Talk:Projectile/Archive 1

Definition
I think the definition of a projectile in this article is very uncertain. Many hitboxss leaves the characters body. Maybe we should only take attacks other than item throws that can be reflected as projectiles?Timothyung 10:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Isn't Snake's Up Special a Projectile? The Cypher flies up, creating a Hitbox...


 * yes it is. i've been hit by it before it's only a little bit of damage but it does inflict some. Carbonkirby 06:50, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I would consider a projectile to be an attack that moves INDEPENDENTLY of the character. So basically it moves regardless of what the player is doing. Items ARE a projectile in the looser sense. Things like swords and other disjointed hitboxes would not count here, even things like Aether. Maybe the definition of projectile could have to do with how they are stopped. Plain old attacks don't get stopped by Resetti or breakable scenery but projectile do. But then this brings the question of Robo Beam, which is only stopped by vertical walls. It's a bit tricky.- Gargomon251 08:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, other than some PK attacks, most projectiles keep moving even after the user is struck or KOd. Thus I still don't consider Reflector or Aether  projectiles, since they have preprogrammed paths that cannot be stopped by walls etc. All projectiles are stopped by walls, right? But what about something like Zero Laser? Is this a "projectile" ir just a VERY VERY LONG disjointed hitbox? Think about it! This and Mario Finale more or less remain attached to the character, right? - Gargomon251 (talk) 01:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oil Panic = not projectile.-Gargomon251 (talk) 01:23, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the best way the identify a projectile is the hit lag. The projectile user will not receive hit lag when the projectile hits. And ALL attacks that can be reflected are projectiles. - Timothyung (talk) 03:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I just found the best and easiest way to identify whether the attack is a projectile or not. Just use a METAL BOX. - Timothyung (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, that doesn't work. Force Palm still picks up Metal Boxes, but Snake's fsmash doesn't. This would imp;y the opposite of what is actually the case. - Gargomon251 (talk) 00:52, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If a projectile is an attack that moves independently of the character, then by that definition Pit's Arrows aren't a projectile. MooseEatsBear (talk) 20:07, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Falco ssbb
Is Falco's reflector in brawl a projectile? Masterman (talk) 18:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is. I had added it a while ago, but someone got rid of it. It functions just like the boomerangs, but with shorter range and other properties. But it is still projected and meets the definition. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 18:41, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if is a projectile just because it leaves the hitbox. Most projectiles can be reflected or abosrbed, but his reflector cannot. Also, it doesn't really leave the collision bubbles either. I think of his Reflector more like a tilt instead. But I guess this is disputable... ItemHazard (talk) 20:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ItemHazard


 * I think that it is more like a disjointed hitbox than a projectile. It's just like Fox's reflector, but with a bit more range. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 02:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Pikmander about Falco's Reflector in Brawl being a disjointed hitbox. If Falco uses it while falling, the reflector doesn't go above him, proving that it's disjointed. Other than being able to reflect projectiles, Falco's reflector isn't comparable to Fox's and Wolf's reflectors though.--TStick (talk) 16:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I honestly believe its a projectile as it travels very much like one.The collision bubble does leave Falco as well. If one uses a projectile when the reflector is at its farthest between Falco then there is no reflection.On a side note it is just as useful as Fox's and Wolf's. Please do not make an edit when we have yet to reach a consensus.(or have we?) - Hatake91 (talk) 20:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, the Reflector is no more a projectile than Great Aether is. It can't be reflected or absorbed, it doesn't move independantly, is interrupted by flinching, and it goes through solid walls. It's just a standard disjointed hitbox that just happens to make a small gap between itself and the character. - Gargomon251 (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Remember it doesn't have to be able to be reflected or absorbed for it to be a projectile. But I guess its decided that Falco's Reflector is technically a disjointed hitbox with odd properties, that Nintendo put in as an excuse to say: Look! He kicks his reflector so he's not a clone anymore! - Hatake91 (talk) 00:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Lucario
Wouldn't his force palm be counted as a projectile? Hatake91 (talk)

Not Sure. ItemHazard (talk) 20:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ItemHazard
 * Not at all, it's just a disjointed hitbox. It doesn't move on its own like any true projectile.
 * See discussion below. It's not that simple - Gargomon251 (talk) 17:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Diddy Kong
Aren't his barrels counted as a projectile? If he gets hit while using UpB, they eventually leave his collision bubbles. ItemHazard (talk) 20:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC) ItemHazard
 * In that case, absolutely.- Gargomon251 (talk) 01:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Additionally, it CAN be reflected, but won't always seek targets. - Gargomon251 (talk) 04:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Disable
Is disable a projectile? It's proven that it can be reflected, but it's very short range and limited use makes it hard to tell... - Gargomon251 (talk) 01:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

