Talk:Lucina (SSB4)

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Trivia point about the website is not true: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.26.240.80 (talk • contribs) 10:06, July 14, 2014 (CDT)
 * The browser version of the site gave Lucina a small slot however. ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is made in America 11:18, 14 July 2014 (EDT)


 * Hm. It's not like that on web. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:18, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * I figure there is some miscommunication between Sakurai and the website designers (especially what with her most likely being an alternate skin for Marth). Let's just call her a Newcomer until we get an official confirmation of what she really is. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  11:24, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Why is she "most likely an alternate skin"? She got her own "Lucina joins the battle"-type thing. None of the other skins did. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:25, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * She's not an alternate skin. She just shares some moves with Marth, which perplexes me because I thought Sakurai was done with [semi-]clones not named Toon Link.  blue  ninjakoopa  11:27, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * This isn't the place to discuss it, so I'll just point out the ? after her 参戦!/Wakes Her Blade! (among other things) and leave it at that. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  11:31, 14 July 2014 (EDT)


 * Depending on what we come up with, we can add it to the page. I'm not sure about the "Wakes Her Blade?!" thing, but I do not think she'd be an alternate skin. The other alternate skins are just outfits whereas this is a character, and (again) she got her "Joins The Battle" moment. And she's on the website. If it were truly a mistake, wouldn't Chrom be there too? I don't see why they would make just one mistake. Her stance is a little different, and I'm pretty sure she had some attacks Marth doesn't. There is no true proof that she is a costume, besides some similar attacks (which is a reference to her pretending to be Marth, I'm sure), whereas there is lots of proof that she's a unique character. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:36, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * (Edit conflict) "Among other things?" The question mark is definitely interesting. Also, as this is Lucina's talk page, it's definitely the place to discuss her controversial status. Don't leave, defend your theory.  blue  ninjakoopa  11:38, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Okay, if you think discussing it will be good for the article, every single move she has been shown to use so far has been exactly the same as Marth, she was shown first in the trailer and yet was given less screen time, as well as despite this, her gameplay being shown later in the trailer instead of first (both like with Charizard on his reveal), the 参戦!? as opposed to the usual 参戦!, along with these mixups on the websites, the fact that no trailer has revealed multiple newcomers as of yet, and the fact that many characters have been given alternate-gender costumes. I don't know why you say there is any proof she's a unique character; there isn't proof of either side of this argument yet, but aside from the fact that she is actually a seperate person from Marth (unlike the other genderswap costumes, which are technically different people, but fill the same role in gameplay), there isn't much pushing for her being a unique one. I don't see how Chrom has anything to do with it; he was very obviously not a playable character, and regardless, making a single mistake is more likely than making all possible mistakes, don't you think? ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  11:47, 14 July 2014 (EDT)


 * Sakurai posted about the image showing the "newcomers". So unless he was referring to Mega Man, I think she's separate. Nutta Butta (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

She has a character page. This alone should end the conversation. Unless Sakurai explicitly says she's an alternate for Marth as opposed to a clone, she will be treated as a separate character. End of story. Miles ( talk)  11:53, 14 July 2014 (EDT)
 * @Miles: I agree, we should treat her as a newcomer until/unless otherwise is confirmed.
 * @Nutta: That could easily be a translation issue; Japanese rarely distinguishes between singular and plural in the same way English does. Anyways, we'll probably find out soon enough. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  11:57, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Not trying to fire this up again, but I think it's also worth noting that Marth does not wield Lucina's disguise mask at all, while we've already seen Lucina holding it, and the fact that even on the web version of the Smash 4 site in the news they say "The introduction for a new challenger, Lucina, is now available." In tandem with the information we already have, the fact that we have never gotten less than two clones, or semi-clones (i.e. Luigi and Jigglypuff, 20% of Melee, Lucas and Toon Link) in each new installment, I think we can safely assume that she is her own character. Laikue (talk) 14:22, 14 July 2014 (EDT)

Sakurai says: Actual roster spot. https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqGH9l5mlg MalcolmReynolds (talk) 03:43, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

I understand this is a pretty explosive page as it is, but I just want to point out that, in today's Miiverse Post, Sakurai said that Lucina's 'physical abilities' are identical to Marth's, but didn't say anything about her moveset (aside from the sweetspot stuff). I would say that he's talking about Lucina's physics being the same as Marth's, but I can't quite be sure. Either way, he didn't outright say that Lucina has the exact same moveset, and we didn't see her entire moveset in her trailer, so I think that we should change the thing that says her moveset is identical to Marth's. Maybe we could have it say that they are clones to an extent that we're unsure of as of yet? Nymbare  and his talk  09:54, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Its 2019 now we already know Lucina-is-better-than-marth (talk) 22:28, November 5, 2019 (EST)

