Talk:List of spirits (Metroid series)

Revision Reversion
Just as a heads-up, Autismo555, if your edit is reverted, you should discuss before reverting the reversion, not the other way around. Otherwise, that's edit warring. I admit that I may have been guilty of this in the past, but ever since a particular incident on another wiki, I've been trying to be far more cognizant about this.

Anyways, let's break this down piece by piece:


 * "Sorry Peabody, but I'll have to revert a few things and wait until Aaronitmar covers these battles."

I'm not sure I understand why Aaronitmar is important or relevant here. While his videos are certainly popular, he is not the authoritative all-knowing master of video games, and I'm sure he probably pulls a lot of information from wikis like SmashWiki to fill gaps in his knowledge. I've seen what happens when people (not just fans, but also creators of official media who can't remember every detail) parrot wikis without fact-checking. That's why it's all the more important for our articles to be as accurate as possible without going into extra speculation.


 * "Also, I have a tendency of comparing Final Smashes to a Legend Class Spirit's attack. Y'know, if the shoe fits and all that."

Many (if not most, if not all) spirit battles can use Final Smashes. Therefore, unless the spirit battle directly draws attention to it (such as Super Star from Mario), it's not really that special or noteworthy. That's why it's better to limit moveset comparisons to favored moves, more powerful moves, etc. because those are the ones that are clearly meant to directly reference the spirit itself; anything outside of that is more speculative.


 * "*The music track represents the musical theme of Sector 1, an area in Metroid Fusion, the game which features the Gravity Suit."

There's a reason why I had changed this. Metroid Fusion is not "the" game which features the Gravity Suit. It's only "a" game which features the Gravity Suit. It's neither the first (Super Metroid) nor the most relevant. It's not even the game depicted by the spirit's artwork! Why is Sector 1 (a music theme that isn't associated with the Gravity Suit or lava) used instead of Magmoor Caverns or another more relevant music track? I honestly don't know. But it's not like it's anywhere close to being the theme of the Gravity Suit.

As a general blanket statement, remember what I've told you before about the spirit battle inspiration column: be concise. This isn't the full-fledged Origins section of an article that can have as much detail as needed; this is a narrow column just meant to quickly cover how the spirit battle is relevant to its spirit. Therefore, "The music track originates from Metroid Fusion" is preferable to "The music track represents the musical theme of Sector 1, an area in Metroid Fusion" because the latter has unneeded bloat that isn't relevant to the Gravity Suit. I won't be going over every change/reversion, but keep this in mind for many of the others that I do not mention here.


 * "*The music track features a remix of "Silence", the musical theme that plays in rooms containing the Chozo Statues in their debut game, Metroid."

This is also true for almost all other 2D Metroid games featuring Chozo Statues, the only exceptions being Metroid II (but not its remake) and Dread. That's why it's not necessary to specify "in their debut game, Metroid." It's true, yes, but again remember that this isn't an origins section; it's a short column.


 * "*The music track represents the boss battle theme of the, an earlier stage of Metroid's life cycle."

There's no need to say "represents" instead of "is". This track isn't representing the boss battle music; it is the boss battle music. Again, be concise.


 * "*The Giant King K. Rool represents Kraid, a giant, reptilian antagonist who features a golden belly and a blue color scheme"

Kraid is green, not blue. That's why I removed this before. The only reason why K. Rool is blue is because almost all base game spirit battles use alternate costumes; this trend wouldn't be consistently broken until DLC spirits. Otherwise, his default costume would be a much closer match to Kraid.


 * "*The music track represents the musical theme of the X Parasite's debut game, Metroid Fusion."

Aside from the prologue, the Sector 1 theme isn't really "the musical theme" of Metroid Fusion. It's just one of various tracks used for the various sectors of the game's setting. Wording it like this gives a false impression of the Sector 1 theme's importance to Metroid Fusion as a whole, similar to saying that Metroid Fusion is "the" game featuring the Gravity Suit.


 * "*The green Samus features a yellow color scheme, representing Kanden, an intergalactic bounty hunter with a yellow color scheme. "

Green Samus isn't really yellow; she's predominantly green. Her new black alt with yellow lines is a much closer match to Kanden's color scheme. So why is Green Samus used instead? Like Sector 1 with the Gravity Suit, I don't know. But at this point, it's such a loose connection that the color scheme shouldn't be cited.

