Talk:Mewtwo (SSB4)/Archive 1

Design
Should we note that Mewtwo keeps its more angular eyes and "horn-less" chestplate from its design in Pokémon: The First Movie? These are features that most game sprites/models of Mewtwo don't have, and even Mewtwo in Melee had the "horn" in its chestplate.Darthrai (talk) 00:53, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Comparing against its XY model, I'm not really seeing the distinction you're making. It looks like standard Gen 6 Mewtwo to me. Miles ( talk)   00:58, 25 October 2014 (EDT)
 * That's a really tiny image; the XY model's rounder eyes are more obvious in Pokémon-Amie videos and the like. Mewtwo's SSB4 model closely resembles the D-Arts Mewtwo action figure (partly based on the movie), apart from the chestplate.Darthrai (talk) 15:33, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Can you provide a better reference image to demonstrate your point? Miles ( talk)   17:38, 26 October 2014 (EDT)
 * It isn't the best quality, but it has a weird thing in between Mewtwo's pectorals. (talk) PikaSamusSig.png 19:04, 28 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Here's a better one. I made it to show that we probably wouldn't be getting the 16th movie's Mewtwo character, and the eye differences should be pretty clear from the picture. Darthrai (talk) 14:53, 30 October 2014 (EDT)

Where Mewtwo should be
If Mewtwo is considered DLC in this game, then there should be a section called "DLC challengers"? The Smash Brotha (talk) 07:13, 29 October 2014 (EDT)
 * I'm not sure what you mean by section; do you mean category? If yes, I'd say wait until more DLC playable fighters are confirmed. Return of Air Conditioner AC.png Come to Daddy... 07:17, 29 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Speaking about DLC fighters (though not a place for speculation) I don't think it's just Mewtwo in the works right now, I think more fighters will come to this game. Like maybe fighters that were cut and don't have trophies or Assist Trophies from Brawl that didn't appear or made it in the trophies. The Smash Brotha (talk) 12:44, 29 October 2014 (EDT)
 * If there are any other DLC characters we might want to add something to the character table to separate them. But if Mewtwo is unique, I think it's kinda pointless. ---Previously unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 12:56, 29 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Are you talking about the SSB4 Character Table Template? I think it's the fine the way it is. We don't have separate sections for starters & unlockables, so I definitely don't think we need one for DLC characters right, especially since Mewtwo is a veteran (and makes the table look so neat now). Master Zach (talk) 08:57, 30 October 2014 (EDT)
 * I believe that if we get a high number of DLC characters (i.e. 7-9 or more, 6 could do without) they should get their own section, as it stands now, Mewtwo is the only one we know about, thusly the only one who fits this category, so he's probably not going to get his own little section for now. Laikue (talk|contribs) 10:26, 30 October 2014 (EDT)
 * What about using italics for DLC characters instead of "Mewtwo (future DLC)"? The Smash Brotha (talk) 09:32, 31 October 2014 (EDT)
 * I think for right now, with Mewtwo being unique, it doesn't matter, and we should keep it as it is. But I think that if they add any more (even one, I think) they should be separated somehow. ---Previously unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 12:31, 31 October 2014 (EDT)

I've been waiting for you guys to make the DLC section ever since Mewtwo was announced. Will you still put one in? The Smash Brotha (talk) 12:03, 15 June 2015 (EDT)

Trivia
Apparently, the Trivia section of this page says "Mewtwo is the first downloadable character of Super Smash Bros. 4.". Is this really necessary? Anyone with even a small knowledge of the Super Smash Bros. series would be aware of this already, so I wouldn't think this deserves the spot in the Trivia section. SmashBros (talk) 16:15, 29 October 2014 (EDT)
 * Should we add that Mewtwo' s hand (or an unwebbed greninja hand) was shown in the greninja trailer? 1blitzer1 (talk) 23:09, 3 November 2014 (EST)
 * Short answer: no. It's not notable enough, nor is it Mewtwo's. Rtzxy  Reflect.jpg  ''Reflect!!!  23:10, 3 November 2014 (EST)
 * @OP: Yeah, I would just remove that immediately.  Qw er ty (t al k)  23:14, 3 November 2014 (EST)
 * No, it's not his, but should we put that it looked like mewtwo' s hand, but wasn't? Or should we put the whole 'non-webbed band's thing in greninja' s trivia? 1blitzer1 (talk) 19:38, 4 November 2014 (EST)

One of Mewtwo's alternate skins closely resembles XD001, or Shadow Lugia from Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness.

