Talk:Mario (universe)

Marioverse??
Is this really the term we've settled on? Isn't Mushroom Kingdom specific enough?

-- Randall00 02:24, February 1, 2007 (GMT)

Giant page rewrite: Model for other pages?
Okay, so I magically pulled this page out of a hat. I gave a historical Franchise Description section because, let's face it, part of the reason for the global success of the Smash bros. series is that it features game universes and characters already beloved by gamers, so I think SmashWiki's universe pages should have general descriptions that tell the Smash player/reader what kind of franchise source material they're playing with. The franchise description section I have here is a concise overview of everything Mario (I think), and it's much less expansive and bloated than what's on Wikipedia, so I think that's what readers of the Smashwiki would like to see. I also think that making all the universe pages like this would make each one a swell directory for all franchise-related content for that franchise. One question: Should Yoshi have his own sub-universe page like DK will? Erik the Appreciator 03:25, February 17, 2007 (GMT)


 * Excellent edits, but this still should be called Mushroom Kingdom. -- Randall00 08:08, February 17, 2007 (GMT)


 * Thanks. And well, it doesn't really matter to me what everyone else decides to call the page itself; I myself would have preferred Mario universe, since Mushroom Kingdom refers to the unlockable SSB stage. Erik the Appreciator 19:49, February 17, 2007 (GMT)


 * Easily solved with a little: "''This article refers to the SSB stage. For the Mario universe, please see Mushroom Kingdom (universe)." -- Randall00 20:55, February 17, 2007 (GMT)


 * In fact, screw it, I'm gonna do that now. -- Randall00 20:56, February 17, 2007 (GMT)

Okay, so I now created Donkey Kong (universe) and am planning to create similar pages for Yoshi and Wario. The question that's on my mind now: Should I go through this Marioverse page and remove all Yoshi and DK-related items from the various character and stage lists in this page? And have those sections provide links to the sub-universe pages? I think that would make the various universe pages more balanced, because right now this page is much longer than I think any other franchise universe page will get on this site. A Mario-centric universe page that covers strictly Mario-universe, with links to Yoshi, Donkey Kong, and Wario sub-universe pages, I think is a good idea, but input is appreciated, of course. Erik the Appreciator 02:54, February 18, 2007 (GMT)


 * I think it's worth mentioning that Yoshi and DK have played a role in the Mario franchise, but strictly speaking within the SSB-verse, Yoshi and DK are of their own worlds (at least if you go by their emblems, which is kind of what inspired "universes" in my mind).
 * Really nice job on the rewrite BTW. I haven't read through it all yet, but it looks good. -- Kirby King 04:09, February 18, 2007 (GMT)


 * Now I made Yoshi (universe)... I thought of something great to use as a picture at the top of these universe articles: cropped images of the universe symbols for the characters, so that the Super Mushroom symbol is shown at the top of this page, the Triforce symbol for the Zelda characters is shown at the top of the Zelda universe page, the Yoshi's Egg symbol at the top of the Yoshi universe page, etc. To mirror the approach of the Smash Bros. games at distinguishing characters by universe, we should put the symbols on these universe pages accordingly. Agree? Erik the Appreciator 00:25, February 19, 2007 (GMT)


 * That's a great idea! 00:45, February 19, 2007 (GMT)


 * Ooo...how about a little alteration to Template:character on top of that to have the little symbol displayed beside the link in the table as well, just as the flag does in Template:smasherbeta. -- Randall00 17:15, February 26, 2007 (GMT)

I could get a picture of the universes symbol like the Mushroom and Triforce. Once I get them then I will let you put them on the pages. The Magnum Master 21:25, March 24, 2007 (GMT)


 * That sounds nice. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be all that hard to do, though, so if you get them and I'm not around, you might want to upload them yourself. Erik the Appreciator 21:39, March 24, 2007 (GMT)

