Mario, Peach, and Bowser's pages all need to mention that Mario saves Peach after she's kidnapped by Bowser. Same case with Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. The pages ''can'' be rewritten so it is not word for word and to focus more on the individual. I do not think there is a problem with Kazooie getting her own page. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 16:51, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::Honestly I see little point to it, and most of that information could easily be condensed into this article with little loss. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:08, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::::If there is little point, then why oppose? As [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] put it, is does seem that a consensus has/had been reached. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 17:22, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::::Clarification: "little point" to having a separate page for a character whose existence is entirely defined by her existence as part of another character's abilities. (Also this discussion isn't even close to consensus. It's about the furthest thing from it, honestly.) [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:26, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::::::Miles, just to let you know, you seem to be the only one still arguing that Kazooie should share a page. Everyone else has either changed their mind or is completely MIA at the moment. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 18:05, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::::::I was under that impression from a different discussion, but apparently I was wrong about a consensus not having been reached yet. I do know a consensus is based on the info users use to support their argument, but I am not sure which statements do that well. Maybe I can't identify that stuff as well as others like you can. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 17:45, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
It looks as I'm late to the party, but on opinions of the split I'm '''neutral with a lean towards support''' on this. I see it as DuckHunt, where the two characters are put together, but as they have two distinct personalities, they should be split. Ice Climbers do not retain a complex personality, as their interactions ingame are with barely any conversation. Regarding Rosalina and Luma, Luma branches off into other Lumas and explains lore, IC and DH do not with that much of an extent. Joker and Arsene split as the two have different personalities and are different in their home game. If Banjo and Kazooie have their own backstory and complex personalities and function as two separate entities, which from reading and skimming they do, then I believe a split is in play. | |||
[[User:El's Bladeworks|Eletro]] ([[User talk:El's Bladeworks|talk]]) 19:10, June 19, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I still have doubts about Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt. They are not even a combination in the original game, it's only in ''Smash'' that they're combined. If our consensus is that only characters are discussed not fighters, then I don't see why they need to be merged. --[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 00:05, June 20, 2019 (EDT) | |||
I still want to say I'm opposed but I guess I'm in the minority. --[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 08:35, June 21, 2019 (EDT) | |||
We've been easily a week since the opposition offered any argument besides "there isn't enough information on Kazooie to justify it", which Toomai pretty soundly rebuffed with his draft, and basically everyone who was opposed 1) has more-or-less changed their mind, 2) has admitted defeat, or 3) hasn't participated in the discussion since the most recent development, with Miles being the sole exception. If that's not a consensus, I don't know what is. [[User:TheNuttyOne|TheNuttyOne]] 00:30, June 22, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Banjo and Kazooie [https://i.imgur.com/wiby7ov.png are separate characters]. Per wiki policy/tradition, the character pages should be separate. If a majority agree that an exception should be made in this case, that's one thing. But I believe that separate pages should be the default state with the burden of making the case for an exception on the people who want to have the two characters on one combined page (in other words, if this came down to 50/50 or no consensus, I think we should go with the established norm of separate pages because going against normal policy should be the action that requires clear majority support). --[[User:Porplemontage|Porplemontage]] ([[User talk:Porplemontage|talk]]) 02:21, June 22, 2019 (EDT) | |||