Talk:Spirit/Archive 1

Fighter Spirits?
Sakurai mentioned, and brought up a item in the shop called a "Fighter Spirit". In this case it was daisy, using her artwork for a mario party game. Can someone translate what he was saying at that moment and get a better idea of what fighter spirits are? Mindinaprogram (talk) 03:00, 4 November 2018 (EST)mindinaprogram

Document
There is a document that contains some of the current spirits https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IWYbSlTZ9lxXjjZFXetT3Y4irOTMl3KPCpToExcZBf0 --99.203.31.68 11:13, 11 November 2018 (EST)

Pages for Spirit Characters
Some people have been adding new pages for characters that appear only as Spirits (like Lapras), and apparently some that weren't confirmed yet. If the Spirits are confirmed to be in Ultimate, they should only be added to character pages that already exist (Such as Kat & Ana and Ashley), or if they appear in some other way in the game outside of Spirits Mode and World of Light (Like Cappy). Any others should probably wait until after Ultimate comes out so it can be better discuss when we have the info to based it upon. &#32;Wolff (talk) 18:54, 16 November 2018 (EST)

Files names
I'd rather like having SPI-#CharacterName.png than generic #CharacterName.png files. I think I'm not the only one. We should also consider categories. - Hugman [ User page | Contributions ] 14:48, 21 November 2018 (EST)

Support Spirits
According to my observation:
 * Support Spirits no types, battle is enemy's type, because unlocking character also have.
 * Spirits's ability has many icons, may indicate abilities are divided into different types.
 * Support Spirits have "cost", represents the number of Support Slots it need.--Tyughvbnsi (talk) 04:41, 24 November 2018 (EST)

Unlocking Spirits through save data
Nintendo just revealed that anyone who has save data for "Let's Go Pikachu" or "Let's Go Eevee" on their Switch will unlock Partner Pikachu or Partner Eevee as Spirits for Ultimate. Is there a section one can add about this information? 97.88.58.90 13:08, 2 December 2018 (EST)
 * If the pages aren't protected, you can add it yourself. If you're asking where to go for it, I'm not sure, but I dare say the Pokémon Spirits page would be a good start. Black Vulpine  of the Furry Nation.  Furries make the internets go! :3  17:41, 2 December 2018 (EST)
 * I'm gonna assume it gets put under "Conditions", so if it's not true, then just...y'know, put it elsewhere or whatever, yo. Hope we're all cool. 97.88.58.90 22:12, 2 December 2018 (EST)

Spirit page proposal
Hello. Before I start adding the template (I already have all the information to finish all the spirit pages) I'd like to summit the proposal found right now in the Sandbox as an idea on how to show and organize this pages. I think that the spirit battle information is different from the information of the spirit itself so it could be moved. Anyways, not sure where to post this discussion or if imporvements should be made to my idea. GamblerMario (talk) 18:14, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * Please redirect any comments to the ongoing discussion in the Sandbox page. Thanks. GamblerMario (talk) 18:23, 17 December 2018 (EST)

Kirby Spirits?
Okay, HOW did Galeem create Kirby clones for Spirits to use if Kirby escaped from his attacks? 97.88.58.90 22:47, 17 December 2018 (EST)


 * We know that Galeem can create different puppet fighters from a single character (i.e. Zero Suit Samus from Samus), and it's heavily implied (if not outright stated) that Meta Knight is the same species as Kirby. Maybe these aren't actually Kirby puppet fighters, but instead unmasked "zero suit" Meta Knight puppet fighters that are therefore indistinguishable from Kirby puppet fighters? I dunno, I'm just spitballing. The developers probably didn't think too hard about this, and it's likely just gameplay/story segregation at work. --PeabodySam (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * Not the place for this. DryKirby64 (talk) 23:27, 17 December 2018 (EST)
 * Then where are we allowed to talk about this? 97.88.58.90 11:17, 18 December 2018 (EST)

Spirits all information
Was thinking on updating all the spirit pages since I took the time to reap the info, but I got bored and want to avoid wiki wars. Since I can't create an User space page, here it is for use as any see fit:

Just missing Base Att and Base Def for: Young Zelda, Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Dharkon and Galeem GamblerMario (talk) 15:08, 18 December 2018 (EST)

Added the missing base stats to the table. DevNode (talk) 12:18, 30 December 2018 (EST)

Stats for Moblin & Bokoblin were switched. Corrected. DevNode (talk) 11:35, 15 January 2019 (EST)



Adding Poké Ball Pokémon to conditions?
Should we add the type of Pokémon the comes out of the Poké Ball when the "Only certain Pokémon will emerge from Poké Balls" condition is added? I noticed that people are doing it for the assist trophies. Neonyoshi150 (talk) 21:50, 21 December 2018 (EST)Neonyoshi150
 * Probably should. Aidan,  the Festive Rurouni  22:04, 21 December 2018 (EST)

Observation on Spirit stats
I was running some numbers on how Level 99 spirit stats relate to their base-level counterparts, and for every spirit I've been able to analyze, their stats at max level are 2.5 times their original value. The only exception I could find to this is the Absolutely Safe Capsule since starts with a huge Defense and an individual spirit stats seem to max out at 10,000. The stats also grow in the same proportion, so if you know the ratio of defense to attack, and know one stat at a given level, you should be able to find the other one. Maybe there's a formula for finding the power of a spirit at a given level. Quickhand413 (talk) 11:07, 22 December 2018 (EST)

Music tracks for Spirit fights
I feel like we should also list what music plays in the different Spirit battles. True, it doesn't have any effect on the battle, but a lot of the time they're music tracks that can't normally play on the stages they're featured on, like the Elite Beat Agents fight playing "Escape from the City" in Saffron City. (Bee Kirby (talk) 16:12, 29 December 2018 (EST))