--PeabodySam (talk) 21:01, September 26, 2022 (EDT)
 * I'm sorry, I thought I was being concise with the Spirit Battle inspiration and I tried to keep the facts relevant. The short edits of certain facts (e.g. "The music track originates from Metroid Fusion") hardly delves deeply and briefly into their representation of the spirit battles, which in my opinion, makes them irrelevant unless a fighter or a stage represents the music track's game of origin.


 * As for the edits themselves, I'll try to break this down as much as I can to the best of my cognitive abilities and reasoning.


 * Gravity Suit
 * "*The music track represents the musical theme of Sector 1, an area in Metroid Fusion, the game which features the Gravity Suit."
 * When I used this factoid and add the game in it, I use it to detail the fact that certain areas in its game of origin doesn't feature a certain represented spirit, but rather the game itself features the represented spirit. As such, the Gravity Suit does appear in Metroid Fusion but it is not obtainable in Sector 1.
 * Also, would you ought that I combine this with the stage's layout to represent the lava-filled cavern in Sector 1? I took a quick peek at the Sector 1 portion of Fusion and it does have a cavernous lava-filled area. If the facts are accurately represented, then perhaps I would, but if not, then I leave it alone.


 * Chozo Statue
 * "*The brown Samus references her appearance as the main playable character of Metroid, who obtains power-up items from the Chozo Statue."
 * "*The music track features a remix of "Silence", the musical theme that plays in rooms containing the Chozo Statues in their debut game, Metroid."
 * Okay, the first one I made up because that part was a fact, but pointing out a spirit's debut game is necessary because, as you said, not all 2D Metroid games feature a hidden Chozo Statue room and Metroid is the Chozo Statue's debut game.
 * And keep in mind that I am quite aware it's not the Origins column, but rather the inspiration column because there are facts fits with the spirit's appearance and role, including the spirit's game of origin.


 * Kraid
 * Quick change to green color scheme. It's no problem.


 * Queen Metroid
 * "*The music track represents the boss battle theme of the Zeta Metroid, an earlier stage of Metroid's life cycle."
 * I know the music track is the boss battle against the Zeta Metroid, but it's not exactly the boss battle music for the Queen Metroid.
 * Also, I'll have to make a few quick changes to "*The music track represents the boss battle theme of the Zeta Metroid, an earlier stage of the Queen Metroid's life cycle appearing in Return of Samus/Samus Returns with your consent.


 * X Parasites
 * "*The music track represents the musical theme of the X Parasite's debut game, Metroid Fusion."
 * If you would, does Sector 1 feature the X Parasites as enemies? If they do, they are enemies of this particular sector in their debut game.


 * Kanden
 * I am quite aware of Kanden featuring a yellow color scheme and Samus's suit does feature a yellow color scheme, but when you look at Kanden at first glance, you'll see a bit of green due to the lighting. At least, that is how I currently perceive the bounty hunter.Autismo555 (talk) 14:27, October 2, 2022 (EDT)


 * You're right that simply saying "The music track originates from Metroid Fusion" on its own might not be sufficient context. But in cases where I cut out extra details, such as specifying that a music track is from a particular area or describing a location in great detail, it's because those extra details aren't necessary or relevant. For example, in the case of "The stage and music track represent Brinstar, an area on the planet Zebes in the Metroid series which features Geemers as enemies.", the stuff I cut out wasn't necessary. All you need to know is that Brinstar features Geemers, which is why its stage and music are used for the Geemer's spirit battle.


 * Gravity Suit: I think you missed my point. I'm not disputing that the Gravity Suit is in Metroid Fusion; I'm disputing wording the phrase as Metroid Fusion being "the game which features the Gravity Suit" instead of "a game featuring the Gravity Suit". Saying it's "the game" erroneously implies that it's the only game with the Gravity Suit, or that the Gravity Suit is most heavily featured in it. Saying it's "a game" merely states that the Gravity Suit does appear in this game.


 * As for Sector 1 having lava... okay, yeah, that's a fair point. Still, I find it a rather esoteric reference considering that Sector 1 isn't known for having lava (that'd be Sector 3 instead) while Norfair and Magmoor Caverns are much more heavily associated with lava and the Gravity Suit, raising the question of why their respective music tracks aren't used instead. But that's not a question for you; it's for whoever designed this spirit battle!


