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Forum:Characters that should have been in Brawl: Difference between revisions
Forum:Characters that should have been in Brawl (edit)
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I think there are characters that should have been playable in Brawl. My list of characters is Ridley, Bowser Jr, Mewtwo(would have been a better character), Megaman, King.K Rool, Porky Minch, and Miis(could have used eqiupment from Wii Sports and Wii Play, such as boxing gloves). [[User:Dark Overlord|Dark Overlord]] 00:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC) | I think there are characters that should have been playable in Brawl. My list of characters is Ridley, Bowser Jr, Mewtwo(would have been a better character), Megaman, King.K Rool, Porky Minch, and Miis(could have used eqiupment from Wii Sports and Wii Play, such as boxing gloves). [[User:Dark Overlord|Dark Overlord]] 00:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC) | ||
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:Great, but did you have to put the entire moveset ''here''?'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 23:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC) | :Great, but did you have to put the entire moveset ''here''?'''[[User:Smorekingxg456|<span style="color:#5F9EA0">Smoreking</span>]]<small><sup>[[User Talk:Smorekingxg456#Top|<span style="color:#00FF00">(T)</span>]]</sup></small><small><sub> [[Special:Contributions/Smorekingxg456|(c)]]</sub></small>''' 23:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
::Yes (thanks to my genius ideas lol). I palyed Daytona USA for the Dreamcast and Daytona USA 2 Power Edition. I'm having a hard time what does the Hornet's engine sound like when I paly Daytona USA 2 arcade game. [[User:JMBZ-12|JMBZ-12]] ([[User talk:JMBZ-12|talk]]) 00:56, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | ::Yes (thanks to my genius ideas lol). I palyed Daytona USA for the Dreamcast and Daytona USA 2 Power Edition. I'm having a hard time what does the Hornet's engine sound like when I paly Daytona USA 2 arcade game. [[User:JMBZ-12|JMBZ-12]] ([[User talk:JMBZ-12|talk]]) 00:56, 26 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
What would be the series symbol? And if it's the hood thing, I thought it was the head sprite. [[User:King KirbyD|King KirbyD]] ([[User talk:King KirbyD|talk]]) 01:42, 1 April 2012 (EDT) | |||
== New Character == | == New Character == | ||
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::::::Now just to clarify, I don't believe that any of the characters I mentioned other than Jigglypuff shouldn't have been included (though I'm borderline with the Ice Climbers). I believe Sheik did deserve to be in ''Melee'' but Zelda could have most certainly fought without her. Would it be too difficult to give Zelda a different down b special? Like I said before, a character's significance is more important than popularity. While the Japanese may like Jigglypuff for reasons I don't understand, it is not significant in the games in any way, shape, or form. Thus, it should be removed in the next game (especially if you're correct about it being originally a joke character) and Mewtwo should be brought back, with the correct statistics (his false weight in ''Melee'' was such a abomination by the developers). While I agree that Waluigi shouldn't be included since he has yet to appear in a Mario game that is not a spinoff. I don't agree with your stance about the Pokemon, the pokeball item should have nothing to do with a Pokemon's inclusion as a playable character. As such, as long as a Pokemon is legitimate, its inclusion is justified. The same goes for third parties characters, as long as they're significant and popular enough, I have no problem with their inclusion. Also, I don't believe a "damsel in distress" role is important. On a final note, don't act like you know the exact reasons about why each playable character got included and why the removed characters were omitted as you were not part of the ''SSB'' development team. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 00:45, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ::::::Now just to clarify, I don't believe that any of the characters I mentioned other than Jigglypuff shouldn't have been included (though I'm borderline with the Ice Climbers). I believe Sheik did deserve to be in ''Melee'' but Zelda could have most certainly fought without her. Would it be too difficult to give Zelda a different down b special? Like I said before, a character's significance is more important than popularity. While the Japanese may like Jigglypuff for reasons I don't understand, it is not significant in the games in any way, shape, or form. Thus, it should be removed in the next game (especially if you're correct about it being originally a joke character) and Mewtwo should be brought back, with the correct statistics (his false weight in ''Melee'' was such a abomination by the developers). While I agree that Waluigi shouldn't be included since he has yet to appear in a Mario game that is not a spinoff. I don't agree with your stance about the Pokemon, the pokeball item should have nothing to do with a Pokemon's inclusion as a playable character. As such, as long as a Pokemon is legitimate, its inclusion is justified. The same goes for third parties characters, as long as they're significant and popular enough, I have no problem with their inclusion. Also, I don't believe a "damsel in distress" role is important. On a final note, don't act like you know the exact reasons about why each playable character got included and why the removed characters were omitted as you were not part of the ''SSB'' development team. