Talk:Sonic (SSBB)

Down Taunt
First things first: WOW. You people auctually think that picture is of Sonic break dancing? He looks like he is flying through the air, hence why his "hair" is going up. I am getting rid of that taunt. Also, we don't DEFINATELY know which taunt is assigned to each direction. The running in place thing could be down or something. --Oxico 16:23, January 4, 2008 (EST)

The directions of the taunts are confirmed to be those directions through E for All. I doubt the direction that corresponds to each taunt will change in the final version. But even if they do change, right now, most information on this page, and a lot of other pages, are based on things that was observed through the two demos. So you might as well get rid of 90% of the page with this claim. Also, about the image: I don't see how that looks like he's flying through the air. It looks awfully like the taunt as it looks in the E for All demo. I'm going to repost the directions, but since the debate about the break dancing image shown on the DOJO will probably not cease until the game comes out, I'll omit that part. --Perfect Chaos 23:30, January 17, 2008 (MST)

I probably shouldn't even mention this, since it was apparently quite a while ago, but it's obviously breakdancing that's going on, seeing as Brawl isn't the first game where Sonic breakdances. -SalaComMander

ITS A TAUNT ALL ITS SUPPOSED TO DO IS BE ANNOYING!! Killerface45 (talk) 14:55, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Avaliability
Seeing as Sakurai stated that he felt it would be more appropriate for guest (3rd Party) characters to be unlockable, shouldn't we make this change in this article? The Snake article already states he is unlockable. RandomGuy42 08:28, October 21, 2007 (EDT)
 * I think we should only have returning Melee starter characters as Brawl starters, and have everyone else remain unknown. Remember, Sakurai originally said you could only use a smashball once per match,and it ended out being much diffrently. He's changed his mind on many things, so until we get our hands on Brawl (or rather, see the Japanese version[s]), we should just have everyone who isn't a returning Melee verteran starter as a unknown. ;) Johnknight1 19:01, November 11, 2007 (EST)
 * To be fair, Sakurai never specifically said a Smash Ball can only be used once per match. He said a Final Smash is a move that can be used "but once", which you only can use once. It's once per Smash Ball. Darkurai 19:05, November 11, 2007 (EST)

The stuff
Since trogga feels that all that stuff is specualtion (it isn't, maybe just the aviability) should we delete all the attacks section from sonic, I know they are real, but no other character article have them, but I have nothing againts it.--Fandangox 22:36, December 12, 2007 (EST)
 * How do you know they are real? Seriously, the attack and Subspace Emissary sections need to go, as Sonic may not even appear in the Subspace Emissary in the final game. --Trogga 23:02, December 12, 2007 (EST)
 * There's something we like to call eyes, you can use them to see clip of sonic in the SE.--Fandangox 15:22, December 13, 2007 (EST)
 * On top of clips, Gimpyfish62, who was at E for All and actually got in to play the game as a VIP four hours before the masses did, was able to do an in-depth description of most characters, including Sonic, and he's listed the moveset that we now have. Heck, if anything, we ought to put his other movesets that he's listed on their respective characters' pages. Teamrocketspy621 15:48, December 13, 2007 (EST)
 * Still, we should wait for an official source.--Trogga 04:44, December 15, 2007 (EST)
 * No, as long as we have someone who actually bothered explaining the controls from the event, we do not need to wait. Trogga, not everything that's not official needs to be removed as long as they're sourced. Magiciandude 09:46, January 21, 2008 (EST)

Disappointed...
After reading the Sonic article... If what is said there is true, I am disappointed they didn't take some of his "Sonic Battle"moves. Why a DSmash similar to Sheik and not his Flare? Un1234l 20:17, February 2, 2008 (EST)

Talk rooms are used for helping the article, not have an open discussion. Move it to SWF or the Pool Room.--Oxico 07:22, February 3, 2008 (EST)

Alt door in story mode?
mabe theres a secrate door that lets sonic come eralyer after you beat the story mode


 * Beating SSE is how you unlock him, so it would make no sense to be able to unlock him after that. Webrunner 17:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism Alert
A person, for some reason, has vandalized the "Victory Poses" for Sonic. I had it fixed, but please keep a watch out for other vandalisms within the page.

