User talk:Smash Master/Archive 3

Obviously you did not learn from your last experience.
Remember what we said about consulting Toomai or other admins before adding/changing damage percentages? I think you should give it a try. Toomai actually has files containing the theoretical damages (factoring in Stale Move Negation). -- Brian Don't try me! 17:02, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
 * ^Listen to this. You don't seem to have learned anything from the above discussion, where consensus held that 1% differences in attack damages could easily be the result of staleness or freshness and thus should be differed to people who can verify percentages. I'm going to make this simple: If you are going to do testing for damages, report it to the talk page first to allow for peer review. Mr.  Anon Anon.png talk   22:56, 13 October 2012 (EDT)
 * I haven't been changing anything by 1% any more. Can we stop this now, it's getting annoying. Smash  Master   00:36, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * Maybe not by 1%, but you have been adding and changing percentages on the bair page, up smash page, and dtilt page without talking to Toomai even AFTER we wrote walls of texts telling you to do so. Fine I concede that the percentages differ by significant amounts and what added to pages w/o percentages is better than nothing, but it's more alarming that you don't learn from your mistakes and change. You say you know changing isn't hard, but you contradict yourself by making no serious effort to change. If you wonder why I told you things twice, I told you because you didn't learn it the 1st time. -- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 01:42, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * In this edit, you changed Donkey Kong's bair percentage by 1%. While the other, more substantive changes have been verified (I had no problem with them), Mouse has not verified the Donkey Kong one. Mr.  Anon Anon.png talk   11:32, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

I've actually tested some of the damage percentages that Smash Master changed, and they seem to be correct. 's up smash does deal 18%, and 's does 22%. 's bair does 16%. And 's dtilt deals 10%. Note that these were tested while fresh in training mode. Additionally, the individual articles for the aforementioned characters match my testing as well as Smash Master's edits. I am not excusing or defending any of Smash Master's other behavior, but I think that a user's history should not preclude them from editing in a certain field. That said, changes of 1% are generally unhelpful mainly because of the damage bonus applied to fresh attacks. Mousehunter321 (talk  · contributions ) 02:41, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * Stale-move negation doesn't apply in training mode, so I doubt the freshness bonus does. Toast  Wii U Logo Transparent.png ltimatum Transparent Swadloon.png 07:05, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * It isn't the substantive changes (like from 7% to 10%) that we are talking about, but rather the 1% differences in attacks that could easily be due to other factors. Mr.  Anon Anon.png talk   11:34, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * @Toast: The freshness bonus does not apply in training mode without hacking stale move negation in, so percentage gotten from there should not be used. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:53, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * In your edit summary, I did not want to archive it because I didn't like the discusion, I archived it because it was getting to big, it's bigger than my first archived talk page. Besides, Toomai said I should archive it, so I did. Smash  Master   14:02, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * This is still an active discussions so your not suppost to archive it just yet. Dots The Cute Asian NintenNESsprite.png 14:05, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * I thought it was finished. Smash  Master   14:06, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * The discussion hasn't concluded yet, regardless if you like it or not or if you think that this discussion is too big. Dots The Cute Asian NintenNESsprite.png 14:16, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * I assumed it was finished because no one responded in a while. Smash  Master   14:21, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
 * The last before mine was made at 11:34 am EST, two hours before my post, that's not "no one responding in a while". That's not giving anyone a chance to respond farther. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 15:04, 14 October 2012 (EDT)

What were you just warned about?
This may seem harsh, but how about actually reading your talk page? Mr.  Anon  talk  14:39, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
 * Perhaps you should assume good faith, and not asssume that Smash Master's damage percentages are wrong? You don't have access to Brawl, so I know you haven't checked. Toast  Wii U Logo Transparent.png ltimatum Transparent Swadloon.png 14:42, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
 * I realize this. However, Smash Master has been told several times to take small revisions like this to the talk page in the future. I did not revert Smash Master because, as you noted, I cannot verify his edits myself. However, I posted this in reference to the conversations above. Mr.  Anon Anon.png talk   14:48, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

Why do you people continue to harp on this user for attempting to be helpful? As long as his edits are not false (which I believe have not been of late) there is nothing wrong going on here. Toomai Glittershine The Chronicler 14:58, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