Lag
Look at the landing lag of this; it looks just like Marth's L-cancelled nair in Melee. Lucina seems to be a less powerful but less laggy version of Marth so far. Is it worth mentioning that her moves appear to have less lag? S c r 7 (talk · contribs) 11:27, 15 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Lag is something very iffy to write about, as it could very easily be tweaked in the final version. The supposed laggy Marth we got at the Invitational could have easily gotten some lag reduction since, so it's something that we should avoid writing about it for now. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 11:30, 15 July 2014 (EDT)

Japanese Miiverse Post
- [This] actually says that her "combat techniques" are identical to Marth's. Well, more specifically, it says her "Taijutsu" is the same. Taijutsu is commonly used in Japanese to refer to martial arts in general. I'm posting it on the talk page instead of in the article because I figure using a Japanese post as a reference wouldn't be enough proof to change her known moveset section, but I thought I'd spread the news. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥ 12:29, 15 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Might as well use this section to point out that the Famitsu scans make this even clearer by using ワザ (which Sakurai uses when talking about normal and special attacks). Her moveset is identical to Marth; a melee-style clone. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  02:19, 17 July 2014 (EDT)

Special Move Animations
The page states that Lucina's special moves all share animations with Marth's; however, upon comparison, I noticed that what seems to be Lucina's Counter has her strike the pose in her official artwork, so that the hilt of the Falchion is basically in front of her face. Marth's Counter has him hold the hilt is almost so that it is behind his head, and the sword is tilted much less steeply. Also, although the entirety of Marth's Dancing Blade has yet to be revealed, Lucina has a backwards stab in her version that Marth did not in Brawl. If anything, because we haven't seen all of Marth's Dancing Blade, we shouldn't say that Lucina's version has the same animation. ScizorSteelix (talk) 00:06, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Of course, we can't be sure that the pose I was referring to was actually "Counter". ScizorSteelix (talk) 00:22, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Kirby Hat
I found a Magazine scan that showed Kirby's hat of Lucina is her Marth Mask. Where would this information go?Guybrush20X6 (talk) 15:55, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Could you show us the image? For now, I think it belongs on the Kirby_(SSB4) page, but eventually it would go on the Copy_Ability_(SSB4) page. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  15:59, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

[] Guybrush20X6 (talk) 16:08, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Yeah, feel free to cut it out and put it on the Kirby page. Also, don't post images on talk pages, just link them instead. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  16:16, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Sorry, not used to the link system Guybrush20X6 (talk) 16:29, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Where are you finding these Famitsu scans? Miles ( talk)   16:31, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Someone was posting them on Know your Meme. If only I could actually read them. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 17:01, 16 July 2014 (EDT)
 * No worries, I'm the unofficial Official Resident Otaku of Smash Wiki -3-; I can read some of it. I've already updated the wiki with some of the info. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  17:07, 16 July 2014 (EDT)

Move names
Was it ever confirmed (preferably by Sakurai/Nintendo) that her moves share names too? Just because she's a moveset clone doesn't make that true- Pichu uses Agility but Pikachu uses Quick Attack, and all of Roy's moves had different names. ...a new Nuttais approaching... 11:04, 21 July 2014 (EDT)
 * This scan from Famitsu shows the names. Even as someone who can't read Japanese, it's simple enough to compare to the Japanese names of Marth's moves and see that they match. Miles ( talk)   11:41, 21 July 2014 (EDT)
 * Ah, I see. Thanks. ...a new Nutta[[File:Nutta's Mallo sig.png]]is approaching... 07:30, 23 July 2014 (EDT)

Jigglypuff's Gender?
I'm relatively certain that prior games have referred to Jigglypuff as female, and Jigglypuff is always an unlockable character, so the last trivia bit about being the only unlockable female character is untrue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.85.191 (talk • contribs) 16:58, 23 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Nope, Jiggles is gender neutral. ...a new Nutta[[File:Nutta's Mallo sig.png]]is approaching... 17:00, 23 September 2014 (EDT)
 * I generally consider Jigglypuff to be a female. It's just my opinion, but a majority of the Smash community believes it too. Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 17:21, 23 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Unless it is officially stated, all Pokemon can technically be either, as per the games. Other exceptions include a Pokemon that can only have one gender, or is genderless.  --HavocReaper 48  18:58, 23 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Think about it this way: every Pokémon (excluding Jigglypuff) is voiced by a male in English. For example, Lucario is voiced by Bill Rodgers in Brawl and Sean Schemmel in SSB4.