Strategies section
personally i dont think there needs to be a strategies section here. that sort of stuff should be left for other smash forums such as smashboards and brawlcentral. Its extremely subjective. i had to clean up the current stratagies, it was filled with spelling, grammatical and blatant game mechanics errors

So true. Plus no offense to whoever wrote it but it sounds as if it was made by a sonic hater. I think the sonic article should be cleaned up. Some parts contradict themselves.Fwooshlewooshle 19:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I was the one who posted the strategy section (no offence taken). I thought that a lot of people would come to this site to find information on new developments on the game. The section was suppose to be a small guide to using sonic well. I myself use sonic all the time and i just put the stuff down. it is not suppose to discourage people from using sonic, its supposed to keep them from making mistakes (like me). I would put this on smashboards, but it won't let me create an account.--Zamrok 17:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Theres a strategies wiki somewhere on the web.(I dont have a link sorry) Perhaps it would fit better there. I dont think strategies belong on this wiki. Fwooshlewooshle 16:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, if I find the it, I will move it there. Until then, it may be good if it stays. --Zamrok 15:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Glitches
I've looked around and can find no place on this wiki that states about Sonic's Side Special on Hanenbow. I'd make a page myself, but I hardly know anything about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.231.119 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

What about his side special is a glitch? And sign your name with ~ ~Crystal_Lucario 11:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I have never done the side special glitch, but I've seen it. I believe that on some stages, when using the side special as a recovery, Sonic may run up the side of the stage. I don't recommend trying this.--Zamrok 15:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism, opinions, and false information
Next person to mess around with this article gets banned. Now go off and play nice. FyreNWater - (Talk • Contributions ) 18:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

theres some more false stuff put up recently in his 'cons' section Firstly, spring jump has enormous horizontal range, easily in the top 5 for that. when you attack at the peak, he can travel about 3/4 FD's length, about the same as dedede. he doesnt lack a reliable way to deal with projectiles, SHAD'ing and using side-b in the air work very well with his very high speed, he cant be camped. how does down smash have limited knockback? its of average strength, only the 2nd,3rd and 4th hits have low knockback, but almost every characters downsmash gets weaker on the progressive hits.

i would fix it but this has been locked >_>

Sonic's Dair
At the beginning of Sonic's (SSBB) profile, it says that none of his moves are from Sonic Battle. I'm pretty sure that his Dair was Shadow's aerial attack in Sonic Battle. Is this move from Virtua Fighter? Can someone confirm this? SonicROBTrainer (talk) 01:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, just to put this out there, Sonic`s Smash B is similar to one of his ground specials in Sonic Battle. His Down B more closely resembles his normal, more common, Spin Dash move. SonicROBTrainer (talk) 03:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually like 2 or 3 moves are based off of sonic battle but his dair is not one of them.Just tested out as well. - Hatake91 (talk) 22:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

If anything his Dair is based of Shadows jump attack in Sonic Battle.--Lilman93 (talk) 18:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

His Dair is a combination of his and Shadow's aerial attacks in Sonic Battle, the "Sonic Rocket" and the "Shadow Rocket". -SalaComMander

Combos
I think there should be a combos section to the main sonic article. Such as:

Dtilt,Utilt- A basic combo Doesnt work if your enemy is too close or at too high a damage.

Spindash,Spindash jump,Uair,jump,Uair,Spring,Uair- A combo that kills at low percents if you can pull it off. Be careful because it also puts sonic into a position where he is easily killed.

Those are only two but theyre still combos. And its just an example.Fwooshlewooshle (talk) 04:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. After all, Sakurai himself posted a Sonic combo on the Dojo. --GDawg816 (talk) 17:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Spin dash + Bring it to mid air + Midair attack + Homing attack back to the stage. PokeLuver (talk) 02:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

At around 30 % -A basic combo+Dtilt+Usmash+Spin Dash+Bring to Mid Air+Uair+jump+Uair+Spring+Dair+Fsmash a really killer combo skilled sonic players can pull off causing an amazing amout of damage. Dont forget to damage the oppent first.--Lilman93 (talk) 18:09, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

New Format!
I changed it to the new format. This is my third time doing this. I don't hink this one's as good as my other two (mario and luigi) so feel free to edit it, just don't put it back to the old style.Smorekingxg456 (talk) 01:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure its done now. It should be completely in the new format.Smorekingxg456 (talk) 20:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Too Much Trivia
Does anyone else think Sonic has too much trivia? I don't have a problem with a few extra pieces of fun facts but this triva section is dominating a fairly large piece of the page. If no one has any problems I might remove a few of the less needed ones.