Rank Outliers for Support Skills
I've already made note on the article of Lip's Spirit being the only three-star to grant the Lip's Stick Equipped skill (which is otherwise found on one-star Spirits). Is this an isolated instance, or has anyone else made observations of a similar nature? DevNode (talk) 12:36, 30 December 2018 (EST)

Why is there no Column for Power Rating?
I'm just wondering why that was such a glaring admission. Have it show up like this: Power Rating: (Lv. 1 ~ Lv. 99) Anyways here's some data that I collected. --Arima (talk) 17:17, 1 January 2019 (EST)
 * Bomberman: (2688 at Lv.1)
 * Metal Gear REX: (2739 at Lv. 1)
 * Gordo: (1912 at Lv. 1)
 * Metal Sonic: (1859 at Lv. 1)
 * Octoling (1843 at Lv.1)
 * Blanka (1727 at Lv. 1)
 * Pico: (1516 at Lv. 1)
 * Fish: (1954 at Lv.1)
 * Elec Man: (1749 at Lv.1)
 * Tron Bonne: (1656 at Lv. 1)
 * Tharja: (1510 at Lv.1)
 * Trace: (1057 at Lv. 1)
 * Porygon: (1000 at Lv. 1)
 * Mach Rider: (889 at Lv. 1)
 * Affinity: (906 at Lv. 1)
 * Moblin: (859 at Lv. 1)
 * Primid: (810 at Lv. 1)
 * Dan Hibiki: (400 at Lv.1)
 * Xerneas: (8878 at Lv. 99)
 * Charlotte Aulin: (7015 at Lv. 99)
 * Don Bongo: (7379 at Lv. 99)
 * Dragonite: (7192 at Lv. 99)
 * Cobalion, Terrakion, & Virizion: (2659 at Lv. 1)
 * Heracles: (1661 at Lv. 1)
 * Geo Stelar & Omega-Xis: (1350 at Lv. 1)
 * Warrior Mech Gauss: (5004 at Lv. 99)
 * Chaotix: (4027 at Lv. 99)
 * Nick: (4065 at Lv. 99)
 * Captain Rainbow: (2988 at Lv. 1)
 * Blaziken: (1784 at Lv. 1)

Suggestion for Skill Tables
I've been toying with the idea of adding columns to the skill tables denoting which Spirits are in possession of a given skill or trait, with Primary Spirit names bolded or italicized to separate them from Support Spirits. This would provide some additional pertinent information not collated elsewhere on the wiki and also remove the need for footnotes on skills otherwise only noteworthy for only appearing on Primary Spirits (since similar treatment isn't presently given for skills found on only one Support Spirit).

I've also recently delegated edits to the Bane traits to rollover texts in their description entries, primarily to maintain consistency with their in-game descriptions (since the original edits were inserted as part of their trait descriptions). I wasn't entirely happy with this decision - they weren't asides or special cases on the effect properties, and the information wasn't substantial enough to warrant two nearly identical footnotes on the same table but still enough to not deserve outright deletion. I was thinking the extra column would resolve this issue cleanly without too much extra bloat, since individual skills and traits only have a handful of unique Spirits associated with them at most.

I'll trial it on my userspace in a bit and get back to here with a link. DevNode (talk) 07:38, 15 January 2019 (EST)

Here it is. Let me know what you think, and if this should or shouldn't go live on the article proper. DevNode (talk) 11:40, 15 January 2019 (EST)


 * I have some relevant math data that you might need to add in.--Arima (talk) 06:28, 23 January 2019 (EST)


 * Do tell. DevNode (talk) 18:31, 24 January 2019 (EST)

Spirits and Power Boosting
Every skill or trait has a specific ranking, cost, and power boost. Generally speaking,

NOVICE
 * Cost: 1, Power: +4%
 * Cost: 2, Power: +9%

ADVANCED
 * Cost: 1, Power: +6%
 * Cost: 2, Power: +11%

ACE
 * Cost: 1, Power: +8%
 * Cost: 2, Power: +13%
 * Cost: 3, Power: +18%

LEGEND
 * Cost: 1, Power: +10%
 * Cost: 2, Power: +15%
 * Cost: 3, Power: +20%

There are a handful of oddities.

Seemingly skills for NOVICE spirits, but they're only available on ADVANCED spirits.
 * Item Gravitation (Cost: 1, Power: +4%)
 * Death's Scythe Equipped (Cost: 1, Power: +4%)
 * Mr. Saturn Equipped (Cost: 1, Power: +4%)

Appears on NOVICE spirits with the sole exception of Lip, an ACE spirit, but it only gives her a 4% boost.
 * Lip's Stick Equipped (Cost: 1, Power: +4%)

Exclusive to the LEGEND spirit Madama Butterfly. Unlike other cost 3 LEGEND skills, it gives a 30% boost instead of a 20% boost.
 * Poison Heals (Cost: 3, Power +30%)

When a skill is present on a Primary Spirit, like one that has been enhanced, it functions as if a Support Spirit with that skill has already been equipped. For example, Unlike Support Spirits, Primary Spirits seem to be exempt from skill ranking being tied to their own ranking. It's not unusual for a NOVICE skill to be on an ACE Primary Spirit, but it is unusual for a Support Spirit since it only ever happens once with Lip.
 * Soma Cruz (Lv. 99)
 * Attack: 6275
 * Defense: 4734
 * Skill: Giant Killer (LEGEND, Cost: 1, Power: +10%)
 * Power: 12,110 = 1.1(6275+4734)

Assuming that the skills exclusive to Primary Spirits aren't oddities, we can determine their information based upon the boosts they give.
 * Lifesteal (LEGEND, Cost: 2, Power: +15%)
 * Hammer Duration ↑ (ACE, Cost: 1, Power: +8%)
 * Metal and Giant (LEGEND, Cost: 3, Power: +20%)

Though this summarizes how skills work, I have yet to look through traits on Primary Spirits.