If it can be reflected, then it's a projectile. At least, that's what I think. - GalaxiaD (talk) 01:47, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Waddle Dee Toss can't be reflected...-Gargomon251 (talk) 03:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

any attack reflected by a reflector is a projectile.72.197.66.113 04:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This is a case of "all A are B, but not all B are A". I suppose you're right in this case.- Gargomon251 (talk) 04:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Waddle Dee Toss can be reflected, but the Waddle Dee/Doo just bounce to the ground after being reflected.- Timothyung (talk) 05:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Force Palm
This one is tricky. Upon testing, I discovered that it could be absorbed by Oil Panic and PSI Magnet, as well as reflected in a similar manner to Thunder. HOWEVER it never really leaves Lucario's collision bubbles, the grab overrides any projectile effects, and it can't ever hurt the same Lucario that used it, even at the closest range. The attack pattern seems almost more like a disjointed hitbox that you'd get from a sword etc. And as far as I know, the "flare" stops when Lucario is struck. Any ideas? I will add this information to the Force Palm page regardless. - Gargomon251 (talk) 12:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

It is a projectile. Try using it in the air. The blast stays at the same place, rather than moving with Lucario. It's simular to the blizzard.Timothyung (talk) 05:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Blizzard
Is it a projectile? Or a disjointed hitbox? --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 13:55, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Projectile. Can be reflected, 90% sure it can be absorbed, and it moves regardless of the Climbers: in other words, if they move forward (in midair or on ice) the Blizzard has shorter range. Think of it as an Ice element Fire Flower. - Gargomon251 (talk) 14:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Needle Storm
I would consider Needle Storm more of a disjointed hitbox... wouldn't you? Kperfekt722 (talk) 16:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Why??? What makes it any different from Falco's Blaster? Or PK Fire, if you consider the angle... It can be reflected, and blocked by characters or items, and reaches WAY too far to be a disjointed hitbox. I don't see why there's any question. - Gargomon251 (talk) 17:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

well yeah, but it doesn't go all that far in front of her, and (correct me if im wrong as i dont play as her much) but isn't it true she cant move after she has charged it? Kperfekt722 (talk) 00:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, she can. Needle storm is a projectile, end of discussion.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Olimar
Are his smashes projectiles? It seems that Olimar does not receive hit lag. And also his grab. - Timothyung (talk) 03:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * His fsmash can't be reflected, and loses its hitbox, after a while, but I would sort of consider it a projectile....I would need to see when its interruptible frames are. - Gargomon251 (talk) 05:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When his smashes hits a metal box, olimar doesn't turn into metal. So they are projectiles. - Timothyung (talk) 13:16, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm still going to test the duration of the damage. The metal box is no longer an argument. - Gargomon251 (talk) 01:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Duck test says they are projectiles. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 04:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

What?
how in the world are Inhale/Swallow projectiles?? they have a grab hitbox meaning technically they can't be projectiles! - Hatake91 (talk) 19:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Inhale > Split out. - Timothyung (talk) 19:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

F.L.U.D.D?
Uh... --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 21:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello? Anyone? What do you think about Mario's F.L.U.D.D? Is it a projectile? --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 14:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Reflect it. - 71.90.137.45 16:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Duck test says yes. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 04:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What is this "duck test" of which you speak? - Gargomon251 (talk) 22:06, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gargomon, try crouching. I think Clarinet Hawk meant that since he can dodge the move by ducking down, it is classified as a projectile. Also, IPA, water can not be reflected, only blocked, by reflectors.  Blue  Ninjakoopa  23:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a ridiculous criteria. There's many non-projectiles that can be ducked and projectiles that can't. If I can find no better evidence, I'm changing the Pikmin entry. - Gargomon251 (talk) 05:55, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought the water could be reflected by caping...? Miles ( talk)   23:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * nop  Blue  Ninjakoopa  01:47, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Yoshi Bomb
The stars can be reflected and absorbed. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 21:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

More of a shockwave than a projectile. I'm Alex25, King of Randomness! Say Hi to me! Random stuff! 21:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

