Talk:Alternate costume (SSBU)/Archive 4

Greninja's Alts may have origins
Greninja's pink costume resembles Lickitung. Greninja's black costume somewhat resembles a shiny Greninja, but with a yellow underside of the face and stomach, and an orange tongue. Greninja's green costume somewhat resembles Kecleon. Greninja's grey costume resembles the color palette of the Gameboy. Greninja's purple costume resembles Haunter. 75.70.247.220 20:22, 24 December 2018 (EST) Callistowo

You should note that the Pokémon in question are based on their tongues. I also believe that his red and blue color is based on Crawdaunt, who is a fellow Water/Dark type Shawksta (talk) 04:31, 25 December 2018 (EST)

Daisy's pink costume
So there's been a bit of back and forth on whether Daisy's pink costume resembles Peach, with the page currently including a comment that it does not. I think we should probably come to a consensus about this, since it hasn't been thoroughly discussed to my knowledge.

Here are the points for and against it being a reference:

For:
 * Similar shade of pink
 * Darker pink trim toward the bottom and around the waist
 * Gold trim around the top layer

Against:
 * Orange shoes (rather than pink)
 * Purple gems (rather than blue)
 * Fades into darker pink near the bottom

There's basically equal points for and against, but I'm inclined to believe it was intentionally meant to look like her. Rosalina's pink costume is said to resemble Peach despite having differently-colored shoes and gems, and Daisy's pink costume matches Peach closer than Rosalina's does. What do you think? DryKirby64 (talk) 22:21, 22 December 2018 (EST)


 * I honestly think Daisy's pinkish alt has nothing to do with Peach. Looking closely, the shade on Daisy's pink alt is a more reddish, more like salmon or light crimson, with dress accents that are clearly red. Peach's pink is a lot more bubblegum pink, with rose pink accents. I'd go as far to say that Daisy's "pink" alt would've been a red alt if it weren't for the other red one with black accents. Arend (talk) 15:25, 23 December 2018 (EST)


 * I cannot locate the specific citation, but in a Famitsu column Sakurai went into how he oversees the implementation of characters in Smash, and one of the important things he emphasized is that he does not want players to be confused with who they are playing on screen. He specifically talked about character silhouettes, with every character looking distinct, but I think this principle is reflected in the selection of colors as well. For playable characters that inherently look similar to one another, I think they avoid including alts that would make them look like one another. In Smash 64 and Melee, Mario and Luigi physically looked very similar and had comparable properties, and to impart as little confusion as possible, Mario lacks a Luigi-inspired* alt and Luigi lacks a Mario one. This type of implementation is reflected in every Smash Bros. game, including Ultimate. For example, if they weren’t worried about imparting confusion, they likely would not have removed Peach's Daisy alt or Samus' Dark Samus alt. They likely would not have removed Marth's Roy alt or changed Fox’s Wolf alt.** The only exception I can think of is with Pit in Ultimate, in which the black wings of his “fallen angel” costume were restored and make him look more similar to Dark Pit as a consequence. I don’t know why they did this – in Smash 4 they gave Pit white wings for the alt to avoid confusion – but that is the only outlier I can think of among ~500 costumes.
 * For this particular case, I think people will ultimately go back-and-forth with what they consider is a “similar” shade of pink. Personally, I do not think the shade is very comparable to Peach and it is the most critical component for the two to have in common if the developers wanted to be invocative of her. If they wanted the alt to look like her, why would they have changed the shade at all? Why didn’t they give her the same gems? I think it’s because they specifically did not want the alt to look like Peach and I would not suggest that it is in the article.
 * Nearly all of Rosalina's alts resemble Peach's, and certainly intentional, as Smash 4 was the first game where costumes were not restricted by team battles and they likely wanted to encourage situations where people on the same team chose the same color for certain battles. DK and Diddy have similar color schemes between them, for example. But even then, they avoided giving similar-looking characters alts that resembled one another. For the pink alt of Rosalina, I don't think confusing her for Peach is as big of a problem as it would be for Daisy because: A.) Rosalina is much bigger than Peach, whereas Daisy is almost the exact same size as her. B.) Rosalina is accompanied by Luma: an omnipresent, monotone, and vibrant blotch on the screen with nothing comparable in Peach’s design. C.) They do not any moves or animations in common.
 * (*)To be clear, I know Mario’s alt is attributed to Luigi’s appearance in the arcade Mario Bros., but that does not look like Luigi’s current default appearance in Smash Bros.
 * (**)Despite what the article currently implies, I would not say Fox’s eighth color “resembles Wolf” because – to me – it looks like the developers changes the alt specifically to look less like Wolf.Nintendo101 (talk) 12:27, 24 December 2018 (EST)
 * Mario and Luigi both have Waluigi alts too.  Voqéo T  12:38, 24 December 2018 (EST)
 * Yeah, but they were both introduced in Brawl and Smash 4, when the characters were better differentiated physically and mechanically. Nintendo101 (talk) 12:46, 24 December 2018 (EST)