Changes From Melee
We should put that the design is now more like mainstream pokemon games than it was in melee. rycbar123 (talk) 20:12, 4 November 2014 (EST)
 * I think we should wait until some of his moveset is confirmed before we make a section or anything, but you can put that in the body, if you can fit it in. I think. &#32;Littlesquirtle, an average user who doesn&#39;t like his signature. (talk) 20:19, 4 November 2014 (EST)
 * Well, there's already a changes from melee section, so why not put it there? rycbar123 (talk) 23:21, 4 November 2014 (EST)
 * This is a purely aesthetic change, so it goes in the introduction.  Qw er ty (t al k)  00:09, 5 November 2014 (EST)

Limited Time?
Will Mewtwo be available for a limited time only? I'm worried about that.  The Master Hand — It's time.  10:38, 28 November 2014 (EST)
 * Through Club Nintendo. Yes. Through purchase? We don't know. Laikue (talk | contribs) 10:59, 28 November 2014 (EST)
 * Also this (I'm pretty sure) goes against TALK. I might be wrong though. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 15:34, 1 December 2014 (EST)

Please read the bottom of the club nintendo page. This information may prove to be... useful... 1blitzer1  (talk)  00:15, 17 December 2014 (EST)
 * I mentioned that in the section below, and it may be that the Mewtwo code will only be released during the time period; the code itself would be valid at any other time after Mewtwo's release (if that makes any sense). [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]] BlueStreak  Speeds By  08:44, 17 December 2014 (EST)

Mewtwo DLC Release Date
Club Nintendo states here that "Mewtwo DLC offer available from 11/20/2014 9:00pm PT to 3/31/2015 11:59pm PT. Limit 1 per customer." Would that imply that Mewtwo is coming out on April 1st? Just a thought. Aidan  the Smasher  14:10, 3 December 2014 (EST)
 * I don't think it implies anything - that's just the date range for which the offer is valid. They could potentially release Mewtwo during or after the offer period. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brazen 14:13, 3 December 2014 (EST)

It's been confirmed that all codes from Club Nintendo will expire on July 31st, 2015. Do you think this counts as confirmation that the code will be released before July 31st, 2015? I would think it would be released before it expires, lol. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 22:11, 20 January 2015 (EST)
 * I think that's a given. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]] BlueStreak  Speeds By  22:12, 20 January 2015 (EST)

Status via leak
I notice that the infamous roster leak is noted on other characters pages about how they were unveiled, shouldn't the same be said of mewtwo? In that leak mewtwo was listed with a ? next to him, indicating that the leaker was unsure of his inclusion, despite having access to the completed game. This matches up with the info that we have now that mewtwo was intended to be in the game but had to be excluded and finished later to get the game out. I can provide sources for all of this info, if needed. 71.75.136.51 03:48, 23 January 2015 (EST)
 * We do not treat textual leaks as factual; the only ESRB leak material we accepted was as a result of the Izat True videos, as they satisfied the prerequisites of NEWGAME. Text can be easily added/removed from a supposed leaker's information, whereas videos are much harder to convincingly change from the real deal. With this in mind, Mewtwo as a DLC character has no relation to the ESRB leak and we shouldn't cover it as such. Miles ( talk)   06:20, 23 January 2015 (EST)
 * That makes sense I guess, though the image I am talking about was the first image accompanying the leaked roster screenshots, which we now know were legitimate, and there is an archive of it being posted on the moe archive of 4chan's /v/ board, so worrying about it being retroactively edited are null. In any case, if that's the policy, then that's that, I don't feel strongly enough about it to debate it further.
 * Thank you for the quick reply, though. 71.75.136.51 16:54, 23 January 2015 (EST)
 * ...that makes no sense, actually... We decided that the ESRB Leak in its entirety was real, and that includes all of the text and pictures. We should at least mention the ? over his face. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 17:20, 23 January 2015 (EST)
 * As I recall, there was information floating around regarding the text being a "trap" of sorts, where the original individual(s) with access to the ESRB review video included it to determine who leaked information. As a result, we only initially accepted the videos, and after the fact the associated imgur dump. The text of the 4chan leak is not to be treated as part of the ESRB leak as a whole. Miles ( talk)   17:38, 23 January 2015 (EST)
 * I think there's some misscomuncation going on. I was talking about this image: http://smashboards.com/data/news/writer/venus/leak2.png which was released before the image leaks of the roster screen. As we can see, it uses the same icons as those leaks and the actual game for shulk, dark pit, wario, Jigglypuff, Falco, Bowser Junior, Duck hunt, ROB, Ness, Ganondorf, and Dr. mario, which shows that this was a legimate source. Anyways, I will find the information that proves that the image as it was shown was posted prior to the main roster leak images, if you guys still don't want to note it in the article then that's fine. 71.75.136.51 17:50, 23 January 2015 (EST)