SpiceMaster (talk) 01:34, 27 January 2019 (EST)

"Easy to launch" condition and hitstun
So I've noticed that in spirit battles with the "easy to launch" condition, hitstun appears to be lower for the affected fighters. Potentially this is due to the hitstun only being calculated for the unboosted knockback, or it could be something else, either way this is something we may want to look in to.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  14:38, March 22, 2019 (EDT)

Spirit caps
You think there's a limit to how many Primary and/or Support Spirits players can acquire until they can't obtain them no more? Juju1995 (talk) 02:41, July 21, 2019 (EDT)

Speaking of which, I think I've discovered a limit to how many Primary and Support Spirits players can acquire. Juju1995 (talk) 04:23, September 23, 2019 (EDT) https://twitter.com/JujuPnF1995/status/1176048833190666240/photo/1

Finding a Verdict for the Sorting of DLC Spirit Skills
Thus far the DLC Fighter Packs have followed a trend of giving the four-star spirit they introduce a unique support skill not found in the base game. At one of these items can feasibly be arranged with other skills in their respective categories (Poison Power Up with the rest of the poison hazard skills) while another could be sorted with one outside its Miscellaneous category (Item Autograb with Item Gravitation), but due to their postlaunch nature, the game's "Sort by Skills" function places all spirits with DLC-exclusive skills at the bottom of the sort order, after the Special category. Since a recent edit has organized Poison Power Up in the manner aforementioned (to make no mention of the Weight ^^ case), I'm wondering if we could come to a verdict on whether or not we should do the same for the rest of the DLC skills, present and future. I would also like for us to figure out in this case how Team Power Up would be categorized as well - perhaps at the end of the Miscellaneous section if no one can make a better association case. Otherwise, we might want to move Poison Power Up back to the bottom of its list, if we are to uphold the pattern of adhering to in-game sorting conventions.

A marker to indicate which skills are post-launch content might also be nice. DevNode (talk) 21:15, September 23, 2019 (EDT)

Spirit skill effect percentages
Based on this video (7:09-7:35), the damages without Shine Sprite ("Special-Move Power ↑") were 28.4, 82.1, 79.0, while the damages with Shine Sprite were 29.8, 86.2, 82.9, which corresponds to a 5% increase (rounded down). Where should this value be listed? --Raijinili (talk) 17:39, December 4, 2019 (EST)


 * I think it would be useful to add more columns for each skill (and each trait).
 * Most skills/traits affect only one stat, though some increase multiple, so I think one more column is needed for what stat is affected.
 * Equipping multiple skills of the same name will increase the effects, however the increase is not always linear from my testing. If it was linear, or followed some equation, I would go with one column for the base amount and a second column for the increase per skill. Since the increases aren't consistent I suggest 4 columns to account for the maximum amount that can be normally equipped (5 is possible with "Critical Health Attack ↑" using 5-Volt (Angry), all 3 slots filled, and the Adventure Mode skill but it didn't seem to do anything more than having 4).
 * Below I made a mock-up of what a single row could look like using an extreme example with data I've collected.
 * {| class="wikitable sortable" style="width:60%"
 * {| class="wikitable sortable" style="width:60%"
 * {| class="wikitable sortable" style="width:60%"

! Skill !! Description !! Rank !! Cost !! Power !! Stat !! 1 used !! 2 !! 3 !!  4
 * rowspan="4"| Trade-Off Ability ↑
 * rowspan="4"| Start battles with 30% damage and slightly increased attack, defense, and move speed.
 * rowspan="4"| 3
 * rowspan="4"| 1
 * rowspan="4"| 1.08x
 * Damage || 1.18x || 1.29x || 1.36x ||
 * Defense || 1.2x || 1.4x || 1.6x ||
 * Walk, Dash, and Air speed || 1.2x || 1.4x || 1.6x ||
 * Starting damage || 30% || 60% || 90% ||
 * }
 * CanvasK (talk) 22:29, January 1, 2020 (EST)
 * Starting damage || 30% || 60% || 90% ||
 * }
 * CanvasK (talk) 22:29, January 1, 2020 (EST)
 * CanvasK (talk) 22:29, January 1, 2020 (EST)


 * I made a full table for the "Other" skills on my userpage. It is based more on the table in Equipment, doing away with the rowspans and eliminating the 'Stat' column (also makes space for 'Notes') by having all the effects in one cell. I'm not sure if I like it better or not. On one hand it keeps all the effects with the skill when sorting, the downside is that sorting doesn't work very well because numbers and text are together. In the table code the old one lets each stat be in their own row, whereas the new one effectively puts the stats into columns with a lot of  s.
 * I can make tables for all the skills/traits depending on which style others think would be best: old one that is posted above this message, the new one on my userpage, or something else if anyone has any suggestions. CanvasK (talk) 12:02, January 25, 2020 (EST)
 * Nice work. It's strange that Special Move Power Up is the only +5%, and that the second stack gives a bigger bonus that the first. --Raijinili (talk) 14:50, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I thought it was strange too and I initially thought I was using a bad move, but I made sure to use single-hitbox moves. When I tested PSI Attack I also got 1.05×, though that was because I used Lucas's PK Fire which has the bolt hitbox and the fire hitbox, and only one of them was PSI.
 * There is one hidden mechanic that I'm not sure where to put or how to word it. Essentially when a damage multiplier gets too large the game will try to reduce it. This only applies to attack multipliers and only the same types.
 * Here's an example: Morgana (atk 4490 = 2.796) 'Sword Attack' (1.1×) with 'Weapon Attack' (1.1×) and 'Weapon Attack & Move Speed ↑' (1.1×), all abilities affecting swords. 1.1*1.1*1.1 = 1.331 * 2.796 = 3.721476. Ike down tilt does 8. 8 * 3.721476 = 29.77... Trying this in game gives 29.42 =/= 29.77.
 * I've done a lot of testing and have determined what is happening:
 * If a type's multiplier is <1.3, leave it alone
 * If the type's multiplier >1.3 and <1.5, multiplier*0.5 + 0.65
 * If the type's multiplier is >1.5, multiplier *0.2 + 1.2
 * Using the above with the original example, 1.331 > 1.3, 1.331*.5 + 0.65 = 1.3155 * 2.796 = 3.678138 * 8 = 29.425104 ≈ 29.42
 * Here is a graph I've made based on my testing, and yes there is a sudden jump at the 1.5× mark. This is not a thing most will run into because the main ways to trigger it are the above scenario, Trade-Off Attacks/Ability, and Poison Power Up (I've already adjusted them on the table to their true values). Another note is that a lot of the non-specific type abilities are grouped into their own type, which I personally call 'generic'. Trade-Offs, Critical-Healths, Poison Power Up, Special Attack (all of them), Dash, etc., and some Styles also use 'generic'. Metal Killer, Giant Killer, and Critical Hit (1 & 2) seem to ignore it all together.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by CanvasK (talk • contribs) 16:18, January 28, 2020

