Incineroar (SSBU): Difference between revisions
→Tier placement and history
Tag: Mobile edit |
|||
| (18 intermediate revisions by 14 users not shown) | |||
| Line 7: | Line 7: | ||
|availability = [[Unlockable character|Unlockable]] | |availability = [[Unlockable character|Unlockable]] | ||
|tier = C+ | |tier = C+ | ||
|ranking = | |ranking = 52 | ||
}} | }} | ||
<!-- | <!-- | ||
| Line 17: | Line 17: | ||
{{iw|wikipedia|Tyler Bunch}} (credited as "H.D. Quinn"), who voices {{iw|bulbapedia|Professor Kukui's Incineroar}} in the English dub of ''{{iw|bulbapedia|Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon}}'', reprises his role. In Japanese, Incineroar is voiced by {{iw|wikipedia|Unshō Ishizuka}}, who passed away 2 months and 19 days before Incineroar's reveal. Incineroar also has different voice actors for the French and German versions due to its name being different in those languages, being voiced by Frédéric Clou in French and an unidentified voice actor in German. | {{iw|wikipedia|Tyler Bunch}} (credited as "H.D. Quinn"), who voices {{iw|bulbapedia|Professor Kukui's Incineroar}} in the English dub of ''{{iw|bulbapedia|Pokémon the Series: Sun & Moon}}'', reprises his role. In Japanese, Incineroar is voiced by {{iw|wikipedia|Unshō Ishizuka}}, who passed away 2 months and 19 days before Incineroar's reveal. Incineroar also has different voice actors for the French and German versions due to its name being different in those languages, being voiced by Frédéric Clou in French and an unidentified voice actor in German. | ||
Incineroar is ranked | Incineroar is ranked 52nd out of 82 on the current [[tier list]], placing it in the C+ tier. Incineroar's main strength is its high damage power especially when fighting up close. It has several moves that have fast frame data and large hitboxes, which allows it to rack up damage quickly. In addition, Incineroar possesses several strong KO options, including three of its throws, [[Alolan Whip]], and most of its aerials. All of its moves are further powered up thanks to [[Revenge]], which allows Incineroar to not only tank a hit, but also deal even more damage the next time it attacks. Finally, Revenge and Incineroar's heavyweight allow it to survive to higher percents and take advantage of rage, making it even deadlier. | ||
However, Incineroar also has several weaknesses, most notably its sluggish movement in both the air and on the ground; its walking and dashing speed are the slowest in the game. This gives Incineroar a poor [[neutral game]], which combined with a lack of projectiles and somewhat short range, means it can have trouble getting close to those that can camp or outrange it. Furthermore, its KO moves are also somewhat inconsistent, as many of its moves either have sourspots that deal less damage and knockback or have poor knockback scaling; Revenge also does not last forever as there are several ways for it to disappear, including getting grabbed. This leads to Incineroar having to rely on either its throws or Alolan Whip to KO, which can become predictable. Finally, Incineroar's recovery is also lackluster due to [[Cross Chop]]'s limited horizontal distance if not used above or near the stage, which can lead into a [[self-destruct]] if not positioned properly. | However, Incineroar also has several weaknesses, most notably its sluggish movement in both the air and on the ground; its walking and dashing speed are the slowest in the game. This gives Incineroar a poor [[neutral game]], which combined with a lack of projectiles and somewhat short range, means it can have trouble getting close to those that can camp or outrange it. Furthermore, its KO moves are also somewhat inconsistent, as many of its moves either have sourspots that deal less damage and knockback or have poor knockback scaling; Revenge also does not last forever as there are several ways for it to disappear, including getting grabbed. This leads to Incineroar having to rely on either its throws or Alolan Whip to KO, which can become predictable. Finally, Incineroar's recovery is also lackluster due to [[Cross Chop]]'s limited horizontal distance if not used above or near the stage, which can lead into a [[self-destruct]] if not positioned properly. | ||
| Line 104: | Line 104: | ||
==Moveset== | ==Moveset== | ||
*Incineroar will display various animations after using | *Incineroar will display various animations after using its neutral attack, dash attack, all smash attacks and Alolan Whip; it strikes a boastful pose if an attack hits, and expresses frustration if it misses (during its smash attacks). Aside from neutral attack's third hit, all of these animations are [[interruptible]]. All pose-inducing attacks (excluding neutral attack's third hit) also result in a crowd (separate from the standard [[crowd]]) cheering in response. | ||