Gender pronouns
The gallery and trivia sections refer to Mewtwo as male, but canonically Mewtwo is a genderless Pokémon. Please use "it" or other wording when referring to Mewtwo. This also applies to the other Pokémon: without official confirmation that Pikachu/Charizard/etc. are a certain gender, we should refer to them gender-neutrally. Hylianola (talk) 23:46, 28 January 2015 (EST)
 * This is indeed our standard, it just slips through in some places. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Resolute 23:49, 28 January 2015 (EST)

Told you and im back after 6 months about :)--The Reshiram (talk) 18:33, 13 February 2015 (EST)
 * 1. Make a new section next time. 2. This is inappropriate talk page usage. 3. Literally tens, or even hundreds of thousands of people thought Mewtwo was gonna be playable, don't get on a high horse about it. Laikue (talk | contribs) 22:23, 13 February 2015 (EST)

Release Date
Has anyone found out when exactly Mewtwo is being released? just a quick question.  The Master Hand — It's time.  16:54, 29 March 2015 (EDT)
 * As the page says, the official word right now is just "pretty soon". I'm sure when a specific date is announced, it will be quickly added to the article (and the front page for that matter). Zyrac (talk) 18:19, 29 March 2015 (EDT)

Found some Info!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsqzT7Gilk

The trailer says everything! :D May I post it on the webpage?

DLC price
Should we add the price for the DLC to this article? If so, where? —Fenhl 07:41, 2 April 2015 (EDT)

Does his Final Smash
Have a name? (Addsig here. ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.60.218.64 (talk • contribs) 10:47, April 5, 2015 (CDT)
 * Judging by how its (yes, Mewtwo is an "it" as it is genderless) Final Smash's page has a generic name, the move has no name yet. Once a name's confirmed, the page will be moved accordingly. Berrenta (talk) 12:01, 5 April 2015 (EDT)

YES! YES! IN YOUR FACE, UNIVERSE!
Finally! Mewtwo is back and ready to shine, baby! Imagine how Lucario and Greninja are gonna react, thinking they could replace Mewtwo! Now we just gotta convince Nintendo to let in Ridley and Shadow the Hedgehog........
 * This is inappropriate Talk Page content. Read TALK. Laikue (talk | contribs) 00:28, 7 April 2015 (EDT)

Mewtwo's Tail
Look closely at its Melee artwork next to its SSB4 artwork. It might be just me, but I see significant increase in tail length. Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura  09:50, 8 April 2015 (EDT)

New Pictures of Mewtwo
I found a ton of new Mewtwo pictures on a spanish Smash wiki, I think we could totaly use those for this wiki too, because it shows off quite a lot on Mewtwo. Issue is, I don't wanna mess up on adding pictures to this site, and of course, I think someone else should do it instead of me. User talk: Windindi April 13th 2015

Link: http://es.smashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Mewtwo_(SSB4)

Confirmed Voice Actor?
This I happened to found on the web, but I'm not sure if this is true or not. - YR: Miriam Pultro: "Yes, I'm reprising my role as Mewtwo in Smash 4!"

I happened to talk to Miriam herself on Facebook (heck, everyone who liked her acting did too), and it seems pretty evident she'll reprise her role as Mewtwo! Who else agrees (or disagrees for that matter)? :P Hylia&#39;s Eye (talk) 17:25, 14 April 2015 (EDT)
 * How about you wait less than a day and see if it is indeed her voice? It sounded like Ichimura's grunts in the trailer. Miles ( talk)   17:27, 14 April 2015 (EDT)
 * OK, that was not was grunt; all trailers for revealing characters (except for Yoshi's and Lucas') had no voices. Unless I'm wrong, THAT was the new sound Shadow Ball makes. :| Also, I don't have a Wii U or 3DS (if that answers your question). Hylia&#39;s Eye (talk) 17:31, 14 April 2015 (EDT)
 * It's not clear enough to be sure, and my point stands: we can afford to wait a day to know for sure. We have editors receiving codes tomorrow, and there will be abundant Youtube/Twitch footage. Miles ( talk)   17:35, 14 April 2015 (EDT)
 * ......Alright, then. Tomorrow. Hylia&#39;s Eye (talk) 17:39, 14 April 2015 (EDT)