Dark Samus's Black costume
I believe there is an inconsistency with the current "Origin" of Dark Samus's Black Alt Color. Currently, the description of the Black suit is listed as "Resembles Orange Phazon from Metroid Prime." Although the original editor of this fact may have been on to something, they needed to go just a little bit further into the Lore of Metroid Prime to find the real origin.

Dark Samus's Black Alt color is actually a reference to the creature, Metroid Prime. Metroid Prime was the final boss in "Metroid Prime" for the Nintendo Game Cube. During Phase One, Samus would fight Metroid Prime in its spider-like physical form. This form was Black with Orange accent coloring. The accent coloring would change during the fight to Red, White, Purple, and back to Orange, depending on what type of weapon Metroid Prime was using during the Phase One fight. The Black and Orange color exactly matches Dark Samus's Alt color. That and the fact that Dark Samus was born from a fusion of Metroid Prime, Phazon energy and Samus's DNA along with her Phazon Armor, as shown in the Secret 100% ending cinematic for Metroid Prime. Please see the following link for reference information regarding this fact. https://www.metroidwiki.org/wiki/Metroid_Prime_(specimen)


 * (don't forget to sign your comments on talk pages, with --~ )


 * I presume you're referring to these two pieces of artwork? If so, then yes: I suppose I can see the similarity there. It's also worth noting that the concept art cited as inspiration for Dark Samus's silver costume happens to use the same (or a very similar) color scheme as another piece of Metroid Prime concept art, which would support your arguemnt.


 * However, I will point out that this specific black/orange color palette is never actually used in-game. The Metroid Prime's "default" color scheme appears to be black/silver, as seen in the Metroid Prime's intro cutscene and in its Brawl trophy. During the battle, it switches to yellow, white, red, and/or purple, but never orange. As I said, we are already citing concept art for the silver costume, so it doesn't hurt your argument too much, but it does mean that this color scheme (existing only in artwork, not in-game) is a little more obscure than the in-game Orange Phazon. --PeabodySam (talk) 11:30, 24 December 2018 (EST)

Incineroar, Sheik, Marth, and other costumes
I know the page currently lists Big the Cat as the inspiration for Incineroar's purple alt, but I'm seeing some edit reverting previous claims. Many costumes in Smash Ultimate have major value changes, and they're almost always based on something. Not only are Incineroar and Big both felines, but The Big the Cat spirit fight uses this alt as well. Also, if some comments are disputing the Infernape connection due to the grey fur, shouldn't we do the same for its shiny alt? I mean, both greys are much darker than the actual shiny coloration.

Sheiks last alt is most certainly based on Tetra.

Marth's alt is very similar to Camus, and the Camus spirit fight uses this alt as well.

King K. Rool's white alt heavily resembles Lord Fredrick from Tropical Freeze, see its spirit fight.

Mewtwo's green/yellow alt bears a strong resemblence to it's original shiny coloration in Gold/Silver.

Charizard's Yellow alt resembles Dragonite as well, see its spirit fight.

