Template talk:SSB4 character table

Separate Mii characters
I think that the three Mii types (Gunner, Swordfighter, Brawler) should be separated on the characters table. These are clearly three different characters, and though they should be in the same cell in the table to match Melee and Brawl's page (for characters like Sheik and Pokemon Trainer), there should be links to each of the three character types. The only way there now is to click on Mii Fighter and then navigate to the right type, which is an unnecessary extra click. Just my opinion. Rekameohs (talk) 01:12, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * They're grouped together on the official website and share an icon on the character select screen. It could go either way, really. Miles ( talk)   01:19, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Things would fit just as snugly if we separate them and they are indeed all unique from one another (I'm pretty sure none of them even share a move), another solution would be to somehow list the name of each individual fighter in small text under the Mii Fighter Title, but I'm leaning towards just flat-out separating them, even if they are all the same "character" Laikue (talk|contribs) 02:30, 15 September 2014 (EDT)

Mewtwo
Would it make more sense to just put an asterisk next to Mewtwo's name and then a note at the bottom stating the asterisk is for DLC? I feel like the table might look a little better that way. Master Zach (talk) 10:34, 24 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Italics would work better, actually (not just because we already did it, but because it would just be better).  Rtzxy [[File:SmashSig.jpeg]]  Smashing!  10:46, 24 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Since italics won't work should we try asterisks now? Master Zach (talk) 08:22, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Italics would work. It just got removed because we might use them for another thing. I dunno about asterisks, because the wiki code puts a * as a bullet point. Sure, there's a way to go around it, but still, I dunno about that one. Aidan   the Gamer  18:47, 25 October 2014 (EDT)

Duck Hunt
What happened to the Duck Hunt image? ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is a never lover boy 23:49, 30 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Someone seems to have applied the speedy-delete template to it in such a way that the redirect doesn't work anymore. I'll just fix the links and delete the redirect. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Incomprehensible 23:57, 30 October 2014 (EDT)

Here's an idea
We make two separate character table templates; one for Wii U, and one for 3DS. The 3DS one would be used for the 3DS version's page and have all its unlockables bolded, whereas the Wii U one would be for the Wii U version's page and have only its unlockables bolded.

Sure, it might be time consuming, but it's still a thought to throw out. Aidan  the Gamer  09:46, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 * Or we could discuss this a little more, which would be a bit simpler to solve the issue with (have two icons instead of two templates or a bold/italic combo). Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 10:02, 2 December 2014 (EST)
 * Interesting. That's a very interesting setup, Toomai. Though...I don't know how well it would fit on the other pages. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]] Aidan  the Gamer  10:35, 2 December 2014 (EST)

Separate DLC characters
I think we should move Mewtwo and Lucas to their own section. Since they're planning on releasing at least one character from the ballot, that means we'll have three. They should be separated for easy access/viewing. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 22:09, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Support Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 22:10, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Massive oppose. The DLC characters are an integral part of the full roster of the game and should not be separated. Miles ( talk)   22:15, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * What about over here? Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 22:26, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * What about it? Mewtwo and Lucas are both veterans and are appropriately sorted as such. Miles ( talk)   22:28, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * What? Wait no, that's not what I meant. I meant make their own section on this table, like the difference between veterans and newcomers. Not their own template. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 22:30, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * That's not what I meant either. What I'm saying is, if Project M can have its own section for Mewtwo and Roy, then why can't Smash 4 do the same with Mewtwo and Lucas? Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 22:32, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * That comparison does nothing for me. I'm still quite thoroughly opposed to us having PM character pages in the first place. Miles ( talk)   22:45, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * ...what does this have to do with PM characters having pages? Our point is, Mewtwo and Lucas now belong to a third category (it became a category when it applied to multiple characters), which needs to be distinct from the first two. There should be separation between them by headers. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 22:48, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Oppose I think just noting that they're DLC will suffice. Berrenta (talk) 22:49, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Now that we have four DLC characters, I support this change. Not everyone buys DLC, they seem very out of place to me.  Toast  Wii U Logo Transparent.png ltimatum  06:12, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * DLC is an unlock method, and that's not how the table is not currently sorted that way. It would be inconsistent (and in my opinion, a downgrade) to separate out DLC characters. Miles ( talk)   06:17, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I don't like that reasoning one bit. The DLC characters weren't originally intended, acting like they're part of the main cast with their annoying DLC labels is very irksome. My 3DS game has no Mewtwo on it, this table makes that look inexcusable. Toast  Wii U Logo Transparent.png ltimatum  06:23, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I strongly disagree, but at the moment we have more pressing issues to deal with. Bump this in a week when we're not trying to keep up with live current events. Miles ( talk)   06:29, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * How about we do a testing period? Move the DLC characters down below the newcomers and just see how the community reacts to the change? If it is an overall positive reaction we keep it, if its mostly negative, we change it back. Ixbran (talk) 22:07, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * "Testing periods" are a terrible idea when it comes to trying things on a wiki. It's not like we don't know what it'd look like one way or the other. Miles ( talk)   00:12, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

