Forum:Get rid of all competitive navigation templates?

This is something that has been mentioned before, but was never decided upon. Competitive nav templates (such as Template:Ccsc) serve very little purpose and their grouping is usually loosely based on location of the tournament, crew, etc. We have already decided that individual smashers don't belong on these, but I would like to be rid of them completely. Serpent   King   20:18, 27 February 2016 (EST)

Support

 * 1) I obviously support. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   20:18, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * 2) I'd be fine with dropping most of them, but I think we could/should keep the ones for various tourney series. (ex. here or here) Bacon  Master BaconMasterSig.png 20:29, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * 3) drop every one except for tournament ones. PoultrysigSSB4.png Poultry PoultrysigSSBM.png( talk ) the Pumpkin Pie 20:49, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * 4) Do this asap Those templates annoy me to no end. Disaster Flare  DisasterFlareValentineSig.png  (talk)  20:55, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * 5) I don't have a stance on this, but support per everyone else. Ganonmew,  The Lovingly Evil Clone  21:34, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * 6) Support for every template on deletion. I saw the Ccsc template on 's page when I edited it, and obviously thought it was unnecessary since that day. I'm glad the others are getting deleted as well. --BeepYouSignature.png BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk)  15:19, 2 March 2016 (EST)
 * 7) Support per everyone else. And don't worry BaconMaster, the tournament series templates are different from these ones, so those are safe.  John  John3637881 Signature.png  PK SMAAAASH!!  15:24, 2 March 2016 (EST)
 * 8) I support, but we shouldn't delete tournament navigation templates like Apex or TGC. -- Ethan [[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]] ( Discussion ) 15:28, 2 March 2016 (EST)
 * 9) Like with most other Wiki proposals, I arrived too late, and my opinion has basically already been summed up by others. But whatever, I still support. -- Meat Ball  104  MB104Pic2.jpg 16:59, 2 March 2016 (EST)

Comments
For me it depends on one basic question: if you're trying to navigate between competitive Smash topics, how is the most practical way to do it? Let's say someone wanted to look at, say, a) SoCal Smasher pages, b) SoCal tournament pages, and c) SoCal Power Rankings. Right now, the best way to do that is to use multiple categories, which is workable but not necessarily as intuitive as a nav template. On the other hand, as I mentioned in the linked discussion in the OP, the issue becomes deciding notability requirements for a nav template and making sure it doesn't get filled with bloat. It's a tricky call. Miles ( talk)   20:46, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * Would you at least call it reasonable to drop crews out of the templates? Serpent  SKSig.png  King   20:53, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * I suppose. That's kind of not my area of concern here. Miles ( talk)   21:35, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * To me, all these things are are annoyances. They get in the way when trying to delete pages, and they constantly have to be updated (but never are) Serpent  SKSig.png  King   21:37, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * What I will agree with is that the current system is sloppy and inconsistent. However, before trashing the concept completely, I feel like it's worthwhile to consider the benefits of improving the system instead. For example, here's a sloppy mockup I threw together:


 * I figure this is the kind of thing that should be considered. Miles ( talk)   22:02, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * Ok but we would then need to draw a firm line on what gets a nav template and what doesn't. Less notable groups are bound to have more out of date content, so these should be for only the most notable of groups. Serpent  SKSig.png  King   22:28, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * Agreed, which is why I used a notable and active region like SoCal as an example. In the same way there's a clear delineation between "regional" and "national" tournaments, I figure it would be possible to specify what qualifies a region's scene as notable and substantial enough to warrant a template. I'm not the right person to make the call of where to draw the line, but I could see it working out if done that way. Miles ( talk)   22:31, 27 February 2016 (EST)