Is Sonic's black alt not based on Shadow? Luigi86101 (talk) 23:20, 24 December 2018 (EST)


 * Spirit Battles can certainly conextualize plausibility for certain alts, but I would strongly advice that we don’t use Spirit Battles as explicit evidence of inspiration, especially since the alts were created independently of their useage in Spirit Battles. Many of them were introduced in previous games. If the purple Incineroar is based on Big because of the Spirit Battles, than surely the black Dr. Mario is based on Hal Emmerich, Ridley is based on Medeus, K. Rool is based on the Imprisoned etc. I agree that Chrom’s yellow alt looks like Owaine because it resembles him and is of reasonable plausibility, not because it is used for his Spirit Battle. It was determined that Sheik’s eighth alt does not resemble Tetra well enough when it was introduced in Smash 4 (and - if we are going by your line of reasoning - the blue Toon Link alt is based on Tetra because that is the costume used for Tetra’s Spirit Battle, not Sheik. Shadow has a similar issue where they don’t use Sonic’s black alt for that battle.) The white K. Rool is too derivative from Lord Frederick, and the yellow Charizard likely would have blue wing membranes if it was directly based on Dragonite. The only thing shared between Sonic’s black alt and Shadow is that their both black. Literally nothing else is shared. Yada yada yada. Nintendo101 (talk) 02:02, 25 December 2018 (EST)


 * Incineroar's alt and Big the Cat look much more similar than the other spirit battles you mentioned, and that wasn't the original reason anyway, just a supporting detail. I'm not using spirit battles as a sole explanation for some alts, just as a reference since some spirit battles' character alts could legitimately be the character they were originally based on. Charizard's yellow alt's wing membranes are blue enough to be Dragonite if the purple and grey alt's are purple enough to be Zubat and Aerodactyl respectively. Two of ROB's alts being based on glitch enemies from Gyromite are much more of a stretch then some of the ones I mentioned, and the yellow one doesn't even look like ROB's alt. But yeah, I can see how Sheik's isn't Tetra and Sonic's isn't Shadow. And I said that Marth's is Camus, not that Chrom's is Owain (that one's already mentioned on the page). Luigi86101 (talk) 23:01, 26 December 2018 (EST)


 * K Rool’s white in my opinion is either KAckle, the skeleton with the blue bandana, or a reference to the super long guide in Tropical Freeze that is white with a blue tie.


 * Also in my opinion, Incineroar’s black and Grey is Mightyena, especially since hyena’s are apparently closer to cats than dogs Shawksta (talk) 04:28, 25 December 2018 (EST)


 * Feel free to disagree, but while Incineroar’s Black costume is described on the oage as a partial reversal of it’s default costume (which is not wrong), is it possible that it could also be a reference to Incineroar’s first form, Litten? I sorta see a resemblance but would like a second opinion. 82.132.216.174 20:25, 13 January 2019 (EST)

-

Bowser's pink alt is almost certainly based off of Bowletta from Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.

Captain Falcon's green alt resembles the Wild Goose, his gold alt the Golden Fox. His cyan alt resembles Rick Wheeler, his successor.

Dr. Mario's red, blue, green, and yellow alts represent the 4 viruses in his games; the first three being the colors of real nurses, doctors, and surgeons could simply be coincidental.

Falco's pink alt references Katt Monroe, his implied romantic interest.

Fox's orange alt is based on Falco's earlier outfits.

Ganondorf's violet alt could represent Yuga from A Link Between Worlds, his white skin possibly representing Ganon.

Ice Climbers's green/yellow alt resembles some of the vegetables from their game.

Luigi's blue alt seems to resemble his appearance in an obscure Japanese-only TV show, his yellow art representing his Atari XE model.

Marth's red and green alts reference Cain and Abel.

Mewtwo's brown alt could reference its original in-game appearance due to the Game Boy's limited colors, with its pink alt referencing early art.

Mr. Game & Watch's red, green, and blue alts could reference later Game & Watch models that could represent these three colors along with purple (which is obviously not an alt).

Peach's gold alt represents the rather aptly named Gold Peach, and the black alt could represent the Shadow Queen from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, with some creative liberties for each of course.

