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Greatest of all time: Difference between revisions
Added a section about Mew2King. Seems odd to bring up Ken and Hungrybox but not him.
(From what I can gather, both Mang0 and Mew2King have a case for being #1 in 2008, depending on how much you factor in locals. Updated Mang0's bio to reflect this, as well as further clarifying some details such as Armada being #1 in 2011 and 2012, and Mang0 only being top 10 in 2007.) |
(Added a section about Mew2King. Seems odd to bring up Ken and Hungrybox but not him.) |
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A smaller but significant share of the ''Melee'' community argues that {{Sm|Mango}} is the greatest ''Melee'' player of all time. His major accomplishments include first place finishes at {{Trn|EVO 2013}} and {{Trn|EVO 2014}}, matching Armada's record of EVO victories, along with wins at {{Trn|Pound 3}}, {{Trn|GENESIS}}, {{Trn|The Big House 4}}, and {{Trn|Get On My Level 2019}}. | A smaller but significant share of the ''Melee'' community argues that {{Sm|Mango}} is the greatest ''Melee'' player of all time. His major accomplishments include first place finishes at {{Trn|EVO 2013}} and {{Trn|EVO 2014}}, matching Armada's record of EVO victories, along with wins at {{Trn|Pound 3}}, {{Trn|GENESIS}}, {{Trn|The Big House 4}}, and {{Trn|Get On My Level 2019}}. | ||
Mango was considered a top-ten player | Mango was considered a top-ten player in 2007, and has since remained as a top five player from 2008 to the present, aside from a period in 2010-2011 where he [[sandbagging|sandbagged]] as Scorpion Master. He was considered one of the two best players in the world in 2008, and the undisputed best player in the world from 2009-2010 and 2013-2014. He was ranked 1st on the 2013 and 2014 SSBMRank. | ||
Supporters of Mango cite his greater longevity compared to Armada with his peaks being just as dominant, if not greater than, Armada's (for example, winning back-to-back EVOs which no other player has done), They also argue that he was able to achieve number one in the world using three different characters (Jigglypuff, Falco, and Fox), all with different playstyles. Mango is often seen as the most influential and recognizable ''Melee'' player, as he popularized a highly aggressive and read-based style of play with his space animals, which made him a fan favorite at tournaments, and he boasts the largest [[Twitch]] following out of any ''Melee'' player; he is often regarded as the "protagonist" of ''Melee''.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://bignokh.com/2018/03/16/the-top-100-melee-players-of-all-time-the-final-five|title="The Top 100 Melee Players of All-Time: The Final Five"}}</ref>, Mango is commonly nicknamed "the GOAT" or "ManGOAT," even by players who consider Armada the greatest of all time. | Supporters of Mango cite his greater longevity compared to Armada with his peaks being just as dominant, if not greater than, Armada's (for example, winning back-to-back EVOs which no other player has done), They also argue that he was able to achieve number one in the world using three different characters (Jigglypuff, Falco, and Fox), all with different playstyles. Mango is often seen as the most influential and recognizable ''Melee'' player, as he popularized a highly aggressive and read-based style of play with his space animals, which made him a fan favorite at tournaments, and he boasts the largest [[Twitch]] following out of any ''Melee'' player; he is often regarded as the "protagonist" of ''Melee''.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://bignokh.com/2018/03/16/the-top-100-melee-players-of-all-time-the-final-five|title="The Top 100 Melee Players of All-Time: The Final Five"}}</ref>, Mango is commonly nicknamed "the GOAT" or "ManGOAT," even by players who consider Armada the greatest of all time. | ||
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Both Armada and Mango have publicly commented on the GOAT debate. Armada has referred to himself as the GOAT on Twitter multiple times since 2018.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1077337302773444608|title=Armada's GOAT tweet (2018)}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1136024842766114818|title=Armada's GOAT tweet (2019)}}</ref> In October 2020, Armada and Mango both replied to a Tweet posted by {{Sm|Tafokints}} discussing the GOAT of ''Melee''.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/tafokints/status/1318238704570310656|title=Tafokints' tweet}}</ref> Armada replied to the Tweet first, arguing in favor of his GOAT status, citing his winning record over the rest of the top six, better placements at events the two both attended and having never placed below 5th at any tournament.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1318244958835527683|title=Armada's tweet #1}}</ref> Mango argued that Armada was only ranked number one for two years (2015 and 2016), and even then, Mango boasted a winning record over him in 2016. He argued that his performance was superior to Armada's before 2012 and that his consistent performance did not necessarily translate into dominance,<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1318251406428499973|title=Mango's tweet #2}}</ref> suggesting that he could have been declared the undisputed GOAT if he chose to retire in 2015.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1318264769825054721|title=Mango's tweet #3}}</ref> He also added, "At the end of the day it's dumb to discuss whos<!--sic--> the goat when we're only halfway thru the movie... There's so much more m<!--sic-->elee to be played."<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1318253166161399809|title=Mango's tweet #4}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://dotesports.com/fgc/news/armada-or-mang0-super-smash-bros-melee-community-debates-best-player-ever|title="Armada or Mang0: Super Smash Bros. Melee community debates best player ever"}}</ref> | Both Armada and Mango have publicly commented on the GOAT debate. Armada has referred to himself as the GOAT on Twitter multiple times since 2018.