SmashWiki talk:SmashWiki Status System/Archive 1

Policy proposal
This is my attempt to bring in a policy that restricts userspace/forum editing during busy times while retaining the "loose" atmosphere we have. The gist is that when business is slow, we don't care that much if you play in your userspace - we'll still tell people to not do it and lock those who do it excessively, but in the end it doesn't hurt us. When there's a need to do work, though - a situation we all know will happen within the next year or so when SSB4 information starts to come out - then we get more strict on living in userspace and forums. Bulbapedia does similar to this - they're currently restricting userspace edits to one a day since B2/W2 came out (though their reason is more of server load).

I do think we really need a general userspace restriction policy of some sort - we're the biggest NIWA wiki that doesn't currently have one, and I want to have something in place before we need one (i.e. next info deluge). But I don't want to just suddenly say to the wiki "alright you get 5 userspace edits a day now" or something, because people dislike change, and this proposal allows us to impose restrictions when needed while backing off when not.

I am generally open to change suggestions about anything in this proposal, but bring them up here before you edit the proposal itself. Once the proposal is ironed out, then there will be a vote on the final result on a separate page (for clearness). Toomai Glittershine The Sharp 16:38, 28 July 2012 (EDT)

Shwido's fabulous proposal

Well I reckon any userspace edit that has a grammatical error within it should be undone and the user in question should be permabanned.

...what.

...no seriously.

OK, ya got meh. I like this proposal due to this wiki always picking up more traffic every month, even when SSB4 was announced we got immense traffic, when the game is released it's more than likely that the shit will hit the fan. I am Supporting this proposal due to it being very lenient, being a proactive policy that'll help monitor the wiki (there are examples of this becoming and issue in other NIWA wikis), and because in the past there have been a multitude of userpage edits without the use of the preview button.-- S h  w  i  d  o  ^.^ 20:46, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

I support, too. RickTommy (talk) 21:47, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

Support: This is an excellent idea for when traffic starts skyrocketing when more news of SSB4 is revealed. Unknown the  Hedgehog  00:48, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

Support: I ♥ this proposal--Bandit 00:55, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

I have nothing more to add other than that I support this. Toast  ltimatum  09:05, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

I will have to agree on this because there are times like this, as Shwido said. Dots The PSI Asian 10:25, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

Sudden urge to support.  Shu pa  Roeh   22:46, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

I think this is a great idea, I support this. A bunch. The Cheese   20:03, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

I see lots of potential benefits and I don't see anything wrong with it. I guess I'll support.  Air   Conditioner    10:03, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

No reason not to Support. Blind  C  ol  ou  rs   10:23, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

This proposal has my support.  Blue Ninjakoopa (Talk) 10:36, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

You know what, I'm gonna agree with this, so I support this. Smash Master   20:02, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

Support Could help. A lot. Meta   Ike    19:57, 15 August 2012 (EDT)

Support Sounds useful. Mousehunter321 (talk  · contributions ) 20:05, 15 August 2012 (EDT)

One thing that could be considered...
Closer to the time, once more and more edits about SSB4 come around, Extension:Patroller could be installed. This adds the red exclamation marks next to unpatrolled edits in recent changes. Then admins, and possibly rollback (if you give them the patroller user right) could then check the edits and make sure they are not stupid. It wouldn't limit the amount of stupid edits but it would make it easier to identify the stupid edits. Also, an autopatrolled right could be given to trusted users. Just a suggestion anyway, one that Wikisimpsons uses anyway (and it works pretty well there). The Solar Dragon ( Talk - Contribs.) 08:05, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I didn't realize we didn't already have this, I support installing it, and at the same time, I would like to become a patroller. On the wikis I am an administrator, I always check and then patrol new edits, and being autoconfirmed myself would be a relief for everyone else. Toast  Wii U Logo Transparent.png ltimatum Transparent Swadloon.png 09:04, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

We actually already have this patrol thing, based on the number of "!"s in the recent changes. Toomai Glittershine Da Bomb 10:29, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I thought that normal users were supposed to see them too... :S Well, closer to the time, it might be wise to add the patroller right to Rollbacks too so that they can patrol edits as well as admins, as there will be a large amount of edits coming through then. Solar Dragon  ( Talk •  Contribs. ) 17:53, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

Branches
I have not yet seen any discussion over which of the two branches is better. Toomai Glittershine The Obfuscating 15:40, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I choose Branch 1. It is more simple. Branch 2 is too complicated.-- Shu pa  Roeh  TypicalGuy.png 16:00, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

I should probably note that I much prefer branch 2 despite its complexity, as it allows non-admins to have a say. Toomai Glittershine The Spark 20:12, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

