Talk:Koopalings

Let me explain
While there isn't any evidence that this is true, there are signs pointing towards it, such as the fact that the Koopalings have more differences than Bowser Jr. than Lucina does to Marth or Dark Pit does to Pit. Sure the Clown Car is the true fighter, but they all have specific sizes and strengths that should make them different from Bowser Jr. For example, Morton is big and strong, and Lemmy is small and weaker, see the differences? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nintenzilla (talk • contribs) 09:51, 27 March 2015 (EDT)
 * Yes, but those differences were put aside for Smash. Take a look at this. Morton and Iggy share a similar size, despite not doing so in any other Mario game (excluding SMB3). Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 09:53, 27 March 2015 (EDT)
 * If "there isn't any evidence", that's 100% an automatic no. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brass 09:55, 27 March 2015 (EDT)
 * As characters, that's kind of irrational, because they're all different characters as much as Lucina and Dark Pit. As Smash fighters, they're identical to Bowser Jr. 216.130.144.24 14:27, 27 March 2015 (EDT)

Own article?
I think that the Koopalings all deserve their own individual articles or they should be moved into Bowser Jr.'s article! Nintenzilla (talk) 09:39, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
 * Neutral. The page is a bit long as is, but they're more of a group than seven individual characters. Nyargle blargle  (Talk) 13:04, 5 May 2015 (EDT)
 * Support The more the merrier. SeanWheeler (talk) 12:51, 24 June 2015 (EDT)
 * Support If we can have pages for every single Phantom Thief because they appear in Joker's FS for a split second, then I think we can have articles for 7 unique characters.MrStrawberries (talk) 14:43, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

Is this still being considered in any form? &#32;Wolff (talk) 19:52, February 13, 2021 (EST)
 * I'm guessing not. This conversation is 6 years old for one, and Strawberries' comment above shouldn't have even been posted because of that. Black Vulpine  of the 🦊Furry Nation🐺.  Furries make the internets go! :3  20:10, February 13, 2021 (EST)

birth order
Can we noted the birth order of Koopalings cuz only say "evryone think the birth order is used be SMB3 boss order and that not true" can u creat a section for that. 93.23.13.164 02:09, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
 * It doesn't really have anything to do with their inclusion in Smash. If people care about it, they can go to the Mario Wiki's page about it. --CanvasK (talk) 04:51, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
 * oh ok but it’s just because the ring of box of smash 4 say Larry is the youngest 93.22.150.123 07:15, September 28, 2021 (EDT)

Koopa kid
(78.225.38.5 10:36, October 28, 2021 (EDT)) If they also named Koopa kid does they are child cuz in old time they really looks like short and childhish but today the only to looks like child are Larry, Wendy, and Lemmy But they are still mature, SO for me they are all teenager today and I not see anywhere texted also named Koopa Kid that seems good for this page.

Larry, the leader
Super smash bros 4 was coming on September 2013 on 3DS in Japan and in the description of his trophy they stated Larry is the leader and not the youngest, the only version who say Larry is the youngest is the north USA version (who is CLEARLY back after) 78.225.38.5 11:53, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * That wasn't clear that is what you meant by your summaries. However, that doesn't mean him being the youngest should be removed. I'm re-adding some of what you added. Leaving out Wendy's rivalry because I'm not sure that matters in that section. --CanvasK (talk) 12:10, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * Ludwig was never stated like the leader, the north American is not the original version, and the original japanese 3ds version was stated larry is the leader not the yougest 78.225.38.5 12:18, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * From the MarioWiki "Bowser's oldest Koopaling and second in command, he's a real monster!" - Nintendo Power Strategy Guide for Super Mario Bros. 3, page 9. This makes him higher rank than the others, and as such he claims the title of "leader". Regarding this revert, I put information in that you originally put, but with proper wiki format and syntax and wording straight from the trophy descriptions. The titles listed are straight from the Boxing Ring screen, it is not "fake information". Additionally, he is called the "youngest" more often than as the "leader", so that is given more priority. Kamek is seen in more situations being high in command than Ludwig, making the point about Ludwig being the leader an invalidated plot point and as such the line should stay. It doesn't matter what "the original" says because, 1) Smash 4 was designed with a more international focus than prior games, making "original" less meaningful; 2) we can still list both. --CanvasK (talk) 12:29, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * Ludwig was in second in command in old time, Kamek was back before Ludwig in Marios' story, Larry is the leader and say *Larry is the youngest* it’s specially an idea of Nintendo of north USA, and Ludwig just consider himself like the leader and the other Koopalings was never voted for that 78.225.38.5 12:46, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * Ludwig claims to be a leader in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, which was released in 2015, a year after Smash 4. Larry is called the youngest in the NTSC Wii U trophy, NTSC Wii U Boxing Ring, NTSC and PAL Ultimate Boxing Ring; he is called the leader in the NTSC 3DS trophy, PAL 3DS and Wii U trophy, and PAL Wii U Boxing Ring. 4 for youngest, 4 for leader; it is even. This still doesn't change that we can list both, just like we list Ludwig being the oldest and being a self-proclaimed leader. --CanvasK (talk) 13:06, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * Same vote numbers ? So yes, i'm angree 78.225.38.5 13:25, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * Does that mean you agree that both should be listed? Because that is what my edit was. --CanvasK (talk) 13:29, January 16, 2022 (EST)
 * yes but only whit the information of Ludwig who consider himself like the leader (whit a however) 78.225.38.5 13:38, January 16, 2022 (EST)