 * If VA's aren't enough, there's gender differences. Yes, no Pokémon except Pikachu has this distinction, but female Pikachu have a dent in their tail. Something Pikachu in Smash doesn't. This implies that the Pikachu in Smash is a male.


 * Sure, this is speculation as a whole. But, then again, Sheik is (apparently) a male in the Zelda series, but a female in Smash. So who knows. Aidan the Intermediate Gamer (talk) 19:23, 23 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Off-topic, Sheik was confirmed Female by Nintendo. The persona known as Sheik is referred to as male, due to the fact that's the gender Zelda was disguising herself as. Sheik is still Zelda in disguise, who is female. On-topic, we have a ton of discussions on this already, you may choose to refer to the Pokemon with whatever gender you want, but you may not do so in main-space articles, as Nintendo has kept them all gender neutral in Smash. (With the exception of a minor slip-up on Lucario's trophy in Brawl) Laikue (talk|contribs) 19:39, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Lucina's Custom Move names
The "Custom Moves" section has names that are not accurate to the NTSC-U English version of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. Since the USA version of Sm4sh U is the most dominent platform, I feel that its localization should be respected above other versions of the game.

Therefore, "Assault Dash" should be changed "Dashing Assault"; "Easy Combination" should be "Effortless Blade".

Of course, the alternate names (are they from the European version, or something) SHOULD be retained as information on the page, perhaps in the "trivia" section, or in a distinct "localization" section, with appropriate footnotes next to the American names.

If no one objects, I'll make the changes ASAP. Brightcoat (talk) 11:12, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 * The wiki used a lot of Japanese names for the move names before the game came out. That said, a lot of customizable moves on certain pages have inaccurate names. By changing it to be accurate, you're doing us all a huge favor. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]] BlueStreak  Speeds By  11:28, 15 December 2014 (EST)


 * I'd love to fix them all up (I have them ALL unlocked), but many of the pages in question are protected from editing. How should I go about actually affecting the corrections in question? I'm new here, obviously. Brightcoat (talk) 11:40, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 * You have to be autoconfirmed to do that. Give it a while, and you should be good. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]] BlueStreak  Speeds By  11:58, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 * Ah, good. I'm not sure how to determine if a page is semi-protected or fully-protected, but once I get autoconfirmed I'll do a sweep of the SSB4 character pages and fix any discrepancies. Relatedly, can you tell me how to add some sort of mouse-over icon (like one of those little cross things) that I can put next to the changed movenames, so that when the symbol gets hovered on, it can display the alternate name? Brightcoat (talk) 12:06, 15 December 2014 (EST)
 * I'm not the person to ask about that. You might want to try these guys on that topic. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]] BlueStreak  Speeds By  13:18, 15 December 2014 (EST)

Alternate Colors
Would it be worth noting in her Trivia that Lucina's alternate colors appear to be based on the color schemes of other Awakening females? Specifically (from left to right): Nowi, Cherche, Cordelia, Tiki, Lissa, Tharja, and Sumia. 75.168.6.209 12:24, 20 July 2015 (EDT)

Note on the Trivia itself, which can be seen on the edit page: <--Do not add trivia regarding Lucina's alternate colors. It is already covered on the Alternate Costumes page.--> Archrelico (talk) 14:02, 20 July 2015 (EDT)

Since there's an impendent edit war...
108.14.98.64, or should I say Chliu... Let me ask you real quick. How are down smash and Shield Breaker better than Marth's, when his versions can KO 40% earlier when tipped? How do Lucina's forward air and back air combo better when Marth's based aerials have lower knockback? How is Lucina's jab better when it fails to connect 30% of the time when Marth's almost always does AND gets the tip with the second hit? How does Lucina have an easier time KOing when there are high-level players such as who send their opponents to oblivion at 50% with a tipper?

Note that I am not being aggressive about this, I just want to discuss it. Although I'm only doing it because otherwise I'd be violating this... If you have paid attention to my last edit summaries, you would have seen I am not only a dedicated Lucina main, I've sadly watched her fail miserably as well. So before undoing your edit yet again, I will wait as much as you need to respond. Drill Blaster Mark 2  (talk)  10:55, 12 November 2015 (EST)

