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Talk:Tier list/Archive 8: Difference between revisions
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{{archive | {{archive}} | ||
==Master Hand== | ==Master Hand== | ||
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==SSB4 tier list== | ==SSB4 tier list== | ||
The tier for ssb4 was made on smashboards. http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-version-1-0-finished-time-for-a-break.379736/ <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Wintermelon43|Wintermelon43]] ([[User talk:Wintermelon43|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wintermelon43|contribs]]) 16:23, March 26, | The tier for ssb4 was made on smashboards. http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-community-voted-tier-list-version-1-0-finished-time-for-a-break.379736/ <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Wintermelon43|Wintermelon43]] ([[User talk:Wintermelon43|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wintermelon43|contribs]]) 16:23, March 26, 2015</small> | ||
:[[Template talk:SSB4Tiers|We've already discussed this]]. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:25, 26 March 2015 (EDT) | :[[Template talk:SSB4Tiers|We've already discussed this]]. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:25, 26 March 2015 (EDT) | ||
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==NEW MELEE TIERS LIST== | ==NEW MELEE TIERS LIST== | ||
This tiers list was made over the course of 12 days with the help of redditors /u/scrubjr /u/scrubers /u/ReinDance /u/A_Waskawy_Wabit /u/Pokepen /u/Thebestaround555 /u/goatlink /u/my-name-is- /u/seanbeanskiller /u/spectremagic /u/upvotegod98 /u/vexoskeleton [http://i.imgur.com/X8cbPJD.png Here it is.] '''Text version:''' Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik | Puff, Captain Falcon, Peach | Ice Climbers, Samus, Pikachu, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Yoshi | Ganondorf, Mario, Young Link, Link, Donkey Kong | Mr. Game & Watch, Roy, Ness, Pichu, Mewtwo, Zelda, Kirby, Bowser. | This tiers list was made over the course of 12 days with the help of redditors /u/scrubjr /u/scrubers /u/ReinDance /u/A_Waskawy_Wabit /u/Pokepen /u/Thebestaround555 /u/goatlink /u/my-name-is- /u/seanbeanskiller /u/spectremagic /u/upvotegod98 /u/vexoskeleton [http://i.imgur.com/X8cbPJD.png Here it is.] '''Text version:''' Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik | Puff, Captain Falcon, Peach | Ice Climbers, Samus, Pikachu, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Yoshi | Ganondorf, Mario, Young Link, Link, Donkey Kong | Mr. Game & Watch, Roy, Ness, Pichu, Mewtwo, Zelda, Kirby, Bowser. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Scrubjr|Scrubjr]] ([[User talk:Scrubjr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scrubjr|contribs]]) 01:22, 26 October 2015 (EDT)</small> | ||
:We report tier lists from one source only: [[SBR]] [[User:Serpent King|<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px; color:rgb(220, 85, 0); text-shadow:0px 0px 3px DarkGray;">Serpent<span style="font-size:12pt;>∞</span>King</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent King|(<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px;">talk</span>)]] 01:22, 26 October 2015 (EDT) | :We report tier lists from one source only: [[SBR]] [[User:Serpent King|<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px; color:rgb(220, 85, 0); text-shadow:0px 0px 3px DarkGray;">Serpent<span style="font-size:12pt;>∞</span>King</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent King|(<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px;">talk</span>)]] 01:22, 26 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
::But Smash Backroom was closed. | ::But Smash Backroom was closed. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Scrubjr|Scrubjr]] ([[User talk:Scrubjr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scrubjr|contribs]]) 01:28, 26 October 2015 (EDT)</small> | ||
:::Right. We still are not taking tier lists from outside sources though. Just the way it is for the time being. Also, please remember to sign your comments. [[User:Serpent King|<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px; color:rgb(220, 85, 0); text-shadow:0px 0px 3px DarkGray;">Serpent<span style="font-size:12pt;>∞</span>King</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent King|(<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px;">talk</span>)]] 01:28, 26 October 2015 (EDT) | :::Right. We still are not taking tier lists from outside sources though. Just the way it is for the time being. Also, please remember to sign your comments. [[User:Serpent King|<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px; color:rgb(220, 85, 0); text-shadow:0px 0px 3px DarkGray;">Serpent<span style="font-size:12pt;>∞</span>King</span>]] [[User talk:Serpent King|(<span style="font-family:Chiller; font-size:18px;">talk</span>)]] 01:28, 26 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