To be honest, even if we choose Option 2, I'm expecting the system to turn into Option 1, I would predict only staff would want to change it. And because of this, I see little point in trying to teach non-staff members how to do it, and we may as well just go with Option 1. Toast  ltimatum  20:38, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I disagree. I'm sure several active non-admins would be interested in participating, and even if it's primarily used by admins, having the option for non-staff to be involved helps enforce the idea that admins are not kings. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Celeritous 19:12, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I like option 2 because it means that administrators won't have to be constantly checking the activity level; they can just check the percentage level as it changes and make judgments from there and the activity level.  Docto rP a i n 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 20:03, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

I think option 2 should be used, but the line, "Can be done once every 24 hour and no more than once in a row in 48 hours", is confusing. Does this mean once a day, once ever other day, or something else? ScoreCounter (talk) 13:27, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 * it means that if you change the percentage, you can't do it for the next day. <font face="Arial"> Shu pa  Roeh  TypicalGuy.png 13:47, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 * So wouldn't it be easier to say once every 48 hours, for clarity?ScoreCounter (talk) 14:07, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I think there's a difference between "once" and "once in a row", but I'm not exactly sure what that difference is. It certainly means once a day, but you have some other restriction every other day.  D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o rP a i n 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 14:18, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 * Can someone clarify this?ScoreCounter (talk) 16:10, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 * The idea is basically this: You can make one change a day, but if no one else has changed it since your last change, you must wait an extra day. I figure it's not strictly necessary, but it makes it harder for one user to skew the value when other users aren't too interested in participating. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Honcho 17:54, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

I see, thanks for clearing that up.ScoreCounter (talk) 18:43, 7 August 2012 (EDT)

Oppose
Unnecessary bureaucracy is unnecessary. Front page and community central, along with the to-do list should have this covered. If more attention is needed to a particular sector, it can be highlighted using the sitenotice. If high activity requires monitoring of userspace and forum areas, we can discuss that when we are in a point where that needs to be discussed. As far as I can see, we have not reached such a point yet. Because this system is unnecessary, I oppose it. Mr.  <font color="midnightblue">Anon  talk  17:00, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

I just realized that this wiki has a grand total of 1 heavily active admin. I now support the policy. Mr.  <font color="midnightblue">Anon  talk  17:15, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

What are the restrictions?
Am I missing something here? Have they not been decided upon yet or am I just too stupid to find them?  D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o rP a i n 9 9  {ROLLBACKER}
 * Yeah okay that can do with some elaboration. I'll go put that in. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Ghostbuster 21:51, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
 * They same a bit vague, but I'm assuming that's because they'll be decided on a situation-by-situation basis. Overall, though, they don't seem unreasonable or too restrictive and I now feel comfortable supporting this proposal.  D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o rP a i n 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 23:36, 6 August 2012 (EDT)

And just out of curiosity...
Which status level would the Wiki be in now? RickTommy (talk) 09:15, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 * Green +10.--<font face="Arial"> Shu pa  Roeh  TypicalGuy.png 13:07, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

When first implemented, it would start out at Green ±0%. Toomai Glittershine The SMASH-GINEER 18:38, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Given the unanimous support
...I don't see any reason to not implement this straight without a "final vote" as originally predicted. If I don't hear dissent in the next few hours it's happening. Toomai Glittershine The Quiet 17:22, 19 August 2012 (EDT)

Alright then implementation is underway. Toomai Glittershine The Producer 20:55, 20 August 2012 (EDT)
 * bureaucracyyyyyyyyyy – Emmett  17:28, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
 * If you're going to voice a real opposition, do so. If not, don't make unnecessary comments.  D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o rP a i n 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 20:56, 21 August 2012 (EDT)

Hmmmm
Is there any way we can put the status in Recent Changes? I don't ever really look at the main page, and I'm assuming may other users don't either.  D<font color=#190080>o<font color=#310080>c<font color=#490080>t<font color=#620080>o rP a i n 9 9  {ROLLBACKER} 21:01, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I +1 this. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:15, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
 * As do I. Mr.  <font color="midnightblue">Anon Anon.png talk   22:38, 21 August 2012 (EDT)

Yeah it can be done. I'll need to think of a way to do it that doesn't look funny though. Toomai Glittershine The Celeritous 23:56, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
 * Implemented. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Irrepressible 19:39, 22 August 2012 (EDT)

Percentage
I don't really understand the percentage. What does the value indicate? —Smiddle my sig is not fancy 05:15, 22 August 2012 (EDT)
 * The value is basically a measure of what the community thinks the status should be - higher values mean they think it should be upgraded, lower values mean they think it should be downgraded. Like in Smash Bros., a value of ±100% doesn't mean anything specific, but it does send a message to the admins that a change really should be made. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Trumpeteer 06:32, 22 August 2012 (EDT)
 * Ok, thanks. —Smiddle my sig is not fancy 06:48, 22 August 2012 (EDT)

