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Talk:List of spirits (disambiguation)/Archive 1 (view source)

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{{archive}}
==Images==
==Images==
As more and more images of Spirits are being uploaded onto SmashWiki, it's probably best if we nip this in the bud as soon as we can.
As more and more images of Spirits are being uploaded onto SmashWiki, it's probably best if we nip this in the bud as soon as we can.
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<gallery>
<gallery>
Charmander.png|''Ultimate'' screenshot
SSBU spirit Charmander.png|''Ultimate'' screenshot
Dream World Charmander.png|Original artwork
Dream World Charmander.png|Original artwork
</gallery>
</gallery>
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I think that there should be a section that shows which spirits can be found in the Adventure Mode: World of Light, and which spirits cannot be obtained there. That way, people who want to get a few spirits before starting World of Light can see which ones aren't found in the adventure mode beforehand. [[Special:Contributions/203.219.10.149|203.219.10.149]] 21:12, 26 December 2018 (EST) {{unsigned|14.200.4.237|22:29, December 24, 2018‎}}
I think that there should be a section that shows which spirits can be found in the Adventure Mode: World of Light, and which spirits cannot be obtained there. That way, people who want to get a few spirits before starting World of Light can see which ones aren't found in the adventure mode beforehand. [[Special:Contributions/203.219.10.149|203.219.10.149]] 21:12, 26 December 2018 (EST) <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:14.200.4.237|14.200.4.237]] ([[User talk:14.200.4.237|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/14.200.4.237|contribs]]) 22:29, December 24, 2018</small>


== Description for spirit characters ==
== Description for spirit characters ==
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There are Spirit Battles that have rules and/or conditions that aren't listed on the preview screen (exemple: in the Fairy Bottle Spirit Battle, Young Link starts the battle with a Fairy Bottle, yet its [http://www.m-games.fr/SSBU/SpiritBattlePreviews/SBP/0184.jpg battle preview] doesn't list that condition). Should we list the untold rules and/or conditions too in the spirit battles? And if so, should we use a way to tag them as "untold" like putting them in italic or something? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 06:39, September 19, 2019 (EDT)
There are Spirit Battles that have rules and/or conditions that aren't listed on the preview screen (exemple: in the Fairy Bottle Spirit Battle, Young Link starts the battle with a Fairy Bottle, yet its [http://www.m-games.fr/SSBU/SpiritBattlePreviews/SBP/0184.jpg battle preview] doesn't list that condition). Should we list the untold rules and/or conditions too in the spirit battles? And if so, should we use a way to tag them as "untold" like putting them in italic or something? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 06:39, September 19, 2019 (EDT)
:Absolutely should be listed; I think even stuff like what items appear matters. I personally don't think we need to specify they're hidden but there's nothing wrong with it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Free 06:46, September 19, 2019 (EDT)
:Absolutely should be listed; I think even stuff like what items appear matters. I personally don't think we need to specify they're hidden but there's nothing wrong with it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Free 06:46, September 19, 2019 (EDT)
== Repurposing the "Series Order" section? ==
Long ago, I separated the spirit battles data from the spirits statistics because the list was way too cramped. Since then, an Inspiration column have been added to the spirit battles array, and, as that column contains a lot of informations, it cramped back that array. So I've been thinking: what about repurposing the Series Order section into an Origin and Inspirations section? Here is the big picture: first the usual 3 identifing columns (number/picture/name), then we move the Origin Game (and artwork) column from the Spirits lists to that new array, of course we keep the Series column, and we end it with an Acquisition Inspiration and the Spirit Battle Inspiration, like this:
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! Image
! Name
! Origin Game
! Origin Series
! Acquisition Inspiration
! Spirit Battle Inspiration
|}
While the Spirit Battle Inspiration will simply be the Inspiration column from the Spirit Battles array, the Acquisition Inspiration will be used to specify if some of the way some spirits are acquired have an actual reason. A few month ago, someone tried to put the reason behind the specific location of a Spirit Battle in WoL, and this column will be the place to put such information, but it will also allow the wiki to explain some enhancement, or why such spirit can be purchased, or summoned. Here are a few exemples of Acquisition Inspirations to help you better picture the use of that column:
*Geno: In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area because, in Super Mario RPG, Geno is a warrior from the stars.
