Forum:Smash Remix content

I think, similar to Project+ we need to discuss the coverage of the Nintendo 64 mod Smash Remix since it has been featured at a lot of events, for example as side events on 64 tourneys like, or in smaller remix only tournaments series' hosted by and for smash 64 players like 's El Refugio or 's Remixed Netplay Showdown as one of the main events on multi-smash game tournaments like. Not surprisingly though it's much smaller than Project+, with a bit under 50 entrants being the current maximum number probably. Currently it is mostly played by smash 64 players which is kind of similar to how Project M was mainly played by Melee players at first.

As of now, remix doesn't have it's own page, the new characters don't have either, there's no remix icon and the new characters don't have icons either, which is a problem if we want to add the results to tournament pages.

There are multiple ways to handle it:
 * 1) Just ignore remix tournaments completely, maybe write a "There has also been a remix tournament"
 * 2) Add remix result tables to tournaments, leave the used characters blank (like it is currently handled usually).
 * 3) Add icons & maybe also create pages, maybe only for the game at first.

Maybe we should wait until it turns more into it's own thing or gets bigger or partially replaces smash 64 more and stay at 2)? Some might want to go back to 1) I imagine..


 * Support 3: I think the mod has grown enough to have a dedicated page and character icons that link back to the page. I don't think it's large enough to have it's own character pages. While it hasn't taken over Smash 64 in popularity and I doubt it will, it seems more akin to how certain Brawl events held tournaments for mods such as Brawl+ or -. Señor Mexicano   (talk)  08:42, November 11, 2020 (EST)
 * I'm leaning towards 2 for now since Smash Remix is still a relatively new game. If bigger national tournaments or large online tournaments start hosting the game in the near future, I believe that's when we can do more Smash Remix content. However if mods like Brawl+ and Brawl- have their own page I don't see why Smash Remix shouldn't have one as well. Cookies CnC Signature.png Creme  10:55, November 11, 2020 (EST)
 * Support 3: I think it could more popular in the future so the mod could have a page. ThegameandwatchIcon2.png Thegameandwatch  ThegameandwatchIcon3.png  The Nerd  12:16, November 11, 2020 (EST)
 * Support 3: This mod seems to be growing to be one of the most popular in all of Smash history, potentially being able to rival Project M one day in this regard. While we should maybe hold back on making character pages for a bit, not giving this mod a page at least seems criminal. It deserves to be acknowledged in my opinion. Crazy456Rhino (talk) 14:48, April 16, 2021 (EDT)
 * Support 2: Just leave it the way we currently do it for now. The reason we treat Project M and + the way we do is because it completely overshadowed the Brawl competitive scene and became too big to ignore. To my knowledge, while this mod has had tournament relevence and recently had a tour, it is still rather new so we should give it some time to make sure that it continues to grow and is not just a fad. Plus as you said the scene is much smaller than Project+, and even though it has likely grown since then (since that was over a year ago), it likely hasn't made the Smash 64 scene entirely obsolete as PM did to Brawl. While I agree it isn't fair to completely ignore it, and I wouldn't oppose giving it a page, I don't believe it should be treated with equal standards as PM/+ at least until it reaches that level of notability. 725.png  Omega Toad  the Jolly Shiny Litten.  (Seasons greetings!)  06:32, January 11, 2022 (EST)
 * Seeing as other users have brought it up and I haven't said my piece on it, I'll put my big no for adding individual character articles. While I believe the mod itself is more than welcome for having it's own article, we'd be severely jumping the gun if we begin creating character articles, considering it has not made the same impact on the series PM/+ did, nor do I think it ever will. 725.png  Omega Toad  the Jolly Shiny Litten.  (Seasons greetings!)  07:55, February 14, 2022 (EST)
 * Support 3: This mod has seen a lot of usage so I think it should be covered with icons and character pages. --Meester Tweester (talk) 14:03, January 31, 2022 (EST)
 * I don't have strong feelings on having a Smash Remix article, but I will say that I strongly oppose having individual character articles and the like for the mod, like we do with PM. To be honest, I don't really support having character articles for PM either, but at least PM has had a very heavy impact on competitive smash, that I'm not convinced this mod has had. As for results, if a tournament we are covering anyway had a tournament for Remix, I guess it makes sense to include results for it, but I don't think Smash Remix content at an otherwise unnotable tournament should be used as grounds for covering that tournament. Essentially, when deciding whether or not to cover it, ignore SR content when making the decision, but if it is decided to cover the tournament, include coverage of SR on the article. I don't know what number this makes me.  Alex the  Weeb  14:05, January 31, 2022 (EST)
 * Support 3: But mostly echoing Alex, I don't support having articles on Remix characters unless it becomes significantly more prominent than it is now. --Rdrfc (talk) 06:30, February 3, 2022 (EST)
 * Support 3: The mod is huge when it comes to adding content not present in the original game much like Project M and its successor Project+. I strongly support having the Remix Characters have their own character articles like with PM and the characters from the original game can still be linked to their SSB pages since they haven't changed the veterans balance-wise. The mod itself has become too big to ignore. Diddy Kongstar (talk) 01:12, February 11, 2022 (EST)
 * Support 3: Smash Remix is enormous. I do, however, also understand a concern around opening the floodgates for other mods that might take off, like Akaneia or Beyond Melee (although Beyond Melee changes base character movesets while Akaneia doesn't). It might be wise to setup some kind of standard that explains what types of modifications are considered notable enough for inclusion in the wiki. Melee_icon.png davidvkimball 01:39, March 10, 2022 (EST)
 * Support 3: I do believe that Smash Remix has a growing community that is making the mod big enough in tournaments. Plus I want this proposal to pass already so I better add another support. Grand Dad.png NPM    Morr!?  NaughtyPigBoi.jpg 01:17, June 14, 2022 (EDT)

Comments
Just gonna give this a bump. For reference, these are the big tournaments that have already occurred for the mod:
 * - 63 entrants
 * - 25 entrants
 * - 43 entrants
 * - 43 entrants
 * - 45 entrants (Did not use new characters, but did use Smash Remix for stages)
 * JaimeHR's series - ~20 entrants
 * Shalaka's series - ~16 entrants

Upcoming events include:

At this point, there's really no reason to oppose creation of an article, so the topic in mind is how much do we cover. I still believe we should go with 3, but have character icons link back to the mod page. Should the mod grow larger, which I think is pretty likely, then we can figure out whether to create individual character pages. As it currently stands, tournament results for the mod look incredibly bare and I really think we should at least include character icons. Señor Mexicano  (talk)  22:21, March 21, 2021 (EDT)
 * Bump, you can add Keystoned IV.5 (offline) to the list of upcoming events. Señor Mexicano   (talk)  14:20, April 16, 2021 (EDT)

Smash Remix Tour with lots of events with a shared ruleset & a ranking increases its notability imo https://www.smashremix.net/ Patzui (talk) 12:32, February 8, 2022 (EST)

So now that some time has passed, I think it's safe to close this proposal on the verdict that option 3 won. In other words, the mod receives its own page (which has already happened) and results receive character icons. I would like to start another proposal following this to tackle character pages, Remix-exclusive events, article icons, news template usage, etc. Señor Mexicano   (talk)  07:45, May 25, 2022 (EDT)