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Forum:Project M coverage: Difference between revisions
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{{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ --> | {{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ --> | ||
{{Proposal}} | {{Proposal|failed}} | ||
Here's the fact: Project M is becoming less and less relevant. The PMDT has disbanded, VGBC is no longer streaming it, and the [[Cashed Out| | Here's the fact: Project M is becoming less and less relevant. The PMDT has disbanded, VGBC is no longer streaming it, and the [[Cashed Out| | ||
last PM national]] was held on ''January 21st, 2017, over a month ago''. As PM tournaments become more scarce and our PM character articles fall more and more out of date, I think it is finally time to declare PM old news. That is why I propose that the PM character articles be removed. Two ways we can do this: | last PM national]] was held on ''January 21st, 2017, over a month ago''. As PM tournaments become more scarce and our PM character articles fall more and more out of date, I think it is finally time to declare PM old news. That is why I propose that the PM character articles be removed. Two ways we can do this: | ||
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==Support full deletion of PM character pages== | ==Support full deletion of PM character pages== | ||
#I think that we need to make ssbwiki more relevant to what is up to date. I think we need to do this for Project M and SSBB. This will drive more attention on what is currently going on, and people won't be adding random Brawl trivia rather than help add results for the recent Melee/Smash 4 SuperMajor tournament. How do you sign stuff... | #I think that we need to make ssbwiki more relevant to what is up to date. I think we need to do this for Project M and SSBB. This will drive more attention on what is currently going on, and people won't be adding random Brawl trivia rather than help add results for the recent Melee/Smash 4 SuperMajor tournament. How do you sign stuff... <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:LCS|LCS]] ([[User talk:LCS|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LCS|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small> | ||
#:The only reason that this is an option for PM is because it's a mod of an official game. You want to delete character pages for Brawl, an official game in the series? That game had a 7 year run competitively, there's no way those are ever being deleted. Just because it isn't played much anymore doesn't mean they should just be thrown away. (I feel this way about PM as well.) Also, notability is not specifically a matter of "it's no longer relevant": notability is a matter of "it WAS relevant at one point". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 17:25, 4 March 2017 (EST) | #:The only reason that this is an option for PM is because it's a mod of an official game. You want to delete character pages for Brawl, an official game in the series? That game had a 7 year run competitively, there's no way those are ever being deleted. Just because it isn't played much anymore doesn't mean they should just be thrown away. (I feel this way about PM as well.) Also, notability is not specifically a matter of "it's no longer relevant": notability is a matter of "it WAS relevant at one point". [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 17:25, 4 March 2017 (EST) | ||
#::I just think that ssbwiki should be more about getting current info. If brawl at CEO Dreamland revives the franchise, then I think we should change nothing. We are all entitled to our own opinion, and I just think that is a very appropriate option right now. (I'm kind of offended | #::I just think that ssbwiki should be more about getting current info. If brawl at CEO Dreamland revives the franchise, then I think we should change nothing. We are all entitled to our own opinion, and I just think that is a very appropriate option right now. (I'm kind of offended <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:LCS|LCS]] ([[User talk:LCS|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LCS|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small> | ||
#:::I don't get the logic behind deleting the character pages for ''Brawl'' just because they're not being played competitively as much anymore. I think that sets a very dangerous precedent for any other games that may or may not fall into obscurity in the future. ''Brawl'' pages aren't stopping people from editing ''Smash 4'' and ''Melee'' pages. Also, keep in mind that this is not strictly a wiki for the competitive scene: this is a wiki dedicated to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 14:02, 5 March 2017 (EST) | #:::I don't get the logic behind deleting the character pages for ''Brawl'' just because they're not being played competitively as much anymore. I think that sets a very dangerous precedent for any other games that may or may not fall into obscurity in the future. ''Brawl'' pages aren't stopping people from editing ''Smash 4'' and ''Melee'' pages. Also, keep in mind that this is not strictly a wiki for the competitive scene: this is a wiki dedicated to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 14:02, 5 March 2017 (EST) | ||
