Forum:Tier list debate 2020: Part 1: Difference between revisions

#'''Support'''. Boy, would I be shocked to hear myself say this back in July, but honestly, heck the entire concept of "tiers." Please, just dump any mention of "high-tier" or "low-tier" or what have you, and leave it at that. Tier lists stink so much for so many reasons, most already mentioned above. Although, that's not to say competitive reception of a fighter is to be completely ignored. Obviously we'd still have sections going over the general opinion and how the fighter has fared competitively. I know many people come here for that, and I fully oppose removing competitive reception altogether. But, it's just, the very ''concept'' of the "tier list" screams "fact" in my eyes. This is what bugged me when I voted for option 3 back in July, and while I wouldn't be completely opposed to that option nowadays, as I've gotten more familiar with the ''Smash'' community I've felt more and more strongly that drawing the line between "fact" and "opinion" is very, very important, and for some reason, tier lists really seem to blur that line when they put a fighter in a particular spot. Wouldn't you agree? Sincerely, [[User:SamtheBKBoss|Samuel]] the [[User talk:SamtheBKBoss|<span style="color: #0123A8">'''Banjo-'''</span><span style="color: #FF1901">'''Kazooie'''</span>]] Boss. [[File:SamtheBKBossSIGN.png|16px]] 00:21, January 1, 2021 (EST)

#'''Support'''. After revising this, I feel cramped from choosing option 3. It isn't exactly on how choosing a tier just changes a thing, it's just the way opinions are made. Obviously, since character pages like Smash Ultimate in competitive play have been saying tiers like a top; high; mid; or low tier. This makes an impact on what professional players are making tiers, there are opinions on how most professional players overrating Sonic and placing him in top tier, while {{Sm|ESAM}} underrating Sonic into upper mid. The effect on an opinion changing into a fact is very ''subtle'' and what this change isn't the fact it just a tier list that makes it a fact, but rather confusion and questions on players that they see the tier list as needing or suggesting. This is why matchup charts and tier lists in the wiki are just out of date, it's too weird to think one character is better overall, just because that the tier list is literally made in 2015, while the current meta finds that character worse overall. Matchups also have an effect like a tier list, similar to how a character has a disadvantage in (year), and now meta is now even. This obviously understand not only these facts are outdated and each fact like tier letters (s, a, b, c, etc.), tier lists, matchups, and outdated tiers make an appearance, but rather a thing overall that needs to be fixed and opinions are greater than facts as these tier lists and meta changes overall. The word ''Appearance'' is literally a noun, and what does this noun have, the appearance of what a change can have, appearance in smash (especially in smash ultimate) has lots of things that can change the whole meta, updates from buffs and nerfs on characters, player base on each character, characters win in super or major tournaments, new DLC character that can affect the matchups, etc. A thing is a noun and almost every single thing altogether makes a sudden change into Smash Ultimate overall and the Smash community altogether. [[User:Howplayz|<span style="font-family: Caveat;color:Blue;">''How''</span>]][[User talk:Howplayz|<span style="font-family: Caveat;color:Blue;">playz</span>'']] 00:57, January 1, 2021 (EST)

===Option 2: New source===

#'''Support.''' I would just like to point out that we sort-of already ''do'' rely on a new source; the most recent ''SSB64'' and ''Melee'' tier lists are, as noted, as a result of fan votes and feedback. Additionally, the first ''SSB64'' tier list was provided by GameFaqs. As for ''Ultimate'', I guess [[:Image:SSBU Tier List.jpg|this tier list]] that was briefly added to the article could work. <span style="font-family:Mario Party 2/3 Textbox">[[User:RickTommy|<span style="color:red">Rick</span>]][[User talk:RickTommy|<span style="color:green">Tommy</span>]]</span> 22:16, June 15, 2020 (EDT)

#'''Support only if we can truly find a good source.''' If we can't find a good trustworthy source then option 1. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:AW MAN 5|AW MAN 5]] ([[User talk:AW MAN 5|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AW MAN 5|contribs]]) 13:51, September 6, 2020 (EDT)</small>

===Option 3: Aggregate===

#'''Support''': I think that this is an easily implemented solution right now.  I think it's a little ridiculous that new players to the game who want to see a tier list still see a 2015 tier list that just doesn't represent the modern meta.  Right now I could throw an average tier list based off leffen, hbox, mew2king and armada's lists and it might not be perfect but it would be already be a more reasonable representation of the meta.  Aggregate practically is also the best option because it avoids over weighting projected confidence.  As long as reliable people are chosen I think it's the obvious decision

#'''Support''' This is the best method because we take a lot of tier lists and put them together, and that is fair to everyone because it combines opinions instead of going with only one. [[User:SSBU Boi|SSBU Boi]] ([[User talk:SSBU Boi|talk]]) 09:12, December 16, 2020 (EST)

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