 * I'm adding one trivia. Does Sonic can yell almost similar to the next gen Sonic game? MetaCracken (talk) 22:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

he has a lot of background and notes i really dont care Killerface45 (talk) 14:58, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Reason for Low Tier Status?
Most of the Top and Low Tier characters have reasons listed for why they are positioned where they are (like PT, Samus, C. Falcon, Snake, and Meta Knight). Why isn't there any info for Sonic? Could someone add that please? There's also no info for Mario. --Riko (talk) 20:18, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Why on earth does Sonic have a Low Tier? Did the person who wrote this article even play as Sonic? Sonic is actually the best character in the game if you know how to use him. I do admit that Sonic is probably the hardest character to get used to (it took me a long time after I unlocked him), but once you know how to use him you can eaisly beat anybody who is a level 9. I can even take on a 3 man team of level 9 opponents and win with Sonic (the only other character I can do this with is DK and that is a hard task!). Sonic can easily do a a quick knockout by: Using spindash and jump while hitting your opponent so that he will rise in the air, Use forward air on the opponent to send them flying closer to the screen and follow them, use forward air again to knock them off the screen, then come back to the stage and use up B to reach the ledge (it is a pretty good recovery because I always manage to reach the ledge even if I am at the end).


 * The article (and the tier status) aren't based on beating CPUs, but rather on tournament results and what the Smash Back Room decides based on them. Perhaps Sonic is your main, but that doesn't necessarily make him higher tier. {My name is Miles, and I approve this message.} 19:56, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, then what on earth is this tournament that people keep talking about? I played against people who are good with other characters and yet I can still win easily. If this tournement involves internet connection, I can't do it, but if not, I would like to do it to just show you how valuable of a character Sonic is. Also, Sonic's frontal smash is one of the best smashes in the game because it is pretty to use especially after dodging another person's attack. I would just like to give Sonic more credit than what people give him. I can probably see why people have trouble with him at the beginning, but give it practice and he can be your most valuable player, but then I guess most people don't like repetive practice with a character when they can use an easier character to control.
 * This should be in a forum, but whatever. It's not just one tournament - it's the overall rankings on one tournament. 'Easy to control' means nothing. He's a low-blow in tournaments worldwide. Participate in tournaments, and Sonic will grow higher. Marth grew higher after Ken and Mew2King started owning with him. As well as this, the Smash Back Room provides matchups and take time to go over all the pros and cons. When techniques are found, they change, as well as the tier list. For example; his forward smash may be one of his best moves, but it's laggy. Same with all his other finishers. Meta Knight and Falco can easily pwn Sonic's weaknesses. SBR has control of every tournament placed on Smashboards, and other tournaments, as long as its official. Yes, this can matter with online connection too, and you can find plenty in many Smash forums.

TL;DR Participate in tournaments and you will find everything. Meteorite (talk) 15:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I get the impression that you don't actually play any of the other characters. I can play almost all of the characters in the game, and I'd say Sonic is about one of the worst. You seem to be confusing your opinion with fact, and if you don't like the tiers (God knows I don't) then put it on your userpage and talk page.  Ike's Best Buddy GREAT AETHER!  10:31, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Please, I am not trying to confuse opinion with fact. I have some friends that do not like Sonic, but when they are trying to beat a whole bunch of level 9 computers or intense bosses, they use Sonic. It is also a lot of fun to use Sonic. You can do some pretty fun things with Sonic. For example, I guess you all know of the All-Star mode. Well, one thing I like to do with Sonic is select the hardest difficulty and play him against the first character, Mr. Game & Watch. When the screen says go, I quickly do a spin charge (if that is what down B is called, not the spin where Sonic jumps at the beginning) and when I hit Mr. Game & Watch, I jump while still spinning so that the cpu also comes up in the air and is near the end of the screen, then I use dair on him quickly and watch him go out. It has got to be the quickest knockout in the game: my record is 2seconds and 25milliseconds! And yes, I do like using other characters as well including Donkey Kong, Mario, Link, Falcon, and Fox. I am pretty good with all 6 characters, but the best one I found out of them happened to be Sonic. Why? His speed gives him the advantage not to mention that he is stronger than most people give him credit for. His moves differ in speed and strength, so when you are going against a fast moving character like Marth, I use continual spindash, fair, and strong side since they are all fast attacks, and when I fight a strong guy like Bowser, I use stronger attacks like side smash, down smash, up smash, up strong, bair, and dair. I know almost all of the character's strengths and weaknesses so I know how to fight against them. Do you wish to contiune this discussion? LOAP