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 00:45, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
::::::::I did not mean to act as if I knew more than anyone else. As smash fans, we can only speculate. However, my stance on third parties is because SSB was originally meant as a competition between '''nintendo''' characters. Allowing too many third parties will create a slippery slope, and before you know it there will be more third parties than regular guys. Jigglypuff may not have as large of a role in the pokemon games as Mewtwo, for example, but she is notably famous universally as the "cutest" pokemon. She also has the reputation of looking weak and innocent. In fact, many pokemon fans say phrases like "that's so weak Jigglypuff could beat it". Jigglypuff is also notable for its infamous sing move, which is most notable in the Anime. I agree that Mewtwo should be brought back, but most pokemon serve best as an item. For example, Pichu is just a weaker version of Pikachu, hence it was removed in Brawl. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 01:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ::::::::I did not mean to act as if I knew more than anyone else. As smash fans, we can only speculate. However, my stance on third parties is because SSB was originally meant as a competition between '''nintendo''' characters. Allowing too many third parties will create a slippery slope, and before you know it there will be more third parties than regular guys. Jigglypuff may not have as large of a role in the pokemon games as Mewtwo, for example, but she is notably famous universally as the "cutest" pokemon. She also has the reputation of looking weak and innocent. In fact, many pokemon fans say phrases like "that's so weak Jigglypuff could beat it". Jigglypuff is also notable for its infamous sing move, which is most notable in the Anime. I agree that Mewtwo should be brought back, but most pokemon serve best as an item. For example, Pichu is just a weaker version of Pikachu, hence it was removed in Brawl. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 01:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::I don't see how adding a few third party characters is going to lead to 36 third party characters so I still disagree with you about them. I never heard '''anywhere''' that Jigglypuff is the "cutest" pokemon. I also never heard the phrase "that's so weak Jigglypuff could beat it". Magikarp has the image of being the weakest pokemon, '''not''' Jigglypuff. Also, Jigglypuff '''is not''' the only pokemon that can learn sing, there are 18 other pokemon that can learn it. Don't even bring up its annoying and pointless role in the horrible anime, that should have '''nothing''' to do with Jigglypuff becoming a smasher. When it comes to a character becoming a smasher, all other media outside of video games should not be factored in to a character becoming a smasher. As such, Jigglypuff should have '''never''' been in the first ''SSB'' game and she shouldn't be brought back in the next '''SSB''' game. Also, I never said that Pichu should be brought back, it was a completely pointless character in ''Melee''. A baby pokemon should ''never'' be a smasher, especially if they're the first stage of a existing pokemon that's a smasher. In fact, any inferior version of any character is pointless. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 04:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::How can you ignore the Anime? That's the only reason Pikachu is even in the series. If you're talking about Jiggly being cute, there's the [http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Jigglypuff Pokemon wiki] itself. Sing may be learnable by other Pokemon, but Jigglypuff is by far the most famous f them. Again, Jigglypuff is very popular in Japan. About 3rd parties, perhaps I was exaggerating, but there should be no more than 2 new third parties in the next smash game. Again, SSB was meant for '''Nintendo's''' stars to fight, not every video game main character. Characters that have nothing to do with Nintendo at all (Sonic's past rivarly with the company for example) should not be included. For this reason Pac Man is a good choice, as he has appeared in many games, not just ''Pac Man'', and some of these were indeed designed by none other than nintendo itself. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 05:27, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::The anime has no impact on the ''Super Smash Brothers'' franchise whatsoever, contrary to popular belief. Pikachu is in all of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games because he is Pokemon's Mascot, and ranks high in popularity, up with Mario and Link. Before the [[Star KO]] is brought up, I'll have you know that the star KO is common in all forms of Japanese media, not just anime. I agree with Omega Tyrant in that third party characters aren't a bad idea, but I also agree with Mr. Anon in that they need to be kept to a minimum. I only know one other third party character fit for the roster, and that's Banjoe Kazooie. Mr. Anon also has points in that Pokemon that are popularly commonplace in Japan are more likely to appear in the Super Smash Bros. games, and it is not because of the anime. Please keep this in mind. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#00008B">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 06:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::Uh, it doesn't say anywhere in that article that Jigglypuff is considered the "cutest" pokemon. It also doesn't say it in Jigglypuff's article on Bulbapedia[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Jigglypuff_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29], a vastly superior Pokemon Wiki. I can't possibly see how you think a pokemon being considered "cute" justifies it being a smasher. A character being included just because they "sing" is also completely ridiculous. The anime should not be taking into consideration at all, ''Smash Brothers'' is a game about video game characters, not anime or any tv show characters. As such, media outside of video games should not be considered when considering a character for Smash Brothers. The anime is also not the only reason that Pikachu was included in the "Smash" series. In case you didn't notice, Pikachu is the '''mascot''' of Pokemon. While unfortunately, its role in the anime probably did influenced it becoming the mascot for Pokemon, the anime is not the only reason Pikachu was included in the first game. As I have mentioned before but you keep seeming to ignore, significance>popularity. It doesn't matter how popular a character is, if they're not significant at all in their series, they should not be included. Think of it as a math formula where a character's right to be a smasher is this simple equation '''(S5*P2=X)''', whereas S is their significance, P is their popularity, and X is how deserving a chacter is to become a playable character in a ''SSB'' game. Now if a character's popularity rating was 24 while their significance rating was 0, the formula would equal 0, meaning that they don't deserve to be a smasher at all. No matter how high their popularity rating is, if their significance equals 0, the result of the formula will still equal 0. This is how I see it with Jigglypuff. Any popularity it has in Japan shouldn't justify it becoming a smasher when it has absolutely no significance in the Pokemon RPGs. As for the third party characters, I do know that ''SSB'' is a game about competition between Nintendo characters and I should have mention that they should have significance to Nintendo as well as being significant video game characters themselves in my earlier edit. I never said anything about supporting the inclusion of third party characters such as Master Chief, who have no significance with Nintendo. At the very least, a third party character should have appeared in a game for a Nintendo system (such as Snake has for the first two Metal Gear games as well as Twin Snakes for the GCN). In conclusion, I have no problem with significant third party characters who have appeared in games for Nintendo systems being included but I fully believe Jigglypuff should have never been included and thus it should be removed in the next ''SSB'' game. It is not popular as a pokemon outside of Japan and it is one of the least popular characters in ''Brawl'' but most importantly, it has no '''significance''' in the Pokemon RPGs. [[User:Omega Tyrant|Omega Tyrant]] [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 06:47, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | |||
==Doc King's opinions== | ==Doc King's opinions== | ||
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:Doc is not really more popular than Mario, either Y. Link ore Toon Link can make it the next smash game (not both though), I don't think its a good idea to have too many more Sonic characters, but 1 more is OK, I don't know who Geno is, but in any case characters are not decided by what people want. Other than that I agree with your list though. (I loved Mewtwo, he's just so cool). [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC) | :Doc is not really more popular than Mario, either Y. Link ore Toon Link can make it the next smash game (not both though), I don't think its a good idea to have too many more Sonic characters, but 1 more is OK, I don't know who Geno is, but in any case characters are not decided by what people want. Other than that I agree with your list though. (I loved Mewtwo, he's just so cool). [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 23:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC) | ||