I added the pic. You like? If so, then I could do it for the other universes. The only problem ones I will have are the Fire Emblem one, Yoshi, etc. since they don't appear on the Adventure Mode Screen. -- The Magnum Master 02:05, March 25, 2007 (GMT)


 * It'd do as a temporary measure, though the background is a bit distracting; I envisioned images of the universe symbols on black backgrounds. I think I figured out how you can acquire a clear image of a symbol on a black background however: Set up a rigged 1-stock match between yourself and two opponents, one of them in the fourth player slot being the one whose universe symbol you want to shoot, and go to Past Stages: Kongo Jungle, which has a totally black background on the bottom. Then KO the opponent in the fourth slot from the game so that the life meter disappears and only the universe symbol remains. While leaving the other opponent alone, position yourself so that the symbol overlaps with the black background to the lower right of the stage, take a shot of that, and you have what I think we need for a universe page. Pretty much all the symbols for the universes can be shot and uploaded this way, though not the Smash Bros. Universe symbol, in which case you'll have to try a single-player match taking place on either battlefield or Final Destination, and if you can alter it with Photoshop to make it look like the other images, that'd be great. Erik the Appreciator 17:08, March 25, 2007 (GMT)

Ah, I see now. I fixed it for you. Is that how you wanted it? If so then I have ones ready for the Zelda and Metroid universe. -- The Magnum Master 20:15, March 25, 2007 (GMT)


 * Excellent! That could work for all the universe pages, though getting the images for the Kid Icarus and Metal Gear universes could be trickier. If you feel there's someway these symbol images can be made even better, such as increasing the brightness value of the images with Photoshop, feel free to try it on your own time. Or, what might be better, you might want to consider replacing the black background with a white one so that it blends with the page's background better and the symbol itself is emphasized at the top of each article. Erik the Appreciator 20:33, March 26, 2007 (GMT)

Pictures
The pictures on the right (such as the ones next to "Mario" and "Luigi") are staggered on my browser; the picture for Luigi is pushed to the left and blocks some of the text. I'm going to fiddle around with the pictures to see if I can fix it myself. 17:00, February 25, 2007 (GMT)
 * In my personal POV, those aren't the images we would even be having there in the ideal world. I put them there almost as placeholder images because I think for universe pages we should have smaller images in their place that focus more on each character's face and upper torso, and the bigger full-body pics should keep to the fighter pages. Erik the Appreciator 03:44, February 26, 2007 (GMT)

Universe Clarification
I am going to give you the idea of what the universe is :

The little symbol behind the character's stock is to be the universe. DK is a universe not a sub-universe. For trophies the Universe must be decided by obvious or debate game universe.


 * Hm, technically you're right about how we define universe on SmashWiki: a game franchise the Smash games gives a little symbol to. And probably, as far as Smash itself is concerned, the DK, Yoshi, and Wario universes are simply separate universes from the Mario one. It's just that in lots of other games, those four franchises are always appearing together, like in Mario Kart, Party, Sports, and RPG games, whereas you never see franchises like Zelda and Fire Emblem crossing over in between their own games. That's why we kinda consider DK, Yoshi, and Wario "sub-universes" of Mario in addition to being their own universes (we're not saying those three are not universes, remember). Fortunately it's not a grave issue. :) Erik, Lord of Universes 01:36, November 22, 2007 (EST)

New Name?
Should 'Mario' really be kept as the name here? Since Brawl refers to the series as 'Super Mario Bros.' maybe the franchise name should be changed to that?
 * I think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oceana (talk • contribs) 13:37, 4 May 2013
 * Don't leave a space in front of your comment, because that messes up the formatting. Sign your comments by typing ~ at the end of your posts. This helps other people identify you and know who posted. You should avoid commenting on really old posts, such as this one, unless you have something new to add. And if you want this page to be moved, you should provide more reasoning for your opinion. Awesome   Cardinal   2000  09:43, 4 May 2013 (EDT)