*Mimicutie: In World of Light, her Spirit Battle become available after the player tries to open a fake chest, referencing how Mimicuty tricks people by looking like a chest.
*Zelda (Spirit Tracks): This spirit is enhanced from the Phantom spirit because in Spirit Tracks, Zelda is first introduced as a Phantom ''(I think, but you get the idea)''.
*Poppi α: This spirit is available throught summoning, reflecting how in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 she is a robot created throught science by Tora.
*Aegislash: This spirit is available at Anna's Emporium to reference the fact that it is classified as a Royal Sword Pokémon in the Pokédex.
*Stack-Up: This spirit can exclusively be acquired by purchasing it in a shop, referencing how R.O.B. was initially a real life accessory for the Nes.
*Agitha: This spirit can be obtained by completing the challenge "Collect 10 unique spirits" just like she revolved around collecting insects in Twilight Princess.
So, what do you think? Should we start doing something like that? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 20:22, January 17, 2020 (EST)
:Hmm... I'm not sure. I feel like we don't need to note too much about how spirits are ''acquired'', per se, and the Spirit Battle inspiration works better when the stats of the battle are there to see. I can't say it's a bad idea, though. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 20:40, January 17, 2020 (EST)
::Well, most of the Spirit Battle locations in WoL have a meaning, and there is like 600 of them. As for the stats of the battle, it depends on the wording of the wording of the inspiration; if you go with "the conditions references...", it's sure gonna be confusing, but if it's rather "the low gravity condition references...", it's gonna be more understandable. Granted it has downsides too. Another option might be to add a "trivia per spirit" list: with such a more flexible definition, it could then include those "acquisistion inspirations" and even (didn't think about it before just yet) some "effect inspirations". Maybe we should add a whole "Spirit Trivia" section with a simple array with number, picture, name, and trivias bullet points (while still turning the Series Order section into a Spirit Origin section with number, picture, name, origin game (and artwork), and origin series). [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:03, January 19, 2020 (EST)
::{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Origin Game
! Origin Series
|-
|21
|{{anchor|Metal Mario}}[[File:SSBU spirit Metal Mario.png|center|64x64px]]
|[[Metal Mario]]
|''Super Mario 64''<br>(Artwork: ''Mario Kart 7'')
|rowspan="2" |''Super Mario Series''
|-
|28
|{{anchor|Cat Princess Peach}}[[File:SSBU spirit Cat Princess Peach.png|center|64x64px]]
|Cat Princess [[Peach]]
|''Super Mario 3D World''
|}
::{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Trivia
|-
|104
|[[File:SSBU spirit Geno.png|center|64x64px]]
|[[Geno]]
|
*Spirit Battle inspirations:
**The team that appears in his spirit battle represents the player's party in ''Super Mario RPG'': Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow (represented by Kirby), and Geno (represented by Sheik).
**The decreased FS Meter charge time reflects one of Geno's moves, Geno Boost, which raises his allies' attack power.
**The stage choice represents Star Road, Geno's place of origin and a prominent location in ''Super Mario RPG''.
*In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area, reflecting how, in ''Super Mario RPG'', Geno is a warrior from the stars.
