Template talk:Infobox Character

Suggestion
Can we change the "Tier" part (for character in Brawl & Melee) to two different rows, one being "Tier position (SSBM)" and the other "Tier position (SSBB)", for example? B AL τʀο [  talk  ] 23:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No, because this is for articles like Mario (SSBM) or Mario (SSBB), not Mario. Miles ( talk)   23:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess that makes sense. B AL τʀο [  talk  ] 05:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Head icons
I absolutely dislike them and would suggest that they be omitted from this template. There is no particular benefit, from my perspective, to including them, and it serves to clutter the infobox unnecessarily. Miles ( talk)  16:41, 12 February 2011 (EST)
 * Do you have a better idea of how to display them in articles? Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The SMASH-GINEER 16:49, 12 February 2011 (EST)
 * Do we need to display them at all? If so, they could go in a row of the infobox of their own toward the bottom, like "In-game icon" or something like that.  They just seem to clutter the top.   Miles ( talk)   16:50, 12 February 2011 (EST)

I'm not really that bothered either way. I included them because Toomai asked, but they're easily snipped (or moved - but not to a row by themselves. My second-preference on where to put them would be beside the series symbol) with no residue if need be. - Reboot (talk) 17:50, 12 February 2011 (EST)
 * I just wanted them separated from the other images, because they seem to really clutter up the infobox if they're in with the other images. Miles ( talk)   11:45, 13 February 2011 (EST)

I hate to bring this up after all this time, but we have a new issue about head icons: The mobile site. The current implementation uses a hard coded CSS position and float: left; that goes waaaay off screen on phones, causing an annoying horizontal scroll. Why don't we make a table row with all the head icons?: Sorry I am not good at wikitext, so it sucks.

Easyaspi314 (talk) 21:44, 20 June 2016 (EDT)

"Alternate version" field
I'm not sure we should have a field for listing clones. While being a clone may be infobox-worthy, clone-ness is rather disputed outside of SSBM to the point where saying it in the article would be clearer. In any case, labelling the field "Alternate version" is misleading as "Clone of" would be the expected title. Toomai Glittershine Da Bomb 21:48, 27 February 2011 (EST)

It shouldn't be in at all. Saying so and so is a "clone/semi-clone" of a character isn't necessary, and listing a character as so in the infobox is passing it off as a fact, when it is far too disputed to be so. Omega  Tyrant   23:44, 27 February 2011 (EST)


 * It's not for clones per se - I wouldn't link Captain Falcon to Ganondorf, for instance - but for literal alternate versions, i.e., Mario/Dr. Mario and Link/Young Link/Toon Link. - Reboot (talk) 00:29, 28 February 2011 (EST)
 * Uh, I wouldn't consider Toon Link an "alternate version/clone", and as such, a reason why we don't need this. It's not informative, it's heavily subjective, and in the case of the Melee clones, it's already mentioned in their articles. And as mentioned before, it isn't necessary. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:20, 28 February 2011 (EST)
 * There's also the fact that with every Brawl character and most of Melee's it's not going to be used anyway. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:22, 28 February 2011 (EST)
 * Although it's mentioned in their articles and is not necessary it would be of great convenience to the wiki, wiki visitors and the smash community to have them listed instead of having to go to separate character articles to find whether they're a clone or not.-- Shaun's Wiji Dodo  talk  [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif ]] 01:34, 28 February 2011 (EST)
 * It's often mentioned right in the beginning of the articles, and people wouldn't have to go to separate character articles to get this minor piece of information. That doesn't address however, that it is not really informative, very few characters would make use of it (and none in Brawl), and most of all, it is far too subjective. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 01:47, 28 February 2011 (EST)