*Incineroar continuously receives damage while [[swimming]]. This trait is shared with {{SSBU|Charizard}}, {{SSBU|Sonic}}, and {{SSBU|Inkling}}. This | *Incineroar continuously receives damage while [[swimming]]. This trait is shared with {{SSBU|Charizard}}, {{SSBU|Sonic}}, and {{SSBU|Inkling}}. This references Incineroar being susceptible to water due to being a Fire-type Pokémon. | ||
''For a gallery of Incineroar's hitboxes, see [[Incineroar (SSBU)/Hitboxes|here]].'' | ''For a gallery of Incineroar's hitboxes, see [[Incineroar (SSBU)/Hitboxes|here]].'' | ||
| Line 118: | Line 118: | ||
|ftiltname=Throat Chop ({{ja|じごくづき|Jigoku Zuki}}, ''Hell Thrust'') | |ftiltname=Throat Chop ({{ja|じごくづき|Jigoku Zuki}}, ''Hell Thrust'') | ||
|ftiltdmg=13% (hand), 12% (arm) | |ftiltdmg=13% (hand), 12% (arm) | ||
|ftiltdesc=A knifehand thrust. It is a [[semi-spike]] and deals high damage for a tilt attack of its speed. It is the strongest forward tilt in the game in regard to KO potential; it KOs at 80% from the edge of {{SSBU|Final Destination}}, and at 116% from the center. It appears almost identical to the [[bulbapedia:Pokémon anime|''Pokémon'' anime]]'s depiction of {{iw|bulbapedia|Throat Chop}} | |ftiltdesc=A knifehand thrust. Can be angled. It is a [[semi-spike]] and deals high damage for a tilt attack of its speed. It is the strongest forward tilt in the game in regard to KO potential; it KOs at 80% from the edge of {{SSBU|Final Destination}}, and at 116% from the center. Despite possessing a sourspot, it is practically impossible to land unless initiated at very close range due to the sweetspot taking priority over the sourspot. It appears almost identical to the [[bulbapedia:Pokémon anime|''Pokémon'' anime]]'s depiction of {{iw|bulbapedia|Throat Chop}}. | ||
|utiltname=Jumping Headbutt ({{ja|ジャンピングヘッドバット|Janpingu Heddobatto}}) | |utiltname=Jumping Headbutt ({{ja|ジャンピングヘッドバット|Janpingu Heddobatto}}) | ||
|utiltdmg=9% | |utiltdmg=9% | ||
| Line 130: | Line 130: | ||
|fsmashname=Medullary Slash ({{ja|えんずいぎり|Enzuigiri}}) | |fsmashname=Medullary Slash ({{ja|えんずいぎり|Enzuigiri}}) | ||
|fsmashdmg={{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|16}} (leg), {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|20}} (foot) | |fsmashdmg={{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|16}} (leg), {{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|20}} (foot) | ||
|fsmashdesc=An [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Enzuigiri|enzuigiri]]. If it lands, Incineroar will gloat with its arms spread out, similarly to its down taunt. Conversely, it will fold its arms and clench its fists in dismay if it misses, though this animation is rarely seen due to the attack being interruptible before it plays. It has decent range and a sweetspot on Incineroar's foot; the sweetspot is strong enough to KO at 39% from the edge of Final Destination, and inflicts high [[shield damage]] as well. It is also fairly fast in spite of its power, thanks to it coming out on frame 16 | |fsmashdesc=An [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Enzuigiri|enzuigiri]]. If it lands, Incineroar will gloat with its arms spread out, similarly to its down taunt. Conversely, it will fold its arms and clench its fists in dismay if it misses, though this animation is rarely seen due to the attack being interruptible before it plays. It has decent range and a sweetspot on Incineroar's foot; the sweetspot is strong enough to KO at 39% from the edge of Final Destination, and inflicts high [[shield damage]] as well. It is also fairly fast in spite of its power, thanks to it coming out on frame 16, but its high ending makes it easy to punish, especially on shield. Although its sourspot has a respectable damage output, its knockback values result in its KO potential being underwhelming in comparison. Despite being small, the sourspot also takes priority over the sweetspot. | ||
|usmashname=Hammer Knuckle ({{ja|ハンマーナックル|Hanmā Nakkuru}}) | |usmashname=Hammer Knuckle ({{ja|ハンマーナックル|Hanmā Nakkuru}}) | ||
|usmashdmg={{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|17}} | |usmashdmg={{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|17}} | ||