Policy violations
Hello, your edit summary in this edit is a violation of NPA. For more information on why it is, read the policy itself; it should be pretty clear. If you continue to do things like this, it may be considered as disruptive editing and result in a block, so I would recommend not doing so in the future. , Air   Conditioner   I am the air con. 16:38, 25 October 2012 (EDT)

You should read this 1RV. And looking at Mario and Luigi it would appear their up smashes lost both start up lag AND ending lag.-- Brian Don't try me! 22:52, 31 October 2012 (EDT)
 * I know the ending lag has been lost, I have the Wii version of SSB64 so the start up seems faster than Melee (because the gameplay on the Wii is faster than the N64).


 * And another thing, I have only reverted once, as you can see on the recent changes. Smash  Master   23:23, 31 October 2012 (EDT)


 * I know the ending lag has been lost, I have the Wii version of SSB64 so the start up seems faster than Melee
 * Well if that is the case, then I have reason to doubt the rest of you edits regarding SSB64, since your not actually playing the real game, rather only an emulation. If you would like to find real information about SSB64 or would like to verify the information you THINK is correct, visit this website BEFORE editing.


 * And another thing, I have only reverted once, as you can see on the recent changes.
 * Violation of the policy means reverting someone else's revert of your edit. In the recent example, you posted information of questionable accuracy. I undid that. You then reverted my revert, so you are in violation of the policy. Frame data on SSB64 is hard to come by on smash boards, so I will leave the buffs page as it is for now, until I find the actual frame data.-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 00:40, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
 * The Virtual Console version should be assumed to be no different than the 64 version unless evidence has been provided to the contrary. Nintendo went through pains to make virtual console emulations as similar as possible to the original (which is why controls do not match up). I used the VC copy for my SSB 64 forward smash tables and other Smash 64 rankings. That is not a reason to doubt his edits. AGF holds.


 * Other than that, you are correct about 1RV.  Mr.  Anon Anon.png talk   00:47, 1 November 2012 (EDT)

Similarity
Hi, do you think we're kinda similar? You know the mistakes and all that? People are saying we're kind of similar. The Awesome   22:00, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
 * I kinda do now that you mentioned it. A lot of are edit do get reverted. lol Smash  Master   15:27, 2 November 2012 (EDT)
 * Yeah. The Awesome   21:21, 7 November 2012 (EST)

Tch Tch
What's this I see? Please do actually read your talk page and thinking through what's been said to you. -- Brian Don't try me! 23:36, 2 November 2012 (EDT)
 * Who would give a crap about that, as long as they are correct they are OK, as Toomai pointed out before. Smash  Master   00:24, 3 November 2012 (EDT)


 * Such a response only indicates you never even read and took into consideration what we wrote on your talk page. How mature. A smasher would rather know what % a move has when it's fresh, not it's base %. Someone with the skill of semi-professional, which you claim to be, should know that. Also I can't be sure of 2 things. 1 whether or not you are testing this on training mode and 2 whether your allowing all hitboxes of the attack to land or not. -- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 00:35, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
 * The freshness bonus is only visible if the attack does 20% damage or more. So changing 10% to 9% is in fact correct. As for the 13% to 12%, that's an excusable mistake given that the attack in question has a lot of variance. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quiet 00:41, 3 November 2012 (EDT)
 * Fine fair enough, but still actually learn something from my pestering. Be mindful of your edits and how accurate they may be.-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 04:12, 3 November 2012 (EDT)

Using the navbox template on your user pages
...is resulting in the page attempting to link to. You might want to do something about that, perhaps copying the coding from the navbox template and removing the parts that aren't relevant, or using a more generic table. Air  Conditioner   It's getting better all the time! 17:16, 7 November 2012 (EST)

I'm hoping that you don't think
a mental condition will justify your poor reverts out of anger. This is the got dang internet, you can take as long as you want to do anything. Mega Tron1  XD   20:44, 15 November 2012 (EST)

This edit summary
If I see one like it again, that'll be a minor block. Toomai Glittershine The Producer 21:23, 16 November 2012 (EST)


 * Sorry, I'm still some what mad about the changing the %s by one percent incident, and how they were annoying me about it. Now I know not to do that again. Smash  Master   21:31, 16 November 2012 (EST)