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1077337302773444608|title=Armada's GOAT tweet (2018)}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1136024842766114818|title=Armada's GOAT tweet (2019)}}</ref> In October 2020, Armada and Mango both replied to a Tweet posted by {{Sm|Tafokints}} discussing the GOAT of ''Melee''.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/tafokints/status/1318238704570310656|title=Tafokints' tweet}}</ref> Armada replied to the Tweet first, arguing in favor of his GOAT status, citing his winning record over the rest of the top six, better placements at events the two both attended and having never placed below 5th at any tournament.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1318244958835527683|title=Armada's tweet #1}}</ref> Mango argued that Armada was only ranked number one for two years (2015 and 2016), and even then, Mango boasted a winning record over him in 2016. He argued that his performance was superior to Armada's before 2012 and that his consistent performance did not necessarily translate into dominance,<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1318251406428499973|title=Mango's tweet #2}}</ref> suggesting that he could have been declared the undisputed GOAT if he chose to retire in 2015.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1318264769825054721|title=Mango's tweet #3}}</ref> He also added, "At the end of the day it's dumb to discuss whos<!--sic--> the goat when we're only halfway thru the movie... There's so much more m<!--sic-->elee to be played."<ref>{{cite web|url=https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1318253166161399809|title=Mango's tweet #4}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://dotesports.com/fgc/news/armada-or-mang0-super-smash-bros-melee-community-debates-best-player-ever|title="Armada or Mang0: Super Smash Bros. Melee community debates best player ever"}}</ref> | ||
Smaller groups have also suggested {{Sm|Ken}} and {{Sm|Hungrybox}} as possible outlier candidates. Ken, known today by his nickname "The King of Smash", is considered the undisputed best player of the [[Super Smash Bros. Melee in competitive play|MLG era]] before ''Brawl''{{'}}s release, and was a candidate for best player in the world from 2004 to 2007. During his prime, Ken was considered the best player by a significant margin, winning nearly every event he entered, and dominated competitive ''Melee'' to a degree far greater than Armada or Mango did during their peaks. However, it is generally agreed that Ken's short longevity at the top diminishes his claim at the GOAT. It has been suggested that Ken competed in a less advanced era of ''Melee'', and that the overall level of competition has greatly improved since his retirement, as evidence by his failure to place top eight at majors during his return to ''Smash'' from 2013-2015. | Smaller groups have also suggested {{Sm|Ken}}, {{Sm|Mew2King}}, and {{Sm|Hungrybox}} as possible outlier candidates. Ken, known today by his nickname "The King of Smash", is considered the undisputed best player of the [[Super Smash Bros. Melee in competitive play|MLG era]] before ''Brawl''{{'}}s release, and was a candidate for best player in the world from 2004 to 2007. During his prime, Ken was considered the best player by a significant margin, winning nearly every event he entered, and dominated competitive ''Melee'' to a degree far greater than Armada or Mango did during their peaks. However, it is generally agreed that Ken's short longevity at the top diminishes his claim at the GOAT. It has been suggested that Ken competed in a less advanced era of ''Melee'', and that the overall level of competition has greatly improved since his retirement, as evidence by his failure to place top eight at majors during his return to ''Smash'' from 2013-2015. | ||
Hungrybox has been considered a top-five player from 2009 until the present and was seen as the undisputed rank one from 2017 to | Mew2King has spent more time than any other player at the top of competition. He has been considered a top 6 player in the world for 13 years straight, longer than anyone else, from 2006 all the way to 2018, while arguably being top 10 in 2019. In 2007, Mew2King was widely considered the best Melee player in the world, being the only player that year to win more than one major tournament. Mew2King has also remained as a contender to win major tournaments in the following years, winning several major tournaments in 2013-2014, and 2016-2018, including {{Trn|The Big House 3}}, {{Trn|Shine 2016}}, and {{Trn|Smash Summit 6}}. | ||
He has largely been credited for advancing the Marth and Sheik metagame to where they nowadays, being the best Marth player in the world from 2007-2013 and 2015-2018, and the best Sheik player from 2008-2017. | |||
However, Mew2King has since failed to replicate his success since 2007, as after getting challenged by Mango for the #1 spot in 2008, Mew2King has never been considered top 2 in the world since, peaking at #3 on the 2013 SSBMrank. He has also spent the shortest time out of everyone as the best player in the world, only from 2007 to arguably 2008. | |||
Hungrybox has been considered a top-five player from 2009 until the present and was seen as the undisputed rank one from 2017 to 2019. Among his major titles is a victory at {{Trn|EVO 2016}}, the [[List of largest Smash tournaments|largest ''Melee'' tournament of all time]]. His {{SSBM|Jigglypuff}} has been responsible for major developments in the ''Melee'' metagame; his dominance caused many to start seeing Jigglypuff as potentially the best character in the game, and many players, most notably Armada, developed secondary characters specifically in an attempt to counter him. However, Hungrybox's reign as a consistent first-place finisher has been relatively short compared to that of Mango or Armada, and his lowest level of play has also been below them; most notably from {{Trn|Apex 2010}} to {{Trn|Paragon Orlando 2015}}, he went nearly five years without placing 1st at a major title. It is often theorized that Hungrybox could become the greatest of all time if he continues to dominate the ''Melee'' scene after several more years of competition. | |||
==="The Top 100 Melee Players of All Time"=== | ==="The Top 100 Melee Players of All Time"=== | ||