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Talk:Tier list/Archive 6: Difference between revisions
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'''TL;DR: Tiers are fact, the Wiki fully supports that fact and won't muddle it up to suggest otherwise, and if anti-tiers want us to treat their side as legitimate, they must provide logical and irrefutable arguments for once.''' <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:57, 31 January 2013 (EST) | '''TL;DR: Tiers are fact, the Wiki fully supports that fact and won't muddle it up to suggest otherwise, and if anti-tiers want us to treat their side as legitimate, they must provide logical and irrefutable arguments for once.''' <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:57, 31 January 2013 (EST) | ||
== A logical and irrefutable (I think) argument for once == | |||
My apologies if all this has been mentioned before, and if it has could you please point me to where it was awnsered and then just forget this whole thing. | |||
I know all the arguments for pro-tiers. I know that on average, Meta Knight is going to beat Ganondorf. Just like he'll beat Zelda, LInk, Captain Falcon, etc. etc. but what are the situations that two players are EXACTLY equal? We also know that a good player will beat a bad one. And we know that a good Ganon will beat a bad Meta Knight. (I know this for a fact: when I played Omega Tyrant about 2 years ago I did'nt get more than 1 stock off every match in a 3-stock game with Meta Knight.) So, tier lists would really have a very small impact on the game, right? Since the Smash Community banned most luck-based things (items, big stages, staes with walls, Final Smashes, 3 or 4 player matches) we should have the better player win. The problem is that all the good, pro-drivin players look at the tier list and instantly choose Meta Knight. | |||
This brings me to my second point: the changes we made. If final smashes were allowed, Ganon, Zelda and Link would be a lot better, while Meta Knight and Ice Climbers, not so much. Big stages would also help out the heavy hitters while hurting the small ones. Stages with walls would give Lucas and Ness huge boosts. And we all know how well Ike does in 4-player matches. It would also hurt Ice Climbers, Olimar, Falco, and most of all, Meta Knight. | |||
My third point is the most effective anti-tier slogan yet. "All the good players look at the tier list, choose high-tiered characters, and get new strategies for them, reinforcing their position on the tier list." I know this is'nt anti-tier, but It makes sence considering the above two points. (I think this has been answered, but I forget where.) | |||
My fourth point is about clones. Clones are slightly different than their origionals, and usually worse, but the still can do something good. For example, even though Falco's gun is better than Fox's, Fox can shoot faster, giving him a higher DPS. (This is also why I'm arguing only in Brawl terms: I don't think Kirby is in any way better than Jigglypuff in SSBM, so there are tiers there. I also know way more about Brawl than the other two, since I own Brawl and have only heard about Melee through guides by pro-tiers.) | |||
My fifth point is about possibility. In Summoner Wars, the board game I stopped coming here for, there are around 100 possible cards in a 35 deck set. Add in Mercenaries (cards that you can add to any deck) the cards are over 150. With that many options, every card has 3 counters, pretty much nullifieng tier lists forever. It would be the same in Brawl if it were'nt for Meta Knight (see point 3), and he even has a even match with Pikachu, who could beat him more on average if point 2 were taken into effect. | |||
My sixth point is about SSB4. All the things we could've done to stop tier lists in Brawl (points 1,2, and 5, and not doing point 3) could stop tier lists in SSB4. I seriously doubt it will work, givin the Prisoner's Dillemma, but we can try. | |||
CONCLUSION: Tier lists would have such a miniscule effect it wouldn't matter if we would just play the game how it was meant to be played. | |||
Thank you. <span style="font-family:Andalus; font-size:12pt">[[User:Meta Ike|<font color="indigo">'''Meta''' </font>]] [[User talk:Meta Ike|<font color="purple"> '''Ike'''</font>]]</span> [[File:MetaIke.png|34px]] 11:18, 28 June 2013 (EDT) | |||