Talk:Clone/Archive 3: Difference between revisions

Talk:Clone/Archive 3 (view source)

Revision as of 08:33, July 2, 2010

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→‎Setting A Standard

Grim Tuesday

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 :Firstly, you put new topics  at the '''bottom''' of the page, Now to discuss your post. Firstly, their are '''no''' special moves that are the "same". For two moves to be the same, they have to have the same exact hitboxes, which no two attacks do. Special moves also should not be given higher significance, they are just attacks with special effects. They are also not what defines a character the most. What is Snake known for? Is it his special moves or his amazing tilts? The answer is quite obvious there. Now to the characters you listed. Firstly, Link and Toon Link are not clones, they are more different than Mario and Luigi were in ''Melee''. I also find it completely ridiculous that you say Fox and Falco being semi-clones is debatable, but fully believe Fox and Wolf are. In case you didn't notice, Falco's specials are more similar to Fox's than Wolf's are as well as having multiple similar standard attacks. Fox and Wolf are not semi-clones. Just because Wolf's specials are somewhat similar do not mean they are semi-clones. Wolf's standard attacks are vastly different than Fox's. In the end, I heavily disagree what you stated. Your definition of cloneship is far too lenient. Like what Miles and I said in earlier posts, we should have a straight forward, strict definition or else we end with Link&Toon Link being labeled as clones and Wolf&Fox or even Marth&Ike being labeled semi-clones. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 12:00, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
-::Firstly, chill. I was a small mistake because I wasn't paying attention. Thankyou for moving it.
+::Firstly, chill. It was a small mistake because I wasn't paying attention. Thankyou for moving it.
-People often say things like "Oh, those two flavours taste the same", 'the same' in that case, meaning similar. I'm not stupid enough to think that the attacks would be EXACTLY the same, I don't see why you needed to interpret my comment as such. Special Moves should be given higher significance from a design stand-point, which is what decides clones.
+::People often say things like "Oh, those two flavours taste the same", 'the same' in that case, meaning similar. I'm not stupid enough to think that the attacks would be EXACTLY the same, I don't see why you needed to interpret my comment as such.
-So be it if Snake's tilts are more well known in the smash community than his specials, but when the game was being made, the developers probably though "We will put their most iconic moves as Specials (as is evident in pretty much every character mind you) and just have random extra attacks as Normals". Because wether someone is a clone or not is decided by their design, and they were designed by the developers who most likely though that Specials are more important, that is why I believe that Specials > Normals when it comes to design importance.
+::Think of it this way.
+::a) What defines a clone is how they were designed.
+::b) The creators most likely believed that Special Moves hold more design value over Normal Moves because they are the most iconic moves of that character in most cases, are given there own button (as opposed to tilts, smashes, etc... all being on the same button) and are associated with the game-winning Final Smashes.
+::c) The creators designed the clones, so assuming the above two points are correct, that means that the creators would have held the Special Moves with greater value when designing the clones.
-And, Link & Toon Link not clones? I disagree considerably.
+::Snake is known for his tilts in the competitive smash community, but not in the creator's eyes. I am surprised this point is being argued, I thought that Special Moves being regarded as the character's "iconic" and "main" moves was pretty common...
-Forward Smash, Up Smash, Down Smash, Dair, Forward B, Up B, Down B, Neutral B, Final Smash and Grab all have only minor differences. Mario and Luigi in Melee have a different Forward Special and (as with the third reason I stated in my original post) the creators were quite obviously trying to de-clone them. I guess they would still be considered clones on revision though, but I disagree strongly about Tink not being a clone.
-Another error with Wolf, I forgot to put the *Debatable* there. Sorry.
+::And, Link & Toon Link not clones? I disagree considerably.
+::Forward Smash, Up Smash, Down Smash, Dair, Forward B, Up B, Down B, Neutral B, Final Smash and Grab all have only minor differences. Mario and Luigi in Melee have a different Forward Special and (as with the third reason I stated in my original post) the creators were quite obviously trying to de-clone them. I guess they would still be considered clones on revision though, but I disagree strongly about Tink not being a clone.
-Finally, it will come down to opinion no matter what.
+::Another error with Wolf, I forgot to put the *Debatable* there. Sorry for the confusion.
-If you make guidelines which cause Link/Tink to not be considered Clones/Semi-Clones, then I will disagree. So what we would probably need to do is somehow get a majority vote of some sort by the intelligent wiki members on what should be done about the situation.
-P.S. As I said at the very start, chill man, I was only putting forward an idea (which is quite opinion-based, so I expected disagreement) you didn't need to try and shoot me down in flames. [[User:Grim Tuesday|Grim Tuesday]] ([[User talk:Grim Tuesday|talk]]) 12:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
+::Finally, it will come down to opinion no matter what.
+::If you make guidelines which cause Link/Tink to not be considered Clones/Semi-Clones, then I will disagree. So what we would probably need to do is somehow get a majority vote of some sort by the intelligent wiki members on what should be done about the situation.
+::P.S. As I said at the very start, chill man, I was only putting forward an idea (which is quite opinion-based, so I expected disagreement) you didn't need to try and shoot me down in flames. [[User:Grim Tuesday|Grim Tuesday]] ([[User talk:Grim Tuesday|talk]]) 12:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)