#::::Well, I just think that making ssbwiki more based on the competitive scene is what we should do. You don't have to agree with me, but I think this is what would be best for the wiki. Besides, I am the only person on this wiki who thinks this. It won't happen. | #::::Well, I just think that making ssbwiki more based on the competitive scene is what we should do. You don't have to agree with me, but I think this is what would be best for the wiki. Besides, I am the only person on this wiki who thinks this. It won't happen. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:LCS|LCS]] ([[User talk:LCS|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LCS|contribs]]) {{{2}}}</small> | ||
#:::::If you think that this won't ever happen, why bother mentioning it? Bottom line, Brawl character pages will never be deleted. However, Project M, due to it not being official and the mod itself is losing popularity, we need to consider reducing it's significance. Also, please sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Gordon Freeman 13:29, 7 March 2017 (EST) | #:::::If you think that this won't ever happen, why bother mentioning it? Bottom line, Brawl character pages will never be deleted. However, Project M, due to it not being official and the mod itself is losing popularity, we need to consider reducing it's significance. Also, please sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Gordon Freeman 13:29, 7 March 2017 (EST) | ||
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#I never liked Project M. A single bit. Characters are so broken and Meleefied. I never got why it got to become a competitive game. While I like some of the skin mods to characters, this game lacks a lot of originality. However, seeing it does have a competitive base, I think that this should actually be the only factible solution. At least condense it in a full article. And hey, the articles are also badly written. We should really get a Project M dev to help us with the changelogs if the changes to characters are going to stay. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 18:36, 4 March 2017 (EST) | #I never liked Project M. A single bit. Characters are so broken and Meleefied. I never got why it got to become a competitive game. While I like some of the skin mods to characters, this game lacks a lot of originality. However, seeing it does have a competitive base, I think that this should actually be the only factible solution. At least condense it in a full article. And hey, the articles are also badly written. We should really get a Project M dev to help us with the changelogs if the changes to characters are going to stay. --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 18:36, 4 March 2017 (EST) | ||
#It's just a mod, and a shitty one, as well. Who can we thank for Brawl's loss of a competitive scene? That's right, Project M! Plus, players unfamiliar with Project M or the series might go here to learn more about Smash, and think some mod is a real Smash game because of how bloated PM is with its unnecessary individual character pages. We can't have that, can we? [[User:ViciousViridian|ViciousViridian]] ([[User talk:ViciousViridian|talk]]) 01:08, 13 March 2017 (EDT) | #It's just a mod, and a shitty one, as well. Who can we thank for Brawl's loss of a competitive scene? That's right, Project M! Plus, players unfamiliar with Project M or the series might go here to learn more about Smash, and think some mod is a real Smash game because of how bloated PM is with its unnecessary individual character pages. We can't have that, can we? [[User:ViciousViridian|ViciousViridian]] ([[User talk:ViciousViridian|talk]]) 01:08, 13 March 2017 (EDT) | ||
#:Brawl's loss of popularity was due to its unpopular mechanics, slower and unfriendly gameplay, and the imbalance of its character roster. Not to be biased again but, while Project M might be a backlash response to vanilla Brawl's gameplay, it was honestly never the cause of its downfall. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The NES 12:41, 13 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
==Oppose any deletion== | ==Oppose any deletion== | ||
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#PM still has it's tournaments. What good will deletion do? <span style="font-family:Corbel; font-size:12pt">[[User:Smash Master|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Smash''']] [[User talk:Smash Master|<span style="color:darkgreen">'''Master'''</span>]]</span></span> 14:04, 11 March 2017 (EST) | #PM still has it's tournaments. What good will deletion do? <span style="font-family:Corbel; font-size:12pt">[[User:Smash Master|<span style="color:darkblue">'''Smash''']] [[User talk:Smash Master|<span style="color:darkgreen">'''Master'''</span>]]</span></span> 14:04, 11 March 2017 (EST) | ||
#PM is a mod that people like even more than the original game. The only cause of all of this is Nintendo shutting down the project. We can't let the best mod ever created die. We can't forget it saved us from the death of a smash competitive scene. And there's still one. And it's still fun to play casually. This deletion would be everything but good. <b>[[User:Anto99|<font color="teal">Anto99</font>]] [[User talk:Anto99|<font color="purple">(talk)</font>]]</b> 08:41, 12 March 2017 (EDT) | #PM is a mod that people like even more than the original game. The only cause of all of this is Nintendo shutting down the project. We can't let the best mod ever created die. We can't forget it saved us from the death of a smash competitive scene. And there's still one. And it's still fun to play casually. This deletion would be everything but good. <b>[[User:Anto99|<font color="teal">Anto99</font>]] [[User talk:Anto99|<font color="purple">(talk)</font>]]</b> 08:41, 12 March 2017 (EDT) | ||