I am reviving this conversation simply because of the fact that now we have a lot more DLc characters. We have a total of 4 DLC characters now, and I have a feeling it is just going to keep growing. I believe that it would be best that we have the DLC characters in their own section, if only because as time passes, there is a good chance more will keep coming. and in that event, as the way things are now, the current two categories are just going to keep on growing. And the Veterans section is already pretty f'ing huge. Ixbran (talk) 20:19, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I still support. Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 20:22, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Strong support. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 20:48, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Support. It would probably look okay and make the template a bit easier to navigate. I'll do a mock up once I finish Lucas's moveset table. Nyargle blargle  (Talk) 20:50, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Separating the DLC characters is out of the question in my mind. They're a part of the games' roster, and not buying them is equivalent to not having unlocked a non-DLC character. There's no need to separate them whatsoever. Miles ( talk)  21:05, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I'm not saying they're apples and oranges, but the DLC characters aren't part of the core game. Heck, they even have their own section on the website, separate from starter and unlockable characters. Nyargle blargle  (Talk) 21:16, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * If the website even keeps the DLC characters separated from the in-game characters, then I REALLY support the idea of moving them to their own row. Ixbran (talk) 21:31, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

If you want to have DLC characters in a separate category, then you'll have to change the other two categories from "Veterans" and "Newcomers" to "Starters" and "Unlockables", as the categories are supposed to be mutually exclusive. No ifs ands or buts.

As for my preference, see here. (It's not updated but you get the idea.) Toomai Glittershine The Multifaceted 21:33, 14 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I disagree that it has to be mutually exclusive. But, if that's what we have to do, then we can't do it at all because the starter/unlockable is different between versions :/
 * Also, sorry, but I don't like that table. Seems cluttered. Idk why. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 21:36, 14 June 2015 (EDT)

Better Lucas image
File:SSB4_Lucas.png Thanks goes to NintendoNinjaCarson. Laikue (talk | contribs) 22:59, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * I'd be glad to add it once this is addressed. Miles ( talk)   23:23, 1 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Per Laikue. I really care more about the orange background being gone than "suspiciously high resolution".--Meester Tweester (talk) 00:09, 13 April 2015 (EDT)

