Forum:Is this game really more balanced than Brawl?

I often hear Melee player who hate brawl say "OMG Brawl nerfed Fox and MK is so cheap". While both of these are through, the statement is misleading. While many characters that were good in Melee were nerfed in Brawl, their nerfs were not that bad. This is compared to Kirby's nerf from smash 64 to Melee. Also consider that in Melee, because of really cheap wavedashing and L-Cancelling, Fox, Sheik, C. Falcon, Falco etc dominate, while Kirby, Ness, Pichu, Mewtwo and Bowser are so bad they are unplayable. Opinions? Mr. Anon (talk) 23:38, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Melee is not necesarily more balanced then Brawl, there are dominating and unplayable characters in both games. Dr. Pain 99 (talk) 23:58, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like using terms like "cheap" and "broken", but I do agree that Brawl is more balanced than Melee. Meta Knight and Snake are better in Brawl than Fox and the rest of the top tiers were in Melee, but Ganondorf in Brawl is certainly better than Pichu, Kirby, and Mewtwo were in Melee. There are more viable characters in Brawl than there were in Melee in my opinion. Also, L-canceling I would not consider "cheap" by any means. Every character could use it and it helped slower characters such as Bowser and Ganondorf more than the faster characters. L-canceling did balance things more but when it comes to how the characters compare to each other, I say Brawl is more balance than Melee was. Omega Tyrant [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 00:04, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do either of you know the difference between the words than and then? Than is used for comparison (as in comparative statements), and then's use is as a [usually non-specific] time marker or with a sequence of events. This is a Wiki, not MySpace, so grammar is of major importance, especially if you want readers of your posts to understand what your points! Try to keep this in mind.  BNK [ E 01:49, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know the difference. Sorry for my ignorance. Dr. Pain 99 (talk) 01:52, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do know the difference between "then" and "than". As I can see, I made two mistakes of the two as I really didn't put too much input into this post so you shouldn't be directing your post at me. You shouldn't be complaining that my grammar is bad because it is not and just because I made a couple of non intentional grammar mistakes doesn't mean that my post is unreadable. If you want to see horrible grammar, go to Meta Knight's talk page. Don't ever accuse me of treating this Wiki like MySpace just because I inputted "e" between "th" and "y" accidentally a couple of times. Omega Tyrant [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 02:03, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is grammar even the most important thing in the world on a talk page? I think we should worry more about grammar on our main pages. Dr. Pain 99 (talk) 02:07, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, but some people are strict with English and can't read incorrect grammar. It still should be correct. I know you're using an i-pod, but that's a small excuse.--Megatron1 (talk) 02:09, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll pay better attention in the future. Dr. Pain 99 (talk) 03:20, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mewtwo is not useless, he can be good if used defensivly so don't call him useless or the other characters useless. I just think that Melee is more balanced because of Meta Knight. Doc King (talk) 17:48, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do you keep on saying that we said "Mewtwo is useless" when nobody did. While he is not "useless", he is one of the worst designed characters in any of the Smash Games. Yes the developers screwed up with his weight. Yes they did screwed up his speed and other statistics. I did wanted to see him brought back in Brawl so the developers could give him the proper statistics. But you can't say a characters who has so many major flaws is good. Mewtwo in Melee was arguably the easiest character to KO in any of the SSB games. Any character who is so large yet so light and floaty is going to find major problems in their survivability. While I can respect someone's opinion that Melee is more balanced than Brawl if they gave an argument with proper reasoning as I would expect them to respect mine, I can't respect your opinion if the only reason you can give for Brawl being less balanced is "Meta Knight is broken". Is that really the only reason you can give for Brawl being less balanced?. I gave a proper argument and your only counter argument is "Meta Knight is broken"? Well I got news for you, Meta Knight is not "broken", he is most certainly beatable. I have beaten people controlling Meta Knight before, other people have beaten Meta Knight before, professionals have beaten other professionals using Meta Knight before. Mew2King, who is considered the best Brawl smasher in the world and has what is considered the best Meta Knight in the world, has been defeated as Meta Knight before. One particular smasher named Ally has defeated Mew2King's Meta Knight on multiple occasions. As you can see, Meta Knight is not broken. In order for Meta Knight to be truly "broken", he would have to better than every other character at everything, but guess what, he's not. If he was so "broken", how come his matchup average is 60/40? A character who is truly "broken" should have a matchup average around 75/25. If you truly want to see a character that was banned from tournaments for being too good, see Akuma in Street Fighter II Turbo. Just because you don't like a particular tactic or character does not mean they are "cheap" or "broken".


 * Maybe this wall of text was unnecessary, but I'm tired of hearing "Meta Knight is broken" and Brawl is less balanced than Melee because "Meta Knight is broken". Now before your next post, stop accusing us of saying things we didn't say and if you truly do believe that Melee is more balanced, come up with a proper argument instead of just "Meta Knight is broken". Also while you're at it, start making constructive edits to the mainspace, especially if you want other users to respect your opinions around here. Omega Tyrant [[Image: TyranitarMS.png | 25px]] 03:19, June 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess ur right, Meta is not broken. He can be beaten with snake, wario, and kirby. Plus he's very light, laggy moves, and short range. Doc King (talk) 13:45, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * While Meta Knight isn't broken, his attacks are far from being laggy or having short reach. The only attacks in his arsenal that doesn't have low start-up lag is his forward smash and Dimensional Cape while Dimensional Cape is his only attack with long ending lag. When it comes to his reach, it is far from being short, especially for a character of his size. I won't get into all of his attacks, but his forward smash and down smash both have long horizontal reach, especially if you compare his down smash to other down smashes. Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 13:54, June 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * So basically Meta's only legit weakness is that he can be KO'D pretty easy? Doc King (talk) 14:22, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * He can also have difficultly KOing if his down smash is stale and he can't get the opponent off the edge. Also, not all of his attacks have great reach. But in the end, he really doesn't have much flaws and is the best character, though he isn't good enough to be considered "broken". Omega   Tyrant  [[Image: TyranitarMS.png|25px ]] 14:35, June 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also Meta lacks some techiques that the other characters have like wall jumping and crawling. He also has poor air speed (unless if you glide). Doc King (talk) 18:13, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I can solve this with mirror match. Both games stand on their own. If you could combined all the characters into one game and/or created a new fighting game you'd want to make it dynamic and balanced for sales/gameplay. -Max Elite