#Ohh so we're supporting creating PM & deleted some of our edits to this? No thanks. That's waste of our efforts to what we are doing. It is notable for saving smash competitive scene from controversial Brawl. Not liking PM is not a good reason. Smash wiki is a source of the game and competitive play NOT anti competitive & mod bias. [[User:Luigi540|Luigi540]] ([[User talk:Luigi540|talk]]) 09:48, 13 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
==Neutral== | ==Neutral== | ||
#PM is still significant at regionals, and [http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=214004 Legacy TE] was just released (very tournament friendly build) which might rekindle some popularity. I don't think we should delete PM information, because we already have it laid out perfectly. Even if it no longer has a major tournament presence, it still has historical relevance. I wouldn't be opposed to it being shrunk to the same size as other Brawl Mods, or being kept as is.[[User:DekZek|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''Dek'''</font><font color="Blue">'''Zek'''</font>]] [[File:Dekzeksig.png|20px|link=User talk:DekZek]] 21:59, 3 March 2017 (EST) | #PM is still significant at regionals, and [http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=214004 Legacy TE] was just released (very tournament friendly build) which might rekindle some popularity. I don't think we should delete PM information, because we already have it laid out perfectly. Even if it no longer has a major tournament presence, it still has historical relevance. I wouldn't be opposed to it being shrunk to the same size as other Brawl Mods, or being kept as is.[[User:DekZek|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''Dek'''</font><font color="Blue">'''Zek'''</font>]] [[File:Dekzeksig.png|20px|link=User talk:DekZek]] 21:59, 3 March 2017 (EST) | ||
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:...While I don't really think that the amount of Smash played has anything to do with administrating this wiki, I do have to agree that your ignoring of the smash community is rather...alarming. You've been blinded by the trollish hate on the reddit thread and because of it, you choose to disregard any true argument against this proposal. | :...While I don't really think that the amount of Smash played has anything to do with administrating this wiki, I do have to agree that your ignoring of the smash community is rather...alarming. You've been blinded by the trollish hate on the reddit thread and because of it, you choose to disregard any true argument against this proposal. | ||
:Once this is finished (can't be long now) I intend to open a new poll on the mentioning of PM on other articles, since you apparently won't. If you want to collaborate with me, fine, give me a shout on my talk, but I won't allow you to ignore consensus a second time. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">King</span>]]'''</span> 13:09, 12 March 2017 (EDT) | :Once this is finished (can't be long now) I intend to open a new poll on the mentioning of PM on other articles, since you apparently won't. If you want to collaborate with me, fine, give me a shout on my talk, but I won't allow you to ignore consensus a second time. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #0b7">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #fd0">King</span>]]'''</span> 13:09, 12 March 2017 (EDT) | ||
::"''...While I don't really think that the amount of Smash played has anything to do with administrating this wiki''" | |||
::It's very much relevant for a myriad of reasons. For one thing, it becomes a big question of one motive's for continuing to administrate a wiki that covers a game series they don't really play much in depth anymore; any reasonable admin will attest that the duties of administration are not glamorous themselves and are a time-consuming duty. Then if one doesn't play the games actively indepth, their familiarity with the content material comes under question, especially when Smash is a multiplayer game with a heavy competitive influence, that sees a continuous cycle of new information coming in and old information becoming out-of-date. And then when it's a multiplayer game with a heavy socialisation aspect even if you don't play it competitively, how can one be intuned with the game's community and its desires when they're not much of a player, especially when they have remained so asocial? | |||
::Now one could be a capable admin still without really playing the game, but mostly towards handling the user-side and noncontent-related policy side. Shadowcrest/Emmett was an admin/bureaucrat who exemplified this, who helped the wiki tremendously on user-side issues, but even then problems arose from his lack of interest in the games and his lack of familiarity with the community. He faded away to his own accord when he lost interest in the wiki's content material however, before those problems could end up hurting the wiki on the content side. But Miles as admin has always been content-focused and never delve much into the user-side, while always having been recognised as poor in that area, so that possible mitigation doesn't apply here for this lack of ingame experience and community awareness. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:10, 13 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
Final comment: It seems this suggestion was made primarily based on a misunderstanding of the current state of affairs, so since there is so much dissent about it, there's no way it's going through. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Honcho 17:48, 13 March 2017 (EDT) | |||