SSB4 RCO lag a result of an interruptibility glitch?Edit
So I was doing some testing in SSB4 on how RCO lag affects how much lag affected fighters will take, and I noticed that while hard and soft landing animations are always interruptible, in the case of RCO lag, the fighter cannot act until the animation has finished completely, and the same phenomenon seems to occur with aerial landing lag animations. It seems to me like RCO lag in SSB4 is caused by a glitch in the way interruptibility works. Thoughts? Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 12:10, 28 October 2017 (EDT)
- Just gonna bump this since nobody noticed it. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 13:40, 1 November 2017 (EDT)
- Uhm? That sounds perfectly normal and exactly how it should work. Landing normally has lag shorter than the animation so interrupting it is allowed; the glitch has lag last longer than the landing animation, so the landing animation extends to suit and can't be interrupted. Toomai Glittershine
The Wacko 21:38, 5 November 2017 (EST)
- But the thing is, from what I saw the landing lag animation speed doesn't change at all. Unfortunately none of the affected fighters have any aerials that cannot be interrupted, so I can't prove this per se, but it does seem to be the case. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 11:23, 6 November 2017 (EST)
- Additionally, when increasing the landing lag of aerials for fighters who are "giant", the game slows down the entire landing lag animation, but the part of the animation where you can interrupt it remains the same, it just takes longer to get there because the whole animation plays slower. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 11:28, 6 November 2017 (EST)
- Uhm? That sounds perfectly normal and exactly how it should work. Landing normally has lag shorter than the animation so interrupting it is allowed; the glitch has lag last longer than the landing animation, so the landing animation extends to suit and can't be interrupted. Toomai Glittershine
Bumping this again due to it remaining unresolved. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 14:59, 12 November 2017 (EST)
- Your "theory" is backwards. Length of landing lag controls the animation speed, not the other way around. Toomai Glittershine The Brass 16:31, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- Exactly, and the fact that the additional lag caused by the Landing lag glitch doesn't alter the animation length, and always increases by the same number of frames of deficit between the point of interruptibility and the end of the animation suggests that what's actually happening is that the game for some reason ignores interruptibility when the glitch is activated. Again, this is not typical behaviour for increased landing lag. From any other source, be it the Super Mushroom, a reduced speed stat, or otherwise, the animation is always slowed down to increase it's length proportional to how much the landing lag is increased by. You can test this for yourself, and in SSB4, outside of this glitch the point in the animation at which the game will allow the player to interrupt the lag stays the same no matter what. Instead of moving the point of interruptibility to a different part of the animation to represent the extra lag, it will always slow down the animation, with no regard for how much of the animation is considered interruptible. The only way in which the interruptibility of a landing lag animation is ever completely removed is via this glitch, and the animation doesn't slow down at all, but rather the extra lag suffered is equal to how many frames of the animation take place while it is interruptible. This is why I believe that it is a glitch with interruptibility. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 16:44, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- Alright I get what you're saying now. But a bit of research tells me that "RCO lag is caused by an interruptibility glitch" is still not the case. What's going on is that when your impending landing lag is shorter than the length of the soft or hard landing animation, it can be interrupted, whereas if the lag is longer, the animation gets slowed down to match. It's still the lag controlling the animation, just with an additional trick that stops the animation being sped up too much. Toomai Glittershine The Pan-Galactic 17:08, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- What I'm talking about is separate from what they discussed in that video (although nevertheless it applies to that too). I'm talking about how you receive extra landing lag from landing with aerials when RCO lag would normally be applied. Interestingly they completely gloss over this in the video. But in any case, the video doesn't actually disprove my theory. They state that the hard and soft landing lag is increased for characters affected by the glitch (which is true), but they never state why, or by how much. Even with hard and soft landings, the same principle applies. The amount of lag received is still exactly equal to the length of the animations, with no regard for interruptibility (which explains the phenomenon that occurs with some fighters with regards to RCO lag, where it doesn't seem to matter whether you get the hard or soft landing. The length of the unaltered animations are so similar, that the RCO lag appears at full speed gameplay as though it is identical for both, since the opponent is in lag until the animation ends). I have even gone back and retested all of what I discussed, and sure enough, even with hard and soft landing lag, the extra lag received is a result of the part of the animation that is interruptible not being interruptible due to the glitch. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what the animation being sped up has to do with anything, since animation length would be slowed down in the case of additional landing lag, but there is no technical limit to how fast or slow the animation can play. Try this: create a custom character with a drastically reduced speed stat, go in to special smash, and set it to "mega". Turn on super mushrooms and have said fighter collect one, then land with an aerial, or simply a regular landing. You will see the animation is slowed astronomically to compensate for the greatly increased lag. The game does not care how much it has to alter the animation speed by to fit the new amount of lag. Yet again, my theory about RCO lag being caused by an interruptibility glitch explains all the abnormalities that occur due to the glitch. I would not be continuing this discussion if I was not fully satisfied with what my testing has shown. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 17:32, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- "the extra lag received is a result of the part of the animation that is interruptible not being interruptible due to the glitch"
