Forum:Categorizing Special Moves: Difference between revisions

With this I feel we have a clear well defined ruleset that makes sense. Please discuss under here some changes you wish to be made. If the changes get proper consensus I will change to rules to add that change. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 22:12, May 12, 2019 (EDT)

:Criteria 1, 2, and 3 are all pretty good. Criterion 5 is okay, but it may need some exceptions. Criterion 4 is not. I’ll say this a third time: Wolf’s Blaster has no resemblance whatsoever to Fox and Falco’s, and thise two also have throws and customs Wolf doesn’t have. It should not be merged under any circumstances. Ever. I removed Wolf’s blaster from the draft, and it looks much cleaner. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 01:36, May 13, 2019 (EDT)

:I mean, you should probably reread criteria 4 because I don't think it means what you think it does, but it's supposed to just make differences between moves more clear, your probably against criteria 1 which is what makes it so that wolf's special would be merged. I don't really know why you keep on insisting that wolf's blaster is nothing alike the others blasters, because that is just flat out not true. I think at this point you are just being ignorant to whatever anyone has to say, and are being quite toxic as well. I suggest you stop this kind of behavior. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 02:08, May 13, 2019 (EDT)

:::::'''[https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Meta_Knight_Blind_Pose_BRRES_Viewer_Brawl_Model.png Models]''' only change how something looks, which is how [[Jigglypuff#As_a_playable_character|Jigglypuff]] and Wolf got into ''Smash'' in the first place. The developers reused the framework from Kirby in ''64'' and Fox in ''Brawl'' over creating [[Unused_content_(SSB)#Scrapped|Mewtwo]] for ''64'' or [[Unused_content_(SSBB)#Considered|Krystal]] for ''Brawl'' to save time on making new playable characters. Same framework, different models. Same goes for how Luigi and Daisy became characters of the ''Mario'' series in the first place (pallet swaps with sprites and later models before receiving unique models from Mario and Peach).

:::::'''Animations''' only change how something moves. In fact, that is how "[[Clone|Clones]]" are currently [https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:DrMarioAerialAttacksSSBM.png being] [https://www.ssbwiki.com/File:MarioAerialAttacksSSBM.png defined] on SmashWiki. Ganondorf is considered a clone because his animations are the same, if not similar, to Captain Falcon’s. The reason why we do not group their special moves together regardless of their similarity is because they come from two different series, being ''Zelda'' and ''F-Zero''. Similarly, [[Kat & Ana]] and [[Latias and Latios]] are basically the same assist but from different items ([[Assist Trophy]] and [[Poke Ball]]). The main difference is that Latias and Latios’ animation has them attack individually instead of simultaneously like Kat & Ana’s animation. Same goes for a few Poke Ball Pokemon, like [[Chikorita]] and [[Snivy]] using [[Razor Leaf]], or [[Piplup]] and [[Oshawott]] using [[Surf]]. Same move with different visuals and animations.

:::::'''Techs''' are fan terms used to identify [[Category:Techniques|techniques]] that can be done and not necessarily something the developers had originally intended. [[Boost grab]] and [[Gimp]] being examples of general techniques. And [[Desynching]] and [[Crownerang#Crown_Bouncing|Crown Bouncing]] being character specific examples. Yes, both Fox and Falco use their blasters within their throws while Wolf does not, but the move is actually their throws, not their blaster. Using their down, up, and back throws activate their laser within the move (being intentional), which could possibly be instead considered a “[[Fighter ability|Fighter Ability]]” to Fox and Falco, rather than a "tech".

:::::With all that being said, I believe that '''separating the moves by name''' makes the most sense with making it easier for most people. With a move that has the same name that has multiple users, like "Blaster", should be on the same page. Someone could get confused on how to find differences between the users if they did not know if they were on different pages. With a move like "Daisy Bomber", where it does not have any differences from "Peach Bomber" despite having a different name, the page should be changed to incorporate both moves into the whole page and not just one section. A move used by multiple characters tend to specify like this: ''“Thunder Jolt (でんげき, Electric Shock) is Pikachu and Pichu's neutral special move”''. However, Peach Bomber only mentions Peach. Someone may get confused while looking for information for Daisy if they did not know Peach Bomber applied to both characters. It should then say: ''Peach Bomber (ピーチボンバー, Peach Bomber) and Daisy Bomber (デイジーボンバー, Daisy Bomber) are Peach and Daisy’s side special move'', or ''Peach Bomber (ピーチボンバー, Peach Bomber), and Daisy Bomber (デイジーボンバー, Daisy Bomber), is Peach’s, and Daisy’s, side special move''. (Preferably the first one) Moves like with different names, like [[Electroshock Arm]], that have mechanics that differ from its based move, [[Upperdash Arm]], even if only slightly, gives it enough to be its own page. Because it has different mechanics under a different name (Electroshock Arm attacking at a 30-40˚ angle and 1% more damage in comparison to Upperdash Arm), it probably does not need to be compared to former. Like with Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, a move is separated by series even if shared by character from two different series. Like Pikachu and Pichu's [[Thunder (Pokémon)|Thunder]] and Robin's [[Thunder (Pokémon)|Thunder]] being separated. I believe it makes finding the moves easier for people to locate moves if we separate them by their names, with the few exception/examples I explained. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 03:52, May 15, 2019 (EDT)

::::::I avoided talking to much about clones and just kept it to echos in order to avoid the cloneosity debate, but now that youve mentioned it for me youve finally pointed out the elephant in the room that really matters. Blaster (wolf) Is based off of foxes because of wolf's status as a semi-clone. I don't entirely feel like a clones moves should impact the merging procsess because of the general vaugeness of clones, but I feel that it should somewhat factor into it. I have also changed the rules a bit in order to account for clones, and origins. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 5px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 08:02, May 15, 2019 (EDT)

:I feel like that explains quite well. Even regarding the case with Daisy. I wonder if some cases they could be "Peach Blossom and Daisy Blossom are Peach and Daisy's Final Smash", then list "peaches for flowers will fall". Or "Palutena Bow and Sliver Bow are Pit and Dark Pit's neutral special", instead of mentioning the diffident name later. But it is named on the page as such ("Peach/Daisy Blossom", "Peach Blossom/Daisy Blossom") The names of the redirects show up, so don't think it wouldn't be confusing in that case. [[User:Wolff|&#32;Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 22:59, May 12, 2019 (EDT)