Description
It that possible to put Japanese or German version of Koopalings trophy ? Beaucaus that was the 2 first country weres SSB4 for 3DS was releas... 78.225.38.5 13:51, March 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * This is an English wiki, we only include English descriptions in most cases. --CanvasK (talk) 13:52, March 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * We can very well translate them, right ? 78.225.38.5 13:56, March 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * We only do translations for names of characters, stages, attacks, items, etc. because those are important and help with communication between players of different languages. Trophy descriptions are not important and it wouldn't make sense to do it only for Koopalings either. --CanvasK (talk) 13:59, March 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * i don't mean only for the Koopalings, but it's still pity 78.225.38.5 14:03, March 20, 2022 (EDT)
 * You only mentioned Koopalings. If we do German and Japanese, then we should also do French, Korean, Chinese, etc. so there is no favorites. There are 290 trophies in Melee, 544 trophies in Brawl, and 743 trophies in Smash 4 (Wii U); that is 1577 trophies and no one is going to put in that effort. --CanvasK (talk) 14:11, March 20, 2022 (EDT)

Origin image
Anyone else in agreement to replace their current origin image with ? It's far closer to their depiction in Smash; with them riding small, color-coded Clown Cars...but it also has a hologram effect that might not be desirable. Still, considering we had Bowser Jr. in the Mario & Luigi art style instead of a render for a while, and still have Link's Hero of the Wild outfit illustrated by very rough-looking concept art, it's something to consider. ShootingStar7X (talk) 00:26, May 4, 2022 (EDT)
 * how would you describe the sense of the placement of the Koopalings in this image? ZekingoX (talk) 02:22, June 17, 2022 (EDT)
 * What exactly do you mean? Apart from the aforementioned hologram effect, it looks fine to me. None of them are significantly obscuring each other. ShootingStar7X (talk) 17:59, June 17, 2022 (EDT)
 * [[Media:Koopalings-NSMB2.png|Official art]] of the Koopalings from '.'From left to right: Lemmy, Wendy, Larry, Morton, Roy, Iggy, and Ludwig ZekingoX (talk) 02:01, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
 * That does not matter in whether the image should be replaced or not. --CanvasK (talk) 06:44, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
 * well, I suggest that their artwork in NSMB2 is much more descriptive ZekingoX (talk) 15:01, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
 * I would say my image suggestion goes: Larry, Roy, Ludwig, Iggy, Morton, Lemmy, Wendy. Also, neither coins nor Lemmy's ball are part of Bowser Jr.'s moveset in Smash; a point against the NSMB2 image. ShootingStar7X (talk) 18:47, June 21, 2022 (EDT)
 * I think, I’m angree… ZekingoX (talk) 03:19, June 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * I think Shootingstar7x is right, the mario kart live artwork fits better, especially since they're using their personal clown karts instead of the big one. The only issue was figuring out what order to list them since some are in front of each other, but Shootingstar solved that. I'm not sure what Zekingo is angry about. 68.4.176.97 03:56, June 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * so already I'm not at all angry about it, and besides I've never been disangree whit it ZekingoX (talk) 07:17, June 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Oh, you're saying you agree with ShootingStar's suggestion? My bad, you saying "angree" instead of "agree" threw me off. I understand if english isn't your first language and you thought "agree" was spelled with an n. I'm gonna fix your spelling mistakes above if that's alright. 68.4.176.97 17:45, June 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Don't edit someone else's posts; TALK. --CanvasK (talk) 18:06, June 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * I really wish there was a version of this artwork without the "hologram" effect, because that's the one thing holding it back. Since the current NSMB2 artwork is clearer and better quality, I'd prefer to keep that in the infobox for now. However, I wouldn't be opposed to having the MKLHC artwork being an additional image for the article body or gallery, or even on the Koopa Clown Car article, just to demonstrate how the Mario series has been retroactively influenced by the Koopalings' appearance in Smash. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:12, June 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * I find that the image of MK live is of better quality… in addition to the fact that it is better to see the Koopalings in their own Clown car rather than to see them in a single clown car (which can be better written their appearance in SSB4 and SSBU) ZekingoX (talk) 03:09, June 24, 2022 (EDT)

Images
The work used for Wendy, Lemmy and Roy don't quite match them, cuz… Wendy doesn't fight with her ice skates all the time, Lemmy doesn't always throw bombs to kill Mario, and Roy doesn't always use his Bill Blaster… ZekingoX (talk) 05:51, June 29, 2022 (EDT)
 * The images do not need to strictly represent how they are in Smash, sometimes how they are in their own games is preferred. --CanvasK (talk) 06:45, June 29, 2022 (EDT)
 * I find that a detailed description would be much better than mentioning only the game in which it is represented (which is what I wanted to do at the beginning) ZekingoX (talk) 06:55, June 29, 2022 (EDT)
 * That is not necessary. It has no importance to Smash so it does not need to be mentioned. In this scenario, the game the artwork/render came from is the most that needs to be there. --CanvasK (talk) 07:00, June 29, 2022 (EDT)