Keiji Fujiwara is the JP voice, is the voice dubbed or retained in English?Jskylinegtr (talk) 08:50, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

It's retained. SonicfanXD (talk) 11:03, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

A Few Things Following Release
Mewtwo seems to have its old voice actor from Melee, i.e. Masachika Ichimura, but with maybe a bit more reverb in them.

Mewtwo's original trophy still exists, even though Mewtwo also gains two (3DS)/three (Wii U) more trophies.

As of now, Mewtwo has no custom moves. The message in Custom Moves is "there are no custom moves".

180.150.59.7 06:56, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

I don't mean to correct you but... Keiji Fujiwara is actually Mewtwo's new voice actor, although he does sound like Ichimura a little bit. SonicfanXD (talk) 08:56, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Ehh, that's fine. I wouldn't have known. Also, Mewtwo appears in All-Star Mode now. 8 fighters in the worst round of Pokes/Sheik/Ganon/Ness/Diddy. UGH. 180.150.59.7 10:31, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

It is currently unknown if Mewtwo is dubbed in English.Jskylinegtr (talk) 09:02, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Like in Melee, Mewtwo is undubbed in the international versions. SonicfanXD (talk) 11:02, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

"Mewtwo (Alt.)" trophy
In the WIi U version, I got it the instant I booted up the game with Mewtwo installed, as opposed to having to wait for it in the shop like all other character-alt trophies. Is this typical? Toomai Glittershine The Xanthic 09:55, 15 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Doesn't happen in the 3DS version, but I guess that's probably because of different unlock conditions. Nyargle blargle (Talk) 10:02, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Normally Alt trophies in Wii U unlock after clearing Classic. I think the game staff just decided to be friendly and make the trophy availbe right away rather than rely on RNG in the Trophy Shop for it to appear (which is the only place Alt trophies in Wii U can appear). Alt trophies in 3DS are unlocked like Final Smash trophies are in Wii U. 180.150.59.7 10:31, 15 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Toomai, I can confirm your situation as normal, since the second thing that showed up on my Wii U after I downloaded Mewtwo was his alt trophy. Aidanzapunksignature.png Aidan, Master of Speed and Aura [[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 16:53, 15 April 2015 (EDT)

Final Smash Trophy
Mewtwo has a Final Smash trophy obtained when you clear All Star mode.

Icon
Shouldnt we update Mewtwos icon --Thesupernintendokid (talk) 03:23, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

Lighter or heavier?
Some people are saying that he's lighter than he was in Melee, others are saying that he's heavier. He feels slightly heavier to me, but it's been a while since I've played Melee. Can anyone provide evidence to close this discussion? -- Kirbman (talk) 20:43, 17 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Here is a link to the weight rankings thread in SmashBoards. It was determined that Mewtwo's weight is 72. LimitCrown (talk) 20:47, 17 April 2015 (EDT)

hey wait!
can't he be bought in nintendo eshop? i'm Valehd the smashbro pro!(talk)tawlk 2 teh catholic pokemon master 13:55, 19 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Starting on Wednesday he can be. As of right now, no. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 13:58, 19 April 2015 (EDT)
 * No, that's the 22nd. He releases to the public on the 28th (i.e. those who didn't register the games on Club Nintendo). Nyargle blargle (Talk) 14:13, 19 April 2015 (EDT)

