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Talk:Hammer (move): Difference between revisions
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here's a video of a glitch involving Kirby's hand to be on fire. | here's a video of a glitch involving Kirby's hand to be on fire. | ||
{{#widget:YouTube|id=zEyxVrkKUIs}} | |||
[[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 22:25, 15 February 2015 (EST) | [[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 22:25, 15 February 2015 (EST) | ||
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::::::Actually, if this were named Hammer Flip, "Hammer" would probably take you to the disambig since they might also be looking for the item. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 14:49, 24 January 2016 (EST) | ::::::Actually, if this were named Hammer Flip, "Hammer" would probably take you to the disambig since they might also be looking for the item. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 14:49, 24 January 2016 (EST) | ||
:::::::Ooh, you're right. Hmmm. I don't know what to think of that. I don't think it's a big deal, though. '''''[[User:Aardvarkian|<span style="color:purple;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">Aardvarkian</span>]]''''' <span style="color:blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">'''''[[User Talk:Aardvarkian|(Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aardvarkian|Contributions)]]''''' </span> 14:50, 24 January 2016 (EST) | :::::::Ooh, you're right. Hmmm. I don't know what to think of that. I don't think it's a big deal, though. '''''[[User:Aardvarkian|<span style="color:purple;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">Aardvarkian</span>]]''''' <span style="color:blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">'''''[[User Talk:Aardvarkian|(Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aardvarkian|Contributions)]]''''' </span> 14:50, 24 January 2016 (EST) | ||
::::::::That's the case for both Hammer items and hammer moves. I think it works regardless. No problems. '''''[[User:Aardvarkian|<span style="color:purple;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">Aardvarkian</span>]]''''' <span style="color:blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">'''''[[User Talk:Aardvarkian|(Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aardvarkian|Contributions)]]''''' </span> 14:53, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
No. The reason I want this discussion over is because it's one that I feel will never have a true consensus. There's just too much back and forth. We've been tied in votes now at like 4 or 5 different times, and I don't see that changing. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 14:54, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:Also, my being "in charge" is completely irrelevant. My opinion counts for no more than yours does unless I make it so through better logic and reasoning. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 14:55, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
::Well, favoring a side (particularly the side you're on) just because there's not a consensus does look pretty bad. Again, you could just wait until there's a democratic winner again. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 14:56, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:::That's not really how SW works though is it? I am not favoring the opposing side because that's the one I'm on. If the discussion is dropped, the logical solution is to keep the page as is. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 14:59, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:::I just don't see why you think closing this off is logical. There was discussion coinciding with the time it was supposedly "dropped." There is a possibility there will be consensus, closing it out of fear it won't isn't responsible. Anyways, we could have a redirect on Hammer (move) to Hammer Flip, as simply "Hammer" was a previous name of the move. It would work great. '''''[[User:Aardvarkian|<span style="color:purple;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">Aardvarkian</span>]]''''' <span style="color:blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">'''''[[User Talk:Aardvarkian|(Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aardvarkian|Contributions)]]''''' </span> 15:00, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
::::(edit conflict) Yes, but that's still favoring the other side. If we leave the page as-is, it would be the same as if it was consensus for oppose, therefore they "win" despite not having consensus. So when there's really no good reason to end the discussion, it's just unfair to do so. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 15:00, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:::::Discussion has gone on for 11 days, with zero input on only two days (not in a row), I don't see how this discussion has truly been "dropped." '''''[[User:Aardvarkian|<span style="color:purple;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">Aardvarkian</span>]]''''' <span style="color:blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px">'''''[[User Talk:Aardvarkian|(Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aardvarkian|Contributions)]]''''' </span> 15:04, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
::::::I also must admit that this discussion is turning into a massive headache for me. I have been trying my hardest to remain neutral in decision making here (note that I have been trying to gain consensus to drop it, rather than just doing it) but it is becoming increasingly difficult. Activity on a discussion is irrelevant if it seems consensus will never be reached. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 15:09, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:::::::But it's not causing any problems (besides this discussion here which is somewhat problematic, but that was started by you trying to end it). If we were all screaming at each other or something I could see why ending it would be a good plan. But given that it's not distracting us from the work on the wiki, and it's not a heated argument, there's no reason we can't wait to at least get a democratic solution. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 15:11, 24 January 2016 (EST) | |||