Samus's black alt could reference Kanden from Metroid Prime: Hunters.

Sheik's white alt is almost certainly based on Impa.

Young Link's pink, blue, and orange alts could simply represent Breath of the Wild's dye system, although this is a loose connection. --Grapevine (talk) 19:36, 25 December 2018 (EST)
 * Pretty sure that Aaronitmar speculates more than we do, and also gets information from us. And a lot of those "could be" statements don't exactly go well with us. Aidan,  the Festive Rurouni  19:41, 25 December 2018 (EST)


 * I was the one who originally proposed that Samus's black alt could reference Kanden. I'm also the one who later removed it from the main page (but after Aaronitmar made his video). Why? Because it was brought to my attention that Kanden's Spirit Battle uses Samus's green alt instead. I have no idea why the developers did this (the black alt definitely is a closer match than the green alt), but it would raise the question of why they wouldn't use a Kanden-themed alt for a Kanden Spirit Battle... and the only answer that makes sense is that the alt simply wasn't based on Kanden in the first place, and the resemblance to Kanden is only a coincidence. Therefore, I removed it.


 * On the topic of Kanden and Big the Cat, I tried to start a discussion about how much weight Spirit Battles should have in supporting/deconfirming alternate costume sources. Unfortunately, the talk page was getting too long and the discussion was archived before anyone replied. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:53, 25 December 2018 (EST)


 * Yeah he speculates a lot, but the Gold Peach one seems like the actual origin of Peach's gold alt. Luigi86101 (talk) 23:06, 26 December 2018 (EST)


 * Aidan is right. As specified by our policy, we should be conservative with alts and shouldn’t assign references just because it “could” be plausible. Attributions should be obvious, objectively plausible, or explicitly stated by the developers. I don’t think the Gold Peach attribution makes sense because there is already ways in the game for the game for characters to become entirely gold, such as on Golden Plains or with Xerneas. Plus, Peach’s alt is yellow, not gold. They are different shades of color. I think it’s more reasonable to think they just gave Peach a yellow gown because it looks nice. And for the record, there is no “green” Virus in the Dr. Mario games. Nintendo101 (talk) 13:03, 27 December 2018 (EST)


 * I'm not the same person who said there were green viruses in Dr. Mario. And plus, the "yellow" is clearly gold, at least by the Mario games' standards. They're called gold coins, not yellow coins. The yellow alt also has a clear luster that the other alts don't have. If you're going to claim to only choose alts that obviously or objectively reference certain things, then remove the Charizard being Aerodactyl and ROB being a random glitch enemy from Gyromite and add this one, a gold colored peach literally being based off of gold Peach. Couldn't be more obvious, especially with some of the thing that are supposed references on this page. Luigi86101 (talk) 13:24, 27 December 2018 (EST)


 * I've seen this "yellow" outfit in-game, and it's gold, just like the artwork. --Tailikku (talk) 00:01, 22 January 2019 (EST)


 * I'm a bit late here, but with Gold Peach being introduced in Super Mario Party (as a form every character can take, no less), I doubt it's a specific reference. The development timelines don't sync up, given that Super Mario Party is only referenced in Ultimate through post-launch updates. More than likely, it's a gold color purely for the sake of being a gold color. DryKirby64 (talk) 22:02, 29 December 2018 (EST)


 * Are we not going to mention the crafted world Yoshi alt from a game that's not even released yet then? Luigi86101 (talk) 20:32, 1 January 2019 (EST)


 * Sorry for late response, was away. While I had not noticed that policy on SmashWiki "not being speculative", you can't exactly blame me considering you guys literally listed the Big the Cat meme lmao. These are just as speculative, if less speculative, than many of the other listings already on the wiki, so I assumed they were fine as a result. --Grapevine (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2019 (EST)

Richter's black costume
The black costume is supposed to ressembles Alucard ( black + yellow ) and not the end credits of Dracula X. Brian Jones (talk) 15:34, 28 December 2018 (EST)Brian Jones
 * I can see where you're coming from. His headband is white in the Dracula X ending, so it seems like that'd also be the case in the alt if it was supposed to be referencing that. Someone previously mentioned that the red alt's trousers and boots match Juste more than Christopher, which I'd also agree with. --Master Foot (talk) 15:45, 29 December 2018 (EST)

No, Incineroar's purple alt is not based on Big the Cat.
It's not.

