Forum:Kirby is broken

Kirby is broken. I mean, why isn't he top tier? Here's what he can do. He can spam his Stone over and over again by jumping into the air and crashing it down. It's hard to dodge and does tons of damage and knockback. Furthermore, he has final cutter, as an awsome spike, projectile, and it has the ability to trap opponents if spammed. His hammer does massive knockback, and it's really fast in the air. Plus, he has Kirbycide, which can give him an automatic win if he has more stock than the opponent. His Dair is an amazing meteor smash, and his uair and Usmash are excellent for StarKoing opponents. He can create a wall of pain using his fair and bair. His side smash is an awsome KO move. His Uthrow can be used for Kirbycide, and his Down throw can chaingrab. Why did he just go down on the tier list? 98.111.95.78 18:56, April 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Stone-It is very easy to dodge, as it stalls first, giving reaction time, and is easily broken by grabs, and has ending frames upon leaving rock form.
 * 2) Final Cutter-If spammed, it is easily predictable, and can be easily jumped over, and I don't see how it can "trap" opponents. The spike is also very unreliable, as it can be predicted if Kirby is falling, although it is good for stopping edgeguards. The first hit can be DI'd, leading to an unreliable setup for the second part.
 * 3) I will admit his Dair is good, but it is slightly predictable, although it is still one of his most reliable moves.
 * 4) His Uair is not reliable at all for Star KO's, unless the opponent's damage is extremely high, but his Usmash is reliable, admittedly, but only in certain areas (kills Jigglypuff at 80% on FD iirc, so >100% for most opponents).
 * 5) His WoP is not reliable at all in Brawl, due to a lack of enough hitstun to keep it consistent.
 * 6) His side smash I'm honestly not sure about, but I assume it is similar to his Usmash, so yea.
 * 7) His Uthrow can't be used for Kirbycide, at all. Even if you manage to go off the edge, it still hits an invisible floor.
 * 8) Dthrow-No, it can't.
 * 9) Kirbyciding-This is a kind of hit-or-miss area. It can be hard to set up, and can be very predictable, but if it can be pulled off, yes, it is very useful.
 * 10) In general, other characters have been proven to be getting better (take Falco, for example), and have been decided to be better than Kirby. The tier list changes, so do character's abilities. People are learning how to counter Kirby, etc. Smoreking (T)  (c)  20:03, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * One attack may be easier to dodge, but if spammed it is hard.
 * Final cutter may be predictable, but it is not easier to dodge. If you try to jump over it it will bring you down again. If you use it to recover it will spike safely when you hit the edge.
 * OK
 * OK, but if uair is used near the top blast line...
 * Hitstun is not necessary due to its knockback
 * It isn't similar to his Usmash
 * Yes it can, on some stages
 * Yes, on some opponents
 * All you need to do is suck someone up near the edge and walk off
 * But people are also learning how to counter falco. 98.111.95.78 22:08, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

,,
 * One attack may be easier to dodge, but if spammed it is hard.
 * You've got it mixed up. One attack used randomly in a stream of attacks would be hard to predict and dodge. On the other hand, if it is spammed then it is predictable, making it easy to dodge. 00:38, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

OK, Kirby might be good, and you might be right about some of his things, but that doesn't make him broken. Trust me, if he was broken, we'd know by now. Broken means so good as to exclude the possibility of any other strategy/choice. Akuma is broken in SFII, Black Lotus is broken in Magic. Meta Knight might be broken, but Kirby sure as hell isn't. Oh, and the stone thing is just plain dumb. You can't spam the stone. It is easy to dodge, and hard to keep getting above the opponent repeatedly to spam it. And yes, the computer is too dumb to dodge it; Mew2King isn't. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 01:31, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Stone
Stone is a great move because it can easily surprise your opponent. Say you're playing agains Bowser. Bowser uses his Up Smash to knock you into the air. As you fall down, he charges a second one to knock you higher. But wait! Instead of just falling, you use stone. Now, your opponent, who has already started his smash attack, his helpless as you knock him flying. This doesn't just apply to Bowser, but pretty much every opponent that uses Juggling. When spammed, it is predictable, but your opponent cannot dodge forever, especially on stages without platforms, such as Final Destination. Eventually, their shield will break, they'll be forced to an edge, or simply not dodge in time. Perhaps I shouldn't have said broken, but at least S tier would be worthy. 98.111.95.78 02:54, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Btw, juggling is almost never done with consecutive grounded attacks. It is almost always through chasing the opponent into the air, and in that case Kirby wouldn't have enough time to get the stone off, unless he was hit very high, in which case your opponent would be stupid to start charging another smash and hope you would be dumb enough to just come back down into his hit-box.  Please stop just playing against computers and thinking that human opponents behave the same way.  Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 17:24, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Professional replays or it didn't happen. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 03:11, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Stone is not broken at all, if you spam it, you'll easily get grabbed out of Stone, ANY type of grab can grab it 100% of the time. And still has vulnerability to non-grab moves in the start-up and if Stone absorbs 30% damage or more (doesn't matter getting hit by multiple moves or a move like King Dedede's fully charged Forward Smash), he gets FULL knockback without taking damage. IMO he is where he should be. Not that I know much about him because I hardly ever meet a good one, but his approach is a bit lacking and he himself has no projectile, so he's easily camped. IMO his best move is Back Air and not Stone. Forward Smash is of course good and can KO a Snake at 130% with perfect DI. Final Cutter isn't that good and offstage it is easily edge hogged. Dair is only good against characters with terrible recovery like Link or Ganondorf or against character who lack it vertically like DK, or spiking in the water of for example Delfino Plaza.

About Falco, ChuDat's Kirby, arguably best Kirby in the world (no one else at Chudat's level really plays Kirby) played against DEHF's Falco in Pound 4, arguably the best Falco in the world, and he beat DEHF 2-1 in the set, but it was because in the end of the last match Chu got extremely lucky with a silly misstake of DEHF when he had the lead. It shown that Falco has extreme trouble KOing Kirby, but it's still 55/45 Falco IMO. Firewario (talk) 06:22, April 6, 2010 (UTC) I have my own trick for Kirby. I stand near the edge of a stage, suck in the enemy, and walk off the edge with it,still in my mouth.Works almost everytime ~_^


 * Kirby is one of my favorites, but I admit he has poor range and everything else said above. Ah, well. 65.67.100.115 17:58, July 11, 2010 (UTC)