::I agree with Mr. Anon, except I think Dr. Mario should be an alternate costume for Mario. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|Dr. Pain 99]] ([[User talk:Dr. Pain 99|talk]]) 00:10, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ::I agree with Mr. Anon, except I think Dr. Mario should be an alternate costume for Mario. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|Dr. Pain 99]] ([[User talk:Dr. Pain 99|talk]]) 00:10, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Why, Doc could just hava a different moveset or we could even just take Mario away and have Doc only. [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 17:51, June 16, 2010 (UTC) | |||
==What T-Bird Thinks!== | ==What T-Bird Thinks!== | ||
I believe the Melee characters should obliviously make their return. There is data on the Brawl disk for Toon Zelda/Sheik, so maybe they add her, playing as them would be kinda cool. Other Sonic characters would've been cool, but Sakurai said no more than 2 3rd party characters. For those of you who want characters like Cloud and Master Chief in Brawl, let me ask you this: Was the character you wanted in Brawl ever on a Nintendo system? They said the characters that were chosen were in the main series of the universe they hail from. [[User:T-Bird|T-Bird]] ([[User talk:T-Bird|talk]]) 02:43, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | I believe the Melee characters should obliviously make their return. There is data on the Brawl disk for Toon Zelda/Sheik, so maybe they add her, playing as them would be kinda cool. Other Sonic characters would've been cool, but Sakurai said no more than 2 3rd party characters. For those of you who want characters like Cloud and Master Chief in Brawl, let me ask you this: Was the character you wanted in Brawl ever on a Nintendo system? They said the characters that were chosen were in the main series of the universe they hail from. [[User:T-Bird|T-Bird]] ([[User talk:T-Bird|talk]]) 02:43, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Well, I wouldn't want Y. Link to return, or Pichu. Dr. Mario maybe, Roy and Mewtwo definitely. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 03:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | :Well, I wouldn't want Y. Link to return, or Pichu. Dr. Mario maybe, Roy and Mewtwo definitely. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 03:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC) | ||
:Toon Zelda/Shiek might have been too much. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|Dr. Pain 99]] ([[User talk:Dr. Pain 99|talk]]) 17:08, June 13, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:Well nintendo should take meta away and replace him with Doc because Meta ruins the whole game one by one and he makes it so that any noob could just use him and spam the tornado over and over again. My main, Dr. Mario should be in more games! [[User:Doc King|Doc King]] ([[User talk:Doc King|talk]]) 17:55, June 16, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::In that case, they should have taken Pikachu out of Melee and Fox, Marth, and Falco from Brawl. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 18:10, June 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Issues with this entire page == | |||
This comment is meant to be in no way opinionated unless otherwise stated later in this. | |||
Now, I can see people who want ridiculous characters, and see people who want the Melee characters, and people who are just being newbish or acting like a troll. | |||
On the subject of Pokemon, it honestly makes sense that the anime DOES, in fact have an impact on the smashers. | |||
*Pikachu is obviously the mascot of Pokemon, and makes sense that the anime has had a significant influence on the popularity. Hell, Pokemon Yellow version was made so people can "Be Ash from the anime". It's hard to deny the anime's influence when Nintendo went as far as making a remake of Red/Blue to follow the anime's storyline. (Team Rocket from the anime, anyone?) | |||
*Jigglypuff AND Mewtwo also follow this. Jigglypuff is popular because of her standing in the anime as "That pokemon that shows up every 5 episodes to put everyone to sleep". Hell, Jiggly even lasted multiple seasons in the anime. | |||
