User talk:MeatBall104/Changes for the Next Smash Game

Only smash attacks
Allowing characters to only use smash attacks (even when items are considered) is not going to buff any characters. Characters with really laggy smash attacks like Ike and King Dedede) will be easily punished and hit, making it easy to defeat them, and it just deprives all characters of their most powerful non-smash tactics (such as Meta Knight's Tornado and Snake's Grenades). Awesome   Cardinal   2000  18:36, 2 June 2014 (EDT)


 * Well admittedly I never thought of that. However, while that is something to take note of, if it doesn't completely buff the characters, then I guess that's fine. I need to make sure this mode is beatable after all. MeatBall104; With dirty rice on the side! 23:29, 2 June 2014 (EDT)

Your Ideas
I don't feel like I need to explain why having completely custom characters online with anyone would be a bad idea, but I will anyway. Completely Custom Characters would be stupidly overpowered, they could have endless combinations of power, speed, defense, and combo ability. (e.g. a Character the size, jumb number, and air speed of Jigglypuff with the weight of Bowser, the dashing and walking speed of Sonic, Lucario's Aura Sphere, Pikachu's Quick Attack, Fox's Reflector, Ness's PK Fire, Wolf's Forward tilt, Ike's Jab etc.) With the correct moves you could in theory make a flawless character, which Counters every other character in the game, and while this would be fun for a good romp with friends, it'd make online battles horribly one-sided and broken, simply put, there'd be no fun in playing online.On the topic of some of the other things you listed, I feel that the jumbotron would be hugely disruptive and at the very least should be toggleable, same thing goes for Stock ghosts. (who in my opinion shouldn't only be able to do phantom hits, since, you know) I don't think rules should be able to be changed mid-match, seems like it'd cause more fights than anything, Pinball Physics sounds cool, but I think it'd be better left as a special battle mode. Buddy system seems too complicated and would kinda overpower teams since the slightly lower jumps and slower speed wouldn't hurt much, although I like team final smashes, but they should at least be weaker and activated by something a bit harder/more sacrificial to do (i.e. damage their partner to some precentage, hit the smash ball at the same time, or even just touch your partner) they shouldn't just be applied to all team mates, or it could be applied to all team mates, but only one could use the final smash. Daredevil mode sounds awesome. Stage and Character Swap sound really cool, but in the case of Character swap, I think it should be limited to three characters that are swapped via the down taunt ala Pokemon Trainer. Also you mission mode idea just looks like updated event matches, and yes custom event matches would be awesome, but I doubt we'd actually be able to do the type of events you have in your mission mode, or even in brawl or melee, it's not like we can just code the enemy A.I. Sure we'd be able to set "Goals" and "Things not to do" but that seems as far as it'd go. all the "Technical changes" would be nice, but I think we need a "more free" camera, as having a 100% free camera would require a lot more work on the stages, and look unprofessional. (when you zoom way out, and all the way around for instance) I'm kinda neutral on Back Special moves, I think they'd add an interesting level to some character, but they'd be kinda redundant/mess up other characters. (such as Link, not being able to immediately throw his boomerang backwards, or Wolf not being able to recover correctly) Underwater battles seem really interesting, and I can see nothing wrong with them, it seems really fun. Overall, I don't like most of the things you listed, I feel like they'd disrupt gameplay too much. But still, it's nice to see someone else's opinions on how the game should be made.... I only just now realized how long I made this comment O,o Sorry about the length and if I sound kinda rambly, but do know that I mean you no offense with this comment. Laikue (talk) 18:45, 8 August 2014 (EDT)


 * First of all, there is absolutely no need to apologize for anything! I take no offense to anything you said, and I didn't mind the length of your post. (In fact, I'd rather have my opinions challenged via wall of text instead of just small sentences only addressing one thing). Now onto your criticisms...


 * 1) I'd agree with the brokenness of using CCCs online, (Yes, that's what I'm calling them), but I only said that they could be used online since numerous fans are complaining about the inability to use custom characters online, and I wanted to satisfy them.
 * 2) On the subject of the Jumbotron, I fully understand. I actually got the inspiration for it from the Mario Sports games, in which the game would constantly pause and show slow-mo replays of various things, and you could never toggle it off.
 * 3) For the mid-match rule-changing, I did not think of that. I guess I'll disable it for multiplayer then?
 * 4) As for the Pinball Physics, I actually intended for them to be the game's main physics. (Meaning that the physics will be however Sakurai designs them to be, but with the addition of the details listed in that specific section on my page). Also, I don't fully get your criticism for it. Am I really the only one here who finds it utterly satisfying to throw/punch enemies into each other in a videogame? It definitely increases the level of interaction with your opponents, and it also opens up new opportunities for fighting strategy.
 * 5) As far as the buddy system goes, I don't quite see what you're getting at when you say "overpowering", since the team moves will only be as overpowering as the players make them to be. My intention is to make Team Battles more worth playing, and to make it easier for novice players.
 * 6) Good to hear you approve of Daredevil Mode!
 * 7) I guess three is a decent number...
 * 8) For some clarification, the Custom Event Matches and the Mission Mode are meant to be completely separate modes, meaning that the custom events cannot be based on the missions listed on the page. (Speaking of the missions, I just got an idea to create your own Target Smash stages, but I'll add that later). And for the Custom Events, I said nothing about programming the AI, as these events will be just like the ones in Brawl, (y'know, just defeating some CPUs or whatever).
 * 9) For the Free Camera, I didn't think of that.
 * 10) In the case of the Back-Specials, I never took any of what you said to mind when I wrote that down. It's intended for characters whose other specials don't damage those behind them, and if it means hindering their abilities, then I guess that's acceptable. Nerfs always happen whenever a new Smash game comes out after all.
 * 11) Glad to see you like the Underwater battles!


