User talk:Scr7/Sandbox

Your Brawl recovery tier list

Normally I wouldn't comment on this stuff, but there are some glaring issues:

• Ivysaur shouldn't be anywhere above Olimar, Olimar is superior in about every recovery aspect. Olimar falls slower, has better air speed, has a higher midair jump, his tether can reach farther, his tether can also give him a slight jump instead of just reaching out with no distance, and he has Whistle for on demand super armor. Olimar's recovery may be poor overall, but his is completely superior to Ivysaur's.

• Ike's recovery ain't bottom tier. While the distance it gains is among the shortest, Aether provides among the best protection for any recovery move, and since the distance Ike gains is still adequate to recover in most situations, this immense recovery protection pushes him up to lower middle at worst.

• Why the hell do you have Peach so low? She shouldn't be anywhere below A, much less in the second lowest tier. Yes the height gained by her midair jump is ass, but this hardly matters when it'll pretty much never cost Peach a recovery, while her floating ability and Parasol make her among the hardest characters to edgeguard while ensuring she can pretty much recover from any blow.

• Wolf shouldn't be two whole tiers below Falco, when his recovery is better. For one thing, Wolf isn't dead in the water if he's forced to recover vertically. Additionally, while Falco Phantasm does provide pseudo-invincibility during the first third of the move, it doesn't get that extra vertical height Wolf Flash does, nor is it capable of scarring. Wolf also has really damn good air speed unlike Falco, so Wolf can often make it back with just his midair jump. Wolf overall has more options, and can gain greater distance.

• Lucario shouldn't be anywhere near the high tiers. Extreme Speed is a pretty poor recovery move, that provides Lucario no protection, and only gains average distance, while also being of only average speed (and it can do absolutely nothing to edge hoggers). While Lucario is floaty with above average air speed, he often has to use Extreme Speed anyway, which costs Lucario many early deaths (his recovery is probably his biggest issue in competitive play, and why MK is such a poor matchup for him).

• Toon Link's recovery, while good, shouldn't be anywhere near top. Many other recoveries beat it in distance, and many other beat it in protection. It's good, but it's not particularly difficult to edgeguard, and it's really possible to fatally edgeguard and gimp him. And Toon Link doesn't have a great amount of options to mix his recovery up to fool you. It's C tier at best.

• Marth shouldn't be anywhere below Falcon and Falco. The extra distance they get over Marth is marginal, while Marth's provides more protection, especially when compared to Falcon (Marth can also recover vertically well, while Falco is again dead in the water if he has to use Fire Bird).

• Sheik's is way too high. She has among the shortest distance recoveries while also falling fast with poor air speed. She additionally can't do much to edge hoggers. While Vanish provides great protection, Sheik is pretty much screwed if she has to recover from far out.

There are some other nickpicks, but these are the most glaring issues. Omega Tyrant 14:41, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

I felt like making my own version after I saw some other recovery tier list, I think it was a guy called Zeldasmash or something? But anyway, I wasn't expecting it to be very accurate, and I do agree with many of your points, so I will change it later, but here are some things. I agree that Ike may be too low, but semi-spikes are just so deadly for him. But yeah, Aether can meteor people off the ledge. I'll put him higher than Mario. Meteor smashes are quite lethal to Wolf because of that pointless 60-frame delay he gets. Lucario has a very good wall jump which helps on stages like YI, although it is almost useless on BF and SV. I put Toon Link high because of his floatiness and above average air speed helping, along with having a few options (he does have wall jump, zair, bomb recovery). Also, do you think Wario, Kirby, and Pit should be higher or lower? Scr7 15:20, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

Semi-spikes are deadly to Ike, but they're deadly to many other characters you have above him, and again, good luck hitting him with anything through Aether, especially with a good semi-spike. Yes meteor smashes will be nearly always fatal to Wolf if they produce knockback, but how often are you actually hitting him with meteor smashes during edgeguarding that won't kill others but will kill him for this to matter? Besides many characters lacking a decent meteor smash, it's pretty difficult to land meteor smashes in high levels of play. I comain Wolf and Dedede, and the amount of meteor smashes I died to as Wolf when recovering that I would of survived as Dedede (one of the most meteor resistance characters) I can count on one hand. As such, the 60 frame meteor cancelling thing is pretty much negligible for Wolf when it comes to recovering.

With Lucario, more often than not you don't have a wall to use. And even then, wall jumping mainly just helps a bit with edge-hoggers and gives an additional, while still not doing much to give him protection when recovering. This might push him to high up in low tier, it certainly doesn't bump him to the high tiers.

Toon Link doesn't have that many options, and quite simply, while his recovery is good, it's about moderate to edgeguard, and many otherss' are better.

For your question, Wario should be in the A tier. Corkscrew is crap, but his air speed and Bike is so good that he'll almost never need to use Corkscrew. And in the event you have to use Corkscrew, you can use Waft instead.

Kirby is about alright where he is, though he shouldn't be above Sonic.

Pit is also about right where he is, though Toon Link shouldn't be anywhere near above him. Omega Tyrant 15:56, 27 June 2013 (EDT)