Categorization questions
--Raijinili (talk) 22:12, January 29, 2020 (EST)
 * Are body attacks included in physical bonuses?
 * Do Magic bonuses boost attacks with magic (effect) or magic (type)? Pages like flame and water (type) say that Spirit skills act on the effect and not the type.
 * Same question for Energy.
 * If Fire bonuses boost Fire and Explosion effect attacks (and Darkness effect), what are Explosion effects that get boosted?
 * Is "throwing" Throwing or Throw or Grab?
 * Do the traits (not skills) for Fire and Water also apply to Explosion/Darkness and Ice?
 * From my old testing I believe: Punch and Elbow are Fist. Kick and Knee are Foot. Physical encompasses Fist and Foot and includes Body, Head, Bite, Tail, and Hip(aka Butt). In reference to (what I call) the 'limiter' above Physical does not contribute to the Fist or Foot type multiplier, but still affects them if that makes sense.
 * I did a quick test with Daisy's dash attack which, according to Ruben's script viewer, is effect=magic type=punch and it was not boosted by Magic Up, so I think it only affects magic type.
 * Another quick test with Ivsaur up smash, again based on the script viewer, is effect=normal type=bomb and was not boosted by Fire & Explosion Up, possibly only the effect.
 * I'll try do more thorough testing soon (possibly tomorrow) for the remaining points, as well as try to catalog all the unique effects and types I can find in the script viewer. CanvasK (talk) 22:51, January 29, 2020 (EST)


 * While I was looking into this I've found something out about the 'limiter': it is only active with sword boosting abilities and 'generic' boosting abilities. For fist, foot, electric, etc. the numbers behaved normally, as if there was no 'limiter' (like they are supposed to).
 * Here's some of my type and effect findings so far:
 * The 'bomb' type is not affected by Fire/Explosion, just that most explosions also have fire, the explosive page has that right.
 * Darkness is unaffected by Fire Weakness, but affected by Fire/Explosion Up and Fire Attack Up.
 * Ice is unaffected by Water Attack Up and Water Weakness, but is affected by Water/Ice Up.
 * Water effect was affected by all of the water abilities, but water type was not affected by any of them.
 * Water type not affected by any Water abilities. Water effect is though
 * Throwing Power Up seems to only affect regular grabs (those caused by the grab button, not command grabs) and their collateral hitboxes. Attacks listed in the script viewer as type=throw or have an 'absolute' hitbox (like most throws and final smashes) but are not regular grabs were not affected.
 * Speaking of the viewer, here are all the types I found that are used. 'PALUTENA' is any direct attack that Pit/Dark Pit use that involves their bow; not sure if it can be classed as 'weapon' because it is always accompanied by the 'cutup' effect (which I think is 'weapon'). 'OBJECT' is any weapon that doesn't fit into the other types.
 * {| class="wikitable collapsable"


 * NONE || PUNCH || ELBOW || KICK || KNEE || BODY || BITE || HEAD
 * TAIL || HIP || OBJECT || SWORD || HAMMER || WHIP || PALUTENA || BAT
 * PARASOL || PIKMIN || MAGIC || PSI || WATER || ENERGY || BOMB || THROW
 * }
 * And the effects. Some weird ones are 'noamal' (only find on the non-bury hit of the hammers of G&W down-smash) and the last two which are in hex. The first one in hex is only on Byleth's uncharged arrow. The second is Ken's focus attack, which I thought would use 'saving' like Ryu since the rest of the script is nearly the same as Ryu's. Going over the rest would take a lot of space, so click here for some quick details I've already written (not 100% accurate but should be enough to get the gist).
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * }
 * And the effects. Some weird ones are 'noamal' (only find on the non-bury hit of the hammers of G&W down-smash) and the last two which are in hex. The first one in hex is only on Byleth's uncharged arrow. The second is Ken's focus attack, which I thought would use 'saving' like Ryu since the rest of the script is nearly the same as Ryu's. Going over the rest would take a lot of space, so click here for some quick details I've already written (not 100% accurate but should be enough to get the gist).
 * {| class="wikitable"


 * none || normal || sting || cutup || rush || fire || elec || water || purple || ice
 * aura || magic || paralyze || pierce || sleep || sleep_ex || bury || bury_r || turn || search
 * blaster_throw_down || blaster_throw_up || deathball || ink_hit || flower || jack_bullet || curse_poison || jack_final || dedede_hammer || marth_shield_breaker
 * coin || mario_local_coin || stop || bind_extra || palutena_bullet || whip || stab || saving || lay || slip
 * taiyo_hit || noamal || 0x1d7a481588 || 0x192a2f9ba6 || || || || ||  ||
 * }
 * --CanvasK (talk) 21:46, February 2, 2020 (EST)
 * coin || mario_local_coin || stop || bind_extra || palutena_bullet || whip || stab || saving || lay || slip
 * taiyo_hit || noamal || 0x1d7a481588 || 0x192a2f9ba6 || || || || ||  ||
 * }
 * --CanvasK (talk) 21:46, February 2, 2020 (EST)
 * --CanvasK (talk) 21:46, February 2, 2020 (EST)

Style mechanics
A post from 2019 January (v 1.2.1-2.0.0) has the following values for styles.