Guys, I'm confused.
I wasn't really paying much attention back when you guys debated whether games should stay as articles or be merged with their universe pages, so what was the verdict? We have pages about Super Mario bros and SMB2 yet there's information about them here on the page. What is the smashwiki policy? Mr. Anon teh awsome Anon  Sir Anon  the great  03:07, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL. I expected someone of your caliber to have read the forum. If it's a master piece, it stays.-- Mega  Tron1  XD  Decepticon.png 06:15, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Worth Noting
Is it worth noting that the Mario series has the most playable characters in Smash in total? 72.105.4.191 12:48, 26 August 2014 (EDT)
 * That title belongs to the Pokémon series. When considering player count, we look at the universe in question, and ignore any sub-universes that fall under it. DK, Yoshi, and Wario's universes are sub-universes of the Mario franchise. Mega  Tron1  XD  Decepticon.png 13:01, 26 August 2014 (EDT)
 * This is also true if you especially count the Pokemon Trainer's three Pokemon as individual fighters, with an overall total of 9 playable characters from the Pokemon universe in Smash Bros. compared to Mario's 7 characters in the series. D  o  t  s  (talk) Link OoT Dots.PNG The DS 13:34, 26 August 2014 (EDT)
 * Sorry, what I meant was in one game, they have the most. 72.105.5.166 15:01, 18 October 2014 (EDT)

Koopalings page
So since it turns out the rumor about Bowser Jr.'s alt costumes are the Koopalings, I was thinking, instead of multiple pages for each, we just make a single big article for them, like they do on the Mario Wiki. After that we can just make re-direct pages of their names Linking too the Koopalings page. would that be alright? Ixbran (talk) 14:53, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
 * That would be fine. Miles ( talk)   15:03, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
 * kk, i'll go ahead and do that now. Ixbran (talk) 15:32, 11 September 2014 (EDT)

Half-Mario property
Is Meta Crystal in SSB a Half-Mario property? Juju1995 (talk) 23:29, 21 November 2015 (EST)

Rpg
It's made by square,and square Dosnt make Mario ,so why is the the Geno costume here? 174.54.124.132 17:47, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
 * Uh...Mario RPG is still a Mario game nonetheless... Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  17:56, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
 * its not Nintendo property 174.54.124.132 18:07, 7 May 2016 (EDT)
 * It was licensed by Nintendo and Square was permitted to make the game. The fact that it's not made by Nintendo doesn't matter here because they were still involved, just not as much. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  18:10, 7 May 2016 (EDT)

Yoshi
Yoshi is from Mario. User: Mario Kart 7 Rules I&#39;m working on it! (talk) 20:28, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
 * Yes, but the Smash Bros. games consider Yoshi to be from its own series (for whatever reason). Regardless of personal opinions, we categorize things into universes based on how the game designates them. Nyargleblargle.png Nyargle blargle'''  (Contribs) 20:32, 22 May 2016 (EDT)

Got it! User: Mario Kart 7 Rules I&#39;m working on it! (talk) 20:33, 22 May 2016 (EDT)

This edit
That edit is just doing italics in a part that wasn't italics properly it had quotation marks instead of the normal way to italicize games. So I fixed it. TabuuandMasterCore 21:46, 28 June 2016 (EDT)
 * Next time just say so in the edit summary please.  Serpent SKSig.png  King  21:48, 28 June 2016 (EDT)

Regarding my reversion
I actually could not fit the entire explanation into the summary. In addition to what I said, the summary was dishonest, as the IP apparently believes that Samus is male and that Zero Suit Samus is not a separate character (even though as of Smash 4 she is). Zelda and Sheik are also separate characters as of Smash 4, invalidating it further.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  18:40, 13 July 2018 (EDT)
 * "Separate" and "alternate" are two different things. Regardless of whether or not they are individual characters that can be chosen, Sheik is a transformation of Zelda and Zero Suit Samus is Samus without the Power Suit. The IP also gave no indication that Samus was male. Daisy is not Peach, and is a separate character from her, as is Rosalina. Few universes have more than one female to begin with, and the Mario universe is the only one where the multiple female characters do not effectively make up one entity (disregarding the Fire Emblem series, as the females are alternate costumes). Aidan,  the College-Bound Rurouni  18:58, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