**Before you cry foul, I actually did my research, unlike all of you. [http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/9N3S1hJ/What-is-the-most-popular-pokemon |This poll] shows the results of Jigglypuff being the second most popular Pokemon (among the given choices), behind Pikachu and not counting Other. | |||
*Mewtwo is not nearly as popular as Smashers say he is. I saw him as the incredibly obscure guy in the First Gen. In fact, the first most people heard of him was Pokemon: the First Movie, unless you were lucky like me and bought The Strategy Guide. Note that THE MOVIE IS PART OF THE ANIME. How Mewtwo managed to remain popular until Melee, I'm not sure. Probably was in there just because of that first movie, and that movie was the most popular movie at the time. | |||
*Now, we move to Lucario. Lucario, unlike Mewtwo, is actually popular in today's Pokemon fanbase. I'm not sure if this is the result of the movie or not, but he is pretty popular. | |||
**Again, noting that if the reason Luke got in Brawl is because of the movie, remember that THE MOVIE IS ANIME, and that yes, it does have influence. | |||
Now 3rd party characters is a touchy subject for everyone. In my opinion, there should be a limit of 1 3rd Party character per franchise, but knowing how popular the Sonic Series is getting paired with Mario (Olympic games), it wouldn't surprise me if Knuckles or Tails or Shadow got in. | |||
*Megaman would make a great character in Smash Bros, but Capcom isn't particularly loyal to Nintendo to influence them. | |||
*Anyone from Rare would be a good bet, considering Rare and Nintendo have been making games together for quite awhile (like Donkey Kong Country). I could see someone like BanjoKazooie making an appearance | |||
*Pacman is NOT a good choice. Considering all he can do is eat dots, he has no viable move set, and Atari is pretty separate from Nintendo. | |||
*As a general rule, they should have a home on the systems to stand a chance of being in Brawl. No, Master Chief is not a good choice. | |||
*Geno is from that Square/Nintendo game, Super Mario RPG incase you were wondering. Also, incase you were wondering, he was one of the top Most Wanted characters from Brawl. This might be influenced by internet videos, or perhaps he's actually popular. Nonetheless, if you're expecting a Square character in Smash Bros, hes your best bet. | |||
Now, we still have good Nintendo series Smash Bros has yet to touch on. | |||
*Isaac from Golden Sun would be viable (we know he's still popular because of the E3 Demo he got). He's a good swordman type with the whole Psyonic gimmick | |||
Also, face it, Mario is Nintendo's #1. You can all expect more Mario characters in Brawl. The same can go for Zelda, Pokemon (wether it be Mewtwo again or one of the other 500 pokemon), and Metroid (like Ridley). [[User:KingYoshi|KingYoshi]] ([[User talk:KingYoshi|talk]]) 21:33, June 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:OK Sir, please do some reaserch about Pac Man before you say incorrect stuff about him. Pac Man has appeared in much more games than just his first one, but that game overshadowed the rest. He's appeared in numerous 3d Platformers, such as Pac Man World, where he's exibited many abilities, such as the Rev Role and the Butt Bounce. Furthermore, Pac Man was not made by Atari, one of Nintendo's old rivals, but Namco, which has had a very good relationship with Nintendo. In fact, Shigero Miyamato made one Pac Man game himself, and Pac Man has appeared in several Mario Kart games. I hate to be rude, and the rest of your argument is well done, but please do more research on Pac Man next time. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 06:05, June 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:To sign your forum posts type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, not a name. If you want that name, make an account. [[User:Dr. Pain 99|<span style="color: red;">'''Dr.''' </span><span style="color: orange ">'''Pain''' </span><span style="color: yellow ">'''99''' </span>]] [[File:dp99.png]] [[User talk:Dr. Pain 99| <span style="color:blue">''Talk''</span>]] 21:25, June 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
Done [[User:KingYoshi|KingYoshi]] ([[User talk:KingYoshi|talk]]) 21:33, June 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:First of all, the anime '''should not''' influence who is in a SSB game. Yes it is rather unfortunate that Jigglypuff's role in the anime probably influenced it getting a spot in the first SSB game, but it should not. ''Smash Brothers'' is about video games, not anime. As such, any media outside of video games '''should not''' be considered when including a character for a SSB game. That poll you linked to is highly flawed and I do not trust it. First of all, it doesn't have every pokemon on it. How can you say Pikachu is the most popular pokemon when you didn't even give someone the chance to choose any pokemon they want. Secondly, only a little more than a 1000 people voted on that poll. As such, its results can not be considered the feelings of everyone when it represents a very small minority. Third, the poll mispells one of the pokemon's name, Infernape does not begin with an E, ruining this poll's legitamancy even farther. Also, did you not read what I said about significance > popularity? If a character like Jigglypuff