Custom Mewtwo Glitch?
I feel like we need to expand on the glitch more, like detailing what each of the custom moves do. If not, let's make a glitch page for it. It's also been proven that using the method can alter the equipment and customs for any character, as long as you pick "Random". --Meester Tweester (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Melee leftovers?
I've noticed a couple of weird things about Mewtwos moveset. The first I'm sure most people have noticed, which is that Shadow Ball is held at full charge despite no longer having a charging hitbox. Secondly, Mewtwos jab doesn't transition into the later hits if the button is held when the first hit makes contact, instead requiring you to press the button repeatedly, which contrasts every other character with a multi-strike jab. Since the former made sense in Melee due to the hitbox, and the latter is how it worked for everyone in Melee, these seem like they might be leftovers. Is this worth mentioning anywhere in the article? ♡ FirstaLasto ♥ 19:40, 21 April 2015 (EDT)
 * Mewtwo's jab is the only one that can't be interrupted by having an attack collide with its hitboxes. That might be the reason that it requires you to press the attack button repeatedly unlike the others. LimitCrown (talk) 21:17, 21 April 2015 (EDT)
 * That sounds more like an accidental side-effect of it not continuing with a hold, rather than the other way around. (But I don't know all that much about the technicalities). ♡ FirstaLasto ♥  21:21, 21 April 2015 (EDT)
 * It's rather difficult to tell what could be considered a "leftover" for Mewtwo, since Sakurai has gone on record saying that Melee stuff is supposedly hard to import, implying that there was a lot more stuff done from scratch compared to characters that were in Brawl. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Awesome 23:03, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Buffed or Nerfed?
The changes section goes on at length about how he's been nerfed but from my experience playing him and on unoffical tier lists he's certainly higher than he was in Melee. Am I missing something here or is it talking purely in relation to how he was in Melee and all of it's perfect perfectness. Guybrush20X6 (talk) 19:47, 9 August 2015 (EDT)
 * Mewtwo did receive good buffs, but everyone knows it got nerfed from Melee (I added the part about its sheer lack of customs) and it is traditionally ranked in the pits at the bottom of tier lists (except for the untrustable EventHubs). Mewtwo is much worse than Melee. (Stray hits KO at 50%) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.37.25.25 (talk • contribs) 7:57 August 9 2015
 * You can sign your comments with four tildas (~s). But on-topic, Mewtwo seems to be considered more D tier than F tier, from what I can put together. Nyargle blargle  (Talk) 20:18, 9 August 2015 (EDT)
 * At first I thought Mewtwo was good, but as metagame evolves I noticed that there is some problems Mewtwo has. I saw ZeRo's video about why Mewtwo is bad and he believed that Mewtwo is a low tier character because of Mewtwo's flaws and its nerf. Its weight and hurtbox is now a big problem along with its abilities. When you try to work hard with Mewtwo and end up at KO percent or get KO'ed earlier, you now feel like Mewtwo is a higher risk low rewarded character. Luigi540 (talk) 20:45, 9 August 2015 (EDT)

I feel that his overview section may have neglected to consider the SSB4 metagame as a whole. Yes Mewtwo's combo potential has been nerfed but SSB4 is a far less combo oriented game than Melee. I also feel the overview unfairly assesses his specials, given how confusion now acts as a traditional reflector as opposed to doing practically nothing in Melee. The airdodge physics of SSB4 also benefit Mewtwo since he has the fastest airdodge in the game (I can provide the link from Smashboards in case anyone's curious). Don't get me wrong, Mewtwo is definitely in need of serious buffs but to say he is worse than he is in Melee seems inaccurate to me. 198.72.246.34 07:09, 13 August 2015 (EDT)


 * I remember that one good player (ZeRo) said that character does not pack enough able punch. In other words, Mewtwo does not have reliable combo setups that combos harder to punish player's mistake (unlike most characters), that would compensate for its worsened survivablity. Most characters have throw followups to rack up damage consistently. Mewtwo, however does not have that reliable throw followups. I think Mewtwo needs some buffs to its combo ability and get KO setups (it needs reliable down throw setups; Up air and up tilt needs to combo harder). Yes, Mewtwo airdodge is a buff to his defensive playstyle. His recovery is a buff as well, but I don't like Teleport's landing lag. Against good players, I feel that Confusion and Disable buff that leads to combos is situational unlike character's throws (has to be consistant). Confusion as a traditional reflector and a recovery is less situational than using it as combo setups. If Mewtwo receives multiple significant abilities (such as its survivablity, combo, approach, fast attacks, neutral, punishing) nerfed, then it's a nerf overall regardless of its miscellaneous buff. As a result, I haven't seen good Mewtwo players at the tournament. Luigi540 (talk) 11:18, 13 August 2015 (EDT)


 * You might have misunderstood my point. I wholeheartedly agree that Mewtwo as of now is a low tiered character and is in need of the buffs you just mentioned such as improved combo utility. What I'm trying to argue against is the claim that SSB4 Mewtwo is effectively worse than his Melee incarnation. I also watched the video from ZeRo and although he says Mewtwo is in need of buffs, nowhere does he explicitly say Mewtwo is worse in this game than in Melee. And yes lack of customs do hurt Mewtwo, but based on my knowledge from various Reddit topics many tournament rulesets are abandoning customs.