 * Just because people were badgering you about it, or "being mean to you" (if that's the only way your stubborn attitude will let you interpret this incident), does not give you the right to ignore the entire incident. Sure, vilify me all you want, but in the end you'll only be seen an immature kid who can't handle harsh words well. Seriously, grow up.-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 23:49, 16 November 2012 (EST)


 * I'm only being like that because of the way you treat me. I'm usually nicer and more mature than this. Smash  Master   23:58, 16 November 2012 (EST)


 * Not getting angry after that; that's a good sign. Still, you were stubborn about incorrect edits way before I gave you crap for it. Also you should learn to control your anger instead of blaming me for it. You have had ample time to learn from your mistakes, but as I see it from your history, you did not. Both in the past and the present you never truly corrected your behavior or have cared to make meaningful changes to yourself and habits after being criticized. I was nicer then, and continuing being nice didn't change anything. It only showed that you never cared to listen to any of us. That's kinda irritating you know. My patience ran out since you failed to change, even after my little advice talks (the nice ones).-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 00:13, 17 November 2012 (EST)


 * I was only tring to be accurate. The damages I've been changing were incorrect, so I was only tring to be helpful by making them correct. I took it sorta mean because I can't tell if they were nice cuz this is the internet. Smash  Master   10:52, 17 November 2012 (EST)


 * That doesn't change the fact you were being a stubborn little prick about everything. It's your attitude that makes you unlikable, not the edits. And if you were/are getting mad over harsh words on the internet, that says alot about how mature you really are. I really hope you've actually learned from all your mistakes and are prepared to change for the better. You claim it's easy to change, but you haven't. Shape up, kid. -- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 19:19, 17 November 2012 (EST)


 * Shake up? What ever that means (in this situation). Smash  Master   00:17, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 * Brian wants you to correct your behavior on this wiki. Dots The Thanksgiving NintenNESsprite.png 00:21, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 * Thanks Dots, SHAPE UP. Can you read?-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 02:49, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 * By this point, Brian, you're being worse than Smash Master was. His edit summary was potentially punishable, but Toomai's comment and perhaps one of yours would be enough, but you're not only taking this out of proportion, but becoming offensive. Calling him a prick is a very mean-spirited way to put things, and in combination with everything you've given the guy, the easily offended could well consider it a personal attack. It's fortunate you didn't type something worse. Indeed, that page does prominently tell you to comment on the content, not the contributor, so don't claim "It's your attitude that makes you unlikeable, not your edits", so please, cut the guy some slack. As it happens, Smash Master's edits are correct, so if we forgive one edit summary, we can carry on with whatever we were doing before. Toast  Wii U Logo Transparent.png ltimatum Transparent Swadloon.png 07:13, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 * That's fair Toast, I can stop it here. I just hope Smash Master will truly change for the better and learn to listen to other people regardless of how harsh they are; that's mark of a truly mature person Smash Master, listening without getting angry. I'll take care to attempt more patience after this, but the burden falls on you Smash Master, not to try it (my patience).-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 07:47, 18 November 2012 (EST)


 * I said shake up? I hit the wrong key by mistake, I was tired, so I mistook that "p" for a "k". And yes I can read. Smash  Master   09:48, 18 November 2012 (EST)

"Indeed, that page does prominently tell you to comment on the content, not the contributor"

It's the contributor behind the edits, if the contributor's attitude is creating the problems, it is indeed fair game to comment on the contributor. Don't misconstrue SW:NPA Toast as saying you are never allowed to address another user in a negative manner directly. Omega  Tyrant   18:35, 18 November 2012 (EST)

Money match at Apex?
Come to Apex, and then we can have $100 money match? If what you say is true, this would be free money for you :p Omega   Tyrant   21:47, 28 November 2012 (EST)
 * I would love to prove I'm right, but, where is it? Smash  Master   21:50, 28 November 2012 (EST)
 * Omega  Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:53, 28 November 2012 (EST)
 * Make sure this is on stream so the rest of the wiki can see. We'd all love to see you actually defend your ego with actions instead of puny words. Assuming Green Ranger and other smashers in my area go to Apex, I'll likely be there too. You can money match me in melee. I'll warn you right now. Kirby is down right awful and completely unviable in that game.-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 22:11, 28 November 2012 (EST)
 * There could be a chance that I would make it (not %100 sure).