I know you want to think it is. I know you want to believe that Sakurai or whoever is in charge of alts is hip with the internet memes and just wants to reference Sonic. Or that it only exists so that the Spirit battle can exist. But that's not what it is. A lot of Smash characters have purple color schemes and it just so happens that this one can work with a Big the Cat spirit battle. That's all it is.

If you're going to say Incineroar's alts resemble things, I would base it on the theory that they're based on Japanese pro wrestlers. There's no real evidence for it, but it makes more sense and is no more baseless than the alternative. Otherwise, just leave it blank, until a developer comments "Yes, it definitely is based on Big the ****ing Cat." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.180.66.9 (talk • contribs) 11:30 EST


 * I question why you think it's based on a meme. It is objectively similar to Big the Cat's coloration, and I'm not saying this because of a stupid "meme". If we're using this logic, Luigi's purple alt isn't based off of that one "meme" character, Waluigi. All of these alternate costume origins are simply possibilities and resemblances, otherwise we would have very few origins based on official confirmations. Just because it's from a different series doesn't mean it's not a possibility. There's no reason to not include possible resemblances just because you refuse to believe it. Is Pit's white alt not based on putto because it's not from a game? There are resemblances mentioned here that are much more of a stretch, look at Incineroar's alt and then look at Big the Cat. If you still refuse that they're similar based on their coloration, I don't know what to say. Luigi86101 (talk) 20:31, 1 January 2019 (EST)

Seriously? They went out of their way to make his fur white on his face and for the palm to be the color of his gloves... do you REALLY think that it's not a Big the Cat reference? I'm not trying to be mean but you have to be seriously dense to think it isn't. Kingdom64 (talk) 21:34, 15 January 2019 (EST)

Find Mii colors
On the Smash 4 page the Find Mii colors are also added. Does Find Mii work the same way in this game, and if so, should we be checking that? kenniky 14:23, 7 January 2019 (EST)

Zelda's "Blue" Alternate Colour origin
Currently the origin for Zelda's "Blue" alt colour is the original appearance of Princess Zelda when you have the "Blue Ring" equpped in the original "The Legend of Zelda", using as reference. I'd like propose that it bears a more striking resemblance to Zelda's initial outfit in the opening section of "A Link to The Past". (References: and .) Given this Zelda is based of the one from "A Link Between Worlds" and "A Link to The Past" it makes sense to me that they'd use an alt from the previous game, especially considering the overall design of both Zeldas is almost identical. 

Arguments: To defend myself against the current description; The "Red" alt is a lot more obvious (with it's tint on the robes and especially the change in hair colour) the "Blue" alt is not, and most prominently, does not feature the change in hair colour presented in the "Red" alt, which you'd have no reason to eliminate where it from the same source, I believe. With the reference presented for the "Blue" alt you could almost as easily say the "White" alt belongs to it. I'm afraid this might strike as lazy, as it appeared to me.

In summary: The point in favour of my argument lies mostly on the hair and robe colour which much closely resemble the references shown above rather than those currently shown on the page. Please inform me of anything I might be missing.

Sorzero3 (talk) / 21:25, 7 January 2019 (EST)

Related: Zelda's dark alt could be a reference to Hilda.

Bowser's orange alt costume and Pit's yellow alt costume
bowser's orange costume resembles giga bowser

pit's yellow color vaguely resembles his appearence in the Captain N comics and TV show

Ike's Young blue color
The blue is most likely a reference to Ike's mother Elena rather than to Sigurd, as Sigurd has no affiliation with Ike. HoyhoyImYaboi (talk) 02:05, 8 January 2019 (EST)

Dark Samus's alts reference Gundam?
Three of Dark Samus's alts strongly resemble connected Gundam units from the Mobile Suit Gundam series:

Dark Samus's Grey alternate costume strongly resembles the RX-0 Unicorn Gundam from Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn.