 * Take out the movesets for a minute. I'm not talking about how they PLAY - whether they're a moveset clone or not is entirely incidental (yeah, they tend to be, but if Samus & Zero Suit Samus got separate character slots in a Smash Bros. 4 I would list them for that game as alternate versions rather than alternate forms, as they are in Brawl, despite them in no way being moveset clones of one another). This is about whether they're the same character who has multiple character slots in a game (again, as if Samus/ZSS had separate character slots). And by that measure, Link & Toon Link in Brawl, Link & Young Link in Melee and Mario & Dr. Mario in Melee are definitely alternate versions of one another and should be linked to each other in the infobox. And isn't subjective at all since it's right there in the character name!
 * And as for "not used in many articles", the shareslot= field is used in only four articles [Pokémon Trainer (SSBB), Charizard (SSBB), Ivysaur (SSBB) & Squirtle (SSBB)]. This would be used in six [Mario (SSBM), Dr. Mario (SSBM), Link (SSBM), Young Link (SSBM), Link (SSBB) and Toon Link (SSBB)], and - more importantly - unused fields are hidden, meaning it doesn't really matter how many articles it appears on since it only exists on those six articles. - Reboot (talk) 10:44, 28 February 2011 (EST)
 * Firstly, Link and Toon Link aren't the "same character" (as both Smash Bros. characters and as Legend of Zelda characters) nor are they "alternate versions", so no they will not be using this infobox slot. For the Pokemon Trainer, relevant information about this is right in the intro, repeated throughout the relevant articles, and even in the picture of the Pokemon Trainer, so I see no need for this there (not to mention how painfully obvious it is). For Mario and Dr. Mario, no they do not need this. The same with Link and Young Link. Saying they're "alternate forms" isn't informative, relevant, nor necessary.


 * As for linking, all these articles are already linked together, so there's no use linking them again in the same articles.


 * And what is it supposed to be informing us of? These characters are clones? Why then that falls on to subjectivity and everything else mentioned earlier. Are you saying these characters are "the same character" in their respective universe? Well then that information doesn't belong in the smasher articles as it is not relevant to how the characters are in Smash.


 * Most importantly, you have not explained how this would be useful/relevant/necessary, and the fact remains it is being only possibly used by a very small minority of characters. While the unused slots don't appear, I considered consistency in the Wiki something we should aim for, and having an unnecessary infobox slot I don't see any use for that will only be used by a very small minority is not something to disrupt consistency with.


 * And tone it down with your edit summaries. Along with the insulting of other users, the ALL CAPS is obnoxious and unnecessary. Just because users on the Wiki challenge something you're trying to implement is not something to get worked up over. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 11:34, 28 February 2011 (EST)


 * Slot sharing is infobox-worthy because it's a piece of important gameplay-based info (e.g. which characters share high scores), and just because it's mentioned in the article doesn't mean it doesn't belong (e.g. tier position is in both the infobox and in the article). But "alternate version" as you're trying to sell it is not infobox-worthy, and here's why - the articles where this template is used are the articles about the characters in a completely Smash Bros.-only context. If Ike were replaced with Roy and the moveset and physics were unchanged, then all we'd have to do in the Ike (SSBB) article would be to change the name and a few other things, with most of it being left intact. In the end it doesn't actually really matter who the character is - it could be a faceless drone or something, since the articles are about their movesets and how they play (in addition to their SSE role and trivia). This would be more relevant in Infobox Character General, though even then its usefulness would be disputed. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Bold 13:13, 28 February 2011 (EST)

Two questions...

 * 1) For Melee fighters, would it be at all possible to include their PAL Tier List positions and their Brazilian Tier List positions in this Infobox?


 * 1) For the original 64 game and Melee, is it possible to modify some characters' Series symbols to match their original appearances on those games? For the Mario series characters, for instance, the Mushroom was initially slightly flatter and had no spots.

Just curious.

ReiDemon 21:07, 4 October 2011 (EDT)

"Stats"
I'm wondering whether we should add "statistics" to the infoboxes (weight, falling speed, etc) to character articles (I'm putting this proposal here because I can think of no other place). Normally I would do this myself, but I'm wondering whether Toomai or anyone else has ideas for neat-looking tables or other formats. And then there's the matter of how to integrate some issues.