 * One more thing, I play Kirby competantly even in Melee. Smash  Master   23:34, 28 November 2012 (EST)


 * That's funny, no one's ever been able to play a good Kirby in melee. No matter how good you claim to be, Kirby doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell taking on Marth. I'd pick another character if I were you.-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 07:33, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * If you want us to see that your Kirby is competent then show us proof of why this is true then. Show us tournament results that shows us that your a good successful Kirby if you want us to believe you. Dots The Engineer NintenNESsprite.png 08:36, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * Don't dogpile now Dots. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:54, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * @Brian: I don't know any skilled Kirby mains in Melee, exept my older bro, who is better than me. Smash  Master   15:51, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * No such thing as a skilled Kirby player. In melee, Kirby has no winning matchups and will never amount to anything when it comes to tournament placings. He has virtually nothing going for him in his moveset, having no range, power, combo ability or fatal edgeguards. His recovery is poor and easy to edgeguard despite having 5 jumps. His limits as a character are so atrocious that a barely competent player playing a much higher tier character like Marth or Fox will surely defeat a much better player who chooses to go Kirby. I JV 3 stocked a ranked NorCal smasher who went Kirby. Even Pichu has much better things going for him and would likely be a few tiers higher had it not been for that self damaging gimmick. You have no chance winning money with melee Kirby, much less wining a tournament or even making brackets. -- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 16:28, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * How about shutting up til you actually see me? Smash  Master   16:40, 29 November 2012 (EST)

Your "feats"
I know that this has nothing to do with helping the wiki, but a couple of things intrigue me:

1) Your mastered ability to super wavedash - a la Phanna

2) Your inability to wave-shine despite having Fox and Falco as your mains in Melee

3) Your ability to Kirbycide, but only in Melee

4) Your techniques including basic techniques like comboing and juggling (but no edgeguarding?)

5) Your inability to jab lock - which should be easy

6) You finding Melee annoying

7) You claim Sonic Classic Collection to be your first game - did you own Sonic Mega Collection Plus later?

8) You having I R Seeing You - but I don't believe you visit the IRC often

And by the way, it's competent, not compatent/competant. Fugu dev 23:57, 28 November 2012 (EST)


 * 1) That was out of nowhere, I was playing Samus and I suddenly saw her slide big.


 * 2) I forgot to put wave-shine, 'cuz I didn't know much about it til now.


 * 3) Kirby can only Kirbycide in Melee.


 * 4) I forgot to put edgeguarding on there (I've been edgeguarding since I began SSB).


 * 5) Also forgot (and it is easy).


 * 6) Sometimes it doesn't respond right away (it's not the controller).


 * 7) I ended up having the newer (DS) version before I got the older (PS2) version.


 * 8) I only visit IRC when I'm brawling someone. Smash  Master   15:51, 29 November 2012 (EST)


 * That was out of nowhere, I was playing Samus and I suddenly daw her slide big.
 * Guess you haven't mastered the technique then, seeing as you have only done it once, and did it unintentionally.


 * I forgot to put wave-shine, 'cuz I didn't know much about it til now.
 * Waveshining takes many hours of practice to master. I seriously doubt you've mastered this, especially since you just learned about it recently.


 * Kirby can only Kirbycide in Melee.
 * He still can in brawl; swallowing still works. Just no throw kirbycides.


 * Sometimes it doesn't respond right away (it's not the controller).
 * It's either the controller or the player. If its not the controller, its bad tech skill.