 * Demon Style
 * +20% offense
 * -20% defense


 * Brick Wall Style
 * +40% defense
 * -57% offense


 * Land Style
 * +20% ground power, +20% move speed
 * -70% air power, -13.3% jump


 * Air Style
 * +20% air power, +13.3% jump
 * -70% ground power, -20% move speed


 * Boulder Style
 * +10% defense, +20% move speed
 * -30% offense, -13.3% jump

These results should be confirmed for the new version, expanded upon, and put in the Spirit section. --Raijinili (talk) 19:03, December 4, 2019 (EST)
 * I'm not sure if the values have changed since v 2.0.0, but I have more recently tested the values for every style (I've also done the same for every ability along with other mechanics, though that isn't relevant here). Some of my values are different from the original post due to different methods. Air Speed and Assist Attack are not listed in any Dojos for some reason. (Pardon any poor wording or formatting. This is my first post)


 * For transparency my testing methods were: Move Speed I used a character, such as Inceneroar with a dash speed of 1.18, I add the style and compare against other characters until he matches or is between two characters; Air Speed I did the same except made a custom stage with a long wind box going upwards at full speed; Jump I made a custom stage with a lot of platforms and counted how high a character jumped; Weight I went to Mushroom Kingdom and used the middle platforms and compared characters; Grab Range I looked up Young Link's grab hitbox on Ruben's script viewer and eye-balled it; Fall Speed I had a character fall from the top platform of Norfair to the blast-zone and counted the frames.


 * And some clarification on the types of power: Offense, overall damage; Ground Power, damage on grounded moves; Air Power, damage of moves started in the air; Special-Move Power, damage of specials; Attack Power, damage of tilts, smashes, aerials, etc.; Throw Power, damage of throws; Grab Power, damage of pummels; Item Attack, damage of items; Assist Attack, damage of Assist Trophies.