|}
:::By the way, if we move the Origin Game column from the Spirits sections to the Series/Origin section, we will get some spare room in the Primary Spirits array that we could then use to separate the Stats column into 3 or even 6 columns (Power min, Power max, Attack min, Attack max, Defense min, Defense max). [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:37, January 19, 2020 (EST)
:::Here is another exemple of "spirit related trivia point" that could go in a Spirit Trivia section: [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_spirits_(Others)&curid=87456&diff=1356852&oldid=1356775| an edit explaining the reason for a spirit effect] [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:43, January 22, 2020 (EST)inde
OK, the more I think about it, the more the alternate version makes sense. I'm going to end that discussion here and start two separate new one so people can reply to each idea separatly. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 06:44, January 23, 2020 (EST)
== Spirits Origin section ==
What would you think about moving the Origin Game column from the Spirits arrays to the Series Order array, and renaming the section Spirits Origin? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:00, January 23, 2020 (EST)
<br>The idea would be to make it look like this:
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Spirit Origin
! Artwork Origin
! Series
|-
|1
|[[File:SSBU spirit Mario.png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Mario}}[[Mario]]
|''Donkey Kong''
|''Mario Party 10''
|''Super Mario Series''
|-
|2
|[[File:SSBU spirit Builder Mario.png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Builder Mario}}Builder Mario
| colspan="2" |''Super Mario Maker''
|''Super Mario Maker Series''
|-
|3
|[[File:SSBU spirit Mario (Wedding).png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Mario (Wedding)}}Mario (Wedding)
| colspan="2" |''Super Mario Odyssey''
| rowspan="5" |''Super Mario Series''
|-
|4
|[[File:SSBU spirit Luigi.png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Luigi}}[[Luigi]]
|''Mario Bros.''
|''Mario Party 8''
|-
|5
|[[File:SSBU spirit Peach.png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Peach}}[[Peach]]
|''[[Super Mario Bros.]]''
|''New Super Mario Bros. Wii''
|-
|6
|[[File:SSBU spirit Daisy.png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Daisy}}[[Daisy]]
|''Super Mario Land''
|''Mario Party 8''
|-
|7
|[[File:SSBU spirit Bowser.png|center|64x64px]]
|{{anchor|Bowser}}[[Bowser]]
|''Super Mario Bros.''
|''New Super Mario Bros. Wii''
|}
This would even provide some room to separate the Stats column from the Primary Spirits array into 3 or 6 columns, like this:
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Type
! Class
! Slot
! [[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]]
! [[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]]
! [[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]]
! Ability
! Acquisition
|-
|21
|{{anchor|Metal Mario}}[[File:SSBU spirit Metal Mario.png|center|108x108px]]
|[[Metal Mario]]
|[[File:SpiritTypeShield.png|20px|center|Shield]]
|★★★
|⬡
|2,705—8,156
|510—1,539
|2,042—6,156
|Weight ↑
|•Battle via Spirit Board<br>•Purchase from the Vault Shop for 6000G
|}
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Type
! Class
! Slot
! Min [[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]]
! Max [[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]]
! Min [[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]]
! Max [[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]]
! Min [[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]]
! Max [[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]]
! Ability
! Acquisition
|-
|21
|{{anchor|Metal Mario}}[[File:SSBU spirit Metal Mario.png|center|108x108px]]
|[[Metal Mario]]
|[[File:SpiritTypeShield.png|20px|center|Shield]]
|★★★
|⬡
|2,705
|8,156
|510
|1,539
|2,042
|6,156
|Weight ↑
|•Battle via Spirit Board<br>•Purchase from the Vault Shop for 6000G
|}
:And I just made a Power badge to makes all of this more appealing... [[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px]] [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 09:25, January 23, 2020 (EST)
Given the lack of reaction about that topic, and as I don't see any downside to this restructuration, I'll just go ahead and do it. If anyone thinks there are any reason not to do so, I'm inviting them to write their opinion here. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 05:25, January 31, 2020 (EST)
::As for the origin, I have no objection. As for the Stats, it seems better to keep it as it is.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 06:12, February 6, 2020 (EST)
:::I think that the origin section has the least useful info for in-game uses; stats are obviously useful, acquisition on how to get more, and number for cataloging. Though perhaps it could be merged with ''Series Order''? It is fairly thin and would be just as long as an origin section. Also, the Zelda page is the only one with the origin split. Should that be changed back to match the others until a split is agreed upon?