<small>(reset indent)</small> Considering this discussion has lasted for almost 2 weeks now, it's starting to give me a headache too. Yes, it's not causing problems, but no matter what, consensus doesn't seem to be reaching at all and it feels like it's going to last forever at this point. Honestly, I felt once Miles removed the tag, it should've stayed that way. I honestly kind of regret even putting the tag up the first time to begin with at this point... [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 01:40, 26 January 2016 (EST) | |||
'''Support.''' Quote from the PAL version: "When this move is fully charged, it becomes Hammer Flip." I believe this is enough information to justify support. Besides, if the discussion's getting this bad, how about we just name it Kirby's Side-B? It doesn't confuse anyone. [[User:SuneEnough|~SuneEnough]] ([[User talk:SuneEnough|talk]]) 15:40, 26 January 2016 (EST) | |||
== Move (2) == | |||
I'm not happy with the results of the previous discussion so I'm opening up a brand new one. | |||
Hammer Flip is the most recent name for the move and is used in the NTSC and Japanese versions of SSB4 as the main name of the move, and in the PAL version it's the name of a fully charged Hammer, so it's used in all three versions. We previously moved [[Hero's Bow]] and [[Inhale]] to match the name of the new names they were given in Brawl for the same reason, so it would be inconsistent not to move this one. Additionally, it would make the title less sloppy since we wouldn't have to have the "(move)" modifier to make the difference between it and [[Hammer (item)]] clear. | |||
So that said, I '''strongly support''' moving it. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 14:34, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:'''oppose''' Hammer is used more often and hammer flip just dosent sound cool [[User:Nintendofan1653|<font color="red">'''Nintendofan1653'''</font>]] ''([[User talk:Nintendofan1653#top|<font color="blue">talk</font>]])'' EZMONEY!! 14:51, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:'''Support''' for the same reasons as before. [[File:TepigSprite.png]][[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 14:56, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
== Protection? == | |||
Um I'm pretty sure protection for a single edit war that's effectively resolved is not really proper here. It's only one circumstance that's already over. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 15:05, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:Agreed. <b>[[User:john3637881|<span style="color: black;">John</span>]]</b> [[File:John3637881 Signature.png|20px]] <b>[[User talk:John3637881|<span style="color: red;">PK SMAAAASH!!</span>]]</b> 15:51, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:I don't want to simply remove protection without talking it out first, but I agree that this protection was wrong. Clearly stated in [[SW:PROTECT]] is that we as admins are not to protect pages simply to get our way, which is essentially what's happening here. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 18:55, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
::After taking a peek at the history of this page...I retract that statement, protection was entirely necessary in that case. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 21:07, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
:::I was going more by "Do not make the common mistake of protecting pages unnecessarily. For example, do not protect a page simply because it is the Main Page, or because it got vandalized once." While not vandalism, there was only one edit war that had been long resolved when Miles protected it. It's one thing to protect it when it's only one edit war mid-edit war, but it was over. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 21:23, 27 January 2016 (EST) | |||
== Rename == | |||
I know this topic has been [[#Move|discussed before]] (and [[#Move (2)|nearly was discussed again]]), I would like to point out that PAL ''Ultimate'' now refers to this move as "Hammer Flip" alongside the NTSC version. Therefore, in tandem with renaming [[Grand Star|other]] [[Fire Arrow|pages]] to match their most recent name, I would like to propose moving this page to "Hammer Flip" as well. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 13:40, June 25, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:If the PAL version changed the name too, then yes, we should move this page to Hammer Flip. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 13:41, June 25, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:'''Support''' for reasons mentioned above. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 13:43, June 25, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Bumping - anyone have any objections to this? [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:01, June 28, 2019 (EDT) | |||
'''Oppose''', I would much prefer a split to a move. Hammer has been the name for just as long has hammer flip has, and there are significant functional differences. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 10:14, June 30, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Bumping. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 00:32, July 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
'''Split''', into "Hammer (move)" and "Hammer Flip". I think this will make things easier to work with. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Rainbow 10:53, July 6, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I'm also for this, it's better than choosing one over the other. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 11:43, July 6, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::After seeing Alex’s suggestion, change my vote to a split instead of a rename. I agree that it’ll be easier to work with. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 15:43, July 8, 2019 (EDT) | |||
I'm in favor of a split, but I also think that the Melee/Brawl move should be moved to simply [[Hammer]], to be consistent with [[Boomerang]]. [[User:Rdrfc|Rdrfc]] ([[User talk:Rdrfc|talk]]) 02:58, July 18, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Similarly to [[Boomerang]] and [[Boomerang (item)]]? I support a '''split''' like that. [[User:Crazy456Rhino|Crazy456Rhino]] ([[User talk:Crazy456Rhino|talk]]) 12:01, November 26, 2019 (EST) | |||