Lucina's down smash is better simply because marth's rarely tippers, her shield breaker will also on average do more damage and knock back. One question I have you is that if you think Lucina is that bad, why don't you main Marth. I am currently trying to cater to both of our needs by mentioning her disadvantages as well. The article skimmed over her strengths. Her fair and bair string into themselves better because marth's tippers does too much knock back and untippered Not enough. I never said she killed earlier I said that she has an easier time killing at higher percents, because untippered Marth won't kill most mid weights off the side of the stage at 90% with an untippered f smash. This update happened a while ago, but their jabs connect better, and pretty much always at the base of the blade, which makes lucina's better. Just because someone hasn't had a lot of tourney rep doesn't make her trash and it certainly doesn't make her worse than Marth. Chliu (talk) 08:01, 13 November 2015 (EST)
 * Marth's based forward aerial and back aerial deal too little knockback to combo effectively? I've honestly never encountered it. Now for the rest... Saying that down smash is better because it's easier to tipper is like throwing Marth's variant out of the window. Shield Breaker dealing 1% less is a nuisance at best. Its knockback is indeed lacking when based (30/90 compared to 40/100) but you'll never see a high-level player getting hit by it when it has 22 frames of startup. KOing is easier for her at high percents, definitely, that was a complete misunderstanding of mine. Marth's jab tends to be tippered if the first hit is a bit further, and since it's still weaker, it's not hindered as much by rage or SDI. Lastly, the reason I main Lucina over Marth is because I'm bad at spacing. And she's my favourite female character by a large margin. As for tournament representation, I've never seen Lucina win one set, whereas AirVault placed 7th one time using only Marth.


 * One last thing: I am going to reword your edit. But. I won't change its meaning, and I won't remove it again. Also, your new page is now a forum page. I, for one, still believe this is a very important matter. Drill Blaster Mark 2   (talk)  09:43, 13 November 2015 (EST)

Thank you for the apology,Ii would like to apologize as well. Lucina is my 2nd best character and seeing Marth bias (who I sometimes use) didn't make me happy. The reason I said her down smash was better is because Marth's rarely tippers. Trust me, it will almost never tipper. Shield Breaker, while Lucina's may not seem better, is slightly better not only due to increased damage and greater knockback, but also due to Marth's not tipping often. Shield Breaker IMO is one of their best moves, and it is landable, especially with b-reverses and with proper use. Thanks for not revising it, I tried to make it show she was around the same as Marth, which I believe. In toruneys, I have seen Lucina win sets, and it's not like Marth got 1st in anything either. I honestly think the Marth bias comes from the butthurt Melee fans who are angry that he was nerfed. I honestly think they need a buff (range, grab combo, aerial strings, better dair) and that Lucina should not be treated as "just a clone," a "beginner Marth for noobs," or "a worse version of Marth." Thank You Chliu (talk) 19:05, 13 November 2015 (EST)
 * You don't have to apologise, really. About down smash, I don't think anyone uses it, up smash is far better. Shield Breaker deals 25 shield damage, so evenif it doesn't KO, it still forces the opponent to stay away. "Butthurt Melee fans"... That about sums it up. Now they need lots of buffs, but we'll have to wait for now. Anyway, since this discussion is technically over, if you'd like any help, you can ask me anything. Unless I don't know, in which case go for more experienced users. For example. Drill Blaster Mark 2   (talk)  06:53, 14 November 2015 (EST)

Differences from Marth looking good, nearly no bias, (darthrai edited so there was). Chliu (talk) 08:14, 15 November 2015 (EST)
 * We're making progress. Again, thanks for the help. Drill Blaster Mark 2   (talk)  08:17, 15 November 2015 (EST)

Personal de-clone concepts
I'm not sure if this is the place to discuss it here, but it's been on my mind for a while since there's A LOT of people who seem to just hate the fact that Sakurai (save for Dr. Mario possibly) threw in clones of characters moveset wise once again.

Here's the list of attacks that will be different for my personal version of Lucina in Smash, with the Japanese names included JPN source wise:


 * Forward tilt:, Swing Edge
 * Up tilt:, Anti Air Swing
 * Neutral aerial:, Double Swing
 * Down aerial:, Wide Moon
 * Back aerial:, Straight Swing
 * Neutral aerial:, Double Swing
 * Down aerial:, Wide Moon
 * Back aerial:, Straight Swing
 * Down aerial:, Wide Moon
 * Back aerial:, Straight Swing
 * Back aerial:, Straight Swing

Everything else stays the same (I might get flamed for posting something as stupid as this on this kind of talk page so let me know if I need to move this dumb post). --SneaselSawashiro (talk) 23:21, 28 July 2016 (EDT)
 * Yeah this belongs in a userpage, not on a talk page. This is talk abuse  Serpent SKSig.png  King  23:23, 28 July 2016 (EDT)

Lucina's Japanese voice
In the Japanese version of the game, Lucina might yell out... something if KO'd (about 6 seconds in). Does anyone know exactly what she's saying? Laniv (talk) 21:19, 29 September 2016 (EDT)