Donkey Kong vs Mario Bros.
To put it simply, Mario first appeared in Donkey Kong, but that's not the first Mario Bros. game, that would go to the Game & Watch title instead. Cookies Creme  00:09, September 28, 2019 (EDT)

Why not just put them both in the infobox? We did the same for a similar debacle on Little Mac's and Luigi's character pages. Rdrfc (talk) 04:28, September 28, 2019 (EDT)
 * Alright, so going off the talk page I was in the wrong, so I apologize for continuously rushing to conclusions. Cookies CnC Signature.png Creme  08:31, September 28, 2019 (EDT)

Move
I have spotted a tag that suggested we should move the article to Super Mario Bros. (universe). I kinda agree with the move, but I think it should be moved to just Super Mario instead. SonDaniel (talk page) 14:52, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * I disagree; sure, "Super Mario" is used to refer to the platformers the franchise is known for, but in Smash, the universe covers much more than the platformers, including various spinoffs that just use "Mario" rather than "Super Mario". Since this page also covers the spinoffs represented, calling it "Mario" covers the entire scope of the series. Aidan,  the Rurouni  15:44, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * If you’re keeping the tag, you might as well make Mario Kart and the other spin-offs including Mario different universes! And if you do, I suggest you add them to article listing minor universes. SonDaniel SonDanielSignatureHead1.pngSonDanielSignatureHead2.png (talk page) 15:57, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * See, we would, if they weren't clumped together with the main Mario series. Yes, the Mario Kart series is separated from the Mario series in Ultimate, but only for the sound test, and not for anywhere else. Aidan,  the Rurouni  16:00, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * Well, I guess this is the problem with those that have sub-universes that don’t have playable characters (in this case, Wrecking Crew and probably some others). I deeply apologize if you think I exploded over this. I know you have more experience than me in the wiki. But I do not see why you’re keeping the tag. Why don’t we start over, and forgive and forget? SonDaniel SonDanielSignatureHead1.pngSonDanielSignatureHead2.png (talk page) 16:04, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * Just curious, would any of this happen if I didn’t do anything at all? Would it happen if the IP who put up this tag didn’t put it up in the first place? SonDaniel SonDanielSignatureHead1.pngSonDanielSignatureHead2.png (talk page) 16:08, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * (edit conflict)
 * Wrecking Crew is different because that's actually treated as a separate universe. The Mario spinoffs are treated as Mario titles, as they should be. It's the same with Yoshi, Donkey Kong, and Wario.
 * I did not think you exploded. I would call you out if you did. I think this conversation is going quite well, actually.
 * This would still happen; consensus is mandatory for major changes. Aidan,  the Rurouni  16:37, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

Here was my thought process: the trophies, spirits, and music pages all refer to it as the "Super Mario Bros." series. That was why I tagged this and the Sonic the Hedgehog universe pages. This one, I can definitely understand if there is some debate though, mainly due to Mario Kart being counted as a separate series music-wise. While I would like this page to be renamed to be consistent with the subpages, I understand if this is meant to be the general scope instead. 72.203.118.154 16:33, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * Actually, I pulled up both Smash 3DS and Ultimate (getting the other games up is more of a hassle), and across both I found "Mario" (Ultimate's sound test), "Super Mario" (the spirits), and "Super Mario Bros." (the trophies). I reiterate that "Mario" covers the whole scope of the series rather than anything specific, especially considering how much outside of the mainline Mario titles is clumped together with the Mario universe in Smash. Aidan,  the Rurouni  16:38, April 28, 2020 (EDT)
 * Ok that makes sense. So this page should stay as is. Should the music and spirits pages be renamed according to how they are in the games? Or should they just be renamed to "Mario series" to be consistent with this page? 72.203.118.154 16:49, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

