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Talk:Tournament rulesets (SSBB): Difference between revisions
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Though from a practical standpoint it would probably be a horrible idea, I think these rulesets should *technically* be mentioned. I personally think they're stupid, but mentioning them might remove possible perceived bias in the article. [[User:Capefeather|capefeather]] ([[User talk:Capefeather|talk]]) 20:03, 28 October 2008 (UTC) | Though from a practical standpoint it would probably be a horrible idea, I think these rulesets should *technically* be mentioned. I personally think they're stupid, but mentioning them might remove possible perceived bias in the article. [[User:Capefeather|capefeather]] ([[User talk:Capefeather|talk]]) 20:03, 28 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
:Everything I've seen from other discussion areas for Smash Bros. utterly rejects the Evo ruleset. Also, as Evo was held before the SBR released this, there is no way of knowing if they would have followed these or not. If the next evo uses their dumb rules, maybe we'll consider mentioning them here. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 22:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC) | :Everything I've seen from other discussion areas for Smash Bros. utterly rejects the Evo ruleset. Also, as Evo was held before the SBR released this, there is no way of knowing if they would have followed these or not. If the next evo uses their dumb rules, maybe we'll consider mentioning them here. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 22:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC) | ||
::Exactly why Brawl isn't played at EVO. [[Special:Contributions/81.141.68.50|81.141.68.50]] 05:13, 3 May 2012 (EDT) | |||
:::Do not comment on years old discussions, especially when you don't have anything new to add to them. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 05:51, 3 May 2012 (EDT) | |||
== "Effective governing body?" == | == "Effective governing body?" == | ||
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:::::OK, now you're just being thick. Just the fact that something exists doesn't make it notable. As defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary, something is notable if it is "remarkable, distinguished and/or prominent." Let me make something painfully clear to you: In the context of Smash rules, you and your rule set are none of the above, ergo, they and you are not notable. You can have whatever problems with these rules that you want, but quite frankly, it's irrelevant. Oh, and as for your comment that the basketball rules aren't "official" either, why do they call the refs "officials" then? [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 11:49, January 20, 2009 | :::::OK, now you're just being thick. Just the fact that something exists doesn't make it notable. As defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary, something is notable if it is "remarkable, distinguished and/or prominent." Let me make something painfully clear to you: In the context of Smash rules, you and your rule set are none of the above, ergo, they and you are not notable. You can have whatever problems with these rules that you want, but quite frankly, it's irrelevant. Oh, and as for your comment that the basketball rules aren't "official" either, why do they call the refs "officials" then? [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 11:49, January 20, 2009 | ||
::::::Actually, I'd say you're the one being thick, but I'm not trying to make this personal. If something exists and has been observed, it has been noted. And if it has been noted, it is distinguished. Therefore, noteworthy (that whole "notability" guideline that threatens to spread through the wikis like a plague will doom them eventually). As for your last question, wow, that's a wonderful attempt to play semantics. They're called officials because they ''officiate''. They enforce the rules that have been agreed on for that game; not universal, completely agreed upon rules. Again: if you want to say they're a largely accepted standard, go ahead, but official they are not. [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] ([[User talk:Thanos6|talk]]) 16:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC) | ::::::Actually, I'd say you're the one being thick, but I'm not trying to make this personal. If something exists and has been observed, it has been noted. And if it has been noted, it is distinguished. Therefore, noteworthy (that whole "notability" guideline that threatens to spread through the wikis like a plague will doom them eventually). As for your last question, wow, that's a wonderful attempt to play semantics. They're called officials because they ''officiate''. They enforce the rules that have been agreed on for that game; not universal, completely agreed upon rules. Again: if you want to say they're a largely accepted standard, go ahead, but official they are not. [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] ([[User talk:Thanos6|talk]]) 16:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::::::Ummmm... I just figured that I'd point out that according to your logic, everyone and everything is distinguished and noteworthy seeing as how everyone and everything "exists and has been observed." Seeing as how the definition of distinguished is "made conspicuous by excellence; eminent; famous," what you're essentially arguing is that everyone is eminent and famous. Indeed, not only that, but that everyone is eminent and famous ''to the same degree'' given that you're arguing that my hypothetical basketball tournament's rules are equal in notability to those of the NBA. Can you see how that logic doesn't really work? If you can't... well... then this is a pointless discussion. – [[User:Defiant Elements|<font color="black">Defiant