has '''absolutely no''' significance in the games, it does not deserve to be in the Smash Bros. games, no matter how popular it is. It does not matter if a flawed poll of 1000 people said Jigglypuff is second most popular pokemon, Mewtwo is very significant to the games, Jigglypuff is not. I know no one who favorite pokemon is Jigglypuff or anyone that even likes it. Its evolution Wigglytuff is also very unpopular in competitive Pokemon. Mewtwo on the other hand, is not. So in both popularity and more importantly, significance, Mewtwo is much more deserving than Jigglypuff ever was. Just because you saw Mewtwo as "some obscure guy" doesn't mean everyone else does. Also, ''Melee'' came out after the anime was popular and I find it exteremly unlikely that the movie had any thing to do with influencing Mewtwo being in ''Melee''. It is an insult to those who played the Pokemon games that people only know Mewtwo from the movie. '''Everyone''' knew Mewtwo as the god pokemon in generation 1, not as "some obscured guy" from a crappy movie. So don't say that Mewtwo only was in ''Melee'' because of the movie, that is just showing how ignorant you are of its role in the games. Now fully read my last post and don't try to act like a flawed poll disproves my point about Jigglypuff being undeserving to be in the SSB games. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 22:09, June 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::You can say what you want about what "should" constitute what characters are in the game, but none of it matters if those characters aren't popular. The developers are going to put the popular characters in because that's where the money is. Look at Final Fantasy VII. In terms of importance, Vincent was pretty much not. But he was cool, and he was popular, so he got a game. Cait Sith was important, but everyone hated him, so he got shafted with a shitty voice actor in Vincent's game. This is called business. You can think that importance ought to come ahead of popularity, but the fact is it doesn't. And, quite frankly, it shouldn't. Developers should be trying to give consumers what they want, and if Jigglypuff is what they want, go for it. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 22:18, June 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::That can be your opinion on what matters more between significance and importance, but is Jigglypuff as popular as Vincent? Besides not being important in the games at all, I have not seen any proof that Jigglypuff is a popular enough pokemon to be in SSB. To my knowledge, Jigglypuff is also unpopular as a smasher in ''Brawl'', both among casual and competitive smashers. So I highly doubt that Jigglypuff is among the top 10 pokemon among the people's want list and I don't see how including Jigglypuff is going to bring Nintendo more money. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 22:44, June 27, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::The last part of your argument in flawed. Ganondorf and Link are also considered some of the worst characters, but should they be taken out of the next SSB? There are plenty of polls that you can look through, and in all of them Jigglypuff is pretty high. Just because the Anime has influence does not mean that it should be removed. Keep in mind that (to my knowledge) Nintendo has helped make the Anime, and there are plenty of influences to smash that are from TV shows or other non video game stuff (such as MK's final smash, Pikachu, Shadow Ball as Mewtwo's move, Lucario's appearence, etc) [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 06:10, June 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::Why did some new user have to bring this back up? I really hate this debate. Now don't say the last part of my argument is flawed when it is not. Link and Ganondorf aren't insignificant or unpopular in their series. I brought up Jigglypuff's unpopularity as a smasher because a character's popularity as a smash character is probably what got borderline characters such as Sheik and Jigglypuff to return in Brawl (even Falco's popularity could have been what got the developers to bring him back and declone him) and is probably the main reason Mewtwo didn't return. But with Jigglypuff's nerf came the lost of the valuable popularity among competitive players, so for a borderline character such as Jigglypuff, its popularity is important for determining whether or not to bring it back in the next smash game. Now show me these so called polls that shows Jigglypuff is popular, and they better not be flawed like the one KingYoshi linked to. It cannot be a legit poll unless it allows a person to choose any damn pokemon they pleased, not just a select few that are presumed to be "popular". Why do you want the anime to have influence? ''Smash Bros.'' is a game about '''video game characters''', not '''anime characters'''. Therefore, all media outside of video games should not be factor in. Shadow Ball being Mewtwo's move has nothing