Koopalings order
that you choose a BJR skin, by pressing R the order of the Koopalings starting from the right is that of SMB3 but inverting Morton N Roy… this can very well reference the order in which the Koopalings are beaten in NSMBWII (due to Roy being beaten before Morton) so I don't see why CanvasK disagree ZekingoX (talk) 03:44, August 2, 2022 (EDT)
 * I made a list of the order of the Koopalings in each game prior to Smash and can be seen here (Koopalings that have the same position as in Smash are highlighted). First, in NSMBWii Lemmy is 3rd and moves everyone over, this makes Morton 6th and not 5th, in SMB3 the swap is between 2nd and 5th making NSMBWii not a true swap of Roy and Morton. Second, the order has been inconsistent since the beginning with the closest match being SMB3, if we wanted to mention any that possibly match it would get long and messy. Third, saying something "might be" a reference bumps into our policy of no speculation. Fourth, I think the trivia point is interesting enough without trying to find an explanation for it. --CanvasK (talk) 06:57, August 2, 2022 (EDT)
 * Obviously you still don't understand what I meant... We don't care about Lemmy in this story, and then the fact that Roy is the second skin from the right and that Morton is the third would be closer to NSMBWII in terms of references ZekingoX (talk) 03:33, August 14, 2022 (EDT)
 * Obviously you didn't read the rest of my comment where Lemmy isn't mentioned. And to your point, if Lemmy doesn't matter what about Wendy? Or Iggy or Larry or Ludwig? Let's remove everyone except Roy and Morton. Now we can have them next to each other. In Smash, NSMBWii, and NSMB2 we have Roy+Morton and in the other games it is Morton+Roy, which is the proper swap? In NSMB2 we have Roy separated by 2 before Morton just like in Smash, why is this not the one to mention when NSMBWii has Roy separated by 3 before Morton? The point is: there is too much inconsistency and conditions to make your addition reasonable. --CanvasK (talk) 06:59, August 16, 2022 (EDT)
 * the rest of the Koopalings are placed as in SMB3, while the fact that Morton and Roy are reversed would be closer to NSMBWII and it is this game that created this fact… than in SMB3 Morton fights in the desert and Roy in the clouds and in NSMBWII it's the other way around, that's why Roy and Morton's order in Smash probably refers to it ZekingoX (talk) 11:37, August 21, 2022 (EDT)
 * In SMB3 Morton was in Sky Land where there are several cloud stages and Roy was in Desert Land with a lot of... desert. In NSMBWii Morton is in Rock World which is a mountain which has several cave levels and Roy is in Desert World with deserts; the one in the cloud stage is Ludwig in Cloud World. Yet again the worlds aren't very consistent nor are the Koopalings within them consistent. --CanvasK (talk) 16:07, August 21, 2022 (EDT)
 * No in SMB3 Morton is in desert land and Roy is in sky land, anyway all we need to know is that are reversed ZekingoX (talk) 02:16, August 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * That was my mistake, I meant to list that order. But they aren't reversed because Morton/Roy goes from Desert/Sky to Mountain/Desert. There is a world after Morton that is Sky but has Ludwig, therefore their environments aren't reversed. --CanvasK (talk) 06:38, August 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * if you bother to pay so much attention to even one of my comments (minor or not) the problem will never be solved ZekingoX (talk) 06:43, August 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * You claim order is swapped:
 * In SMB3 Morton is 2nd and Roy is 5th.
 * In NSMBWii Roy is 2nd and Morton is 6th. Iggy is 5th.
 * You claim worlds are swapped:
 * In SMB3 Morton is in a desert and Roy is in the sky.
 * In NSMBWii Roy is in a desert and Morton is on a mountain. Ludwig is in the sky. A mountain is not the sky.
 * --CanvasK (talk) 07:05, August 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * it's time to think about it all ZekingoX (talk) 04:24, August 25, 2022 (EDT)
 * That is not helpful to this discussion. I've looked at every game Koopalings appear in, I've looked at their order, I've looked at their Worlds, and I've shown that what you said is either a stretch or false. It has been two weeks. Unless you have something new and useful to say, discussion is over. --CanvasK (talk) 19:41, August 25, 2022 (EDT)
 * since you still don't have the will to understand, i think it will be useless to argue with you... in the future, please don't undo some changes just because you don't understand it ZekingoX (talk) 03:30, August 26, 2022 (EDT)
 * This is not how you conduct yourself here, and you already been blocked before for edit warring, while your positive contributions have been nonexistent. You do not own this article, and you are not above our policies, try keeping this silly edit war up when your current block is over and you will get blocked for much longer. Omega   Tyrant  [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 04:32, August 26, 2022 (EDT)