 * (I personally like to have the values listed as, for example, '1.1' since it is less ambiguous to me on how it works. I've provided percents to be consistent.)
 * Demon Style
 * Offense 1.2 (+20%)
 * Defense 0.8 (-20%)
 * Land Style
 * Ground Power 1.2 (+20%), Move Speed 1.2 (+20%)
 * Air Power 0.3 (-70%), Jump 0.8 (-20%), Air Speed 0.85 (-15%)
 * Air Style
 * Air Power 1.2 (+20%), Jump 1.2 (+20%), Air Speed  1.3 (+30%)
 * Ground Power 0.3 (-70%), Move Speed  0.8 (-20%)
 * Brick-Wall Style
 * Defense 1.3 (+30%)
 * Offense 0.5 (-50%)
 * Boulder Style
 * Defense 1.1 (+10%), Move Speed 1.2 (+20%), Air Speed 1.1 (+10%)
 * Offense 0.7 (-30%), Jump 0.8 (-20%)
 * Big-Bee Style
 * Defense 1.15 (+15%), Jump 1.2 (+20%), Weight 1.2 (+20%), Air Speed 1.1 (+10%)
 * Offense 0.6 (-40%), Move Speed 0.7 (-30%)
 * Runner Style
 * Move Speed 1.5 (+50%), Air Speed 1.2 (+20%)
 * Jump 0.6 (-40%)
 * Gravity Style
 * Jump 1.5 (+50%)
 * Move Speed 0.5 (-50%), Air Speed 0.9 (-10%), Fall Speed 0.8 (-20%)
 * Tank Style
 * Offense 1.1 (+10%), Defense 1.2 (+20%)
 * Move Speed 0.8 (-20%), Air Speed 0.9 (-10%), Jump 0.8 (-20%)
 * Lightweight Style
 * Move Speed 1.4 (+40%), Air Speed 1.3 (+30%), Jump 1.4 (+40%)
 * Offense 0.6 (-40%), Defense 0.8 (-20%)5, Weight 0.8 (-20%)
 * Strategist Style
 * Special-Move Power 1.2 (+20%)
 * Attack Power 0.7 (-30%), Throw Power 0.7 (-30%), Item Attack 0.7 (-30%)
 * Equipment Style
 * Item Attack 1.2 (+20%), Assist Attack 1.1 (+10%), Healing Amount 1.2 (+20%)
 * Attack Power 0.6 (-40%), Special-Move Power 0.6 (-40%), Throw Power 0.6 (-40%)
 * Overthrow Style
 * Throw Power 1.5 (+50%), Grab Power 1.5 (+50%), Grab Range 1.25 (+25%)
 * Attack Power 0.6 (-40%), Special-Move Power 0.6 (-40%), Item Attack 0.6 (-40%)
 * Ninja Style
 * Throw Power 1.3 (+30%), Grab Power 1.3 (+30%), Item Attack 1.2 (+20%), Move Speed 1.6 (+60%), Fall Speed 1.3 (+30%)
 * Attack Power 0.5 (-50%), Special-Move Power 0.5 (-50%), Defense 0.8 (-20%), Weight 0.65 (-35%)
 * CanvasK (talk) 17:36, December 15, 2019 (EST)
 * I've worked out how styles affect Team Power. Each will multiply the attack value and defense value and then add them together to get the Team Power (some of them will add an extra amount), same as it would without a style. What the values are multiplied by are dependent on the style. Calculating the Team Power seems to be (INT(attack*SameSeriesMult*StyleAtkMult) + INT(defense*SameSeriesMult*StyleDefMult))*AbilityPowerMult + StyleAdd.
 * Demon Style
 * Attack 1.2 (+20%)
 * Defense 0.8 (-20%)
 * Land Style
 * Attack 1.2 (+20%)
 * Defense 0.8 (-20%)
 * Air Style
 * +100
 * Brick-Wall Style
 * Attack 0.8 (-20%)
 * Defense 1.2 (+20%)
 * Boulder Style
 * +100
 * Big-Bee Style
 * +100
 * Runner Style
 * +100
 * Gravity Style
 * Attack 1.4 (+40%)
 * Defense 0.6 (-40%)
 * Tank Style
 * Attack 0.6 (-40%)
 * Defense 1.4 (+40%)
 * Lightweight Style
 * +100
 * Strategist Style
 * +100
 * Equipment Style
 * Attack 1.1 (+10%)
 * +100
 * Overthrow Style
 * Attack 1.1 (+10%)
 * +100
 * Ninja Style
 * +100
 * CanvasK (talk) 10:43, December 16, 2019 (EST)
 * The data on some of these don't seem to be completely accurate. I compiled a list of stat changes from Dojo styles a while back. https://www.ssbwiki.com/User:Trainer_Alex/Dojo_technical_data  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:25, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Additionally, it's worth noting that the most accurate way to compare movement speed statistics is using wind zones in stage builder. Each unit on the power setting is equal to 0.02 (all movement stats use a universal unit of speed).  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:28, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I went through your list and made note of the differences. Where you have 'Damage received' I have as Defense, do 1/defense to get damage received or 1/damage received to get defense. Runner I'm not sure why my jump height is different, I'll retest later. And for the jump height of Lightweight and Ninja I accounted for the weight difference (or at least tried). When I tested Weight Down I got a higher jump, so I applied that knowledge to the two styles. If I knew a test for jump height that ignored weight I would use it.
 * I'll keep the movement speed thing in mind next time I need to test it, but I think my results are accurate enough to not need retesting at the moment (may make fall speed testing less painful). I don't like using custom stages for testing because of how long it takes to get back into it, which is why I did character comparisons in Training. CanvasK (talk) 16:50, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Weight and jump height are completely independent stats. The weight decreasing spirit ability increases a fighter's jump height manually.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:53, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * If that is the case then I'll retest those and some abilities without wrongly accounting for weight, and make corrections in my notes and on the main page tables. I thought I read somewhere that weight had an impact on jump height, I very easily could have misread something because when I wanted to test jump height I was grasping at anything that I could use. Outside of the jump height discrepancies, gravity, and secondary jump height (the latter two I don't have data on) I believe the rest of our data lines up. CanvasK (talk) 17:21, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Very well. Although the grab range data you have probably isn't accurate either, as the game most likely uses a radius multiplier on all grabboxes in order to make the change universal, but this won't affect the overall range of every grab equally due to stretch and position offsets.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  17:24, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I won't disagree about the accuracy, and I agree that it probably is a radius multiplier. I used Young Link because he only has a single circle hitbox on his hookshot once it starts travelling. A quick retest on a sandbag does have me questioning my result, appearing closer to 1.5 than 1.25. Testing against Kirby with Young Link makes me think anywhere between 1.5-2.0. Overall I can't say for certain, I'll have to find a more reliable way to test it. CanvasK (talk) 17:57, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Lightweight Style
 * +100
 * Strategist Style
 * +100
 * Equipment Style
 * Attack 1.1 (+10%)
 * +100
 * Overthrow Style
 * Attack 1.1 (+10%)
 * +100
 * Ninja Style
 * +100
 * CanvasK (talk) 10:43, December 16, 2019 (EST)
 * The data on some of these don't seem to be completely accurate. I compiled a list of stat changes from Dojo styles a while back. https://www.ssbwiki.com/User:Trainer_Alex/Dojo_technical_data  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:25, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Additionally, it's worth noting that the most accurate way to compare movement speed statistics is using wind zones in stage builder. Each unit on the power setting is equal to 0.02 (all movement stats use a universal unit of speed).  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:28, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I went through your list and made note of the differences. Where you have 'Damage received' I have as Defense, do 1/defense to get damage received or 1/damage received to get defense. Runner I'm not sure why my jump height is different, I'll retest later. And for the jump height of Lightweight and Ninja I accounted for the weight difference (or at least tried). When I tested Weight Down I got a higher jump, so I applied that knowledge to the two styles. If I knew a test for jump height that ignored weight I would use it.
 * I'll keep the movement speed thing in mind next time I need to test it, but I think my results are accurate enough to not need retesting at the moment (may make fall speed testing less painful). I don't like using custom stages for testing because of how long it takes to get back into it, which is why I did character comparisons in Training. CanvasK (talk) 16:50, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Weight and jump height are completely independent stats. The weight decreasing spirit ability increases a fighter's jump height manually.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:53, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * If that is the case then I'll retest those and some abilities without wrongly accounting for weight, and make corrections in my notes and on the main page tables. I thought I read somewhere that weight had an impact on jump height, I very easily could have misread something because when I wanted to test jump height I was grasping at anything that I could use. Outside of the jump height discrepancies, gravity, and secondary jump height (the latter two I don't have data on) I believe the rest of our data lines up. CanvasK (talk) 17:21, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Very well. Although the grab range data you have probably isn't accurate either, as the game most likely uses a radius multiplier on all grabboxes in order to make the change universal, but this won't affect the overall range of every grab equally due to stretch and position offsets.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  17:24, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I won't disagree about the accuracy, and I agree that it probably is a radius multiplier. I used Young Link because he only has a single circle hitbox on his hookshot once it starts travelling. A quick retest on a sandbag does have me questioning my result, appearing closer to 1.5 than 1.25. Testing against Kirby with Young Link makes me think anywhere between 1.5-2.0. Overall I can't say for certain, I'll have to find a more reliable way to test it. CanvasK (talk) 17:57, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I'll keep the movement speed thing in mind next time I need to test it, but I think my results are accurate enough to not need retesting at the moment (may make fall speed testing less painful). I don't like using custom stages for testing because of how long it takes to get back into it, which is why I did character comparisons in Training. CanvasK (talk) 16:50, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Weight and jump height are completely independent stats. The weight decreasing spirit ability increases a fighter's jump height manually.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  16:53, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * If that is the case then I'll retest those and some abilities without wrongly accounting for weight, and make corrections in my notes and on the main page tables. I thought I read somewhere that weight had an impact on jump height, I very easily could have misread something because when I wanted to test jump height I was grasping at anything that I could use. Outside of the jump height discrepancies, gravity, and secondary jump height (the latter two I don't have data on) I believe the rest of our data lines up. CanvasK (talk) 17:21, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * Very well. Although the grab range data you have probably isn't accurate either, as the game most likely uses a radius multiplier on all grabboxes in order to make the change universal, but this won't affect the overall range of every grab equally due to stretch and position offsets.  Alex the  Jigglypuff trainer  17:24, January 28, 2020 (EST)
 * I won't disagree about the accuracy, and I agree that it probably is a radius multiplier. I used Young Link because he only has a single circle hitbox on his hookshot once it starts travelling. A quick retest on a sandbag does have me questioning my result, appearing closer to 1.5 than 1.25. Testing against Kirby with Young Link makes me think anywhere between 1.5-2.0. Overall I can't say for certain, I'll have to find a more reliable way to test it. CanvasK (talk) 17:57, January 28, 2020 (EST)