Ryu's position
I simply believe he should go next to Mega Man, since they're from the same company. Also, putting Pac-Man after Mega Man doesn't make any sense anyway since Pac-Man was made before Mega Man and the "Mega Man has a better history with Nintendo" excuse is weak, considering how many times Mario and Pac-Man have crossed over. Laikue (talk | contribs) 12:53, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * It's chronological by order of announcement for Smash. This is how Smash itself sorts them in several places (Trophy Boxes, stage select, etc.) Miles ( talk)   12:57, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * That's not even correct. Why is Mac before Wii Fit then? Or Yoshi next to the Mario characters, when he should be after Metroid? Or even the placements of Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, and Mewtwo? (Considering that this is the Sm4sh order) And Dark Pit comes before Palutena in most non-CSS based menus. I really think that Ryu should be next to Mega Man, I mean, they're from the same company, which for Third Parties is almost like being from the same series. Laikue (talk | contribs) 13:28, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Clarification: only 3rd parties are sorted that way. The whole scheme can be found here. Miles ( talk)   13:32, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Why though? Honestly, what's your reasoning behind it, Pac-Man comes before Mega Man in EVERYTHING. Laikue (talk | contribs) 13:45, 13 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Blatantly false, the only place Pac-Man comes before Mega Man is the CSS. Every other in-game listing puts Mega Man content before Pac-Man content. Check your physical and digital manuals. Check the stage select screen. Check the trophy series order, including Trophy Boxes. Check the Sound Test. The CSS is the definite outlier here. Miles ( talk)   13:47, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

I agree that Ryu should be next to Mega Man, since they're both Capcom. However, the whole Pac-Man/Mega Man placement thing is fine how it is. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 10:07, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

Remove '(DLC)' and make names Italic
Do you think we should remove the '(DLC)' part of the name, make the DLC Characters names Italic, and add a note at the bottom saying "Italics denotes DLC Characters"? I think it'd make the table look a bit more clean. --ComJay (talk) 10:09, 15 June 2015 (EDT)
 * I suggested that a while back for Mewtwo, but I think we should do it since we have more than Mewtwo now. Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 10:10, 15 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Oops, I didn't realise this was already discussed above. But still, it's a good idea. --ComJay (talk) 10:11, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

Mii Fighter slots
Has anyone noticed that the Mii Fighters have their slots a bit wider than the rest? as far as I recall, this was done for fitting purposes. When more characters got added in the roster (the DLC ones), Miis still kept their wider slots. Currently, the slots can have the same size as the rest and still get centered. I mean, from this:

...to this:

Also, is there a reason for this template to still be protected?

--Byllant (talk) 02:20, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
 * I made the Miis table cells double-width to reduce the amount of empty space, and it seemed to work out since the point of Mii Fighters is that they give you the ability to make multiple characters yourself. Miles ( talk)   10:10, 8 September 2015 (EDT)
 * He does make a good case...I'm with Miles here. Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 10:14, 8 September 2015 (EDT)

Picture of Cloud without Green Background
File:Cloud.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crowbars (talk • contribs)
 * Source? Nyargleblargle.png Nyargle blargle (Talk | Contribs) 17:26, 13 November 2015 (EST)
 * It looks like the original image, except at significantly lower res and transparency. If it was official, like the others, it would be at least 600x600. Just my opinion, wait for them to respond. Dek Zek Dekzeksig.png 17:32, 13 November 2015 (EST)

We can afford to wait for an official render, thanks. Miles ( talk)  17:38, 13 November 2015 (EST)

Yuuuck
Okay, the new layout is just bleeeech. Anyone have any better ideas? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by SANTY  CLAWS ! Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 19:44, 15 December 2015 (EST)
 * Sorry, I don't have any personal suggestions. PikachuMS.png Pika,   Chilly!  19:49, 15 December 2015 (EST)

It's a little better now but still a little weird... ---Preceding unsigned comment added by SANTY  CLAWS ! Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:48, 15 December 2015 (EST)

Could we maybe do a combination of Miles' and SK's? Have them shrunk like Miles has it but put Cloud and Bayonetta on either side like SK had it? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by SANTY  CLAWS ! Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:56, 15 December 2015 (EST)
 * That looks horrendous, which is why I removed it. The Miis should always be absolutely last in the table. Miles ( talk)   20:58, 15 December 2015 (EST)
 * I think horrendous is a bit of an overstatement. Because it is a center-aligned table, the center looks like the proper place for the final listing. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by SANTY  CLAWS ! Or maybe DatNuttyKid.  21:00, 15 December 2015 (EST)