|usmashdesc=An upward [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Double axe handle|double axe handle]]. If it lands, Incineroar will look to the sky and point upward, and it will clench its fists in dismay if it misses. It starts at ground level and has a rather big hitbox that covers the front of Incineroar and even reaches slightly behind it. It also grants intangibility to Incineroar's arms and hands throughout its active frames (frames 13-18). Although its damage output is respectable and consistent, these traits are counterbalanced slightly by its | |usmashdesc=An upward [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Double axe handle|double axe handle]]. If it lands, Incineroar will look to the sky and point upward, and it will clench its fists in dismay if it misses. It is Incineroar's fastest smash attack, both start-up and endlag-wise. It starts at ground level and has a rather big hitbox that covers the front of Incineroar and even reaches slightly behind it. It also grants intangibility to Incineroar's arms and hands throughout its active frames (frames 13-18). Although its damage output is respectable and consistent, these traits are counterbalanced slightly by its below-average knockback scaling. It KOs at 116% on Final Destination. | ||
|dsmashname=Body Press ({{ja|ボディプレス|Bodi Puresu}}) | |dsmashname=Body Press ({{ja|ボディプレス|Bodi Puresu}}) | ||
|dsmashdmg={{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|17}} | |dsmashdmg={{ChargedSmashDmgSSBU|17}} | ||
|dsmashdesc=A [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Big splash|jumping splash]]. If it lands, Incineroar will point its finger upward while on the floor, and it will pound its fist on the ground angrily if it misses. As Incineroar leaves the ground while using the move, it can dodge ground attacks and act as a hard [[punish]]. It inflicts moderately high shield damage and, like forward smash, it is incredibly powerful, KOing at 62% from the edge of Final Destination. However, it has considerable start-up and ending lag. | |dsmashdesc=A [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Big splash|jumping splash]]. If it lands, Incineroar will point its finger upward while on the floor, and it will pound its fist on the ground angrily if it misses. As Incineroar leaves the ground while using the move, it can dodge ground attacks and act as a hard [[punish]]. It inflicts moderately high shield damage and, like forward smash, it is incredibly powerful, KOing at 62% from the edge of Final Destination. However, it has considerable start-up and ending lag, being Incineroar's laggiest smash attack in both regards. | ||
|nairname=Flying Body Attack ({{ja|フライングボディアタック|Furaingu Bodi Atakku}}) | |nairname=Flying Body Attack ({{ja|フライングボディアタック|Furaingu Bodi Atakku}}) | ||
|nairdmg={{ShortHopDmgSSBU|13}} (clean), {{ShortHopDmgSSBU|7}} (late) | |nairdmg={{ShortHopDmgSSBU|13}} (clean), {{ShortHopDmgSSBU|7}} (late) | ||
| Line 183: | Line 183: | ||
|nsname=Darkest Lariat | |nsname=Darkest Lariat | ||
|nsdmg=17%/13% (clean hit 1), 12%/10% (late hit 1, hit 2), 11%/9% (hits 3-4), 10%/8% (hits 5-6), 8%/6% (hits 7-8) | |nsdmg=17%/13% (clean hit 1), 12%/10% (late hit 1, hit 2), 11%/9% (hits 3-4), 10%/8% (hits 5-6), 8%/6% (hits 7-8) | ||
|nsdesc=[[bulbapedia:Darkest Lariat (move)|Spins rapidly to perform a series of discus lariats]] and [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Spinning backfist|spinning backfists]]. It hits multiple times, with each hit becoming progressively weaker, but they launch opponents away instead of linking into each other. Incineroar gains [[invincibility]] during the move (frames 5 and 6 on its whole body, frame 7 on its head and arms, and frames 8-57 on its arms). It has extremely minimal start-up, and the entire move possesses [[transcendent priority]], | |nsdesc=[[bulbapedia:Darkest Lariat (move)|Spins rapidly to perform a series of discus lariats]] and [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling strikes#Spinning backfist|spinning backfists]]. It hits multiple times, with each hit becoming progressively weaker, but they launch opponents away instead of linking into each other. Incineroar gains [[invincibility]] during the move (frames 5 and 6 on its whole body, frame 7 on its head and arms, and frames 8-57 on its arms). It has extremely minimal start-up, and the entire move possesses [[transcendent priority]]; combined with its arm invincibility, this allows it to break through opposing attacks and weaker [[projectile]]s, aside from moves with sufficient range. Incineroar can move left or right slowly by holding a direction, and it even slows Incineroar's descent, though its slow speed means it is not suitable for recovery. Its early hit KOs at 108% from the edge of Final Destination. | ||