Recently Meshima posted a spreadsheet (link) with a lot of spirit code. I looked through the style sheet and collected and condensed all of the values that I could below. There are some values I didn't know what they related to, so I left them out for now ( jump_aerial_speed_y, jump_aerial_motion_mul, fly_speed_y_mul, air_brake_y, item_state_frame, item_equipment_frame ). If anyone can figure out what those missing values mean then feel free to add them to the table and make a note of your edit.--CanvasK (talk) 14:57, February 26, 2020 (EST)


 * Equipment style affects transformation duration and how long equipped items (such as back shield) last. Perhaps these are what item_state_frame and item_equipment_frame mean. If I had to guess, I'd say jump_aerial_speed_y is midair jump force (which appears to be different from ground jump force) and jump_aerial_motion_mul is initial forward/backward midair jump speed, as when you perform a midair jump while holding forward or backward, rather than losing all of your speed, it sets your speed to a value specific to each fighter (which is usually a little lower than their air speed).  Alex  the  Weeb  15:24, February 26, 2020 (EST)
 * Oh, that makes a lot of sense. The params sheet does list jump_aerial_y as 'air jump height'. I think I'll list both item_state_frame and item_equipment_frame as "Transformation Time", jump_aerial_speed_y and jump_aerial_motion_mul as "Midair Jump Speed" since they have the same values. I think fly_speed_y_mul has something to do with being launched, since most things with 'fly' in the param name have something to do with knockback. air_brake_y has something to do with friction based on the name. The params says it is 'V accel', but doesn't gravity serve as vertical accel?--CanvasK (talk) 15:49, February 26, 2020 (EST)
 * I'd recommend listing transformation and equipment separately since the spirit ability doesn't seem to affect equipment. Same goes for the midair jump height and speed, they're not the same thing. As for the last 2, the only thing I can think of (and these are very long shots) is that the vertical friction thing refers to how quickly a fighter's rate of fall slows down to their falling speed if they're currently falling faster (due to things like cancelling a fastfall with an airdodge, or the set fall speed of 1.8 during vertical knockback). As for fly speed y mul, I couldn't find that in the spreadsheet you linked, so I have nothing to work with.  Alex the  Weeb  15:56, February 26, 2020 (EST)
 * That's fair for both, got a little overzealous with condensing them. The fastfall to regular fall speed sounds the most logical right now. And fly_speed_y_mul is column BA, next to air_accel_x_mul, in the 'stale_personal_2' sheet. I made a copy of it on my drive to view it. Most of the values are close to the jump speed ones, but there are a few outliers. Here is an image if you don't want to make a copy. --CanvasK (talk) 16:09, February 26, 2020 (EST)
 * Given that it's lumped in with a bunch of jump varients, I doubt it's to do with knockback, which is usually damage_fly_speed rather than just fly_speed anyway. It might refer to multi-jumps but I can't think of anything else.  Alex the  Weeb  16:18, February 26, 2020 (EST)
 * I went ahead and added the 'probably solved' values to the table. Ignoring the two unknowns, do you think the table is good to be placed on the main page?--CanvasK (talk) 16:28, February 26, 2020 (EST)
 * I'd say so yes.  Alex the  Weeb  16:31, February 26, 2020 (EST)

Secondary Stat Effects
Along with increasing damage output and resistance, the stats a primary spirit have also affect other things. Here are my findings so far. The stats used factor in the series boost. Max/min is with a stat of 10000 (since even with the series boost it is capped at 10000) and no skills or traits.

Attack stat
 * Smash Attack Charge speed = 60f/attack multiplier or 60f/(1+(attack*4/10000))
 * Min 12f

Defense stat
 * Shield break duration = 400 - 200*(defense/10000) or 400 - (defense/50)
 * Min (without inputs) 200f
 * Shield depletion rate = 0.15/(1+(defense/10000))
 * Min 0.075/f, shield stays up for 666f instead of 333f
 * Shield recharge rate = 0.08*(1+(defense/10000))
 * Max 0.16/f