 * 1) Have it in the Infobox. This would have seperate portions of the infobox show different statistics. These statistics would naturally be placed near the tier position box. Advantages: Easy to view, won't disrupt the article, seems natural to put such info there. Disadvantages: Will make the infobox very large.
 * 2) Have it in its own section, paragraph form. This would, rather than have stats be placed in a table, have a section written out that details the statistics of the character. Advantages: would allow qualitative info along with quantitative info. Disadvantages: would take up more space, would take more time to read.
 * 3) Have it in its own section, table form. This is pretty easy to imagine. It would have a table that includes both absolute and relative data on character statistics. Advantages: concise, aesthetic, would allow for some nice looking formats. Disadvantages: Difficult to edit, some kinds of data may need clarification that might be difficult to implement into a table.
 * 4) Do not have statistics mentioned in article. Can't think of any advantages, and lack of info is a clear disadvantage, but I'm leaving this here just because we should have a complete range of options.

Mr.  Anon  talk  00:38, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 * I would support the "as a table" idea, since the data is useful, large infoboxes are generally bad, and data shouldn't be in paragraph form. However, we lack a lot of SSB64 data, and some of the data we have doesn't have a known meaning either. It can be done, but the SSB64 articles will be thinner for it. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Yoshi 08:01, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 * I too would go with the table. It's more sensible to have the data with the rest of the information about the character, than to cram it all in the infobox. And that clarification disadvantage isn't a real disadvantage. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:21, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 * I also support the table form, but I had to include possible disadvantages to make the choices balanced. Mr.  Anon MatchupUnknown.png talk   13:37, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 * There's no need to make the choices appear balanced. The Wiki makes no attempt to make Ganondorf appear balanced with Snake, make no attempt to make an obviously inferior option more balanced with a superior one. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 13:58, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Unless Toomai has an idea for a cool-looking infobox, I'll create a test one tomorrow. Mr.  Anon  talk  23:41, 19 January 2012 (EST)

Update for SSB4
Something about the recent change to work on SSB4 character pages is not working, as can be seen on Bowser (SSB4). Could someone try and figure out the problem? Miles ( talk)  12:34, 11 June 2013 (EDT)
 * Fixed, an input was wrong. Toomai Glittershine [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Victorious 12:46, 11 June 2013 (EDT)

Might as well point this out in this already created section; SSB4 Characters don't have their Final Smashes listed as part of the template. Probably should when SSBB characters do. ♡ FirstaLasto ♥ 04:01, 10 July 2014 (EDT)

Should major alternate costumes be placed in the top infobox instead of being lost in the gallery?
I’m talking about Ike, Wario, Cloud, Bayonetta, Isabelle, Olimar/Alph (only on the fighter pages though), and the genderswaps specifically. For example, instead of Cloud’s Advent Children being lost inside of the gallery section, it would be inside of the infobox, directly under his default costume, under a new image2 template placed directly under the default. The same applies to all other characters listed. Now, what would define a “major” alternate costume, you might ask? It completely depends on how many costumes that costume has. For example, Wario with Overalls qualifies as a major Alternate costume because it makes up half of his alts. However, Meta Ridley does not, as he only makes up two out of the eight. Alph is a major Alternate costume, but the Koopalings are not because they don’t have costumes of their own. The only stumbling block is that Wireframe Mac might fully qualify as a major alternate costume in Smash 4, but not in Ultimate. However, as Overalls Wario fully qualifies as a major alternate costume, the same should be applied to SSB4 Wireframe Mac. Lou Cena (talk) 02:30, 3 February 2019 (EST)

Using Corrin as an example here. However, Female Corrin would go right underneath Nale Corrin instead of being on his right, and the symbol shouldn’t be displaced (I have no idea why it is): Lou Cena (talk) 04:41, 3 February 2019 (EST)

Caption
Would it be okay to add  parameter for  and  pages? I'd like to make it consistent with Infobox Character General where caption is under universe symbol. Superbound (talk) 02:55, February 18, 2021 (EST)