Dark Samus's Black alternate costume strongly resembles the RX-0 Unicorn Gundam 02 Banshee from Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn.

Dark Samus's Yellow alternate costume strongly resembles the RX-0 Unicorn Gundam 03 Phenex from Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn and Mobile Suit Gundam Narrative.

How noteworthy do y'all think it is? I think it is given there's precedent set with the "Mass-produced Samus" alt that's been in all the games and is a confirmed reference to Gundam. The existing resemblances in the article are very reasonable though save for the black alt - I think it's a stretch to say it's based on Orange Phazon. Rmkar9 (talk) 18:39, 9 January 2019 (EST)

Isabelle's Purple Alt
Isabelle's purple alt is likely a reference to the seamstress Sable. They have the same purple check pattern, and her skirt is the same color as Sable's quills. StarNavigator (talk) 16:15, 13 January 2019 (EST)
 * Also, her green alt uses the same shirt color as Tom Nook's sweater vest starting in New Leaf. The skirt is similar to his pants, but it's hard to tell if it's a gray like his. En Passant (talk) 01:16, 18 January 2019 (EST)

Is it me, or does Incineroar's black costume match the colors of Salandit?
Could Incineroar's black costume be based of Salandit? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 00:38, 14 January 2019 (EST)
 * bump? ¿¡Unowninator?! (talk) 15:55, 14 January 2019 (EST)
 * Bump. Also, someone mentioned this before, but his black & red skin matches Litten. Wazzup111 (talk)

Pichu does not have 'male and female alts'
In the opening paragraph of the page, Pichu is listed as one of the characters with male and female variants, with Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, etc., but none of Pichu's alts are explicitly male, so I believe it should be removed from this section. Acarr39 (talk) 14:57, 1 February 2019 (EST)
 * Technically the "Goggles" alt is male because the Pikachu in Brawl/4 that had them is male, but that probably delves into speculation too much.
 * Rocket1908 (talk) 19:37, 1 February 2019 (EST)
 * It probably would. Spiky-Eared Pichu is at least confirmed female, as it could only be female in Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver, but I don't believe any of the other costumes have confirmed genders. — Small portrait lyon fe08.png Xamad (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2019 (EST)

The Richter Belmont Color Confusion
I'm back, and with my return, I bring back the same argument as to what Richter's alternate colors truly reference. Please actually read the evidence I have here instead of just saying "Yeah, but, it's obv this because this one color matches." If it's just one color, it could be a vague reference or even a huge stretch, though it obviously depends on the scenario. Please use the wiki's Richter costume line up image AND/OR these close-up images of the Alts. for reference when reading if you need to. Open up the images presented in the article in a new tab so that you are not flipping from multiple pages. It definitely gets annoying. Without further ado, Let's'a Go:

1. Richter's default costume: Again, do I even need to say it?

2. Richter's 2nd costume: Red shirt, White edges on shirt, Black Undershirt, White Gloves, White pants, Black boots. I said, before, that this could not have been Christopher Belmont or the rival from the cancelled Bloodletting. What I saw, however, was a reference to Juste Belmont. I said it was because of the fact that Juste Belmont's character has been depicted as wearing a Red shirt with White edges, Black undershirt, White gloves, White Pants, and Black Boots. The part that got me to believe it was Juste is the color of the boots. I said, "When so many of Richter's alternate costumes change the color of the boots, why wouldn't the color change to light brown to reference Christopher in Rebirth or the rival from Bloodletting? The fact that they are Black boots in particular sells me on it being Juste Belmont." I am still confident in my evidence for it being Juste, though now I do believe that it could also be a reference, vague or otherwise, to Christopher Belmont, even though Christopher is nowhere to be found in Ultimate, and Richter's red alt. is used for Juste's Spirits fight.