|ssname=Alolan Whip | |ssname=Alolan Whip | ||
|ssdmg=20% (lariat), 12% (back body drop), 4% (collision) | |ssdmg=20% (lariat), 12% (back body drop), 4% (collision) | ||
| Line 311: | Line 311: | ||
===Tier placement and history=== | ===Tier placement and history=== | ||
At the start of ''Ultimate'', Incineroar was considered a mid-tier fighter by most professionals thanks to its raw power and threatening KO potential. Incineroar also attained a decent amount of success from players, especially {{Sm|Magister}}, who placed well at both regional and majors. However, as the metagame progressed, Incineroar's sluggish movement began to work against it as it was unable to keep up with the fast, agile characters that were in the metagame. Likewise, Incineroar's representation also suffered, especially following Magister's lower activity and performance. As such, opinions on Incineroar fell, with many professionals considering | At the start of ''Ultimate'', Incineroar was considered a mid-tier fighter by most professionals thanks to its raw power and threatening KO potential. Incineroar also attained a decent amount of success from players, especially {{Sm|Magister}}, who placed well at both regional and majors. However, as the metagame progressed, Incineroar's sluggish movement began to work against it as it was unable to keep up with the fast, agile characters that were in the metagame. Likewise, Incineroar's representation also suffered, especially following Magister's lower activity and performance. As such, opinions on Incineroar fell, with many professionals considering it to be a low-tier or even bottom-tier character. | ||
The post-pandemic metagame saw a revival for Incineroar as dedicated mains began showcasing Incineroar's grappler archetype, specifically its high damage and KO potential. In particular, {{Sm|Skyjay}}'s greater presence on the | The post-pandemic metagame saw a revival for Incineroar as dedicated mains began showcasing Incineroar's grappler archetype, specifically its high damage and KO potential. In particular, {{Sm|Skyjay}}'s greater presence on the continental scene helped improve Incineroar's representation as Skyjay began consistently placing highly at majors, becoming a consistent top 50 threat by the end of 2021. Due to Incineroar's improving results, players reassessed Incineroar as a mid-tier once again, which is reflected in its position on the current tier list, where it is ranked 64th as a lower-mid tier on the first official tier list. Since then, many players argued that Incineroar should be ranked even higher, especially following an explosion of strong results from Skyjay which included his 2nd-place finish at {{Trn|Collision 2023}}. This vast rise in success for Incineroar throughout the year of 2023, primarily spearhead by strong results from Skyjay, would result in further improvement to its perception, resulting in Incineroar rising 12 spots and ranking 52nd on the second and current tier list as a mid tier, an improvement from its perceived low tier status in the early metagame. | ||
=={{SSBU|Classic Mode}}: Burning Pro Wrestling Spirit!== | =={{SSBU|Classic Mode}}: Burning Pro Wrestling Spirit!== | ||
| Line 622: | Line 622: | ||
|rowspan="2"|•[[Stamina battle]]<br>•The enemy heals over time | |rowspan="2"|•[[Stamina battle]]<br>•The enemy heals over time | ||
|{{SSBUMusicLink|Xenoblade Chronicles|Battle!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2}} | |{{SSBUMusicLink|Xenoblade Chronicles|Battle!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2}} | ||
|rowspan="2"| | |rowspan="2"|{{iw|xenoserieswiki|Dromarch}} | ||
|- | |- | ||
|style="background-color:#EEE;"|{{SSBUMusicLink|Xenoblade Chronicles|Gormott}}<ref group="SB" name="DLC"/> | |style="background-color:#EEE;"|{{SSBUMusicLink|Xenoblade Chronicles|Gormott}}<ref group="SB" name="DLC"/> | ||
| Line 648: | Line 648: | ||
|•The enemy is easily distracted by items | |•The enemy is easily distracted by items | ||
|{{SSBUMusicLink|Other|Monkey Watch}} | |{{SSBUMusicLink|Other|Monkey Watch}} | ||
| | |{{iw|rhwiki|Forthington}} | ||
|- | |- | ||
|1,309 | |1,309 | ||
| Line 723: | Line 723: | ||