 * MeatBall104; Prepare your anus! 22:16, 8 August 2014 (EDT)
 * Can you actually elaborate on Pinball mode? I'm currently seeing more like a game of pool, where when you hit something into another it pretty much stops the momentum of the the first thing which too me seems like too major a change, but anyway I'm glad you like the criticism!
 * One thing to note about re-using voice clips (even though I completely agree with it) is that the voice clips are usually added late into development, and the voice clips are most likely place holders. (considering that pit has several different voice clips from TWO actors in the demo, I think the same is also with Sonic, but I'm not positive.)
 * Three characters in a swap-out is just my opinion (as I think they should work like Pokemon Trainer, but without Stamina) you could have four if you wanted.
 * On the topic of back-special moves, like I said I'm neutral on them, nerfs happen every smash game and to be fair, it'd probably do more good than harm, and I agree with your statement. For team battles, I was actually thinking more on classic mode for some reason (where on very hard they'd be massively broken for the CPU) as for in regular battles, I'm still not sold on the idea, one of my worries is how moves like Teleport, Pikmin Pluck, Monkey Flip, Fire Fox, Thunder, Lloyd Rocket, Eruption, Aether, C4, Wario Waft would work without looking incredibly awkward, or damaging your partner. (in the case of Team attack, which is almost always on at tournaments) Also, how would Ice Climbers work into this, would they both get on, say, Pikachu's back, or could only one get on, could you ride Popo, or could you also ride Nana, or are you riding both at the same time? That's another thing, it'd look incredibly awkward having some characters ride certain other characters, like Bowser riding Pichu. Though this is easily fixed by only allowing characters of an equal or lower weight to ride on the backs of other character (i.e. anyone can ride on Bowser, no one can ride on Jigglypuff) This also pseudo fixes one of my other complaints of Jigglypuff, and Kirby being over-powered in doubles now, since they'd both still be able to get around pretty well with great jumps. As for team Final Smashes, I'm completely against them now, they'd be Game Breaking. Here are some Examples, Zero Suit Samus and Snake's final smash, they'd look very weird together at the same time, and having two cursors would be confusing. Or for instance Captain Falcon and Marth's final smash, what would happen? Would Captain Falcon trap the opponents while Marth does nothing, or SDs if he's on top? Or Ice Climber's Iceberg falling to pitiful Sizes as the result of Triforce Slash. Or two Great Aethers, most likely only one will catch anything, and if the second one catches anything it'd look horribly awkward, and unprofessional, Same goes for Double Icebergs, and Double Gigally Puff (So much clipping). As for overpowered ones, two Giga Bowsers, Peach Blossom and any transformation, any strong directional final smash and strong transformation (causing at least four KOs against your opponents). I could go on forever but I think you get the point. Even if they were to modify the final smashes to accommodate for these things, there'd have to be 54872 Final Smashes (Note this is assuming every possible combination of three final smashes for the current amount of characters announced for Smash 4, if we were to assume we get, say 61 characters in Smash 5, then the number would actually be 226981. Which is largely impossible.) and that is an overpoweringly high amount of final smashes, which no team of developers could ever pull off. And let's say you can activate them one by one that'd still be crazy over-powered, and again, allow at least four KOs. Overall if you can come up with a fix for the listed problems and just remove team Final Smashes all together, I think it'd be a nice type of change.
 * I really like the idea of Custom events and I guess there could be pre-set AI for event matches, and like pokeball/assist trophy rate modifiers, my only problem is that if these aren't included it'd basically be setting up a standard match with a specific agenda. (which we can pretty much already do, just not fancily) I think Mission mode would also be cool, but for some reason I can't see them as more than a different type of event match. I guess character specific ones for like pulling off combos (ala UMvC3) would be cool, but the missions you listed seemed more like event matches.
 * Custom Target Test stages actually would be really simple to program, just take the standard stage builder which (as you said) is already upgraded, and add the ability to place targets. As for the targets themselves, they'd come in 5 sizes (Very Big, Easy, Light Blue. Big, Normal, Green. Medium, Hard, Yellow. Small, Very Hard, Orange. Very Small, Intense, Red.) and you could set their move path, and speed. They'd probably simply have a standard 0-6 speed thing with 0 being still, 5 being fast, and 6 being warp like. (i.e. Falco's Targets in Melee) You'd be able to set paths near infinite in length, you could close it into a loop (e.g. that one damn target in Brawl's Level 4) or leave it open, and have them follow the path backwards (e.g. that one target that moves through the wall in Brawl's Level 4) there'd also be an option to stall targets from moving for a certain amount of time. (to keep it simple you'd be able to select a stall rate of 1-10 with 1 being a 5th of a second (12 frames), and 10 being 2 seconds (120 Frames)) I know you wanted to do this yourself but I couldn't help myself, sorry....
 * Using CCCs online would still probably be a bad Idea, I mean we should be able to use regular customs online, yes, but CCCs would still be waaaaaaay to over-powered in my opinion.
 * Also I never really mentioned background stages, they do look cool, but I feel like they should only be on a few special stages, not like an option for multiple regular stages, since they seem like they'd probably promote an insane amount of camping.
 * That's all I have to say for now, I've been rambling on for a long while now lol, well um..... I don't know how to end talk posts....... Laikue (talk) 12:44, 9 August 2014 (EDT)