 * We can both agree that this Mewtwo has a weak tournament presence, but we can also agree that we see just as few, if not, less Mewtwos in the Melee metagame. As of now, I think the only active Melee Mewtwo main is Mew2King because to my knowledge Taj has long since retired and even then Mew2King only uses Mewtwo as a counterpick or to sandbag. In fact according to this YouTube search I made, the last time he used Mewtwo was a year ago (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mewtwo+mew2king+melee). Similarly, while Mewtwo in SSB4 also has a very few number of active dedicated players, he did make a small impact in the tournament scene when he was first released as shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0vYiEqur38


 * Also you can take this community voted tier list with what you will (https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3fmxk8/rsmashbros_monthly_voted_tier_list_results_august/), but it seems that there is some consensus that while Mewtwo is low tier in SSB4, he is somewhat competitively viable as a secondary or counterpick since he is in tier C-. Actually, comparing this tier list to the current Melee tierlist in which Mewtwo is seen as good for niche use, they are about equal in terms of competitive potential.


 * Again what I am trying to say is to claim that SSB4 Mewtwo is worse than Melee Mewtwo is inaccurate when we consider public opinion and tournament viability of both incarnations.198.72.246.34 00:54, 14 August 2015 (EDT)


 * The video and source you showed me could be worth mentioning. We'll see how it goes over time as metagame develops. So you said Mewtwo is competitively viable as a secondary or counterpick right and Mewtwo is not the worst in the game. Do you know what Mewtwo's tournament presence and viability condition should be? Very weak tournament viability or what? Luigi540 (talk) 02:18, 14 August 2015 (EDT)
 * In general consensus, did most people say that Mewtwo was buffed from Melee, or nerfed? Luigi540 (talk) 02:35, 14 August 2015 (EDT)


 * According to this community voted tier list I found where Mewtwo was once considered mid-tier (http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-700#post-19321282), C is considered niche use meaning such characters have an advantage when used for certain matchups, perhaps against slow moving characters who lack projectiles or reflectors such as Ike, Charizard or Ganondorf. It almost translates similarly to Mewtwo's placement in the Melee tier list as a B character (http://smashboards.com/threads/2013-community-tier-list.336113/) which posits Mewtwo as a good character for specific matchups. Hence it seems that Mewtwo requires very specific conditions in order to be viable in this game.


 * In regards to your last question, my personal opinion is that Mewtwo is just as good (or bad) of a character as he was in Melee, meaning he has been neither overall buffed or nerfed. 198.72.246.34 02:46, 14 August 2015 (EDT)


 * I see. Will you explain why he is nether overall buffed or nerfed? Luigi540 (talk) 02:54, 14 August 2015 (EDT)


 * I am basing my conclusion off of the current community voted tier list for SSB4 and the latest community voted tier list for Melee. The results for both polls position Mewtwo as viable for niche use. 71.95.171.74 17:26, 14 August 2015 (EDT)

Orange tint reference
Out of respect of 1RV, I will take it to here, that cannot be in any way a reference. Why do you think it'd possibly be a reference? Disaster Flare   (talk)  22:57, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Here's the thing: First off, why would Sakurai do that? Compared to the other references he did, that seems utterly outlandish and rather dumb, and another thing, why would an orange gleam be a reference to a glass tube? Yes, I saw the movie, but I think it's too outlandish to be an implied reference. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  23:00, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Well, that's the first time we see Mewtwo in both the movie and trailer. And why would he do it? I'd assume the same reason he put it with Mew. Also, AFAIK, Mewtwo's eyes don't turn orange through any normal means in Smash 4.Unowninator (talk) 23:04, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Now here's the question because I don't remember, does Mewtwo's eyes actually gleam orange at any point in the movie? Because if that's the case it can stay, otherwise I see no reason why it should. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  23:05, 12 January 2016 (EST)

You mean aside from the glass? I only remember them turning blue, but I only remember orange in the tube. Unowninator (talk) 23:10, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * Then I can't say it's noteworthy or believable enough trivia. Orange tube + orange eyes do not match up to me, and like I said, seems way too outlandish to be believable. I will still remain open for input on the matter. In the meantime, I think the trivia point should stay off the page because we have no way to believe they add up. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  23:13, 12 January 2016 (EST)

Okay. Guess I'm watching the movie again. I would like to ask a question. Can Mewtwo's eyes turn orange at any point in Smash 4? The closest I found was a Smash Ball glow, but they look yellow to me, and white pupils.