King Dedede's aren't projectiles.  Blue Ninjakoopa  Happy Holidays 17:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Pikamander2
If you can't read, there was a discussion about Lucario's force palm not being a projectile, but rather a disjointed hitbox. I don't want an edit war.  Blue Ninjakoopa  Happy Holidays 17:22, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Upon looking at the section again, it looks like it was never agreed upon. There are several reasons why it should be considered be a projectile, and why it shouldn't be. I'll take it off of the page for now, but what do you think we should do about pseudo-projectiles? There is still no clear definition of what a projectile is. Maybe they should be included on the page, but then the Unique Properties section would explain what makes them different? --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 17:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for being so understanding =) Define pseudo-projectile?  Blue Ninjakoopa  Happy Holidays 17:37, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

By pseudo-projectile, I mean an attack that has some projectile properties, but some normal-attack properties too. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 17:41, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you mean that, I think all projectiles should be listed that can be reflected. What I consider pseudo-projectiles oare Din's Fire and Snake's U-smash. Also, King Dedede's Waddle Dee's are unable to be reflected, as his Gordo's are.  Blue Ninjakoopa  Happy Holidays 17:44, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I think we should do. Does anybody else have another idea? --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 17:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

How about we use a separate chart?  Blue Ninjakoopa  Happy Holidays 17:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but that would bring up the problem of which attacks should go onto the normal chart, and which ones should go onto the separate chart. --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 01:19, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

ZSS's suit that falls off- where does it go? It should be a projectile, just like Gyro.  Fried beef  1    Ho ho ho!   17:58, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, should it go under Samus or ZSS? --Posted by Pikamander2   (Talk)  at 18:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Kirby Chef?
I read someone claim somewhere that if Kirby copies G&W and uses Chef, the projectile functions as an energy projectile instead of a physical one. Can anyone confirm this? Miles ( talk)  15:32, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just tested, it's true. For testing I used GW's Bucket to check. Kirby's would absorb but not GW's. Smoreking (T)  (c)  00:15, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Oil panic can absorb G&W's own chef. It's the only phsical projectile it can absorve. Try it with Ness' PSI magnet. 98.117.158.220 01:17, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Aether
Is the part when Ike throws the sword up a projectile? Cause it can damage enemies. 98.117.158.220 23:30, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt it, it can't be reflected in any manner, and it has no properties of a projectile, other than leaving Ike's body. Smoreking (T)  (c)  00:15, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * It fits the def. 98.117.158.220 00:20, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aether is like Falco's reflector: while it's disjointed, it never produces an independent object. That by me is the definition of a projectile. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px]] eXemplary Logic  The Stats Guy  The Table Designer  00:24, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Why the arbitrary restriction?
Is there any particular reason why Final Smash projectiles aren't listed on this page? Toomai Glittershine 21:06, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Lucas's Up Smash
Olimar's Up Smash is classed as a projectile, so should Lucas's be? Toast Ultimatum   Complaints Box  14:16, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * it cant be picked up, absorbed, nor reflected... (-O-)Lucas -IV- pikaaaa[[Image:Lucas alive.PNG|25px]] 14:18, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * whoop should've read the article first, but im not sure (-O-)Lucas -IV- pikaaaa[[Image:Lucas alive.PNG|25px]] 14:21, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Speaking of which, projectile is defined as "an attack that moves independently of the character that used it". Do Olimar's smashes really satisfy that condition? Smiddle君怒る? 17:16, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Yes, because there is a spot in between the Pikmin and Olimar where there is no hitbox. Mr. Anon (talk) 17:21, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * So the "definition" isn't a definition? Smiddle君怒る? 17:23, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Once a Pikmin smash is released, Olimar can get smacked and the Pikmin will continue to hurt people. That's enough desynchronization to be considered a projectile in my opinion. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Producer 20:39, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

I would agree with Toomai, an attack that still continues despite the user being hit would constitute as a projectile. Lucas' up smash does not have that property.