3. Richter's 3rd costume: Purple shirt, Greenish-grey Undershirt, White gloves, Black pants, and Yellow Purple and Black boots. Before the HD pictures of Richter's Alts were posted to the wiki, I, as well as many others believed that this was a reference to the 32X sprite of Richter from the unreleased Castlevania game. Though a HUGE stretch with NO evidence to support it, it was the best we could come up with. Scrolling over Richter's undershirt with a color-grabbing tool reveals that his undershirt is a faded out green color. This green, coupled with his purple tunic, white gloves, and boots with yellow on them, match nothing else in Castlevania except for Shaft, the priest who cursed Richter after Rondo of Blood. Though this could still be a stretch, there is definitely more evidence going for this than the 32X sprite, which, mind you, never had an ounce of Purple, Yellow, or Green.

4. Richter's 4th costume: Green shirt, Gold edges on shirt, Normal undershirt, Grey pants, and Dark-Brown boots with Light Brown coverings. This costume is clearly a reference to Maria Renard as she appeared in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, where she wears a Green tunic with Golden-colored cuffs. She also wore socks that are greyish-white and shoes that are light brown in color. These colors, almost directly correlating to those seen on Richter's green Alt. The other reference, which I am warming up to, is that of the Curse effect from Rondo of Blood and Dracula X, where Richter's Tunic turns green, and his boots are still light brown. Though if were referencing the curse effect, what is with the golden outlines on the tunic? 5. Richter's 5th costume: Yellow shirt, Brown edges on shirt, Red undershirt, Blue pants, Brown boots. This is the one many people cannot seem to digest properly, so I'll make it easy to understand. This Alt. references TWO Castlevania protagonists, BUT it references one MORE than the other. It references John Morris, with the red headband, and POSSIBLY the yellow tunic. HOWEVER! The Alt. more so references Julius Belmont than John, in that Julius is seen wearing a RED neckerchief (seen on Richter with his red undershirt), a yellow shirt (seen on Richter with his yellow tunic), a brown coat with dark-brown buttons (seen on Richter with his tunic having brown outlines and dark-brown buttons), blue jeans (seen on Richter with his blue jeans), and brown boots (seen on Richter with his boots now having brown vamp coverings). This should clear it all up; It is referencing TWO people :^) 6. Richter's 6th costume: Blue shirt, White edges and insides of shirt, White undershirt, White pants, Brown boots with Blue around the ankles and Tan flaps. This is still extremely obvious. It is referencing Richter's appearance in the official artwork of Symphony of the Night and even his appearance in the Dracula X Chronicles. Once again, clarifications do not and should not have to be made.

7. Richter's 7th costume: Blackish shirt, Gold edges on shirt, Grey undershirt, Dark Grey pants, Dark Brown boots with white around the ankles. The idea that this is based on the ending of Dracula X is growing on me, and was a very clever thought to begin with. Once again, this could be referencing many things, the other major thing this could be referencing is Alucard's Symphony of the Night appearance, especially with the golden edges of Richter's tunic, but it is still very vague.

8. Richter's 8th costume: White shirt, Red edges on shirt, Black undershirt, Black pants, Black boots with White coverings and Tan flaps. Before the final build of the game, this Alt. was just white and black, leading most to assume that is was just Soma Cruz or Alucard, and even now, with the general consensus being that it is Leon Belmont, some still believe it is Soma, because of the white. As I just mentioned, the majority of people, me included, believe that this is a reference to Leon Belmont, because of the Black, long sleeve undershirt with a shirt that is White and has Red on the edges of it. Leon's pants are also Black and striped with white, and his Black boots have Light-Tan flaps and White coverings around the vamps. All of these things are nearly one-to-one with Richter's Alt. meaning that there are no further arguments to be made against this one.

Thank you so much to those who took the time to read my "little" post, and I look forward to healthy debates with anyone who disagrees with anything listed above. 104.136.71.9 17:45, 4 February 2019 (EST) OliviérBaguette, Guest User Extraordinaire


 * Time for me to weigh my two cents on this analysis:

2) Red - Well, even if this outfit is used for Juste, it's also used for Jonathan Morris. Even then, it would still work to call this a Christopher Belmont reference seeing as his most recent appearance in ReBirth has him as what is essentially a red-colored Richter.