I'm going to point out that the guys who make the tier lists don't know everything about Brawl, seeing as how low Mario is. Mario has a lot of untapped potential. And the cape is the absolute most useful reflector in the game! Who else can make a Piplup turn on its master? -SalaComMander


 * Go to the forums. Next person to edit this section (or any similar section on a talk page) gets banned.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 19:31, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect info
Note to SW users. please actually PLAY brawl before posting information, it has been proven to result in an increase in intelligent posts. (common sense 2008)

Sonic does NOT have a gimpable recovery. howvever the rest is correct. poor matchups overall is the main, if not ONLY factor as to why he was placed 33rd. his recovery is about as gimpable as metaknights, as in the only reason you wont be able to recover is if your opponent pulled your controller out of the wii.

strong up attack does not have very minimal knockback, its actually his 4th strongest move when it comes to KO's (fsmash, dsmash, bair, utilt). its knockback isnt much (wont ko until about 170 from FD's surface) but it most certainly isnt weak.

side smash. has bad startup speed, and the range is actually quite good. the hitbox is invisible and hits a fair amount further than you can see.

everything else here is so poorly written looks like it was done by a primary/elementary school student. Seriously need someone to clean up this whole page.

Djbrowny (talk) 05:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sonic does have a gimpable recovery, once he uses the spring and anyone attacks him away and edgehogs, hes gone. Ya know, there IS a Cleanup Template that you can just post on the page. If you want to change the info, no one is stopping you. [[User:JtM|JtM =^&#93; (talk) 06:41, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait, doesn't attacking him after the up-B renew the use of it? Anyways, you're right about being able to edgehog him, but I always use the Gimpy Death Grab (at 3:26). Shade (talk) 06:50, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * yes he can be gimped out of his upb by grabbing, but that most definitely was not a reason he was put 33rd. you know you can actually perform the same gimp grab on Dedede's upb? its never going to happen against anyone who knows how to play, it only works against people who dont know about it. you can also edgehog metaknights upb when he goes for the ledge and he falls to his death. doesnt mean its ever going to happen

Can't use 2 springs
I'm getting rid of the part where it says that Sonic can use 2 springs if his Spring Jump is used on the ground and is followed by another Spring Jump. I should know this, I am a very good Sonic player. 76.105.234.235 06:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You have to touch the ground BEFORE you step on the standing spring. Then it works. - Gargomon251 (talk) 09:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

And just being a Sonic player doesn't mean you know everything about him. I play Ike and I knew that  Ike's Best Buddy GREAT AETHER!  10:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

All that you have to do mate is bounce off the ground, get off the spring, get back on, and use the spring again. LOAP

Edgehogging isnt a problem if use his side special--Lilman93 (talk) 19:11, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Tiers are useless
Don't let tiers mess up your choice of characters, it's your opinion, not anyone elses.--SuperSonic (talk) 18:20, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, I main in Sonic and Fox and they are both in low-tiers and I still own people with them.Jay man 20:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so let's go over what you've accomplished here:
 * You said nothing about the actual content of the page
 * You completely ignored the fact that we have forums for things like this. Smoreking (T)  (c)  16:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

@Jay man: Dude, did you know that Fox's rank on the Japanese tier list is higher than on the American tier list? PurpleDarkness (talk) 11:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Have you seen Japanenese players using Fox? Their pretty beastie. Thats probably why fox is at a higher tier.

Origins of Sonic's moves
I do not take any credit for this discovery. I thought the discoveries from this video were worthy of mention in this wiki. The page is locked, so all I can do is post here. Getting to the point, a LOT of Sonic's attacks are taken from/reminiscent of moves from Sonic the Fighters, namely these moves: It's more likely his Dash attack was taken from the 2D Sonic games, but Sonic's Dash attack is the same in both Brawl and Fighters. Although the animation of his Down air in Fighters and Down air in Brawl are very different, they are virtually the same in function. The animation for his Down air in Brawl was closer to his Standard air in Sonic Battle.
 * Neutral attack
 * Strong side
 * Up tilt
 * Down tilt
 * Dash attack
 * Forward smash
 * Neutral air
 * Forward air
 * Down air
 * Down throw
 * Wall jump

67.119.193.60 06:41, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's already in there. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 16:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Hedgehogocide
Can't Sonic perform a sacrificial KO with his back throw, can anyone confirm this, I have definitely suicidally KOed Ike with the spiky haired freak's back throw. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.159.66 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 29 May 2009