:::The stat split I think it is very much needed. It will be useful to figure out which Primary to choose by looking for the stats you want. The series pages are also the only ones with the stats merged together; the [[Primary_spirit#List_of_primary_spirits | Primary List]] and the [[List_of_spirits_(complete_list) | Complete List]] are already split. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 09:40, February 6, 2020 (EST)
::::The idea was to transform the Series Order section into a Spirit Origin section that would include both the Spirit Origin, the Artwork Origin, and the Series. As for separating the Stats column, the intend was indeed to be able to make a good use of the sorting feature, but it's true that it's then kind of hard to guess what number is what stat, maybe it could be a better option to separate the stats yet keep the icons with the data, like in the following array. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 09:51, February 6, 2020 (EST)
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Type
! Class
! Slot
! Min [[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]]
! Max [[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]]
! Min [[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]]
! Max [[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]]
! Min [[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]]
! Max [[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]]
! Ability
! Acquisition
|-
|21
|{{anchor|Metal Mario}}[[File:SSBU spirit Metal Mario.png|center|108x108px]]
|[[Metal Mario]]
|[[File:SpiritTypeShield.png|20px|center|Shield]]
|★★★
|⬡
|[[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]] 2,705
|[[File:Equipment Icon Power Badge.png|20px|Power]] 8,156
|[[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]] 510
|[[File:Equipment Icon Brawn Badge.png|20px|Brawn]] 1,539
|[[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]] 2,042
|[[File:Equipment Icon Protection Badge.png|20px|Protection]] 6,156
|Weight ↑
|•Battle via Spirit Board<br>•Purchase from the Vault Shop for 6000G
|}
:::::If that's the case then I think it would be fine (I should've read the original post better).
:::::I did a quick sandbox on a larger set and including the icons caused the sorting to not work properly. Sorting low to high caused 900 to be greater than 6000, defeating the purpose of the split. I think it would be best to leave only the numbers and if it is really needed then maybe a color-coding.--[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 10:25, February 6, 2020 (EST)
::::In fact, in my opinion, this function is not very important, because there is the [[Primary spirit]] page.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 23:36, February 6, 2020 (EST)
:::::I don't think that is a good reasoning. Let's say I'm new to Ultimate and know very little about spirits but have collected some through my completion journey. My friend is making an arena later and is allowing spirits, I kinda like this K. Rool guy, and I heard that spirits from the same game as my character get stronger. I check the Primary spirit page and sort by attack, look hard for a spirit that looks good and notice 'Kaptain K. Rool'. I choose him because he has 5600 attack and is obviously from the same game. What I don't realize is that he is 53rd in attack and skimmed past 'Donkey Kong & Lady' which is 28th in attack, comes with a skill, and has an extra slot. I can also try the DK series spirit page but when I try to sort it it says 'Ninja Kong' is the best? He has much lower stats (I know that 'Donkey Kong & Lady' are first when unsorted, but the best isn't always first).
:::::And then there is the editing perspective. I experienced this first hand when I recently joined and Byleth was added. I had the FE spirit page open on a smaller monitor and the text started to get jumbled together because of the image names, and it gets even more confusing on mobile. "Did I paste the wrong thing? Is it formatted wrong? Did I put defense where attack goes?". Split it up, give each stat their own line in the editor, and now the only trouble is counting. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 00:45, February 7, 2020 (EST)
:::::I don't agree with the "the primary spirits page" argument. That's thinking from the perspective of a contributor, but not from the perspective of a mainstream user. If a normal user ends up on the "per series spirits page", he won't guess that there is also a primary spirits page (heck, I didn't even know myself there was such a page up until right now). I think each page have to be self sufficient. It doesn't mean that the stats split has to be there, but the idea that it doesn't need to because it's already done somewhere else is flawed. I think it's a mistake many people here make: thinking about the "right" way to do things rather than the "useful" way. We should always think things from the viewpoint of a random user ending up on the wiki from a google search. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:32, February 7, 2020 (EST)
::::::Not long ago, these pages were added to the template. I think it's not hard for people to found this page now. And If people need to find the spirit of a particular series, just add series to the [[Primary spirit]] page.--[[User:Capstalker|Capstalker]] ([[User talk:Capstalker|talk]]) 08:09, February 7, 2020 (EST)
:::::::If you know a bit about the wiki structure, then finding the spirit you want won't be a problem, that is true. If I'm new or lazy, then I'll google "ultimate donkey kong spirits" or search on the wiki "donkey kong spirits" which gives the series list first.