 * Do you know what the word "mastered" means? It means you can do a technique flawlessly and consistently, not do it just once or doing so accidentally. Overall it seems that the "Techniques I have mastered" Page is just a section that you fill with advanced technique you see, read about or hear. You likely write them down to make it look like you are skilled player. To be honest, all the signs indicate the opposite. Many of the techniques you list have nothing to do with your mains, further taking away plausibility. Vertical spacing is a Marth exclusive technique and a pretty useless 1 if you ask me. Kirby can't DACUS (well he can, but slides no distance). Looking at the videos OT sent me, you don't shield at all, much less perfect shield. Also I see no attempts from you to DI, SDI or momentum cancel. Given this poor display of tech skill, I have reason to doubt your ability to play a technical Fox/Falco. Actions speak louder than words. Why continue to insist you are a skilled player when OT has clearly proved the opposite by utterly destroying you?-- Brian Don't try me!Falco.gif 16:28, 29 November 2012 (EST)


 * What video? Anyway, I am bad online. I have pulled them off offline. Smash  Master   16:36, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * One more thing, the Brawl controlles are much better. Smash  Master   16:37, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * I'd just like to say that if he wants to inflate his skill, then let him. It doesn't matter that much. I can put "I am better than Isai at SSB64" on my userpage, but that won't make it true. Except if it is a policy violation, everyone is entitled to say what they want on their userpage, even if it's lies, trash, and complete ripoffs of parts of other userpages. His complete arrogance and utter immaturity should not concern you all as much as it does. If you ignore him, he'll probably stop adding things like this to get attention. Air   Conditioner  AC.png has a soul of rubber 17:06, 29 November 2012 (EST)
 * What you said is true, I'm not trying to get attention, I'm just telling my skill. I don't lie about myself, I just hate it when they say I am not competent. Smash  Master   17:12, 29 November 2012 (EST)

A note
Hi, I noticed a specific behavior of yours that directly leads to your recurring conflict with other users. I made edit summaries about it, but I figure I should tell you directly.

Mainly, you have a tendency to construe anything negative with the most remote connection to you as a direct personal attack on you, where you then get overly defensive about it and then proceed to instigate conflict. This can be be observed in the history of Kirby's SSBB article. Here, Brian made a cleanup edit while criticising the state of the article in the edit summary. You proceeded to angrily revert Brian's edit, taking Brian's comment on the article (an article that is just of the character you main that you made some minor edits to here and there) as a direct attack on you. While you did undo your revert, you still got defensive over the article and proceeded to fight Brian over his edits to the article until I stepped in and told you to cut it out. Another example would be when I put some "pro tips" on my userpage, short tidbits of advice for Wiki users aspiring to become competitive. You took one of them as an attack on you, and proceeded to again get angry and defensive over it, feeling the need to state that it's wrong, instigating the latest conflict. Now yes you are an example of a player the tip is about, however you are not the only player I've played who exhibited the behavior the tip is about, and it's something in general I've criticised others previously for before, mainly for the lack of sportsmanship the attitude displays. So tone down this behavior, it'll only continue to set up future unnecessary conflicts, not everything is about you.

Another thing about the whole skill thing. Users on here don't harp on you because you merely claim to be competent, several users on the Wiki claim to be better than they actually are (whether jokingly or seriously). Why do they make a fuss about you but not them? Because they don't try claiming to be better than others while having nothing to back it up. This is something that applies to anything in general; people don't like it when someone claims to be better than others while available evidence says otherwise. In the case of the Wiki, users got especially overzealous about this, as you tried putting yourself as better than the only player on the Wiki who can be considered a pro, who users on here tend to look up to when it comes to brawling. Even ignoring the results of our wifi brawls, this was putting a huge target on yourself and garnered negative attention from others, setting yourself up to be a favored mocking target. Then when you factor the result of the wifi brawls, your continued insistence on lag being the reason you didn't win, your general attitude/behavior, and yeah...you can see why others are unwilling to believe you are even just competent, and love to mock/criticise you. As the old adage goes "show, don't tell". If you just want to be merely seen as competent, trying to up yourself over the best player here through your userpage and claiming to have mastered any technique you heard of is a horrible way to go about it. Users here would be a lot more willing to believe you're competent if you tone this down (significantly), weren't so loud about it, and followed that adage I just gave. If you instead want to be seen as the best player on here, the only way users will buy it at all is if you definitely backed it up (which you can even admit, you've done absolutely none of).

(A note to others: Yes I'm aware it's bad form to edit a talk page while it's protected, but this is something that hasn't been addressed, and I feel it would be best to do it now while it's still relevant and while others would unable to jump in and dogpile.) Omega   Tyrant   03:26, 30 November 2012 (EST)