Category
I'm a bit torn trying to decide whether this should be considered a policy or a guideline. The consequences of status yellow and red match that of a policy, but this page is written in the style of a guideline, or even a help page, with the status sytem being a mere principle that this page guides users on. This page is currently considered a policy, but I am unsure if this should change or not. Could someone offer a decisive opinion? Toast  ltimatum  14:08, 23 August 2012 (EDT)
 * I am of the opinion it is a policy because while its ramifications are loose, its foundation is solid. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Brass 16:44, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

Colors
What percentage does it need for the color for the circle to change other than green? <font color="Blue">The <font color="Blue">Awesome   18:18, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
 * If you would take 5 minutes of your oh so precious time to read the percentage section above, you wouldn't have to ask this, but because your time is very valuable, I will say that there is no percentage for the color of the circle to change. The color will change when an admin feels like changing it. Mega  Tron1  XD  Decepticon.png 20:43, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
 * Since Mega was clear enough, I'll just expand. The purpose of the percentage is to give the admins an idea of what the community thinks about the status. If the percentage is really high, it indicates that the community favors a change in the status. Mr.  <font color="midnightblue">Anon Anon.png talk   23:11, 18 October 2012 (EDT)

Userspace
Restricting userspace edits is kinda dumb, no offense. Userspace is where users can do whatever they want, so blocking users for making too many edits in their userspace is stoopid. 72.181.167.204 20:30, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * It clogs Recent Changes, especially in times of high activity, and makes it harder to manage the wiki effectively. In addition, some users make zero effort to actually contribute to the wiki and treat it like a forum site, and that is not the purpose of this wiki. Return of Air Conditioner AC.png ...or is he? 20:34, 15 September 2014 (EDT)


 * Isn't there like a feature that lets you show 500 changes? With that many, I don't think it will clog RC too much. 72.181.167.204 20:52, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * There is, but even then, it clogs Recent Changes. Rtzxy  [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]]  Smashing!  20:54, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * There's also a filter namespace feature. 72.181.167.204 21:00, 15 September 2014 (EDT)


 * @72.181.167.204: You're missing the point. Focusing on the userspace side of the wiki doesn't help the wiki part of the site, the part that matters. Probation stops people from editing userpages and forums, which should help them focus on mainspace edits.  Qw <font color="003F3F">er <font color="005F5F">ty <font color="005F6F">(t <font color="003C6F">al <font color="000F7F">k)  20:58, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * I know we should still edit the mainspace pages, but blocking users for overediting in their own userspace is pretty dumb.72.181.167.204 21:00, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * You're still missing the point. PROB exists so people are encouraged to edit the mainspace more than just their userspaces/forums. Rtzxy  [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]]  Smashing!  21:03, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Whatever, Hitler. I'll just go to the Super Smash Bros. wiki on Wikia where no stupid rules like this exist.72.181.167.204 21:10, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * NPA first of all. Secondly, they don't ban users for editing their userspace, they get put on probation, which prevents them from editing forums and userspaces and even then the probations usually only last 3-7 days, plus admins are usually pretty chill about the rule, I've seen many people get away with just a warning even in the red, they really only issue a probation when they ignore the warning. Laikue (talk|contribs) 21:29, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * "Userspace and forum edits are heavily restricted: users will be strongly discouraged to make more than a few such edits a day, with too many too quickly resulting in a short block." 72.181.167.204 22:58, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Then it should be reworded, but in all my time here on the wiki, I've seen very, very few people actually get blocked for userspace edits (I've only seen like 3, but all of them were doing something else wrong as well) Laikue (talk|contribs) 23:01, 15 September 2014 (EDT)
 * Whenever a user opens the editing page for his/her userpage, this is what the top says:
 * The wiki currently has a high Red status. Editing your userspace without contributing to the mainspace will result in your probation. ZeldaStarfoxfan2164 (talk) is a never lover boy 00:39, 16 September 2014 (EDT)

Do we need to be in red starting February 3rd?
I know we were not in red for Ryu and Roy's release, but this release seems a lot bigger, given that it is to be the last DLC for Smash. As such, the edit volume on this day may be tremendous as we attempt to tie up loose ends. I have considered just putting us in red on Feb 3rd, but I wanted to hear what you all think first. Serpent   King   22:29, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * I personally think we should go to Royu way. I mean, same number of characters. Penro, the PenroDarkPitHead.png and PenroZSSHead.png main. 22:47, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * Just because it's the same number doesn't mean it's not gonna be any more chaotic. As Serpent said, it's the last two DLC characters, people will be all over those and there will be chaos until everything's finished up. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  22:48, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * (edit conflict) Yeah, but we didn't have the whole "end of DLC" bit to contend with, which I feel will add to the edit volume considerably Serpent  SKSig.png  King   22:49, 31 January 2016 (EST)