Ok then let's do this: We'll have discussion on each template (or I guess in some cases, groups of templates). (my sig has to go somewhere so...) Serpent    King   22:45, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * I don't like the idea of including smashers in a competitive template. The rules for getting included onto the template are going to be arbitrary in some way, and I can see non-notable people either putting themselves or their friends on frequently.  John  John3637881 Signature.png  PK SMAAAASH!!  00:40, 28 February 2016 (EST)
 * Besides that, why should you be on the template for a tournament even if you didn't participate in that tournament? It just doesn't make sense. I think we can do without the template. A page called "Southern California Competitive Smash Scene" would be better imo.  John  John3637881 Signature.png  PK SMAAAASH!!  15:17, 2 March 2016 (EST)

Why are we supposed to make a template for SoCal? -- Ethan  ( Discussion ) 12:40, 2 March 2016 (EST)
 * SoCal is one of the biggest and toughest regions in Brawl and SSB4, alongside the Tristate Area, with the former featuring players like, , and . Penro ...that's all. PenroDarkPitHead.png PenroZSSHead.png 15:11, 2 March 2016 (EST)
 * So is this based on notability or is SoCal an exception? -- Ethan [[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]] ( Discussion ) 17:24, 2 March 2016 (EST)

Can I add template:KTAR to "Templates that are safe from deletion"? -- Ethan  ( Discussion ) 14:28, 8 March 2016 (EST)
 * can i add some templates that i would like to see added? PoultrysigSSB4.png Poultry PoultrysigSSBM.png( talk ) the Pumpkin Pie 18:35, 10 March 2016 (EST)
 * i will do it anyway PoultrysigSSB4.png Poultry PoultrysigSSBM.png( talk ) the Pumpkin Pie 19:52, 10 March 2016 (EST)

I'm late on this, but I have to say this was a great call. Those templates were always tremendously annoying when I would handle unnotable players, while providing little value and not having any sort of upkeep whatsoever. I'm not sure why I never actually tried getting them formally removed before.

Regarding easing navigation between subjects of a single region, I always intended to make articles about each Smash region, that covered its history, its subregions, its players, its tournaments, and its power rankings, though it was something I never got around to actually implementing. These articles would probably suffer from upkeep issues as well like most competitive-related things here, though unlike a template, such issues would be self-contained and wouldn't affect the rest of the wiki beyond maybe the occasional single unneeded red link that could be easily removed. Omega  Tyrant   10:40, 15 April 2016 (EDT)

Templates that should be newly created

 * Template:Tipped Off

Templates that are safe from deletion
These templates are safe from deletion, but may need alterations to fit the higher notability standards.
 * Template:Apex
 * Template:Zenith
 * Template:PAX
 * Template:RoM
 * Template:BEAST
 * Template:CEO
 * Template:DVDA
 * Template:ESL
 * Template:EVO
 * Template:GOML
 * Template:FC
 * Template:Forte
 * Template:GENESIS
 * Template:KTAR
 * Template:MLG - probably could do with some cleanup.
 * Template:Paragon
 * Template:Pound
 * Template:TGC
 * Template:The Big House
 * Template:Umebura
 * Template:Kings of Cali
 * Template:Shots Fired
 * Template:Smash Summit
 * Template:SKTAR
 * Template:WHOBO

Templates that should be deleted
These templates may be deleted due to their scope having complete lack of notability.
 * Template:Ccsc
 * Template:Aussmash
 * Template:Sgsc
 * Template:RaF

Discussion
Are we least all in agreement that these should all get the boot? Serpent   King   23:01, 27 February 2016 (EST)
 * Yeah, those four can be removed any day. I support deletion.  John  John3637881 Signature.png  PK SMAAAASH!!  00:40, 28 February 2016 (EST)
 * On the fence about Australia, since it covers the scene of an entire country, but support deletion of all others. Nyargleblargle.png Nyargle blargle'''  (Contribs) 18:10, 28 February 2016 (EST)
 * Support! --BeepYouSignature.png BeepYou, a user with no grammar at all :v (talk)  17:20, 2 March 2016 (EST)

Is there anyone else who thinks that Aussmash shouls exist? Serpent   King   14:18, 8 March 2016 (EST)
 * I think that one should go too, in all honesty. I don't see much of a reason to keep it. Disaster Flare  Disaster Flare signature image.png  (talk)  14:19, 8 March 2016 (EST)