 * Chozo Statue: You don't need to always point out the spirit's debut game if the inspiration extends past that game (such as "Silence" being associated with Chozo Statues), especially since the spirit's debut game already stated in the article. See the "Origin Game" column in the previous tables.


 * Kraid: If K. Rool's puppet fighter is blue and Kraid is green and therefore their colors do not match, then why does it warrant mention in the inspiration column? I wouldn't even bother mentioning it.


 * Side note: Parasite Queen isn't blue either, which is why I also removed that. She only looks that way in Ultimate thanks to the stage lighting; in Metroid Prime and Brawl, she appears more greenish with red highlights.


 * Queen Metroid: Again, you missed my point. For the sake of brevity, there's no reason to use a long word like "represents" if "is" is the more precise word. It's also as redundant as saying "My eye represents my eye!" (I wonder who'll get that reference?) If you simply point out that it's the boss theme for another stage of the Metroid life cycle in the same game, readers should be smart enough to realize why that's relevant to the Queen Metroid without explicitly spelling it out for them. That's how I had worded it in my edit: "The music track is the boss battle theme of the, an earlier stage of Metroid's life cycle." Clear and concise.


 * X Parasites: While X Parasites are found in Sector 1, they're also found throughout the game, so they're not tied specifically to Sector 1 (this is also why I had changed the Zebesians from saying Brinstar is "an area in Super Metroid which features the Zebesian as an enemy" to "one of the areas where Zebesians are fought in Super Metroid"). The song also plays over the prologue with the asteroid field, so it could be potentially combined with the stage inspiration. However, in either case, the Sector 1 theme was almost certainly chosen due to it being the only track from Metroid Fusion, the (see what I did there?) game featuring the X Parasites. That's why I had dropped specifying the track's connection to the area or prologue in favor of simply originating from the game itself: "The music track originates from Metroid Fusion, which features the X Parasite as the enemy."


 * Kanden: See Kraid above. There's a weird disconnect between Green Samus representing Kanden and Kanden actually being yellow, so I'd rather just not mention the color scheme at all. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:50, October 2, 2022 (EDT)
 * The color scheme of the blue King K. Rool is as close to Kraid's color scheme as it can get. As for Kanden and Parasite Queen, the lighting is likely why they chose a blue Ridley and a green Samus respectively. If they did indeed overlook the blue lighting for the Parasite Queen's green-and-red color scheme as you pointed out, then they would've used the green Ridley. As for Kanden, that color scheme and the greenish lighting in some parts is all they can give us.


 * Gravity Suit: I'm glad you acknowledged Sector 1 features lava at least, since it does require the Gravity Suit to access. On that note, do you think we should add in the reference of the lava-filled area of Sector 1 for the Gravity Suit's music track? Or no?


 * Chozo Statue: I'll change the ending of the music track inspiration to "in the Metroid series'' then.


 * Queen Metroid: The only reason I represented the Zeta Metroid music track is because they didn't exactly title who the boss belongs to. Maybe it would be better to change the representation to a reference? Or maybe I should reference the music track's game of origin? After all, both bosses do appear in Metroid II and its remake.


 * X Parasites: I wish I was informed about the music track's connection with the stage earlier. That would've taken a weight off my mind earlier.Autismo555 (talk) 21:36, October 2, 2022 (EDT)


 * Kraid/Parasite Queen/Kanden: Again, if it's not an exact match, I still don't think it's worth mentioning. With each character having a more relevant costume (K. Rool's default, Ridley's green, Samus's black) that got overlooked by developers for one reason (not using defaults in base game spirit battles) or another (not paying close enough attention to actual colors), it's something that could and should have been represented better if they were keeping to the inspiration.


 * Chozo Statue: As opposed to which series? Kid Icarus? Joking aside, if you're talking about a Metroid music track for a Metroid subject on a Metroid article, readers should be smart enough to infer that you're talking about the Metroid series. It doesn't have to be said.


 * Queen Metroid: "The music track is the boss battle theme of the, an earlier stage of the Metroid's life cycle that is also featured in Return of Samus and Samus Returns." Does that satisfy you?