to do with the anime or movie, he can learn the move in the video games. Stop saying Lucario is only in ''Brawl'' because of some stupid movie. Has it occurred to you that Lucario has some significance in the games as well as popularity? Also, Pikachu is the mascot of Pokemon, so stop saying it is a smasher just because of the anime. Just like Salad told KingYoshi on the IRC, if the anime was so influential, why isn't Meowth a smasher? Very simply, it has not influenced since the first ''Smash Bros.'' nor shall it ever again. There are also very few, if any, references to things outside of video games in ''Smash Bros.'' The only one you listed that is plausible is the naming of Meta Knight's final smash, the rest is you just being highly speculative. So stop trying to defend the anime, it hasn't influenced since the first SSB and it should never. Any one who does believe the anime should be influential is being highly ignorant of the fact that the Pokemon games came first and are far, far, FAR more important than the anime. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 06:49, June 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::Wait a second right there. Pikachu was not the mascot of Pokemon until after the Anime started. Before that, the mascots were Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur. Now, about Mewtwo, yes, he can learn Shadowball, but not naturually. He has to first have a TM or something. About Meowth, he was in fact considered as a character for SSB, but that would have been unfair to all the other series and they didn't have the time. [[User:Mr. Anon|Mr. Anon]] ([[User talk:Mr. Anon|talk]]) 18:26, June 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Who said Mewtwo has to learn Shadowball naturally? Very simply, a pokemon does not need to learn the move naturally to have it as one of their special moves. Look at Pikachu, it can only learn Skull Bash though a TM in Generation 1, yet it has Skull Bash as one of it specials. So your argument about Mewtwo having Shadow Ball only because of the movie fails. Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise were never mascots of the series, they were each a mascot of one of the generation 1 games, not the mascot of the entire series. Its debatable on what made Nintendo decide to make Pikachu the mascot of the series, but the fact is it has been the mascot of the series since generation 1 and therefore its inclusion in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' is based on that, not the anime. Finally, if the anime was so influential, why wasn't Meowth in ''Melee'' instead of Pichu or included in ''Brawl'' instead of the Pokemon Trainer, a character that existed only in the games? Simply, the anime lost any possible influence after the first SSB and the anime has long lost the popularity it had back in the late 90s. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 18:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC) | |||
I also think that they should add dr.eggman from sonic,megaman,bowser jr,waluigi and why not garland and warrior of light from the original final fantasy on nes i whould also love the idea of having lololo and lalala as one playable character like ice climbers oh and remember the little dragon from bust a move why not im also good with that.They should also put the guy from castlevania with is whip i don't remember is name -_- and why not dr.mario if they have toon link thats pretty much like normal link well why not the italian plumming dr. again? Why not daisy. I also understand the lucario thing but i think that they should re add mewtwo. I whould like them to go back to the roots with FF characters,megaman characters lololo and lalala,bust a move's little dragon,castlevania,why not little Mac from punch out!.And in my opinion i would love for them to go back to refreshing new characters like starfy from the legendary starfy on NDS,also all the koopalings as one playable character example when you chose the koopalings you can chose after that wich one you want out of the 7,AiAi from super monkey balls whould be great,oh! and this would be so funny why not one worm from the game worms armageddon.You know who would be great also Earthworm jim,dr.willy from megaman the snowman from clay fighters,King K.Rool donkey kong country's villain,Banjo Kazooie,bomberman,gex from the nintendo 64 system remember the under cover gecko spy well i do and i hope nintendo does too,more characters from sonic:tails knuckles and shadow,medusa from kid icarus,birdo from mario bros 2,Wart the last boss from super mario bros 2 remember the fat toad/frog,little funny but why not paper mario,spyro the dragon,crash bandicoot and finaly the main character from animal crossing?.-Sam the man 12:35 p.m 17/07/2010 <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:173.178.218.137|173.178.218.137]] ([[User talk:173.178.218.137|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/173.178.218.137|contribs]]) 16:34, July 17, 2010 (UTC)</small> | |||