*Leaked artwork of {{iw|bulbapedia|Alola}}'s fully evolved {{iw|bulbapedia|starter Pokémon}} depicts Incineroar using a [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling throws#Giant swing|giant swing]] and an {{h2|wikipedia:Backbreaker|Argentine backbreaker rack}} [[wikipedia:Backbreaker#Backbreaker drop|drop]].<ref>[http://66.media.tumblr.com/0250e03bd66ab9ca99dc62e78ecf5d7b/tumblr_o8adnyxaSF1qhkgqso1_540.jpg]</ref> In ''Ultimate'', it uses these moves as its forward throw and up throw, respectively. | *Leaked artwork of {{iw|bulbapedia|Alola}}'s fully evolved {{iw|bulbapedia|starter Pokémon}} depicts Incineroar using a [[wikipedia:Professional wrestling throws#Giant swing|giant swing]] and an {{h2|wikipedia:Backbreaker|Argentine backbreaker rack}} [[wikipedia:Backbreaker#Backbreaker drop|drop]].<ref>[http://66.media.tumblr.com/0250e03bd66ab9ca99dc62e78ecf5d7b/tumblr_o8adnyxaSF1qhkgqso1_540.jpg]</ref> In ''Ultimate'', it uses these moves as its forward throw and up throw, respectively. | ||
*{{iw|wikipedia|Unshō Ishizuka}} provided the Japanese voice for Incineroar in ''Ultimate'' before his unexpected passing on August 13, 2018. Ishizuka recorded all of his voice clips for the game before his death.<ref>https://nintendosoup.com/incineroar-was-voiced-by-the-now-deceased-professor-oak-voice-actor/</ref> | *{{iw|wikipedia|Unshō Ishizuka}} provided the Japanese voice for Incineroar in ''Ultimate'' before his unexpected passing on August 13, 2018. Ishizuka recorded all of his voice clips for the game before his death.<ref>https://nintendosoup.com/incineroar-was-voiced-by-the-now-deceased-professor-oak-voice-actor/</ref> | ||
**Incineroar's Japanese voice clips are much more muffled and lower in quality than in other languages, | **Incineroar's Japanese voice clips are much more muffled and lower in quality than in other languages, likely because Ishizuka was not able to return for ADR before his death, resulting in the development team having to use the voice clips as they originally were. Oddly, however, the voice clips appear to be in much higher quality in the Japanese version of its reveal trailer. | ||
*Incineroar's double jump fall animation notably has it descend lower than in its regular falling animation. This can result in it hitting the lower blast zone slightly earlier if it attempts to recover low on certain stages. | *Incineroar's double jump fall animation notably has it descend lower than in its regular falling animation. This can result in it hitting the lower blast zone slightly earlier if it attempts to recover low on certain stages. | ||
*Incineroar is the only playable Pokémon that does not have a special move based on a Pokémon move of its primary type. | *Incineroar is the only playable Pokémon that does not have a special move based on a Pokémon move of its primary type. | ||
| Line 738: | Line 738: | ||
*Incineroar is the second fighter to brandish a {{iw|wikipedia|championship belt}} in their [[victory pose]], with the first being {{SSBU|Little Mac}}. | *Incineroar is the second fighter to brandish a {{iw|wikipedia|championship belt}} in their [[victory pose]], with the first being {{SSBU|Little Mac}}. | ||
**Unlike Little Mac, who wears the World Video Boxing Association (WVBA) World Circuit Championship from [[mariowiki:Punch-Out!! (Wii)|the Wii version of ''Punch-Out!!'']], Incineroar's championship belt is unique to ''Ultimate''. | **Unlike Little Mac, who wears the World Video Boxing Association (WVBA) World Circuit Championship from [[mariowiki:Punch-Out!! (Wii)|the Wii version of ''Punch-Out!!'']], Incineroar's championship belt is unique to ''Ultimate''. | ||
*Aside from touching [[Pac-Jump]]'s red trampoline, Incineroar cannot render itself [[helpless]] apart from a very specific condition, this being landing with a [[Cross Chop]] and failing to touch solid ground during the initial rebound. It shares this trait with {{SSBU|Kirby}}, who can only experience helplessness if he slides off an edge during [[Final Cutter]] or | *Aside from touching [[Pac-Jump]]'s red trampoline, Incineroar cannot render itself [[helpless]] apart from a very specific condition, this being landing with a [[Cross Chop]] and failing to touch solid ground during the initial rebound. It shares this trait with {{SSBU|Kirby}}, who can only experience helplessness if he slides off an edge during [[Final Cutter]] or by copying {{SSBU|Meta Knight}} and using [[Mach Tornado]] in the air. | ||
*There is a visual glitch with Incineroar's eyes in spirit battles where it gains multiple irises when hit.<ref>[https://i.imgur.com/t1nofCq.jpg]</ref> | *There is a visual glitch with Incineroar's eyes in spirit battles where it gains multiple irises when hit.<ref>[https://i.imgur.com/t1nofCq.jpg]</ref> | ||
*Zooming in around Incineroar's neck during its reverse knockback animation reveals a gap between its neck and body.<ref>[https://imgur.com/a/eirC6A8]</ref> | *Zooming in around Incineroar's neck during its reverse knockback animation reveals a gap between its neck and body.<ref>[https://imgur.com/a/eirC6A8]</ref> | ||