I would argue however, that Snake's down smash and C4 are not projectiles. The definition of a projectile is "any object propelled through space by the application of a force". They are planted, where they then damage once their hitboxes are triggered, not utilised by being shot or thrown. That does not fit the definition of a projectile. Omega  Tyrant   21:56, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
 * We need to decide on a definition of projectile. The actual definition is what you said, but I always saw it as meaning an attack that has a hitbox separate from its user. With your definition, yes, D-smash and C4 are not projectiles, but they have separate hitboxes from Snake, so I think they should be considered projectiles. Mr. Anon (talk) 15:27, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * By a simple definition of a hitbox separate from its user, disjointed hitboxes would be considered projectiles. Just go with the actual definition, it makes sense, and applies to everything we have as projectiles now, except for Snake's down smash and C4. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:23, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Disjointed hitboxes aren't necessarily seperate; look at Falco's Reflector, it's part of Falco and moves along with him despite being visually disjoint. "Seperate" in this case would mean "attached to a prop that has physics independent of the user" - something which covers everything on the page and doesn't bring in anything new. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Victorious 19:29, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * True, but the point still stands that the behavior of Snake's down smash and C4 do not match that of a projectile, nor fit the actual definition. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:15, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * If you mean "actual definition" by "real-world definition", then no. But why do we have to use the real-world definition when it seems like most people accept the one where a projectile is any independent object? In any case C4 is certainly a projectile when used in the air; why would it stop being a projectile when it lands? Grenades are still projectiles once they stop moving. Down smash I agree is iffy either way. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Different 20:41, 11 September 2011 (EDT)


 * OK, I'm not necessarilly opposed to this definition, but there are a few things that I think should be explained. First, there are moves that are generally agreed to be projectiles but don't match your definition, such as Samus' bombs. Then there are many things not thought to be projectiles that do fit your defintion, such as Falco's reflector, Mewtwo's disable, Ike's Aether, and Pikachu's side smash. Perhaps we should combine your defintion with saying "if it can be reflected or absorbed". Mr. Anon (talk) 20:53, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Not sure who you're replying to here. I will say however that there are various projectiles that can't be reflected or absorbed, so that's not good to base a definition off of. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Non-Toxic 21:06, 11 September 2011 (EDT)


 * @Anon: Noticed the second part of the definition "and whose hitbox operates independently of the character that used it". That excludes Falco's reflector and Aether. For Samus' bombs, it's iffy, but they can be reflected, and that appears to me as the game considering them a projectile.


 * @Toomai: I don't see why C4 is considered a projectile in the air. It's not expelled by force (Snake is simply dropping it to plant it), and it does not have its own hitbox when falling. Plus, the C4's hitbox technically doesn't operate independently of Snake until the timer runs out, as it relies on Snake to detonate it (and hitting Snake during the detonation sequence would stop it from detonating). With Snake's Grenades, I don't see them as being projectile if just dropped on the ground, but they can still be thrown as projectiles. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:11, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Samus's Bombs are projectiles not because they can be reflected, but because they have their own independent physics.
 * C4 does operate independently from Snake - it doesn't follow his movements or share freeze frames. Just because its natural action is "sit there" doesn't mean it's not acting on its own (same with the down smash) - yes it needs a signal to detonate, but many other projectiles need signals to explode or curve. It also acts completely independently when it's stuck on someone; it has its own tagback timer and disconnection chance.
 * You're still using a definition imported from the real world without consensus instead of a definition that the community has essentially assimilated over the last decade. It's not feasible to try and change that. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Victorious 21:29, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * "C4 does operate independently from Snake - it doesn't follow his movements or share freeze frames."


 * I was referring to its hitbox, not the C4 as a whole. But regardless...


 * "yes it needs a signal to detonate, but many other projectiles need signals to explode or curve."


 * Curving is irrelevant to if something is projectile. I'll concede on the signal needing to explode however.


 * "You're still using a definition imported from the real world without consensus instead of a definition that the community has essentially assimilated over the last decade. It's not feasible to try and change that."


 * The defining factor of a projectile is that it moves through the air with an application of force. There's no arguing that. And there's no doubt this was in the mind of this so called definition assimilated by the community. Ultimately though, there's no exact definition created by the community to refer to, just generalisations. With the C4, it acts independently, but it lacks that defining factor of a projectile.