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I bring this up on the talk page instead of just editing it in for two reasons; I don't pay attention to Smash 4 meta in general, and my primary game revolves around significant balance patches that arrive every 3-6 months. Hell if I know whether or not the patches have shaken things up that much to make a difference. Same goes with whether or not the tier list examples for Smash 4 could still be considered truly relevant, especially with the shake ups in the top 3 placements for the 2016 national tournaments. <span style="font-family:Orbitron">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 22:33, 9 May 2016 (EDT) | I bring this up on the talk page instead of just editing it in for two reasons; I don't pay attention to Smash 4 meta in general, and my primary game revolves around significant balance patches that arrive every 3-6 months. Hell if I know whether or not the patches have shaken things up that much to make a difference. Same goes with whether or not the tier list examples for Smash 4 could still be considered truly relevant, especially with the shake ups in the top 3 placements for the 2016 national tournaments. <span style="font-family:Orbitron">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 22:33, 9 May 2016 (EDT) | ||
:It's still very wordy, but I hope I helped somewhat. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 03:52, 10 May 2016 (EDT) | |||
== Official Brazilian tier list for Smash 4 == | |||
Looks like a <s>[[Back Room]]</s> tier list based on match-ups was created in Brazil. | |||
http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-tier-list-v1-0-competitive-impressions.429826/page-562#post-21346782 | |||
http://1upsmash.com/topic/8580370/1/ | |||
I guess we better create a page, template or whatever like for Melee's Brazilian tier list. And what about [[Template:Infobox Character]]? -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 15:45, 26 July 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Apparently this isn't a Back Room tier list. BR stands for Brazil and Brazil apparently has no Smash 4 Back Room right now. I believe this is official. Is it worthy to be on the wiki? -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 16:31, 26 July 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Official Project M 3.6 Tier list== | |||
The Project M Backroom and PM Underground recently released a second official tier list (as of 21 July 2016) here: http://pmunderground.net/index.php/articles/9-articles/45-introducing-the-new-pmbr-and-pm-tier-list-2. I think we should add a section for Project M, in between Brawl and Smash 4. Project M is, after all, a widely played Smash Bros. game, more widely played than Brawl, which is listed here. [[User:Hydrodynamic|Hydrodynamic]] ([[User talk:Hydrodynamic|talk]]) 23:53, 27 July 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Sorry, no dice. Consensus here is that we only have the main [[Project M]] page and separate character analysis pages, and that's only because it's big. Content pertaining to ''Brawl'' mods, including PM, should not be on other mainspace pages. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 00:09, 28 July 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Bayonetta as an argument for tiers existing== | |||
This part looks a little out of place; I think a better example would be Meta Knight taking so many tournaments in Brawl instead of Bayonetta carrying players. I'm not denying that she was overpowered (she most definitely was better than most characters), but one could deduct that it wasn't her being a better character, just having a ridiculously low skill floor. Meta Knight, on the other hand, still consistently wins tournaments for Brawl. [[User:KuroKagami|KuroKagami]] ([[User talk:KuroKagami|talk]]) 17:41, 4 August 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Another Potential Backroom List== | |||
[http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list-v2-0.440779/#post-21403565 Would this be considered an official list?] [[User:Laniv|Laniv]] ([[User talk:Laniv|talk]]) 14:05, 22 August 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Validity of tier lists on Toon Link...== | |||
I thought discussing this at Toon Link wasn't appropriate, so I'm posting here... | |||
* "In gaming, a tier list is a list that ranks all characters based on the strength of their fighting abilities and their potential to win matches under tournament conditions, '''assuming equal skill on the part of each player'''." | |||
* From [[Toon Link (SSB4)]]: "...since Hyuga has been banned from various tournaments as of EVO 2016 and subsequently announced his retirement from competitive play, '''it is unclear how his absence will affect Toon Link's tier ranking'''. " | |||
