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Talk:Priority: Difference between revisions
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→Is brawl the only game where ZSS's down smash is transcendent?
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::Some air attacks maybe. But not all. As I said a airial Falcon kick clashes with a Quickdraw, a Knee cancels the Quickdraw out and an uair cancels Falcon Kick out. A DDD's utilt cancels out my dair, yoshi's fair spike cancels my nair out, my utilt clashes with bowsers dair...[[User:Mariofan13|Mariofan13]] ([[User talk:Mariofan13|talk]]) 14:02, 16 March 2015 (EDT) | ::Some air attacks maybe. But not all. As I said a airial Falcon kick clashes with a Quickdraw, a Knee cancels the Quickdraw out and an uair cancels Falcon Kick out. A DDD's utilt cancels out my dair, yoshi's fair spike cancels my nair out, my utilt clashes with bowsers dair...[[User:Mariofan13|Mariofan13]] ([[User talk:Mariofan13|talk]]) 14:02, 16 March 2015 (EDT) | ||
:::You don't seem to understand priority. If the aerial Falcon Kick and Quickdraw actually collided with each other, then the two attacks would be cancelled out because the difference between the damage dealt by those two attacks is 9% or less. However, because the Falcon Kick was used in the air, the two attacks don't collide with each other. Also, as I said before, some attacks can make some parts of the characters' bodies intangible. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 15:07, 16 March 2015 (EDT) | :::You don't seem to understand priority. If the aerial Falcon Kick and Quickdraw actually collided with each other, then the two attacks would be cancelled out because the difference between the damage dealt by those two attacks is 9% or less. However, because the Falcon Kick was used in the air, the two attacks don't collide with each other. Also, as I said before, some attacks can make some parts of the characters' bodies intangible. [[User:LimitCrown|LimitCrown]] ([[User talk:LimitCrown|talk]]) 15:07, 16 March 2015 (EDT) | ||
:After playing hundreds of games with different characters, I'm sure that something like airial priority exists. For example, Ganondorf seems to have high airial priority and cancels out airial moves of some other charakters like ZSS - and he has no disjointed hitbox because he doesn't use a weapon like a sword, hammer or gun. And Rosalumas uair has more priority than Ikes dair as I could see in a game on Battlefield. It occurs with different characters and different attacks, that an airial attack outpriorices another one. I don't agree with "airial priority doesn't exist" anymore, sorry [[User:Mariofan13|Mariofan13]] ([[User talk:Mariofan13|talk]]) 10:56, 26 May 2015 (EDT) | |||
== How priority is determined in Smash 4? == | |||
How Priority is determined in Smash 4? The 8% rule doesn't fit to all grounded vs grounded situations as G&Ws side special 9 (32%) sometimes clanks with an opponent's tilt move and Ike's jab 1 clanked with several smashes, like Fox's or Yoshi's Upsmash. [[Special:Contributions/188.118.248.107|188.118.248.107]] 18:48, 13 March 2016 (EDT) | |||
:It's very possible that the moves he's clanking with just don't have the range to actually hit him. They certainly collide, but that doesn't mean the characters have to be hitting each other. In fact, if the hitboxes don't overlap but the characters are within range, they will actually trade with each other and not clank at all. This is applicable to every game. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 05:02, 12 April 2016 (EDT) | |||
== Low Priority Existing in Other Games... == | |||
When I was testing Fox Illusion and Falco Phantasm in ''Melee'', I found that they acted exactly the same way as they did in ''Smash 4''. If a hitbox connects with Fox or Falco, they never trade and they always get hit. I'm thinking priority is more complicated than we thought and previous sentiments about Brawl Captain Falcon were right. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 04:18, 12 April 2016 (EDT) | |||
:Maybe it's the moves themselves. The hitboxes of Fox Illusion and Falco Phantasm are behind their user, which makes it so that they get hit first in every case. They have normal priority, but awkward timing. I do believe, however, that there are moves with low priority in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl''. '''[[User:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Crimson">Drill Blaster Mark</font> <font color="Silver">2</font>]]''' ''[[User talk:Drill Blaster Mark 2|<font color="Black">(talk)</font>]]'' 09:02, 12 April 2016 (EDT) | |||
The hitboxes of Fox Illusion/Falco Phantasm are attached to the afterimages, and are therefore technically projectiles. This is the case in all games where the move appears. In addition, the hitbox data format has been pretty much completely taken apart for all four games, and no hint of a "priority modifier" has been found. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Awesome 10:27, 12 April 2016 (EDT) | |||
== Having Said That... == | |||
Aren't object-based attacks like Bayonetta's smashes still exceptions to normal priority? I feel like they should still be listed, but I don't want anything I add to be undone again. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 15:34, 18 April 2016 (EDT) | |||
:...Do I take this silence as "I should add something pertaining to object attacks" or no? [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 03:47, 1 May 2016 (EDT) | |||
::It looks to me like "objects that don't vanish instantly upon being hit" might indeed be some sort of exception, but I'm not totally sure yet. Something funny is indeed going on. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Incomprehensible 09:36, 1 May 2016 (EDT) | |||