Elements</font>]] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|<font color=black><small>''+talk''</small></font>]] 18:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC) | :::::::Ummmm... I just figured that I'd point out that according to your logic, everyone and everything is distinguished and noteworthy seeing as how everyone and everything "exists and has been observed." Seeing as how the definition of distinguished is "made conspicuous by excellence; eminent; famous," what you're essentially arguing is that everyone is eminent and famous and made conspicuous by excellence. Indeed, not only that, but that everyone is eminent and famous ''to the same degree'' given that you're arguing that my hypothetical basketball tournament's rules are equal in notability to those of the NBA. By that logic, everyone and everything is as famous, noteworthy, prominent, and distinguished as, to use an example that seems appropriate, Barack Obama. Can you see how that logic doesn't really work? If you can't... well... then this is a pointless discussion. – [[User:Defiant Elements|<font color="black">Defiant Elements</font>]] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|<font color=black><small>''+talk''</small></font>]] 18:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::Yes, you at last understand. I believe that everyone and everything is noteworthy and prominent. Every human being, every animal, every plant, every object that can be proven to exist deserves its own Wikipedia page. Every single set of rules that Smash is played by deserves equal consideration. Wookieepedia, largely regarded as the single best, most successful spinoff Wiki there is, doesn't discriminate by noteworthiness. Why should this one? [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] ([[User talk:Thanos6|talk]]) 22:13, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::Wikipedia, largely regarded as the single best, most successful Wiki there is, discriminates by noteworthiness. Why shouldn't this one? – [[User:Defiant Elements|<font color="black">Defiant Elements</font>]] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|<font color=black><small>''+talk''</small></font>]] 22:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::And if you ever browse the Wikipedia philosophy pages, you'll note that there's a fairly large movement underway to remove that noteworthiness rule, because unlike documentation, noteworthiness is completely subjective (I feel all things that exist are noteworthy. You obviously don't.), and this has caused much strife and even banning over there. Wookiee, on the other hand, has no such rule, and everyone gets along fine. Also note the rise of several Wikipedia mirrors (in particular Wikinfo) that also do away with noteworthiness and aer quickly ascending. Encyclopediae should be objective, not subjective. And my original point still stands; call the SBR rules "widespread" or even "largely accepted" if you wish, but not "official." [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] ([[User talk:Thanos6|talk]]) 22:28, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::Wookipedia really isn't analogous in this case. Wookiepeida deals strictly with a (relatively) well-defined canon, which is to say that all the material that they're dealing is objectively either in a book, movie, game, etc., or it's not, so the standard for notability can afford to be exceedingly clear-cut; it's either in said canon (notable), or it's not (not notable). What that means is that notability is essentially a non-issue on Wookiepedia. SmashWiki, on the other hand, has articles about Crews, Smashers, and Tournaments, which may or may not be notable. – [[User:Defiant Elements|<font color="black">Defiant Elements</font>]] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|<font color=black><small>''+talk''</small></font>]] 22:59, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::Actually, Wookiee does have analogous articles on, for instance, several fans (if you're such a huge fan that Lucasfilm themselves accepts your ideas, you're in, and are treated just like any other creator, like Timothy Zahn etc.). And as I said before, it's my belief that anything that exists is notable. Anyone who's ever played, let them have their own Smasher page. The Three Person Backwoods Middle Of Nowhere Tournament? Sure, add it to the wiki. You can't just assume that your definition of notable applies to everyone else. But at any rate, we're severely digressing, I freely admit. Can we not agree on that "widely acccepted" compromise? [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] ([[User talk:Thanos6|talk]]) 23:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::By definition, rules which are sufficiently "widely accepted" are de facto rules. As such, I've added the phrase "de facto" to the article. As amusing as this conversation is, it's getting old. – [[User:Defiant Elements|<font color="black">Defiant Elements</font>]] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|<font color=black><small>''+talk''</small></font>]] 23:07, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::OK, let's dispense with the notion that philosophical discussions about the definition of a word that might eventually launch a movement to change something constitutes that it is somehow an idea we should follow. There's a "fairly large" movement of people having "philosophical discussions" about why we should supplicate ourselves to the Devil and kill all the chickens in the world. Does that mean that do that on this wiki? Hell no, that's stupid. So just the fact that there is a discussion in no way means that a change to the status quo is necessary. And as for the change in question, it is also stupid. You see, I have three Gatorade bottles sitting on my desk where I compose music. Now, by the guidelines ''that I agree'' with, I am no where near notable enough to consitute a page about me as a composer. But under your standards, not only would I get a page, but ''each of the three Gatorade bottles would also get a page'' as they are notable in that each one was drank while I was writing a different piece of music, each of which would also get a page. All this for some kid living in Iowa City without a degree in anything and no notable contest winnings. Yeah, it's dumb. And, no we can't compromise. You're wrong. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 23:08, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::::Ah, how handy to just dismiss anyone whose opinion you disagree with as wrong. Remember that discussion on your very own talk page? About the NPOV rule and how we're suppose to note the existence of different opinions but not take a side? At any rate, I'm happy to accept DE's edit. [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] ([[User talk:Thanos6|talk]]) 23:11, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::::While Star Wars is an effectively finite universe, with the movies, books, etc., tournaments and combos and smashers are bordering on the (effectively) inifinite. Sorry, we don't care about backwater tournaments or smashers who've never played in a tournament at all. My school had a Smash tournament last year, and guess what? It doesn't have an article. Why? Because '''it's not important to anyone else'''. You're in the minority here, Thanos6, and with a sysop, a bcrat and a rollback'r all disagreeing with you, don't expect the wiki's policy to change in your favor on this point. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="mediumslateblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="mediumslateblue">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="mediumslateblue">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::::CHawk: I fully agree with you when it comes to notability, but adding "de facto" actually has nothing to do with notability; it's merely as opposed to "de jure." And, with that said, no matter how well-accepted the SBR rules are (and I also agree that they're the only particularly notable rules), they're still not de jure, so it's appropriate to label them as de facto. – [[User:Defiant Elements|<font color="black">Defiant Elements</font>]] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|<font color=black><small>''+talk''</small></font>]] 23:17, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::::::No, I don't have to be neutral in my argumentation. We should aim for the writing to be neutral, but it also should be written from a high level. We can argue over if this is actually "official" but I can have my own opinion on it. The fact is that I don't feel that you've provided any arguments to the contrary that I or DE haven't thoroughly debunked. And my argument here isn't based on my "opinion" per se, but on my interpretation of the evidence. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 23:18, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::::@ Miles: Legit point. Feel free to put it back up. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 23:18, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
Since when is there politics in Smash Bros.? i say that if these are the only set of rules, then refer to them if you want. But one can't say that because Pro's use it it's THE rules.s SBR a 'governing body" os Smash? is that morally right? | Since when is there politics in Smash Bros.? i say that if these are the only set of rules, then refer to them if you want. But one can't say that because Pro's use it it's THE rules.s SBR a 'governing body" os Smash? is that morally right? | ||
:What the hell? [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 17:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC) | :What the hell? [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 17:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
== Item Rules == | |||
"Items are turned to off and none." | |||
Isn't this redundant? [[User:Zixor|Zixor]] ([[User talk:Zixor|talk]]) 04:40, 6 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
:No -- with frequency on none, [[Waddle Dee Toss]] can still generate Capsules, [[Vegetable]] can generate Beam Swords, etc. With each item also set to off, there are no items like those -- period. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="firebrick"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="lightcoral">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="lightcoral">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 04:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
It also cancels out the evil Pity final smashes! :D [[Special:Contributions/98.246.22.113|98.246.22.113]] 00:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
:Let's be honest; this is exactly why having a Smash Ball let you use an FS wasn't really the best idea. They could have had it in a similar fashion to the Ultra guage from SFIV, so once you've taken 50% damage, ''then'' you can use your FS. --[[Special:Contributions/92.28.203.65|92.28.203.65]] 06:27, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | |||
::This conversation is years old. Check the date stamp. [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:MatchupUnknown.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 09:26, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | |||
== If time runs out, the winner is determined by stock, and then by percent. == | |||