 * Yes,he can, it especially works on Bridge of Eldin.B-52

he can its called Sonicide Killerface45 (talk) 15:01, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Rating
I was just wondering, does anybody think that there any jobs for this article? I'd be happy to help, if that is the case.--SEGA Rules! 17:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Subspace Emissary Entrance
The Entrance could've been better, it would've been an improvement if they put in a short version of "What I'm Made Of" --Vae Infectus (talk) 21:42, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

It really would've been better if Sonic said something. It's not like him to not say something to his opponent. -SalaComMander

it could but that was there choise not ours Killerface45 (talk) 15:03, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Subspace Emissary is non-canon
"Near the end of The Subspace Emissary, Sonic suddenly appears, seemingly from nowhere, and with no explanation provided of how he got there. One possible explanation is that by harnessing the power of the Chaos Emeralds to use use Chaos Control, he could simply shift himself through time and space into the dimension in which Subspace lies. There are also speculations claiming Sonic was put so late in the game due to his late installation in the game itself."

This Trivia has nothing to do with Sonic the Hedgehog canon or Subspace Emissary please stop putting it back up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lamarfll (talk • contribs) 1:51, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Um, exactly how is that not related to Sonic the Hedgehog canon? It relates to the fact that Sonic could use Chaos Control in Sonic Adventure 2, and that this may be how Sonic managed to escape being killed. The last sentence may be a bit unrelated, but the entire statement is good. Also, the SSE is canon, because it's in the game itself and part of the storyline of that game; it's just as canon as the Adventure Mode of Melee. Could you explain to us your reasoning for removing the statement? Also, please sign your comments with ~ . Thanks,  R A  N 1 02:18, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the point here is that the SSE's canon is not intended to be linked to the canon of any originating series (although people like me try to make it work, and that's probably where the trivia came from). In my opinion, the trivia about Sonic simply showing up at the end for no reason is valid - even though the speculation about how he did it may not be. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  03:25, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

yes he probaly used chaos control that or he found shadow Killerface45 (talk) 15:05, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sonic's swim time
As the video name implies, here's your damn proof. Now, is there something someone would like to say to me? Something along the lines of "You were right, and I was wrong"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHXQiNfMV7U —Preceding unsigned comment added by SalaComMander (talk • contribs) 00:19 April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * You could have been a bit more polite (and signed your post with ~ ). But good, it's nice for someone to finally post a definitive test. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  00:25, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I could've been more polite, but after all the arguing I have to do with people, I take pleasure in proving that I'm right. Oh, yes, I forgot to sign, how silly of me. -SalaComMander

Up-Smash
Sonic's upsmash has very brief invincibility frames (as seen here). Shouldn't this be mentioned in his upsmash description? It says this in the upsmash list but not here. F1reBurn1ng (talk) 21:21, 31 May 2012 (EDT)
 * Go ahead and put it in then. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Hammer 23:13, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

Unused Beta Costumes?
I was perusing the texture files of a mod called Smash 3 and I found some mugshots of Sonic in different colors. Brown, Pink/Magenta, Cyan, Black with red at the beginning of his gloves and white with yellow at the beginning of his gloves, they weren't in the style of the mod, and matched up almost perfectly with SSBB's art so I'm wondering if anyone can confirm if there's these pictures in the unmodded version of this game? I swear I didn't make these. pic of the mugshots.
 * If it's a mod, then it's something people added into the game itself. This isn't news at all. Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 13:50, 9 September 2015 (EDT)

KID Goggles
A very notable Sonic main, having appeared at GOML 2014, and I was combing around Smashboards, and found his Apex 2014 placement. He should have his own page.

(Daze072401 (talk) 18:40, 12 March 2016 (EST))
 * Good, but attending tournaments alone isn't proof. What were his results in those tournaments? PenroPenroDarkPitHead.png PenroZSSHead.png 18:42, 12 March 2016 (EST)

Bruh, we even had his result at GOML 2014 on this wiki. Anyways, 9th at GOML 2014, and 65th at Apex 2014 (too low? Why do we have Scary LGB then?), along w/ a 7th place finish at NEC 16 (we take those tournaments; I mean, just look at 6WX's page).

(Daze072401 (talk) 19:24, 12 March 2016 (EST))
 * Now I agree. PenroPenroDarkPitHead.png PenroZSSHead.png 19:25, 12 March 2016 (EST)