Forum:Move names

For too long, we have gone without a standard for what's considered an accepted source (outside of direct mentions by the Smash series) for naming characters' moves. That's about to change here.  Serpent   King  23:38, 22 January 2018 (EST)

When voting Please it clear whether you support or oppose each preferably by bolding it.

Nintendo power
Support, as it's too difficult to come up with other names for moves, and we should have more data than we do. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 23:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)

I vote for the Nintendo Power guides to be the source in this one. Nintendo Power used to be a legal division of Nintendo, on which descriptions used to be pretty accurate on whatever the topic was, no matter which one. Besides, some Japanese speaking people were able to translate, in a way, the moves of characters from their Japanese guides, technically making the names from the Nintendo Power guides official. As a result, I'll choose this one as my cup of tea. -- Beep (talk)  23:45, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Support because nothing makes us look more unprofessional and unreliable than using material that's not from the company itself (despite being discontinued after publication). But it's also silly to keep so many blanks on the moves list whilst only filling in the four special moves. Nergal06 (talk) 23:49, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Lean towards oppose, ambiguously official content. Miles ( talk)  23:50, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Support for the reasons already listed, plus Nintendo Power move names are already consistent with the ones stated in the game (Lightning Kick, Knee Smash, etc); I'm assuming Nintendo of America translated SSBM from Japanese, and NP is also a part of Nintendo of America, so the move names seem official. SeraphStar (talk) 01:35, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Mention only per Miles. Nyargle blargle'''  (Contribs) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support it's official so...  Alex Parpotta the  flying lobster!  11:26, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support. At least it is associated with Nintendo of America. That's something unlike the below option.  MH  StarCraft  12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support, seeing as how it's technically a closer match to the official localizations of the games (being a Nintendo property) than... some others. Bacon Mastre  17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)

Prima
Neutral, possibly support, for this is a third party source that doesn't necessarily know the official names. But then again, so is Nintendo Power, so you can see the bind I'm in. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 23:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Maximum oppose, outrageously unreliable. Miles ( talk)  23:50, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Complete and utter oppose. Prima guides have never been that reliable at giving out information to begin with. I'm completely siding with Miles on this one. -- Beep (talk)  23:54, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Oppose per others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyargleblargle (talk • contribs) 07:06, January 23, 2018

No. Aidan,  the Rurouni  10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Lol oppose. Prima has been know for their errors and bias in strategy guides.  MH  StarCraft  12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Obvious opposition because Prima is notorious for... y'know. Being generally false and unreliable. Bacon Mastre  17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)

Oppose for the reasons stated above. Spexx (talk) 19:55, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

Comparable moves from each characters' source games
Full support - this is the one I support the most. Nobody can know the move names better than the games from which the characters came from. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 23:44, 22 January 2018 (EST)

I support if it's the same or very close to the source. ZombieZlayer (talk) 23:43, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Oppose I fail to understand how it can be considered acceptable to have move names taken from other games without any source claiming that they are in fact the same move as in Smash.  Serpent   King  23:47, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Oppose, not used consistently in existing cases (like special moves), so applying these wholesale seems like a poor idea. Furthermore, Smash moves and source material aren't reliably 1:1. Miles ( talk)  23:50, 22 January 2018 (EST)

Oppose because it's inconsistent. Not every SSBM move comes from a native game. For example, Ganandorf in SSBM is nothing at all like Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, etc. There will be too many unnamed moves. SeraphStar (talk) 01:37, 23 January 2018 (EST)
 * I fail to see what relevancy this opposition has. Original moves aren't an unusual thing to Smash. This isn't about whether every single move has a name; this is about moves that are clearly based on attacks from a character's home series being named here, even if they aren't named officially as such by Nintendo. Aidan,  the Rurouni  08:17, 23 January 2018 (EST)
 * I just don't see why we'd want to use a method that would leave so many gaps. SeraphStar (talk) 15:12, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Oppose per SK, plus where do we consider the line to be drawn with "comparable"? Nyargle blargle'''  (Contribs) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support While we don't want to make claims that do not chronologically make sense, I do think it's fair to at least use the obvious ones. Aidan, the Rurouni  10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support.  MH  StarCraft  12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support. A number of characters have moves based directly upon other games' moves (see something like this, which is a very clear use of the Mega Upper seen in other fighting games), so it would make sense to do this as long as it isn't too much of a stretch. To be fair, the aforementioned reference is a known one, but there are likely others with names that can properly be attributed. Bacon Mastre  17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)