 * Just say, there was theoretically a move involving someone dropping a small robot, that then goes after and attacks opponents. It acts completely independently of the character, with its own independent physics. Would we consider this a projectile? If you're going by something being independent of the character, then yes it would be. Though I'm sure the majority of players wouldn't see it as one, and I wouldn't think of it as a projectile at all. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:24, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Would it be considered a projectile by the community (as in "This attack is a projectile")? No. Would it be called a projectile by the community (as in "Link has three projectiles")? Yes. Unless we come up with some new term, there is no middle ground between "projectile" and "not projectile". And since this thing defines "projectile" as "An object produced by a character or the stage that operates independently of its user. Projectiles that deal damage do not transfer any hitlag to their user.", and our list of projectiles as of a day ago fit said definition perfectly, I see no reason to try and change something that quite honestly no one will buy into. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Wacko 23:46, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * If we go with OT's new definition, I foresee many IPs and other random users changing the pages to include C4 as a projectile, and when we revert it will make us look bad. It honestly doesn't matter as it is just a small little detail, so, we should just go with what the Brawl community already has firmly planted in their heads.  Ƌoӄԏo яΠ ɛ ə и 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 00:15, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Problem with that definition on its own, it misses the point of what a projectile is. Being a mere object that operates independently of the user is not enough to qualify for being a projectile. The object has to actually be propelled at the opponent to be a projectile.


 * "Unless we come up with some new term, there is no middle ground between "projectile" and "not projectile."


 * This is rather irrelevant, no new term is needed. Simple fact is, Snake's C4 and down smash are "not projectiles". They're indirect attacks. They're objects that operate independently of Snake with hitboxes. They're explosives. But they're not projectiles, and no special term is needed to not call them one.


 * "It honestly doesn't matter as it is just a small little detail, so, we should just go with what the Brawl community already has firmly planted in their heads."


 * Look at the priority issue. Many players got it planted in their heads that Falcon's f-smash is of "low priority". Simple fact is, it does not, it actually has rather high priority. Should we go let them say it has low priority anyway, because they misunderstand what priority is? Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:40, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

Also, I realized another thing: Sonics Spring jump. It has a hitbox, and it operates independently of Sonic, so should it be considered a projectile? Mr. Anon (talk) 00:28, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Oh, and Mewtwo's disable, which is generally not considered a projectile, can be reflected according to some of the previous conversations here. Mr. Anon (talk) 00:30, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * Yes to both, they are propelled by force, and operate independently of the user. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 00:42, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * But Sonic's Spring jump is not projected by force, just like Snake's C4 is technically not. And unlike Samus' bombs, it cannot be reflected. Mr. Anon (talk) 00:46, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * @OT: The priority thing is a provable fact, while Snake's C4 being a projectile is left up to what the game or fanbase defines a projectile to be. Also, you said many players, which are the uneducated ones; many players do realise that Falcon's f-smash has high priority when you are the only person who doesn't seem to of think C4 as a projectile.
 * @Anon: When used in the air, it is propelled by force. It says that in the article.  Ƌoӄ<font color=#6E0000>ԏ<font color=#370000>o яΠ ɛ ə и 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 00:54, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * What's not to say those calling Snake's C4 a projectile are any less uneducated than those saying Falcon's f-smash has low priority? True that most players now realise Captain Falcon having low priority was a myth, but no so long back then, it was a rampant belief, that you could see plastered throughout his article. It was rampant enough where a little over a year ago, I had to argue with CHawk that Falcon didn't have crap priority in his attacks. CHawk was arguing the common belief of the time, but did that mean I was wrong because my argument didn't support what the community said?


 * "The priority thing is a provable fact, while Snake's C4 being a projectile is left up to what the game or fanbase defines a projectile to be."


 * If the game saw Snake's C4 as a projectile, then I would drop this. However, as it states in the article; "The vast majority of enemies in the Subspace Emissary resist projectiles - in fact, only Porky, Meta Ridley, and Tabuu do not. It's currently unknown whether this resistance is against projectiles specifically or against all indirect special attacks."


 * With that, it's not known what the game considers a projectile and what to be just an indirect attack. As I'm arguing, Snake's C4 and down smash are just the latter.


 * For the fanbase's "definition", as I seen, people are pretty uncertain what technically constitutes a projectile and what doesn't. Yeah Toomai linked that Smash Lab thing, but as I shown, its definition is flawed, and includes things that simply do not fit the proper definition of a projectile. I'll also clarify, that I'm not really changing the definition, but clarifying it. The only things removed from our list with my edit are Snake's C4 and down smash.


 * With that, why is the definition I wrote down flawed, when it practically applies to any game? And when you think of a projectile, you think of something being shot or thrown, not an object that operates independently of you, correct? Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:33, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * From what I understand, anything that's an independent object is a projectile from the code's perspective, while Special:Direct and Special:Indirect are controlled by some flag or property I have yet to isolate. C4 shares the same set of flags as Snake's grenades, and the down smash shares all flags but SFX, so maybe by looking at that later I can see what's up. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Eggster 07:13, 12 September 2011 (EDT)