If they don't, then why do you think the trailer had orange? Unowninator (talk) 23:18, 12 January 2016 (EST)
 * 1: No idea.
 * 2: Could very easily have been a design choice on Sakurai's part. Sometimes things are just a choice of design to make it look cool, rather than being a reference. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  23:20, 12 January 2016 (EST)

^Do you have an example? What other characters have something like that? Unowninator (talk) 12:15, 13 January 2016 (EST)

I agree with DF. That really has no basis. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 13:59, 13 January 2016 (EST)

Okay, so assuming NemesisSLC still agrees, the vote is 2:2. Does anyone else have an opinion? Unowninator (talk) 14:02, 13 January 2016 (EST)
 * You know, I just had a thought. Sometimes shows, video games, etc. leave these minor Easter Eggs to be found out, but they're very small that most people won't notice them, if not for quite a while. I know The Simpsons do it. And I'm pretty convinced it is.

As for the "just to make it cool" pitch, did they do this to any of the other character trailers? I'd check myself, but I don't play most of the other games that have the trailers, like Punch Out, Megaman, Mario, & Fire Emblem. I'm still convinced that these two orange eyes are connected. Unowninator (talk) 20:35, 14 January 2016 (EST)
 * Honestly, I'm still not convinced. Sakurai doesn't do subtle hints. As for the cool thing, for one thing, Greninja's Shuriken is more vibrant in color in the trailer. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  20:41, 14 January 2016 (EST)
 * I wouldn't say Sakurai doesn't do subtle hints, but we have no reason to believe he did.
 * This is really just baseless speculation and this section has no reason to be this large... ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 20:47, 14 January 2016 (EST)

Okay, maybe it is speculation, and maybe it isn't. One question: doesn't the trivia mention things that are possibly references? Because I feel like I've seen that, but I can't remember for sure. Unowninator (talk) 21:02, 14 January 2016 (EST)
 * It does if there is any amount of evidence besides a vague color-based similarity between two completely unrelated objects. :| ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 21:08, 14 January 2016 (EST)

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I've been thinking about this a LOT, and I STILL think this was the case. I mean, they're both called "Mewtwo Strikes Back", so it makes sense to have a movie reference, of the first instance we see him (his orange eyes). His eyes can't turn orange at all in the game, and there's no stage to represent the tube or bubbles, so maybe Sakurai did the next best thing. Another thing I noticed is that in both cases, it's the left eye. Unowninator (talk) 12:51, 7 February 2016 (EST)
 * This is something that no one remembers and has little-to-no connection to anything. Even if it was a reference, we will not add it until there is sufficient proof from Sakurai or some other developer related to the trailers that make it obviously true. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥ . Or maybe DatNuttyKid.  12:54, 7 February 2016 (EST)

Okay, so what if we said it was a coincidence or something? Unowninator (talk) 13:04, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * Calling it a coincidence means nothing if no one believes it. Disaster Flare  DisasterFlareValentineSig.png  (talk)  13:50, 19 February 2016 (EST)

Huh? Unowninator (talk) 13:56, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * Even if we call it a coincidence, the fact of the matter is that the majority believes these aren't related, and until we have sufficient evidence that says otherwise, people will continue to not believe it. Disaster Flare  DisasterFlareValentineSig.png  (talk)  13:58, 19 February 2016 (EST)

Can we get this protected?
It recently seems to be a vandal target. Penro ...that's all.  19:32, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * Jesus Christ. Again? Unowninator (talk) 19:49, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * It is Mewtwo. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   19:51, 19 February 2016 (EST)

So what? Unowninator (talk) 19:52, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * Ladies and gentlemen: SK and his sense of humor. LOL --BeepYouSignature.png BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk)''' 22:51, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * *bow* Serpent  SKSig.png  King   22:55, 19 February 2016 (EST)
 * ...I don't get it. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by cupid♥ . Or maybe DatNuttyKid.  23:33, 19 February 2016 (EST)