:::::::But I'm going to move past finding the spirits for now. What benefit does placing the stats into one cell have? From my point-of-view, splitting them makes them sortable, easier to edit, and takes fewer bytes. What is better about how it is now? --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User_talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 11:58, February 7, 2020 (EST)
== Spirits Trivia section ==
The addition of the Inspirations column in the Spirit Battles array came with a lot of informations, and those informations eat up a lot of space. Also, since this column has been added, several people have been trying to add inspirations about the spirits acquisitions or effects that doesn't belong there, but should definitly be put somewhere on this wiki. For both of those reasons, I'm proposing the addition of a broader Spirit Trivia section with an array listing all the inspirations for the spirits effects, acquisitions, and battles. Here is an exemple of what suche an array would look like for Geno:
{|class="wikitable sortable" style="width:100%;"
|-
! No.
! style="width:5%;"|Image
! Name
! Trivia
|-
|104
|[[File:SSBU spirit Geno.png|center|64x64px]]
|[[Geno]]
|
*Spirit Battle inspirations:
**The team that appears in his spirit battle represents the player's party in ''Super Mario RPG'': Mario, Peach, Bowser, Mallow (represented by Kirby), and Geno (represented by Sheik).
**The decreased FS Meter charge time reflects one of Geno's moves, Geno Boost, which raises his allies' attack power.
**The stage choice represents Star Road, Geno's place of origin and a prominent location in ''Super Mario RPG''.
*In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area, reflecting how, in ''Super Mario RPG'', Geno is a warrior from Star Road.
|}
Here are some exemples of informations beside spirit battle inspirations that could be featured in that new trivia section:
*Lakitu & Spiny: The type of this spirit is Grab in reference of Lakitu frequently using a fishing rod for various tasks since Super Mario Kart.
*Absolutely Safe Capsule: The maximum defense stat of this spirit is 10,000, the highest in Smash, because this capsule is supposed to be impossible to break.
*Waluigi: This spirit effect is Foot Attack ↑ as a reference to Waluigi being described having strong legs in Mario Tennis/Party ''(not sure, but you get the idea)''.
*Geno: In World of Light, his Spirit Battle is located on the space area because, in Super Mario RPG, Geno is a warrior from Star Road.
*Mimicutie: In World of Light, her Spirit Battle become available after the player tries to open a fake chest, referencing how Mimicuty tricks people by looking like a chest.
*Zelda (Spirit Tracks): This spirit is enhanced from the Phantom spirit because in Spirit Tracks, Zelda is first introduced as a Phantom ''(not sure, but you get the idea)''.
*Poppi α: This spirit is available throught summoning, reflecting how in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 she is an artificial blade built by Tora.
*Aegislash: This spirit is available at Anna's Emporium to reference the fact that it is classified as a Royal Sword Pokémon in the Pokédex.
*Stack-Up: This spirit can exclusively be acquired by purchasing it in a shop, referencing how R.O.B. was initially a real life accessory for the Nes sold separatly.
*Agitha: This spirit can be obtained by completing the challenge "Collect 10 unique spirits" just like she revolved around collecting insects in Twilight Princess.
So, what do you think about such a new section? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:46, January 23, 2020 (EST)
:''QUOTE:'' Hmm... I'm not sure. I feel like we don't need to note too much about how spirits are ''acquired'', per se, and the Spirit Battle inspiration works better when the stats of the battle are there to see. I can't say it's a bad idea, though. ~ [[User:Serena Strawberry|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Serena Strawberry'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Serena Strawberry|talk]]) 20:40, January 17, 2020 (EST)
::''QUOTE:''  For the stats of the battle, it depends on the wording; if you go with "the conditions references...", it's sure gonna be confusing, but if it's rather "the low gravity condition references...", it's gonna be more understandable. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:03, January 19, 2020 (EST)
CanvasK
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