Please do not remove a bunch of detailed information and replace it with basically saying "it's a balance mechanic", a claim which doesn't actually have any proof at the moment. The video you posted is mostly correct, but the critical flaw is that it assumes that all props are projectiles, which is not necessarily true. It's not like any of the detailed information is incorrect: it lays out the current theory, gives some examples, and acknowledges that it's not completely understood. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Non-Toxic 21:22, 29 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
:No one is going to get that theory, and KH already clarified in that video that there is no separate priority reserved for projectiles or items (see Villager's bowling ball vs. Timber). He also said that whether or not these attacks are in fact props shouldn't matter (as Zero Suit Samus's n-air uses her whip, which is a prop, but does not have low priority). I think I laid out a perfectly good reason why said attacks are of low priority anyway. I'd hate it if Bayonetta was charging an up smash, directly below me, and I had no other way to avoid it without using something like Diddy Kong's Monkey Flip. God forbid you try to challenge something like that with another character's weak aerials if it didn't have this property. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 21:53, 29 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
::ZSS's nair is a non-relevant example, because in SSB4 it doesn't actually have any hitboxes on it (they're all attached to ZSS directly). And while yeah I guess it could be true that it's a balance decision, we have no proof of it, and even if it were we would need to outline what the technical deal is regardless. Maybe the technical deal is as simple as "supposed to always lose when clanking", but until we can find such we can only work with what we do know. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Inconceivable 23:26, 29 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
:::I mean, that's probably it. If someone throws out an attack to clank with Bayonetta's smash attacks, they are either completely safe when not in range to hit her, or they completely beat her attack and hit her. There's no need to overcomplicate things if one of the foremost authorities on Smash 4 knowledge made a video about priority (crude as it might be) specifically to stop spreading misinformation on it. Is low priority a balance mechanic? Perhaps not, but there would also be no other real explanation for why that property even exists in the first place. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 23:45, 29 June 2016 (EDT) | |||
== Robin's Thoron == | |||
I think this attack needs its own category of priority. At full charge, it acts as laser priority where it passes through everything and everything passes through it however it can also out-prioritise other projectiles and go right through them. This is distinctly different from Falcos laser, Mewtwos full charge shadow ball which can be stopped by things like bombs and mechakoopas. | |||
I also believe this has the same properties as Robs laser but I really don't know enough about Rob to say anything about that. | |||
[[Special:Contributions/101.173.51.242|101.173.51.242]] 19:38, 23 December 2016 (ACST) | |||
:It might have both trascendent priority and be unclankable. And next time, open a new section below, not above. You do it by selecting "new section" --[[File:BeepYouSignature.png|40px]] <font color="Green">'''Happy Holidays from'''</font> [[User:BeepYou|<font color="Red">'''BeepYou :)'''</font>]] [[User talk:BeepYou|<font color="Red">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 05:25, 23 December 2016 (EST) | |||
As far as the data goes, Thoron is indirect and can clang. However, because projectiles can't rebound and it doesn't disappear on hit, cancelling its earlier hitboxes won't do anything to stop the later hitboxes from coming through. This is unlike Falco's lasers and Shadow Ball, which have a single hitbox and then die. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Multifaceted 07:49, 23 December 2016 (EST) | |||
== Testing for Transcendent Priority == | |||
I am aware that moves with the afformentioned type of priority do not clash with other moves. So, lets say a move fails to destroy Mario's Fireball, and the character still takes damage despite the hitboxes connecting with each other. Would that mean the move has transcendent priority if it doesn't destroy the Fireball? [[User:Thecontributor22|Thecontributor22]] ([[User talk:Thecontributor22|talk]]) 21:23, March 20, 2019 (EDT) | |||
== Proposal to change/add pictures in the Gallery section == | |||
In my opinion, it's been a long time coming since the pics in the gallery section started to become outdated, this in part due to there being two (three) new games that have come out since then. New types of priority for attacks have been introduced since then, and aspects of priority have also been altered so that they differ from previous games. | |||
With ''Ultimate'' now out since approximately a year and a half, I saw it plausible that some of the pictures in the gallery could be replaced (with a few exceptions) while some others could be added to point out the properties of priority. I already got the pictures that could replace some of the older ones (it didn't take me long at all to get them), but I wanted consensus on whether or not the pictures should be replaced. | |||
What do you people think? --[[User:Beep|<font color="Black">'''Beep'''</font>]] [[User talk:Beep|<font color="Black">'''(talk)'''</font>]] 22:48, April 16, 2020 (EDT) | |||
== Is brawl the only game where ZSS's down smash is transcendent? == | |||
I'm asking because only brawl is labeled as a game where it has transcendent priority but in her smash 4 page, it doesn't say the move lost transcendent priority in the "changes from brawl" section. [[User:SacredFire37|SacredFire37]] ([[User talk:SacredFire37|talk]]) 00:03, March 28, 2021 (EDT) | |||