Aren't these two statements contradictory? [[Special:Contributions/23.27.245.161|23.27.245.161]] 14:27, 24 September 2016 (EDT) | |||
==Given PGR's authority...== | |||
Shouldn't we use their tier list here instead of the S4BR given it's the most recent one? It also seems to be the most agreeable on given most top players right now think Bayonetta is the best character right now. [[User:Tiers nonexistent|<span style="color:#FF00FF">Beefy Dood</span>]] ([[User talk:Tiers nonexistent|talk]]) 17:10, 26 February 2017 (EST) | |||
:''However, this page discusses the tier lists that the '''Smash Back Room''' have posted. These are accepted by almost every high level player, and as such are important and notable content to this wiki. Discussion on this talk page should be limited to the content of the page, not to debate on the ordering of tiers, we report the tier lists, we don't decide them.'' | |||
:If the Smash Back Room allows it and makes it official of their own, go ahead, but for years we rely and report what the Smash Back Room makes. PGR's Smash 4 tier list is only their opinion. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Peaceful 18:19, 26 February 2017 (EST) | |||
::But thing is the S4BR list is also an opinion. Shouldn't a newer tier list made by 'the' global ranking system in which it's creators are top players replace the antiquated one? —<font color="Magenta">Beefy</font> (<font color="Purple">Dood</font>) 02:07, 1 March 2017 (EST) | |||
:::S4BR tier lists are compiled by numerous top-level players and the Smash community, including SmashWiki, considers them as the most reliable tier lists to look to. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The SNES 10:45, 10 March 2017 (EST) | |||
::::PG also has top players voting for its lists, namely {{Sm| iStudying}} and {{Sm| Mr. R}}. Because of PG's increasing reputation, and because the third and very recent S4BR list is out, should we at least place their list in [[List of SSB4 tier lists (NTSC)]]? —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">Beefy</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">Doodette</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> 18:51, 23 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
With the PGR tier list, from what I seen it mostly just came and went as people ignored it after its horrible methodology got pointed out. To make the tier list, they just had all their panelists rate each character from a scale of 1-10 with no accountability and then averaged the result, while outliers and clear joke votes or votes with heavy bias weren't discounted. This resulted in things like Bayonetta getting #1 on it because one panelist rated Diddy Kong a 4, and then Ganon got rated a few spots higher because a panelist rated him a 10. Even if the community accepted the tier list, the provably terrible methodology behind it would alone be enough to discount it from getting priority coverage here over the Smashboards tier list. | |||
I think it would be ok to make its own separate article about it, but it shouldn't be on the default tier list page. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:12, 25 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
:Yeah, we should. | |||
:Though, the S4BR tier list also involved ''voting'' 1-10 for characters. Also, some people (like ZeRo) don't agree that Diddy Kong is #1. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 03:44, 27 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
::Except as far as things seem, S4BR actually ''does'' take it seriously. I'm not sure why you're being so stubborn about this. Plus, Bayonetta is top tier currently (and most likely will be for the forseeable future), not Diddy, so I don't see how that's relevant here. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 03:46, 27 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
::''"Though, the S4BR tier list also involved ''voting'' 1-10 for characters.''" | |||
::Did you actually [https://smashboards.com/threads/4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list-v3.445995/ read the procedure] of it? They did not do a simple 1-10 voting and then averaging the result system like the PGR tier list. | |||
::''"Also, some people (like ZeRo) don't agree that Diddy Kong is #1.''" | |||
::"Some people" and Zero are irrelevant when the voting of the PGR tier list would have rated him #1 on it if joke votes and outliers were accounted for; no sane player taking it seriously would rate Diddy Kong a 4, and no proper voting system would allow a single joke/outlier vote to tank a character's score enough to single-handily cost them the #1 spot (nor should the reverse situation happen where someone rated Ganon a 10 and single-handily rose him up a few spots). You also seem to like appealing to authority here, yet ignore that the SBR tier list involved voting from top players and other players highly knowledgeable about the game, while unlike the PGR tier list, had a proper methodology behind it and the people behind it taking it seriously. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:03, 27 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