Having The Head Icons Change Depending On Which Alternate Costume The User Is Viewing
For characters who have two or more images that can display, the head icon on the top should change to match the current tab the user is on. It would be a neat visual detail to show the user what the icon looks like for each alt. For images that display multiple characters, it should display all applicable head icons. Diddy Kongstar (talk) 00:36, November 20, 2021 (EST)
 * The tabs for the images use an independent template called Tabber, which is separate from the Infobox template -- that is, the Infobox has no idea what is in the Tabber, what tab is selected, nor of its existence. The Tabber template code would need to be directly integrated into the Infobox. I attempted to do this but I had to change how the icon is displayed in the first place, and even then it either shifted the costume image around, was offset depending on how high the tabs stacked (which is dependent on tab title length and possibly device and font), or a combination of both. --CanvasK (talk) 07:40, November 20, 2021 (EST)

Alternate form?
I was curious as for what the "Alternate form" field is doing there. If it was for transformations, then wouldn't the shareslot field cover it. To my knowledge, no page uses the "Alternate form" field, so I wanted to know what it was for. Diddy Kongstar (talk) 20:22, July 19, 2022 (EDT)
 * I think it was being used for characters that could become other characters but couldn't be directly selected from the CSS; which to my knowledge only applies to Melee Sheik and Brawl ZSS. Both can still be selected by holding certain buttons though. I'm not sure there needs to be a separate template argument for that.
 * Looking through the revisions, it was originally added in 2011 then removed a couple months later because the intended purpose was deemed unnecessary (it appears it was used in a couple infoboxes but not removed when it was removed from the template). It was readded a few months later with no discussion and ZSS's infobox was updated with it and was removed in 2018; Melee Sheik also had it removed around the same time. --CanvasK (talk) 21:43, July 19, 2022 (EDT)