If red, how many updates are we allowed to make? Unowninator (talk) 22:50, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * There is no hard-fast limit, just make it reasonable. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   22:52, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * To SK and DF, good point. Penro, the PenroDarkPitHead.png and PenroZSSHead.png main. 22:53, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * To be clear, I think we should be in red for a couple of days, as that's when testing knockback and stuff like that wraps up. Penro, the PenroDarkPitHead.png and PenroZSSHead.png main. 22:55, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * Same number of characters? Three where released that day (Lucas was already known, however). -- Ethan [[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]] ( Discussion ) 22:58, 31 January 2016 (EST)
 * Oops. Penro, the PenroDarkPitHead.png and PenroZSSHead.png main. 23:05, 31 January 2016 (EST)

Yeah!! Let's go to pink! Seems reasonable to go to red KirbysCrazyAppetite (talk) 07:00, 1 February 2016 (EST)
 * Everyone get your userspace edits in now, we are most likely going to be in red very soon. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   20:53, 1 February 2016 (EST)

I disagree with red. We had much more information coming in for Royucas because it wasn't just the release but also a reveal, and we weren't in red and had no problem. Going to red for something we've known about for two months and is a smaller amount of content. just seems like an overreaction. I'd say keep it mid-to-high yellow and if we do suddenly get a wave of people for whatever reason, then we can switch it. But with only two characters and a stage that, again, we've known about for two months and already have footage for, plus the fact that basically no one is excited for them, I just think red is ridiculous. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe DatNuttyKid. 21:04, 1 February 2016 (EST)

Color
What is required to change the status color? Is it something other than the number like what an admin does? The whole time I've been on here it has been yellow. -- Ethan  ( Discussion ) 21:36, 5 February 2016 (EST)
 * Uncontrollable amounts of traffic Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png 21:37, 5 February 2016 (EST)
 * To change the status color, a huge amount of info has to burst and traffic has to be very thick. An admin changes the status. Ganonmew,  The Lovingly Evil Clone  22:22, 5 February 2016 (EST)
 * Or there could be a lot less traffic to change to status. Penro ...that's all. PenroDarkPitHead.png PenroZSSHead.png 22:25, 5 February 2016 (EST)

+ and -
I'm not sure. Would -5 mean less than (or equal to) 5 or five less than zero? -- Ethan  ( Discussion ) 18:47, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
 * Less 5 less than 0 Serpent  SKSig.png  King   18:50, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
 * The latter, I think. PenroPenroDarkPitHead.png PenroZSSHead.png 19:06, 14 April 2016 (EDT)

What does this actually mean?
What does the number actually mean? Does it represent how the wiki normally is? -- Ethan  ( Discussion ) 20:54, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
 * The SWSS is a system for telling both how much there is to do and how much activity there is. It's primarily used to give users a feel for how many userspace edits they should be limiting themselves to. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   21:19, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
 * I meant would does 0 represent how it normally is. Like, what would, say... -15 mean? -- Ethan [[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]] ( Discussion ) 22:16, 14 April 2016 (EDT)
 * -15 would mean that there is still stuff to do, but in general, the wiki is in good shape. We start to consider going to green around -30 or so Serpent  SKSig.png  King   22:27, 14 April 2016 (EDT)

Green
Will this wiki ever turn back to green? Kirby's Crazy Appetite ~ 15:49, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
 * As soon as the things to do tab goes below 1000, it's likely it'll revert to green at that point. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  15:51, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

Errors in there
It says for the yellow status: Userspace and forum edits are loosely restricted: warnings given for spending too much time in userspace/forums are given sooner, with locks and/or blocks following equally soon. But there's no such thing as a lock on the wiki, unless it means a page protection. TabuuandMasterCore 07:40, 30 May 2016 (EDT)
 * I'm sure it means probation PoultrysigSSB4.png Poultry PoultrysigSSBM.png( talk ) the God-Slayer 07:42, 30 May 2016 (EDT)

Why is it green?
The things to do list isn't below 1,000 so why is it green? TabuuandMasterCore 22:41, 13 June 2016 (EDT)
 * A vote was put into place recently and the consensus was almost unanimous to bring it to green. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  22:52, 13 June 2016 (EDT)

What is the point of this system?
I don't get why this system is a thing, why is it around in the first place? George Jones 20:20, 4 August 2018 (EDT)
 * it's for a user to get a feel for how busy we are at any time, especially so they can know how much to edit their userspace without being in trouble.  Serpent SKSig.png  King  22:13, 4 August 2018 (EDT)