When time runs out and both players are on the same stock doesn't it go to sudden death to decide the winner? Thats how the game system works doesn't it? Or do you just stop and declare the lower percent person the winner? [[Special:Contributions/60.242.169.170|60.242.169.170]] 18:24, January 30, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:The game goes to sudden death. But whoever has the lower percentage is the winner, regardless of how the sudden death turns out. Think of it this way - in a tournament, shouldn't a tie be broken in a way that involves the players' skill, rather than by a 300% fling that quite honestly is as bad a fair tiebreaking system as overtime in American football? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 18:43, January 30, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::But what happens if they're at the same %? [[Special:Contributions/98.117.158.220|98.117.158.220]] 19:44, January 30, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::I don't know what the official rule is on that, but there are a few options - replay the match, count the sudden death, or just call it a tie. That said, the chances of having two players time out of a tournament match with identical percentage and stock are exceedingly small. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] <small><choose><option>eXemplary Logic</option><option>The Stats Guy</option><option>The Table Designer</option></choose></small> 20:23, January 30, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::Not if neither takes any damage, which can happen a lot. | |||
:::::Improbable. IIRC the rule in the case of equal stock and % is that the players play a two-minute, one-stock match with the same characters on the same stage. But the odds of such an occurrence are incredibly small. [[User:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles.oppenheimer|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 02:09, January 31, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::''If both stock and percentage are identical, or a game ends with both players being KO'd simultaneously (typically because of a Sacrificial KO via Bowser's Flying Slam or Ganondorf's Flame Choke), then a tiebreaker is played. A tiebreaker is a 1 stock, 3 minute match with the same characters and the same stage. The edge grab limit in the tiebreaker is 18 (or 13, for Meta Knight).'' | |||
:::::It was right in the article what happens. And neither player taking any damage at all for a whole 8 minutes is not going to happen under any circumstances unless both players intentionally refuse to attack each other, in which case, the TO would DQ them for stalling. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 10:19, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | |||
::::::This conversation is years old. [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:MatchupUnknown.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 20:33, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | |||
:::::::I know that, when I saw an IP earlier comment on the section above, I thought they created this section here, where a quick glance at the time stamp seemed like it was just posted. Plus, there was that utterly ridiculous comment of neither player taking damage happening a lot :| <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:27, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | |||
::::::::I made that comment years ago, and I've learned better since (though I forgot to sign, so I guess you couldn't tell that it was me). [[User:Mr. Anon|<font color="grey">'''Mr. '''</font><font color="midnightblue">'''Anon'''</font>]][[File:MatchupUnknown.png|23px|link=Special:Random]][[User talk:Mr. Anon|''<span style="color: black;">talk</span>'']] 22:33, 1 November 2011 (EDT) | |||
== Meta Knight BANNED?! == | |||
Why is Meta Knight being banned? --[[Special:Contributions/92.26.219.152|92.26.219.152]] 02:55, 18 November 2011 (EST) | |||
:Read [[Meta Knight (SSBB)#Banning of Meta Knight|here]]. I'll warn you now however, do not argue his banning here. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 03:58, 18 November 2011 (EST) | |||
== One stock ruleset == | |||
How much does it differ from this one? Either way, it needs to be covered or at least mentioned, but should it have its own page? - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 14:39, 11 May 2014 (EDT) | |||
:The usage of a one-stock ruleset is heavily limited to side-events and the TOs usually take very creative liberties with the rulesets for such matches. Some tournaments flat out banned MK and IC while others just add or limit stages to balance out the characters. Its rising popularity could easily just be a fad, but noting the presence of one-stock match popularity should be mentioned on another page. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 15:33, 11 May 2014 (EDT) | |||
== Controller ports? == | |||
Wouldn't this only apply to Gamecube controllers? Or does it refer to the four color-coded boxes that appear on the bottom half of the character select screen? (I've never played in a Smash Bros. tournament, but for Brawl, I use the Nunchuk control scheme, so I wouldn't need a controller port.) Or is using something other than a Gamecube controller so rare that it's never come up in the rulings? [[Special:Contributions/108.23.67.187|108.23.67.187]] 12:47, 4 November 2014 (EST) | |||
:At tournaments, people mostly use GC controllers because of the supposed lag of using other controllers. {{s|user|PikaSamus}} ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) [[File:PikaSamusSig.png|12px|link=Special:Contributions/PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] 13:22, 4 November 2014 (EST) | |||
:: All right. I thought it was out of tradition; I used the Gamecube controller for Melee (obviously) but stayed away from it for the entirety of Brawl. Since the Wii U does not have any wired ports, does this also mean that SSBB tournaments are played predominantly on the Wii and that playing on the Wii U is discouraged? [[Special:Contributions/108.23.67.187|108.23.67.187]] 04:09, 10 November 2014 (EST) | |||
== Bridge of Eldin == | |||
Can someone confirm that this stage is indeed legal in Japanese doubles tournaments? Seems odd that the MOST restrictive ruleset would allow a BANNED stage as a doubles counterpick. [[Special:Contributions/149.150.236.196|149.150.236.196]] 06:58, 21 October 2015 (EDT) | |||