Talk:Character matchup (SSBB): Difference between revisions

I don't have access to the character head symbols (unless they're hidden in this wiki somewhere), but I can add in the icons. They'd have to be pretty small, though: [[Image:Icon-metaknight.gif|20px]][[Image:Icon-snake.gif|20px]][[Image:Icon-falco.gif|20px]] Is that good enough? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 18:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I'll be the first to offer up my opinion and say: MY EYES. I'm not exaggerating when I say the colors are painful to look at. Can the colors be toned down? Also, the page stretch is pretty bad, even with my widescreen set-up. It's bound to be even worse on smaller/narrower screens. Can it be changed again? Simpler = better! [[Image:SDFnW_SmashWiki_sig.gif]] -  <small>([[User:Silverdragon706|U]] • [[User talk:Silverdragon706|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|C]] )</small> 09:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:I've faded the row colours, that should look less cringe-worthy. But are you suggesting that using a single image instead of a dynamic table takes up less space on a page? The [:Image:Matchup.jpg|original matchup image]] is about the same size as the table, and the [:Image:Match-upcharttier-8.jpg|more recent one] is a decent amount bigger. So to me, horizontal stretch is inevitable for this page. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] <choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose> 12:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

In  my opinion, I think the rows need to be a little bit bolder, or just pure black as opposed to the Cyan and Black. But, as much as I like the current one, [:Image:Matchup.jpg|this one ''does'' look a bit better and easier to look at.]] '''--[[User:The blue blur|<b><span style="color:darkblue">~The Blue</span></b>]]<b>[[User talk:The blue blur|<span style="color:purple"> Blur~</span>]]</b>^{[[Special:Contributions/The blue blur|<span style="color:">New main in training!</span>]]} 13:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:Still harsh on the eyes. Why not a simple alternation of grey and white columns/rows? [[Image:SDFnW_SmashWiki_sig.gif]] -  <small>([[User:Silverdragon706|U]] • [[User talk:Silverdragon706|T]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silverdragon706|C]] )</small> 22:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

:The mirror numbers are actually based on two seperate think tanks, which I guess should be explained in the article. Take the MK vs. Wario matchup for example. The Wario people at SmashBoards agree amongst themselves that Wario has an even 50:50 matchup with MK, so Wario has a 50 in his MK column. However, the MK mainers think that MK has a slight 55:45 advantage, giving MK a 55 in his Wario column. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

:::That's the best-case scenario, yes, and I would think that it would naturally come to that once the metagame is almost completely stable. However, I think it is unfeasible to forcibly conform it right now, mostly because some matchups have no numerical rating yet. Also, I would argue that the difference between the thoughts of both sides of a matchup is so small (5 points, usually) that it doesn't really matter. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 14:47, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

To be honest this shouldn't even exist yet. Maybe another 6 months and things will look accurate. Uploading a chart that is not complete while full of disagreements between boards on ratios is a very bad thing to do. {{unsigned|121.45.126.206|14:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)}}

:I assmue "the" infinite is powerful enough to alter the matchups significantly, correct? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 14:07, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

:No. There's an outdated Melee one All Characters Match-Up Chart|here, and I don't think people really ever analyzed the 64 matchups. I guess this page is slightly mistitled in that way (having only a a Brawl chart), but realistically most of the Smash Bros. population plays mostly Brawl anyway. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:48, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I think that we should keep this page as a general explanation of what matchups are, but have the matchups for each game on seperate pages (such as [[Character matchups (SSB)]], [[Character matchups (SSBM)]], and [[Character matchups (SSBB)]]). For one thing, if all the matchups were on one page, it'd be ginormous. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 18:22, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

::::[[Tier list]] might actually work well split; you'd have enough room to put all the historical data for each game's development (like making note of the Ice Climber's shot upwards in SSBM when wobbling appeared). But anyway, do you have a particular reason why you really don't like this split? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 02:08, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

::::::I suggested a split because of a few things. Someone elsewhere was wondering about the SSB64 matchups and where to put them. Since the SSBM matchups already had their own article (in a sense), I thought that a split would be the best thing - and in any case, the page had to be renamed at the least ("character matchups" implies either everything at once, or a short explanation followed by links to the specifics, which is more modular and controllable). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 03:32, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

:Because it'll be big. Not big in terms of hard to edit, but big in terms of loading and general visual complexity. Also, why would anyone want to be looking at all three games' matchup charts at once? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 07:27, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

:::[[List of NTSC tier lists]] could frankly do with a split, it's 77,440 bytes long (third-fattest page on the wiki). Putting the three matchup tables together would be a total of 85,948 bytes (5,785 bytes bigger than [[Adventure Mode: The Subspace Emissary]], the second-biggest page), and that's without the page around the tables, which would be another 1,500 or 2,000. This is not chump change, having a page almost triple the recommended size cutoff (32,000) is not worth the trivial benefit of knowing how matchups have changed between games. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 22:22, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

:I take the data for this chart fom a SmashBoards thread, and the guy who does it there blanks matchups discussed in threads that are over a year old. I think it's an good idea, since a year-old matchup ratio is probably no longer accurate. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 21:03, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

:Is that a subtle stab at the current tier list? The table is ordered by the tier list and cannot be edited by IPs, and if there was any vandalism I'd have fixed it already. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 16:06, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

*2 how come for some of the match ups its different even though they are the same thing, such as when you look at zss on meta knight its 60:40 but when you look at meta knight on zss's row its 45:55 {{unsigned|68.89.233.34|20:49, June 9, 2010 (UTC)}}

:Each row is the opinion of that character's subforum on SmashBoards. The ZSS mains think their matchup with MK is 45:55, while the MK mains think it's 60:40. The Sonic mains think their matchup with Sheik is 40:60, while the Sheik mains haven't discussed it yet or aren't in agreement over a rating. Yeah, it's not intuitive, but until the metagame is completely stable there's no real alternative. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

:The matchups listed are the matchup ratios reported by the individual character boards at SWF. Us not having matchups listed here is due to the fact that there are no "official" matchup ratios reported for Zheik (to my knowledge). <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:34, 21 February 2011 (EST)

It specifically says tiers don't affect it, but it's obviously the tier list. It counteracts itself when saying that it does not mean that that will always happen, but it is based on the tier list, which is said to always be accurate, which it's not. {{unsigned|70.247.196.248|11: 32, 12 July 2011 (EDT)}}

:Matchups are based on what the consensus is for each individual matchup, a character's position on the tier list is irrelevant to how well they play against a specific character. Also sign your comments with four tildes <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 11:45, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

Not sure where else to put this, but the matchup icons need to be edited, so they display the proper number (ie +2), rather than an incorrect ratio (ie 6/8). Too many users on the Wiki (which I'm sure apply to readers who don't use Smashboards), are mistaking these for being matchup ratios, when a +2 matchup is not to indicate a matchup with a 6/8 ratio of winning. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 12:47, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

:How many is "too many"? Is there some event that spurred this observation? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The SMASH-GINEER 17:59, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

::General observation since its inception, from what users post on their userpage, and on the IRC. Nearly every user here when referring to matchups, says "6/8", rather than the proper "+2", and seem to think of it is a matchup ratio, rather than realising the number used here is to tell the template what icon to use. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:16, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

:I don't see how the old icons plus the +/- signs would be any different than the current ones in terms of how easy it is to count the signs. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Zesty 20:44, 27 March 2012 (EDT)