Oppose - We should aim to be as accurate as possible. If the move is never explicitly stated to be the same (such as Ryu's moves), we should't assume. What if it turns out that it actually wasn't the same move? Spexx (talk) 19:55, 14 March 2018 (EDT)

Whatever matches the Japanese names, regardless of source
Do This. It's pretty simple. If an English name matches the Japanese name, it's good. If we don't know the Japanese names for some characters' moves but the same source is correct for other characters, odds are it's correct for everyone in that game. If a move doesn't change between games, it keeps the same name. This is what should be done, what should have always been done from day 1, and what will be done. Toomai Glittershine The Spark 06:47, 23 January 2018 (EST)
 * Not to sound like a 'yes' man, but this definitely sounds like the best option of all. I support it fully. Black Vulpine  of the Furry Nation.  Furries make the internets go! :3  07:54, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support, but we might need to spell out that the source should be produced or endorsed by Nintendo. Nyargle blargle'''  (Contribs) 08:06, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support, since this is a reasonable thing to do if we don't agree on using source material. Though, as a side note, what would this mean for moves that are named in Japanese, but not in English? Aidan, the Rurouni  10:15, 23 January 2018 (EST)
 * What's the Japanese name? This move is called Bicycle Kick in the SSBM player's guide by NP. I know the link is to SSB4 but the move is the same. SeraphStar (talk) 15:19, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Support. Easy and simple to follow this way.  MH  StarCraft  12:32, 23 January 2018 (EST)

This is wholly unclear and needs at least one example, preferably more. Miles ( talk)  22:29, 24 January 2018 (EST)
 * It's mostly a transitive process. First, find sources that list English names for SSB64 moves and check them against the known Japanese move names to determine which sources have official names for the Original 12. Assume that the same sources will have official names for the other characters in the other games, using specific known cases to check (e.g. "Justice Sword") and potentially disqualify from future games. If we find a Japanese source, they match what we have, and we can't find any English source for that character, we do minimal translation. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Boss 06:39, 25 January 2018 (EST)
 * Where do we get the Japanese names? Why are those considered official? SeraphStar (talk) 15:37, 25 January 2018 (EST)

That deserves a support for this one! Fire Breath is Koopa Breath or Bowser Breath in Japanese. Some moves are identical to the Japanese version but with different spelling. Dragonfirebreath25 (talk) 09:50, 25 January 2018 (EST)

Support only if the name comes from a reliable source that has some loose connection to another (Nintendo-based) source. Reliability should always be first and foremost in my opinion so it would be better to leave some moves nameless if it's impossible to find names for them and to add names to moves if there is enough consistency across several mediums. Nergal06 (talk) 15:56, 25 January 2018 (EST)
 * The official SSB site good enough?  Serpent SKSig.png  King  16:04, 25 January 2018 (EST)

What's happening with this whole thing? And I'm still not sure about this particular method because I still don't understand where we get the Japanese names from and what makes those official. SeraphStar (talk) 22:49, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Support because it makes logical sense to do so for the aforementioned reasons. Bacon Mastre  17:40, 3 March 2018 (EST)

By "Japanese name," do we mean official Nintendo sources, such as early Smash websites and Sakurai's own words, some of which have yet to be translated? If so, this suggestion has my support. The other choices range from opening a huge can of worms to downright disastrous, so this is probably the only good option anyway.  John   HUAH!  20:16, 14 March 2018 (EDT)