 * At the end of the day, I just feel the need to remind you that there have been multiple repeated discussions on SmashWiki about the inspiration column, with numerous members in favor of cutting it altogether because it tends to be bloated, speculative, obvious, etc. This is not commentary on your edits specifically, but rather the general contributions made by various editors that gave the inspiration column its negative reputation. By staying clear (only listing direct references without going into speculation or stretching) and concise (keeping it as brief as possible), we can avoid potential deletion and keep the inspiration column, since it is an aspect of these spirit lists that you and I both appreciate. That's why I'm fighting to keep it this way. --PeabodySam (talk) 18:33, October 4, 2022 (EDT)


 * I don’t blame you for reverting the edits. User:Aidanzpunk woke up and chose violence and therefore drove me away from my place to edit the spirit battles. I was about to change a few things here and there privately when Aidan ruined it all with a message that felt threatening… starting with Kaptain K. Rool'e spirit battle no less. Aidan drove me away and I’ll be stuck reading through spirit battle pages where their inspiration was written by a 2nd grader.73.89.241.117 22:57, February 5, 2023 (EST)
 * Excuse me? You get lengthy complaints about how you handled the spirit pages, especially in regards to blatant violation of our policies, but somehow I'm the bad guy for doing my job as an admin and telling you to cut it out? Grow up, you only got away with your shenanigans because no one had the time to fix every little thing that you did. Aidan   the Lovely Gamer  01:11, February 6, 2023 (EST)
 * If you want to handle this better, then I challenge you to wipe the entire slate clean and start all over without me! Since you keep telling me about how my edits aren’t short enough or concise, then maybe you should’ve done the same about your complaints on my discussion pages in a more civilized manner that didn’t feel agitated and we could have handled this better professionally on another site without being so blunt!
 * And you tell me to grow up? I didn’t start any flame wars, vandalize this wiki’s pages, or post inappropriate content, yet I’m being vilified for my contributions! Fine! You try spending hours on being concise and accurate with the spirit battle inspirations or finding a way to compress them on desktop or mobile so the didn’t appear pressed on the side! Forget all of you! I’m done with you ingrates! Period!73.89.241.117 04:27, February 6, 2023 (EST)
 * You haven't read a single comment left for you, have you? The problem with your edits wasn't that they weren't "short enough or concise", you continually added unnecessary words to sections which made it unbearably hard to read, which arguably isn't all that better from how you were editing before, where you changed cohesive sentences into abrupt points that removed information. Additionally, I feel like I have every right to be blunt, especially when practically every comment left for you (on your talk page, on my talk page, on this talk page) went ignored—if the message isn't clear, then it's my job as an admin to say something to the effect of "you've gotten enough complaints about your behavior, now cut it out or there will be consequences."
 * Your understanding of a problematic user is also incorrect. Yes, the standard problematic user starts a flame war, or vandalizes the wiki's pages, or posts inappropriate content, but we also have the occasional case of a user who doesn't necessarily break any rules, but does enough "wrong" collectively that the administrative team decides that the user in question is enough of a problem on the wiki—we do not need a specific offense to occur in order to block someone, we just need to decide that such person is doing more harm than good by being allowed to edit the wiki. Ironically, however, I can't even say that this applies to you, because, as I've pointed out multiple times already, you continually violated one of our most prominent policies (along with another one that I'm genuinely surprised hasn't been brought up yet).
 * Also, for someone who claims to be done with the wiki, you sure have a lot to say. Aidan   the Lovely Gamer  10:15, February 6, 2023 (EST)
 * Well, SORRY if my edits are problematic and SORRY if I wanted things a but more consistent, and SORRY if I forgot the tildes at the end of my last message! If you want to do better, then fine! I'll take my edits somewhere else where you and everyone else won't feel burdened by them! You can take those edits, wipe the slate clean of me, and YOU can fill in the inspirations that didn't feel like it was written up by a 5 year old! And don't end your message with telling me I have a lot to say for being done with the wiki because you're just begging me to come back and bark! Autismo555 (talk) 10:34, February 6, 2023 (EST)

(Reset indent) You know full well that you have as much power to end this conversation as I do. If you feel that obligated to respond to my comments, then maybe you should reevaluate your priorities. Aidan  the Lovely Gamer  11:15, February 6, 2023 (EST)