::If you haven't, you should really read the [https://xx.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/5ruzz7/pgrv2_concludes_with_character_tier_list_results/ reddit thread] of the PG tier list, to see indepth how bad the methodology behind it was, the questionable seriousness of those involved with it, and the general community rejection of the tier list. Also I was wrong about Diddy getting a 4, he was given a ''3''. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:21, 27 March 2017 (EDT) | |||
:::The procedure in S4BR isn't as flawed as PG, but is nevertheless unreliable. Some of the jokes I keep hearing around me is that "surely these top players know how to use [[Dr. Mario (SSB4)]] and [[Wii Fit Trainer (SSB4)]]," meaning these players are not qualified to judge other characters since they probably have never used them in a tournament setting. | |||
:::But, the point here isn't to discredit anyone's opinion on the tier list, criticize the algorithm used in grading these characters, or to be "stubborn about this" (as DisasterFlare put it). The point is that we have to look at these lists objectively (even if we disagree with them) and place them somewhere in this this Wiki because, as of now, we're an official wing of Smashboards, or rather, we are the talking heads of top players' opinions. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 19:49, 3 April 2017 (EDT) | |||
::::"''Some of the jokes I keep hearing around me is that "surely these top players know how to use [[Dr. Mario (SSB4)]] and [[Wii Fit Trainer (SSB4)]]," meaning these players are not qualified to judge other characters since they probably have never used them in a tournament setting."" | |||
::::Some people disagreeing with certain characters' placement doesn't equal an flawed methodology, there's gonna be people disagreeing with something of any tier list possible, especially in Smash 4 where every lower tier character has some group of people swearing them to be underrated. That is pure subjectivity, and those cited characters don't even have anything obvious that show their placements to be unfounded. | |||
::::"''The point is that we have to look at these lists objectively''" | |||
::::Looking at the tier lists objectively shows the PGR tier list to be a joke, there is nothing subjective about the terrible methodology behind it, and there is nothing subjective about how the community rejected it. | |||
::::"''because, as of now, we're an official wing of Smashboards, or rather, we are the talking heads of top players' opinions.''" | |||
::::The wiki reports on the Smashboards tier list as the authoritative source because of one, the Smash Back Rooms have consistently put out the most credible tier lists with both a respectable authority and solid methodology behind them, and two, the Smashboards tier list is the most generally accepted tier list among the community. If the PGR were to put out a new list with a proper methodology behind it and picks up serious traction among the community, then we can start talking about which tier list to put on this page. Until then, it can be relegated to its own article separate from this page. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:45, 3 April 2017 (EDT) | |||
== [Formerly the April Fools Success or Failure Discussion] == | |||
If it was a failure, what could I have done to make it better? That way, I can step it up a notch for next year's April Fools by doing something asanine. Also, what was the best part about the edits to the page? I'd like to know, really. [[User:Enigma|Enigma]] ([[User talk:Enigma|talk]]) 15:04, 2 April 2017 (EDT) | |||
:Why talk about it on here? If you want to talk about improving April Fools' for next year, take it to [[SmashWiki talk:April Fools']]. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 15:10, 2 April 2017 (EDT) | |||
::Huh, I never saw that there was an April Fools Talk. Well, I might end up trying to think of a different topic we could talk about. Thanks. [[User:Enigma|Enigma]] ([[User talk:Enigma|talk]]) 08:30, 3 April 2017 (EDT) | |||
==FAQs== | |||
Since this page is starting to grow in size with various statements, why don't we add a FAQs section to it, or even create its own separate page? Newcomers being deluded into tier lists can then come and refer to it here so they know what these lists are and what they aren't. For example, briefly explain they were not meant to predict tournament wins or that skill can be in fact a much better factor than character choice. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 21:04, 24 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
