User talk:128.238.155.50

Other characters

This edit you made was a blatant violation of how we handle recording character usage. The other characters entry in infoboxes is only for legitimate secondaries, which means when adding other characters to someone's infobox, they must meet the following criteria:

• The player uses the character in actual tournament sets (so no characters they just fuck around with on streams and similar casual environments)
• The player uses the character against legitimate opponents (so not just against pool scrubs they could beat with anyone)
• The player uses the character with some real degree of success (so not a character they bust out just to lose with, the character must actually win them sets against legitimate opponents)
• The player uses the character with some matter of frequency (so no one-offs like Nairo's Ult Ganon either)
• The player used the character some time recently (or was still using the character by the time they stopped playing in the case of retired players), as infoboxes are meant to be up to date. If the player no longer uses the character but their usage of the character was significant, they must instead be put as a retired character.

The wiki had a serious problem in the past with the "other characters" entries of smashers' infoboxes being disgustingly bloated with useless characters that the players barely or never actually used in tournaments, and it took a concentrated effort by the userbase to address the problem (and it's still not fully cleaned up, I still come across smasher pages with bloated character usage in their infoboxes). Do follow this from now on whenever adding to someone' characters in their infobox. Omega Tyrant 01:36, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

So I looked at Fiction's Twitter and I see something about him trying to use Sheik, and got told he used Sheik to beat Axe in a tournament this weekend, but the point still stands that we need to see that he actually sticks to using Sheik, and that it doesn't end up like the Peach and Marth "secondaries" he had before that only saw usage in a couple tournaments, before adding it to the infobox. Omega Tyrant 02:03, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

Hi, Fiction has used Sheik for quite a few tournaments now (Redemption Rumble, DreamHack San Diego, and Smash Camp this weekend to name some examples), been seriously grinding Sheik for the past few months (including practice sessions with other top players), and considers himself to have a legitimate Sheik secondary. It's pretty disingenuous to call that particular edit I made a "blatant violation", it implies that the edit was made callously. I appreciate that you took the time to catch up a bit and learn that he did indeed take a set off Axe with his Sheik this weekend. Have a nice day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.238.155.50 (talk • contribs) 07:47, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

As I elaborated in the first post, characters that are only ever used in losing efforts are not considered, so any usage at Redemption Rumble and DreamHack does not count (which is why Sheik is not listed among his characters used in the results on their respective tournament pages), and with only a single actual successful usage so far, it does not merit being listed yet, as elaborated in the first post about no "one-offs" and explained in the second post (which if you took the time to familiarize yourself with our standards, you would see we enforce it elsewhere, like not listing R.O.B. among MKLeo's secondaries because it has been used extremely sparingly over a short period of time). It is standard procedure to wait until things become established with something as finicky as character usage, as it would be disingenuous to list Sheik as a secondary of Fiction only for him to end up barely using her and dropping her within a month. We additionally do not care what a player says about who they use or how much they're grinding a character, rather than who they actually use in meaningful tournament sets; all too often players say they're dropping their main or training up a new character, just for them to go back to the prior character usage a month later, if they ever actually used their "new character" at all (which is also part of what caused the disgusting bloat with character usage in infoboxes before, as top players' followers took them at their word and slap that character into their infobox, and then never bother to correct it once the player never follows through with meaningfully using the character). Omega Tyrant 13:20, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

Fiction has still meaningfully played Sheik for several months now (not just "barely a month" as you state), even if this weekend is where he has finally seen the most success with the Sheik secondary. I know how top players are when it comes to their tendencies to say they're dropping or adding characters on a whim. I simply make small contributions here for fun and to help preserve the history of this series in the little ways I can. Even Liquipedia acknowledges the Sheik secondary. With all due respect, I'm adding it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.144.42 (talk • contribs) 18:30, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

We ain't the same as Liquipedia. Sign your posts with 4 tildes (~). NPM Morr!? 19:06, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

Where are these "meaningful usages"? As I said before, we don't count people using characters in only losing sets. And if the results not on wiki are of him using Sheik at locals, then we also do not count that for secondary purposes with any remotely top level player. As of now, he has one meaningful usage of Sheik. We also do not care if Liquipedia is more loose with their character standards, we are not Liquipedia and we do not want our infoboxes to go back to looking like this again. If Fiction is serious about Sheik, then it will prove itself in due time, there is no need to rush it. Also you do not get to decide to add back your disputed content, do so again and that will be blatant edit warring. Omega Tyrant 21:49, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

Really don't appreciate your patronizing tone, but have it your way. If it really matters all that much to you, then I won't be touching that specific part of the page. 128.238.155.50 01:06, April 18, 2023 (EDT)