Based on DBM2's plan for SSBD
Could we replace the bold and bold italics for unlockable characters with colored links in blue and red? (Blue being both versions but colored after Wii U, red being 3DS-only) Idk I just feel like this would work better. So it would be, ', '. My biggest concern would be that the 3DS unlockables would just look like redlinks, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too similar. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:23, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Seems like a rather interesting idea. I'd be okay with it. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  17:23, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Also, can't this be unlocked now? :/ ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * ...Bit iffy on this one. Why does this change need to happen? It seems fine to me as is. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   17:28, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Doesn't need it; current version is fine. Miles ( talk)  17:29, 12 January 2016 (EST)

(edit conflict) I don't think it necessarily needs to, but I do think it'd look better, and it actually has a reason for the choice, whereas bold italics have nothing to do with 3DS-exclusive unlockables. Plus, there'd be less text in the note at the bottom. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:30, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I personally disagree with the "it looks better" claim, but that's just me. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   17:34, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * It'd be nice if I could actually use preview to look at it, but y'know, page is locked for a reason we still haven't been supplied with. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:35, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I actually agree that it shouldn't be protected still now that DLC is over. I have taken it down, but I'm prepared to put it back up if need be. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   17:40, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Some people are still listing fake DLC announcements and the like, so I don't think we should give them more to work with, especially with a rarely edited table. Nyargle blargle'''  (Contribs) 17:41, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I mean, by that logic shouldn't we protect everything? There's no reason to believe this would be vandalized more than any other page, and it's still autoconfirmed-only. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:42, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I am willing to give it a chance. If non-officials get put up here, I'll reprotect. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   17:44, 12 January 2016 (EST)

This is how the table would look with the changes proposed. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:52, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Looks horrendous to me. I still don't understand how this is supposed to be an improvement, or even what the supposed issue with the current layout is. (also why are you using Comic Sans) Miles ( talk)   17:54, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Looks bad to me too. Miles, you really can't dis anyone for comic sans, though. Look at your sig. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   17:55, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Also, for clarity, that's his CSS (I think) Serpent  SKSig.png  King   17:56, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * (edit conflict x2) why are you so over-protective over this template that anything that goes against you is "horrendous"? It's one thing to dislike it, but horrendous is way too strong a word. As you have said, this doesn't really change anything - if it's horrendous, it's your beloved template's fault.
 * There's not a supposed issue, I just thought using colors is a little more consistent with how we usually put differences between 3DS and Wii U, and also have better reasoning.
 * and I use comic sans cuz I like it. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:57, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * now responding to SK.
 * I don't see how it could make it look bad? It's not that huge of a change.
 * And yeah, it's my CSS. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 17:57, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I apologize if my wording came across as overly harsh. Also, where do we use colored text to indicate SSB4 version differences? Miles ( talk)   18:00, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Here for the exact same thing. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 18:02, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I don't like the colored text, but we could do the colored background, like that table. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   18:04, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * I'd like to see an example of that. (Idk how to do colored backgrounds on tables >.>) ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 18:05, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * The difference is that the cells on that table are very small, compared to the much larger ones here. I think it would be a lot more distracting visually to add color-based distinctions here. Miles ( talk)   18:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)

(reset indent) can we see instead of think? ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 18:10, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * here. Personally, I like it. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   18:14, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Completely ruins the table's symmetry and looks very very messy. I don't think I could be more opposed to this. Miles ( talk)   18:18, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Right because a table with different characters on either side of it had symmetry... Serpent  SKSig.png  King   18:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * (edit conflict as usual) Yeahhh it does kind of throw off the symmetry... ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 18:22, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Rob using the wrong default on this table
Currently, Rob uses his Famicom colors instead of his NES colors, despite the former not being the default in english-speaking countries. In my opinion, that should be changed. 72.219.72.215 01:29, October 7, 2020 (EDT)