:Ignoring your questionable stance and ethics when it comes to covering tiers (no one cares that you think newcomers are deluded, we're an encyclopedia, not an editorial), I don't see a need to include an FAQ page; the opinions of SmashWiki editors would potentially start to show in it, and it sets a bad precedent, as no other article on SmashWiki features such an FAQ. | |||
:As for your suggestions regarding explanations for what tiers are and aren't, be bold and add it to the page. If it rocks, people will add onto it, if it sucks, it'll get deleted and someone is going to explain what you did wrong. And if you don't think you can pull it off all at once, try creating a draft on your userpage like I've done for the past 9ish years. If it rocks, people will tell you why, if it sucks, people will tell you why. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qHioAexrfU Just go for it!!] | |||
:--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>, 16:06, 27 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
::Cool. | |||
::Now that that's out of the way, how come there is an opinion piece being advertised here? That looks more like an editorial. That's why I think it should be in its own "See also" section, because it's still useful. Some pages on Wikipedia also have useful essays in the main space but aren't being treated like fact, but rather as a guide to what one should believe. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 19:21, 27 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
:::Frankly, it's not an opinion piece at this point. The overwhelming bulk of evidence supports tiers as existing, and as the essay covers the existence of tiers, it makes the most sense for it to be linked under that specific section. | |||
:::--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>, 21:50, 27 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
:::Tier lists exist, and are valid for the scope that they represent. An argument that supports it would only help back up the fact that they exist. | |||
:::"But random user on the internet, tiers aren't legit!" | |||
:::'''Yes they are'''. Hillary lost, get over it. [[Special:Contributions/74.82.35.43|74.82.35.43]] 21:44, 27 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
::::I understand you mean well, but can you please leave politics out of it? Or at the very least, avoid being so obtuse? | |||
::::--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>, 21:50, 27 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
:::::One thing that I think is odd is that this is pretty much the only page on the wiki that links to a userspace page (the treatise, obviously). That's always irked me and it comes off as a bit unprofessional and inconsistent. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">HUAH!</span>]]</b> 22:31, 27 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
::::See, that's the thing. Game imbalances in mechanics and movesets in games like this one and Street Fighter causes some characters to be perceivably better than others. That's what tiers are. But while the work "Treatise on the Existence of Tiers" deals with a subject that virtually all of us see as true, it is so highly opinionated (its condescending tone attests to this) it doesn't belong in the mainspace. The fact that the work is almost entirely made up of counterarguments to anti-tiers makes it an opinion. The section on this page "Existence of tiers" is already pretty persuasive but that's a lot more neutral than having something as unprofessional as having an essay in the mainspace. | |||
::::Besides, if we were to move it to the "See also" section it's probably not going to damage its visibility or credibility. Or at least I notice what's in these sections. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 00:40, 28 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
To answer the original question: A "FAQs" section doesn't fit in an encyclopedia, and it would just duplicate the information already on the page. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Breegull 06:25, 28 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
:Yeah, this has been addressed. Now it's more whether the essay belongs in its own section given it's more subjective. —[[User: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Magenta">S+ Tier</font>]] ([[User talk: Tiers_nonexistent|<font color="Purple">List</font>]]) <font color="Aqua">|</font> [[File:Isohunt.jpg|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Tiers_nonexistent|Look what I've done!!!]] 00:41, 29 June 2017 (EDT) | |||
== SSB4 tier list renders == | |||
Can we please use the official character renders instead of the ugly, hard-to-read, unofficial screenshot portraits? [[User:MassiveheroSoccerguy|MassiveheroSoccerguy]] ([[User talk:MassiveheroSoccerguy|talk]]) 09:58, 10 August 2017 (EDT) | |||