Anyone know of any other things that are affected by stats? I've already tested ledge grab duration and intangibility with defense, and I can't think of anything that attack would affect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CanvasK (talk • contribs) 17:47, February 1, 2020
 * Only other thing I can think of is shieldstun, which would be difficult, but not impossible, to test.  Alex the  Weeb  18:04, February 1, 2020 (EST)
 * On inspection, it appears unaffected.  Alex the  Weeb  18:15, February 1, 2020 (EST)
 * On another note, the shield break stun duration is definitely less than half at higher percents. Did you only test it at 0 percent?  Alex the  Weeb  16:54, February 6, 2020 (EST)
 * I did only test at 0. I wasn't aware that the stun time is shorter with more damage. Is there a known formula for it? I'm not seeing it on the wiki.--CanvasK (talk) 17:07, February 6, 2020 (EST)
 * I don't know the formula, but it's probably out there. At around 150%+ a fighter with 10,000 defense exits stun almost immediately, and if stun duration were decreased by a factor rather than a constant amount, this wouldn't happen, since base shield break stun at this percent still lasts for around 3 seconds.  Alex the  Weeb  17:13, February 6, 2020 (EST)
 * Darn. I think I know a way to estimate what the formula could be, but testing it isn't going to be fun. I'll try to test it today and post my results later today or sometime tomorrow. Current knowns: at 0% 400f -> 200f; at 100% roughly 300f -> 100f (this was a quick test, take it with a grain of salt).--CanvasK (talk) 17:34, February 6, 2020 (EST)
 * That was actually a lot faster than I expected. Results: at 0 400f; 50 350f; 100 300f; 200 200f; 300 100f; 400 0f. So for every percent of damage, subtract 1 frame. With 10000 defense at 0 it was 200f; at 100 100f; and 200 0f. With 10000 defense a flat 200f is removed. The Allen spirit has 2954 defense which translates to 59f removed with the old formula (defense/50). At 300 it should be 400-300-59=41f and my test reflected this. So the full formula is:
 * I made the old formula with the intent of only cutting the base time in half, not knowing at the time a nicer way to write it. Didn't think it would inadvertently be the proper formula. --CanvasK (talk) 18:41, February 6, 2020 (EST)

Asterisks?
Some of the tables on this page have several things marked with an asterisk, but nowhere on the page does it say what those mean at all, unless I'm missing something here. Can that be clarified? 76.218.109.55 04:13, March 4, 2020 (EST)
 * The asterisks are for rollover text. Though it doesn't seem to work well on mobile. I'll try to work something out soon.--CanvasK (talk) 07:15, March 4, 2020 (EST)

Weight Up 2 and Traits
I'm going to say this here before it becomes an edit war. Weight ↑ ↑ has both a 'trait' (only on primaries) and a 'skill' (supports and enhanced) version. They are referred to has different things in the code. The trait is personal_weight_up_large and the skill is weight_up_large, they are different. If we are going to merge traits and skills based on their name, then lets merge Fist Attack ↑, Foot Attack ↑, Magic Attack ↑, Jump ↑, etc. The two are different, they should be separate.--CanvasK (talk) 20:06, March 16, 2020 (EDT)


 * From what I understand, "Fist Attack ↑" as a skill stacks differently with supports than "Fist Attack ↑" as a trait. On the other hand, I imagine that there won't be a Weight (U)(U) support trait, so it's wrong, but not effectively wrong, to merge the Weight skill and trait (though it'd add more confusion for other skill+trait combinations).
 * I vote to keep them separate, but make sure the difference between skills and traits is clearly stated in the article (if it isn't already). --Raijinili (talk) 03:00, March 17, 2020 (EDT)

I have no idea where you got the idea that enhanceable spirit abilities are not traits, because the game refers to them as traits as well. Regardless, your comparisons are flawed, because, for example, the jump trait for enhanceables is different from the jump trait for non-enhanceables, while the 2 weight double ups are identical.  Alex the  Weeb  05:00, March 17, 2020 (EDT)
 * You failed to notice that the power values are different (5% and 8%). They will remain split. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Orchestral 07:28, March 17, 2020 (EDT)
 * It is mentioned at the top of the Spirit Effects sub-section that supports and enhances use Skills and primaries use Traits. But if you want proof. Mario jab 1 deals 2.2%, Chun-Li (enhanced) has 2.6736 attack and Physical ↑, giving 6.47%. An additional Physical ↑ gives 6.94%, an increase of ×1.0726 -- the same difference between 1.1 and 1.18, the values for a 1x and 2x. Giga Mac has 3.3224 attack and Fist ↑, giving 8.04%. Another Fist ↑ gives 8.84%, an increase of ×1.099 -- the same as if either were alone. Therefore, at the very least for Physical ↑, that gold-bordered 'Traits' act the same as Skills, going from 1x to 2x instead of straight multiplication.
 * On top of the testable difference, again there are the code names. Every Trait on the spreadsheet is personal_ whereas Skills aren't.--CanvasK (talk) 08:24, March 17, 2020 (EDT)
 * It's long been known by some that enhanceable spirit abilities are more akin to a support's abilities than a non-enhanceable primary's abilities. One source (July) says:
 * "Traits are only found on Primary Spirits"
 * "Skills are found on Support Spirits and Primary Spirits that have been enhanced"
 * "Traits do not count as another level towards Skills, they will instead multiply together."
 * --Raijinili (talk) 15:57, March 19, 2020 (EDT)
 * This discussion is already closed. Regardless, what some thread on Smashboards says is irrelevant, the game refers to both unenhanceable and enhanceable primary spirits' abilities as traits.  Alex the  Weeb  16:00, March 19, 2020 (EDT)
 * What some testers say on another forum is not irrelevant. --Raijinili (talk) 16:13, March 19, 2020 (EDT)
 * Yes, it is. They can give them whatever name they want, but that doesn't change the fact that enhanceable spirit abilities are still referred to by the game as traits.  Alex the  Weeb  16:16, March 19, 2020 (EDT)
 * Hi, it is me, the tester from Smashboards. Anyways, I did some digging to see if the game referred to enhanced Primary's abilities as traits or not within the tips and other places... it did not. Didn't say traits or skills outside of the sorting section. Though I did find this. In the top-left of the description for traits, it clarifies if it is a trait or a skill. You learn something new everyday.--CanvasK (talk) 18:05, March 19, 2020 (EDT)