Have Echo Fighters use he shareslot parameter or a new parameter.
Since Echo Fighters and Mii Fighters can share a slot upon player choice, I think it should be listed in the infobox like transformations and Mii Fighters in Smash 4. The feature isn't very documented, with the only pages mentioning the option being the Clone page, the Character selection screen page, and the Mii Fighter (SSBU) in a small line. This is what makes the difference between an Echo Fighter and a standard clone as they even share the same fighter number as their parent. Thoughts? Diddy Kongstar (talk) 22:38, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Characters share a slot because of gameplay, not because of the character selection screen. The Mii Fighters and Echo Fighters are different characters outright. There is a unique exception since, in Smash 4, the Mii Fighters share a slot regardless, but they are nonetheless different fighters. Aidan,  the Rurouni  22:43, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * I'm gonna oppose, mainly due to one word you said: can. From what the documentation states the "shareslot" parameter is used "for Pokémon Trainer and his Pokémon & Pyra and Mythra." This parameter does is for characters that, despite being separate, will always share the same slot on the CSS. Echoes, on the other hand, doesn't always share a slot on the CSS since you can set it as so (not to mention, I believe that's the default) so I see this as superfluous. Just because a feature isn't well documented doesn't mean we have to force it into places where it's arguably unnecessary. Cookies CnC Signature.png Creme  22:47, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * In addition to what was mentioned above, it furthermore looks very clunky and serves no real purpose other than adding additional bloat. Oppose as well. Toad.png  Omega Toad,  the Toad Warrior.  (I'm the best!)  22:51, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Then what's the point of having both shareslot and altform if they share the same purpose? I wouldn't really call the Echo Fighters different characters outright since they are clones and even acknowledged as basically being an extra version of a character. Diddy Kongstar (talk) 23:11, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * "Then what's the point of having both shareslot and altform if they share the same purpose?"
 * My guess is because shareslot and altform are still addressing two minute, yet different things. "shareslot" is for characters that, despite being the same character, you can choose who can start the match. On the other hand, for "altform" you can't choose the character on the CSS but instead must hold a specific button in order for the character to appear at the start of the match. Admittedly, they are rather small and I could see an argument for combining these parameters.
 * "I wouldn't really call the Echo Fighters different characters outright since they are clones and even acknowledged as basically being an extra version of a character."
 * Even if, the fact that echoes have different Classic Mode routes shows they are at least still considered different characters in the game despite being glorified alts in normal gameplay. Cookies CnC Signature.png Creme  23:18, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * "the fact that echoes have different Classic Mode routes shows they are at least still considered different characters in the game despite being glorified alts in normal gameplay"
 * That is admittedly a very small reason. Just by the fact the game gives them the same number as their parent unlike other clones just makes it more obvious that they're technically a part of the character and "don't count" when counting every fighter by number. Diddy Kongstar (talk) 23:30, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Fair, but this is getting a bit off topic on what's being discussed here. The point is that echoes, whether they are considered the same character or not by the game, do not always share the same slot on the CSS, and making a special parameter just for characters that "can" share a slot is superfluous. Cookies CnC Signature.png Creme  23:35, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * It is a function in the game and makes echoes share a slot much like transformation characters or Mii Fighters in Smash 4. Diddy Kongstar (talk) 23:44, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Yet, they aren't like the transformation characters or Smash 4 Miis because you're choosing whether you want them stacked or not. Adding them to "shareslot" or "altform" is inaccurate, and making a separate parameter specifically for a stacked menu is unnecessary because it only happens in certain circumstances. Cookies CnC Signature.png Creme  00:04, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
 * Oppose - The feature is already mentioned in three pages already. I think this is sufficient documentation, it's not like this feature is going under the radar and needs to be mentioned on the character pages as well.--Meester Tweester (talk) 23:53, July 22, 2022 (EDT)
 * Support - It's not defaulted to on, but it's still an option in the game, and I don't see how it hurts anything to add it to the infobox. Alternatively an echofighter parameter could be added to the infobox. Stuart98 (talk) 01:06, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
 * It hurts to add it because it looks cluttered and terrible (just like the actual stacking function) when it has to specify that it's an option (which takes up multiple lines on mobile), and calls too much attention to something not very notable or popularly used by either Nintendo or the competitive community, regardless of if it uses the shareslot parameter or a theoretical echofighter parameter. This feature is well documented on other pages already (one of which is linked on all of the ledes for the echoes), it doesn't need more. 68.4.176.97 05:14, July 27, 2022 (EDT)

Oppose. Stacking echo fighters doesn't mean they share the same slot. It's still 2 separate slots, just crammed into the space of one slot. Sharing a slot implies you can switch between them, which you can't.  Alex the  Weeb  07:39, July 23, 2022 (EDT)

Strong Oppose. Stacking echo fighters just isn't notable enough to be given this much attention. Hell, they didn't even show the stacked CSS until the game leaked. Even outside of Nintendo, I rarely see anybody use this feature, either in real life or in videos, because half of the echoes are competitively different characters and nobody wants to press a different button than every other character to select Lucina, Chrom, or Ken. I would also prefer there not be any conflation with the infobox slots used for transformation characters. As for the alt form slot, I'd be fine just getting rid of it altogether since the share slot fills the same purpose. 68.4.176.97 02:32, July 27, 2022 (EDT)

I think this has reached a consensus of not having an echo parameter nor putting them in the shareslot parameter. Both supporters have kind of samey arguments, while 5-6 opposed, half of whom seem to have different reasons for opposition. Also, to Diddy Kongstar, I'm noticing an editing pattern of you adding bloat related to echoes/clones from you (such as adding disambiguations at the top of all clone-related pages in 2020, or trying to add echo stacking as an infobox parameter 3 times before even attempting to get a discussion) and the bloat patterns are honestly a little concerning. 68.4.176.97 17:32, July 28, 2022 (EDT)
 * The edits in 2020 were to provide consistency with other pages as many other pages such as Luigi (SSB) and the Melee clones had those disambiguations before. I didn't think the parameter was a big deal and a consensus never works. It either gets completely ignored or it immediately gets shot down. Diddy Kongstar 22:27, July 30, 2022 (EDT)