I oppose for reasons above. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer (talk) 16:40, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

If Dr. Mario is a playable character in smash bros, then it should be classified as the Mario Series. I currently oppose this move. S3AHAWK (Talk) 16:43, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

With all those reason listed, I believe they make sense. Now, I oppose the move. SonDaniel (talk page) 16:59, April 28, 2020 (EDT)

Trivia regarding missing Mario stages
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 is an alternate stage layout rather than a fully fledged missing stage, but I'd say that totally still counts as some kind of missing stage. It's a full on stage layout of its own kind that exists separate from 1-1 and isn't just an aesthetical thing missing in Ultimate like B&W GB Dream Land. It's even different a case from the slightly different layout version of Gaur Plain on 3DS or the differing stage hazards between the different versions of Smash 4. For all intents and purposes, it's its own stage that just so happens to be hidden behind an input select method (at least IDK if it was also random to appear instead of 1-1 or present as is somewhere in the single-player). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.210.113 (talk • contribs) 11:48, January 29, 2021 (EST)

Consider splitting the "Media with elements appearing in the Super Smash Bros. series" into its own article
Going over the article's TOC, I'm astonished over how many subsections are presented in the "Media with elements appearing in the Super Smash Bros. series" section. I actually feel like this is too much to scroll through, that I think splitting the section into its own page would alleviate this issue. Normally this isn't the procedure for universe pages, but compared to the other universe pages, this one deserves to be its own article. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 00:14, October 23, 2021 (EDT)


 * I have to agree on this one, since they tend to take 1/2 to 2/3 of an universe's page length. Maybe they should be put in a subpage. Prolyfic8 (talk) 04:48, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
 * Support I agree. --Meester Tweester (talk) 21:10, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
 * Are "subpages" the ones where they act like folders? If so, then that may be best due to that category's length as it will just compress it unless one wishes to view it. &#32;Wolff (talk) 21:40, October 23, 2021 (EDT)

Ordering Fighters By Character Selection Screen
Should the fighters be organized by each game's character selection screen like with the stages? Here is how the Mario (universe) page would look with it:

In Super Smash Bros.

 * LuigiIcon(SSB).png (Unlockable)
 * MarioIcon(SSB).png (Starter)

In Super Smash Bros. Melee

 * DrMarioIcon(SSBM).png (Unlockable)
 * MarioIcon(SSBM).png (Starter)
 * LuigiIcon(SSBM).png (Unlockable)
 * BowserIcon(SSBM).png (Starter)
 * PeachIcon(SSBM).png (Starter)

In Super Smash Bros. Brawl

 * MarioIcon(SSBB).png (Starter)
 * LuigiIcon(SSBB).png (Unlockable)
 * PeachIcon(SSBB).png (Starter)
 * BowserIcon(SSBB).png (Starter)

In Super Smash Bros. 4

 * MarioIcon(SSB4-U).png (Starter)
 * LuigiIcon(SSB4-U).png (Starter)
 * PeachIcon(SSB4-U).png (Starter)
 * BowserIcon(SSB4-U).png (Starter)
 * RosalinaIcon(SSB4-U).png (Starter)
 * BowserJrIcon(SSB4-U).png (3DS: Unlockable; Wii U: Starter)
 * DrMarioIcon(SSB4-U).png (Unlockable)

In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

 * 01. MarioIcon(SSBU).png (Starter)
 * 09. LuigiIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 13. PeachIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 13ε. DaisyIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 14. BowserIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 18. DrMarioIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 48. RosalinaIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 58. BowserJrIcon(SSBU).png (Unlockable)
 * 70. PiranhaPlantIcon(SSBU).png (DLC)

Thoughts on this? Diddy Kongstar (talk) 22:59, January 3, 2022 (EST)