SmashWiki

Forum:Ambitious idea for moveset subpage system

Forum Discussion

This is a proposal to create a network of subpages for every attack of every character containing in-depth information and technical data, essentially massively expanding and splitting the current moveset list of character pages.

Purpose
List all available information for all moves without having to squeeze it into one section on one page.
Target
A series of pages such as [[Donkey Kong (SSB)/Back aerial]], [[Young Link (SSBM)/Grab aerial]], and [[Mario (SSBB)/Side special]] that contain a detailed overview of the move and all its properties and usages, hitbox data, frame data, other important values, and optionally "soft" data such as average KO power. Pages would also be connected by a series of categories that group them by property (such as flame attacks, leg attacks, attacks that can be reflected, etc).
Notes
  • Pages such as Fireball and Robo Beam would remain as they are, describing each special move in general without necessarily getting into game-specific numbers. They would then link to [[R.O.B. (SSBB)/Neutral special]] and the like.
  • Moveset information on character pages would continue to go over the most important aspects of each move (damage, relative KO power/direction, notable uses), but most other things would be covered only by the subpage.
Example
Mostly-complete mockup of Mario (SSBB)/Forward smash

SupportEdit

  1. Toomai Glittershine   The Keymaster 16:45, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  2. Dots   The Team Fortress 2 17:22, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  3. The organisation from this will be immensely helpful. Omega Tyrant   17:26, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  4. Support. If these pages end up being too short, we could create "Donkey Kong (SSBB)/Moveset" instead. And the person who wrote this should have signed above the "Support" heading. Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:51, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  5. Miles' oppose vote is irrelevant, as Miles isn't putting in the work (as far as I know, but I think it's safe to say) and shouldn't be the judge of whether or not the efforts are "worth it". DoctorPain99  17:54, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  6. I'd definitely like to see individual pages for A moves, though I'm not so sure about having second pages for the special moves. THat doesn't alter my support of the proposal, however. Toast  ltimatum  20:00, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  7. No objection on my part. Definitely will give more insight into how the moves are played out. Conny   20:10, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  8. SmashBall the Bologna (talk) 20:24, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  9. This is such a great idea that I'm coming back just to support it. Support per all above. Air Conditioner   wants money 15:28, 26 April 2013 (EDT)
  10. Yep, the attack tables are a bit too mastodonic for their surroundings. Though in my opinion there should be more than one attack per subpage. - Ceci n’est pas un Smiddle. 15:41, 26 April 2013 (EDT)
  11. Each subpage seems to have enough content to not be annoyingly small, and it'd allow all that tiny little detailed info to not look cluttered. — {EspyoT} 14:35, 2 May 2013 (EDT)
  12. I'll support, but you guys can have fun making this. It's all beyond me. infernape612 10:01, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
  13. Better to store the "hard" data off the main character pages, and instead dedicate the moveset portions to describing tactical and competitive uses. Mr. Anon talk 10:34, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
  14. This will be very useful. I wanted to see the details of some moves, mostly for SSB. On SWF aren't as detailed as the example.Doomolish (talk) 02:33, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

OpposeEdit

  1. I hate to be the negative voice in this situation, but I must admit that I think this idea is not really worth the time investment. I think the hitbox repository pages and the moveset tables we already have on some of the Brawl character pages are sufficient; these, once thoroughly implemented, are probably detailed enough for most practical applications. Any highly significant results of this level of data detail (such as how it affects chaingrabs or something like that) should go into the main text of the page, rather than a subpage. I'd personally advocate that if this level of data is compiled somewhere (like a Smashboards thread), that we link to it instead. Something like "For a technical analysis of _____'s Brawl moveset, see [external link]." Miles (talk) 17:26, 25 April 2013 (EDT)
  2. I like the idea of _____/moveset, but the idea of a buch of pages covered with code on how the hitboxs work could confuse users new to the wiki. my idea is to keep the pages the same, but have this at the top; for a more in depht analyis of this character's moveset, see _____/moveset which, now that I think about it, sounds a lot like Miles' idea. Fedorakeeby11  Potato potato potato!! 11:12, 26 April 2013 (EDT)

CommentsEdit

Why should we link to Smashboards to show technical analysises? Aren't we working on a complete encyclopedia on Smash? We should try to avoid linking to external links for providing encyclopedic information, especially if we are capable of doing it on the site, and put the information on the wiki. Awesome Cardinal 2000 17:55, 25 April 2013 (EDT)

DP99: That's kind of rude. The amount of work necessary is certainly a valid reason to oppose, whether you're going to help or not. Toomai Glittershine   The Steppin' 18:19, 25 April 2013 (EDT)

Toomai, do you have some sample pages of how this would work? I'm curious to see if there is enough data in each move to satisfy a new page. I see the example image, but do you have it in article form by any chance? Mr. Anon talk 10:30, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

I do but it's in a place I don't think I have permission to disclose. Since the general pattern so far seems to be supportive, I plan to create some sample pages here (after asking for the relevant extensions). Toomai Glittershine   The Honcho 11:48, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
Alright the extensions are in, so now I can start work on the example page. This may take a few days. Toomai Glittershine   The Sharp 16:45, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
I believe the mockup is now complete, not counting writing the text. SSB64 and SSBM versions would look pretty much identical, with fewer attributes in the hitbox table. Toomai Glittershine   The Breegull 11:55, 7 May 2013 (EDT)

As an extra indication of how things would work, this is the new template that would be used for movesets on character pages. Toomai Glittershine   The Inconceivable 18:40, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

If nobody has any further objections, I've like to get this rolling soon. Toomai Glittershine   The Hammer 10:30, 22 May 2013 (EDT)

Hello, I’ve been somewhat active on SWF at Melee hitbox explanations and I would gladly contribute to this. Unfortunately I have hardly any experience in Wiki editing so I don’t know how I could create a Melee template. Can I use the Brawl template for now or is this a bad idea? Kadano (talk) 18:02, 28 May 2013 (EDT)
You probably could, since the physics and hitboxes in Melee and Brawl aren't too different. You could probably ask Toomai for help editing the templates if necessary. Thanks for helping :) Awesome Cardinal 2000 18:18, 28 May 2013 (EDT)
I will see if I can put together Melee and SSB64 versions of the relevant things tonight or tomorrow. Toomai Glittershine   The Chilled 19:04, 28 May 2013 (EDT)
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