- How do you know this? How do you know it's not something like "soft and hard landings are only allowed to be interruptible if there is no other lag attemping to assert itself"? Toomai Glittershine The Brazen 18:02, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- As I explained before, even with hard and soft landing lag, the game uses the same procedure for extending the lag, to slow down the animation, but not effect the "point in the animation" as it were where you are able to interrupt it. Again, you can test this in the way I described. In the exact same way that the behaviour of aerial landing lag with RCO lag does not follow that of increased landing lag under normal circumstances, neither does the behaviour of the hard and soft landing lags. They behave in the exact same way as aerial landing lags, and are always interruptible, even when the lag is increased. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 18:07, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- What I'm talking about is separate from what they discussed in that video (although nevertheless it applies to that too). I'm talking about how you receive extra landing lag from landing with aerials when RCO lag would normally be applied. Interestingly they completely gloss over this in the video. But in any case, the video doesn't actually disprove my theory. They state that the hard and soft landing lag is increased for characters affected by the glitch (which is true), but they never state why, or by how much. Even with hard and soft landings, the same principle applies. The amount of lag received is still exactly equal to the length of the animations, with no regard for interruptibility (which explains the phenomenon that occurs with some fighters with regards to RCO lag, where it doesn't seem to matter whether you get the hard or soft landing. The length of the unaltered animations are so similar, that the RCO lag appears at full speed gameplay as though it is identical for both, since the opponent is in lag until the animation ends). I have even gone back and retested all of what I discussed, and sure enough, even with hard and soft landing lag, the extra lag received is a result of the part of the animation that is interruptible not being interruptible due to the glitch. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what the animation being sped up has to do with anything, since animation length would be slowed down in the case of additional landing lag, but there is no technical limit to how fast or slow the animation can play. Try this: create a custom character with a drastically reduced speed stat, go in to special smash, and set it to "mega". Turn on super mushrooms and have said fighter collect one, then land with an aerial, or simply a regular landing. You will see the animation is slowed astronomically to compensate for the greatly increased lag. The game does not care how much it has to alter the animation speed by to fit the new amount of lag. Yet again, my theory about RCO lag being caused by an interruptibility glitch explains all the abnormalities that occur due to the glitch. I would not be continuing this discussion if I was not fully satisfied with what my testing has shown. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 17:32, 9 December 2017 (EST)
- Alright I get what you're saying now. But a bit of research tells me that "RCO lag is caused by an interruptibility glitch" is still not the case. What's going on is that when your impending landing lag is shorter than the length of the soft or hard landing animation, it can be interrupted, whereas if the lag is longer, the animation gets slowed down to match. It's still the lag controlling the animation, just with an additional trick that stops the animation being sped up too much. Toomai Glittershine
- Exactly, and the fact that the additional lag caused by the Landing lag glitch doesn't alter the animation length, and always increases by the same number of frames of deficit between the point of interruptibility and the end of the animation suggests that what's actually happening is that the game for some reason ignores interruptibility when the glitch is activated. Again, this is not typical behaviour for increased landing lag. From any other source, be it the Super Mushroom, a reduced speed stat, or otherwise, the animation is always slowed down to increase it's length proportional to how much the landing lag is increased by. You can test this for yourself, and in SSB4, outside of this glitch the point in the animation at which the game will allow the player to interrupt the lag stays the same no matter what. Instead of moving the point of interruptibility to a different part of the animation to represent the extra lag, it will always slow down the animation, with no regard for how much of the animation is considered interruptible. The only way in which the interruptibility of a landing lag animation is ever completely removed is via this glitch, and the animation doesn't slow down at all, but rather the extra lag suffered is equal to how many frames of the animation take place while it is interruptible. This is why I believe that it is a glitch with interruptibility. Alex Parpotta the flying lobster! 16:44, 9 December 2017 (EST)