3) Purple - I agree wholeheartedly about the costume not being a reference to the 32X project. Shaft is definately a better connection to this which also fitting with the fact that in the games, he shares his Japanese voice with Richter, much like how Robin represents Shaft in the Spirit battle while sharing the English voice.

4) Green - The gold trim is more of a filtered perception, if you were just focusing on the trim isolated from the clothes. But seeing as it seems more green than gold, this being a Maria reference is also a bit of a stretch, so the Curse reference still makes sense since Richter is colored the same way as in the costume. I have seen via Aaronnitmar that it's a reference to Trevor, but the thing is that Trevor doesn't wear green, he wears more of a tawny color, as shown in the Greatest Five Dual Crush. The only time Trevor wears green is when it's the Fake Trevor, who is a zombie impersonating Trevor.

5) Yellow - Hoo boy... Seeing as I'm the person who made the connection, I figured that it was in reference to Johnny because of the bandana, denim, and yellow shirt. As for the re undershit referencing Julius, that's a big stretch since it's just singling out one item out of his whole ensemble.

6) Light Blue - While I can see the connection to the SotN/DXC design, there's a big problem with that... This is how Richter looks in Rondo of Blood/Vampire's Kiss and this is how he looks in SotN. The exact same design. And while one may argue that the artwork is the underlying factor, it's the in-game appearance that should be the underlying factor to this. While DXC is supposed to be a remake of RoB, the fact that it included SotN which has the classic design in it kind of goes against this new design. I still beleive that this is actually a reference to one of his alternate colors from Harmony of Despair, and I should know seeing as I have taken a look at the files for the game; in that game, Richter has most of the same outfits as in SSBU, with a light blue (or rather teal) outfit among his ten costumes.

7) Black - What I think the gold trim here is doing is just to stand out against the black clothing. So it can still work as a reference to the end credits. On top of that, if this was a reference to Alucard, then why is Simon used in the Spirit fight? Simple: Simon references Trevor, like in his Spirit battle, as Alucard has been associated more with Trevor than with Richter, despite how popular SotN became.

8) White - No denying it there, it does look like Leon. --Tailikku (talk) 23:02, 5 February 2019 (EST)


 * Right, so I have a couple of rebuttals:

Red - It is true that Richter's red alt. is used in Jonathan Morris' spirit fight and I was unaware of that before. Good eye on you, man. So we could rule spirits out as origin (since you and I both know Jonathan is not the origin; the red shirt is just one point, not enough). As for Christopher, his sprite in ReBirth is the only thing we even get from that game of him, since it's a WiiWare title. Though I do believe that Christopher's sprite may be taken from Richter's sprite, because of the lower leg boot armor thing that Richter had in his Rondo and Dracula X sprite. Regardless, the only two Belmonts to (canonically) wear a red tunic are Juste and Christopher. Since, like I said, ReBirth was just a 2009 WiiWare remake of Adventure, there was not any official art to come out of it, meaning that the only things we have are the in-game and end-game sprites. Both Christopher and Juste have very similar color schemes, the only real difference being that Christopher actually has a headband, and Juste has black shoes. Even if Juste has more of a connection to Richter than Christopher, there are elements from both that are present in Richter's alt.

Green - I agree with you that his green alt. is not a reference to Trevor or even Fake Trevor, and I also agree that it may be referencing the curse effect. However, what I am trying to bring up is the fact that it may not just be referencing the curse effect. Remember the earlier build of Smash Ultimate, where most of Richter's alts. did not have detail? Look at the green alt. Now THAT'S the curse effect, and it almost looks like they pulled the color from Harmony of Despair. What I'm getting at is, I agree that it's the curse effect, but what is with the golden trim of the tunic? They wouldn't just slap details on for nothing, right? The curse effect has the green tunic and the light brown boots, matching two of the three main colors on the Green alt: Green, Gold, and Light-brown. Whereas Maria has those two, plus the gold color on her clothes, the exact same color scheme as the Green alt. Maria Renard, also, is the only character (That I can think of) that has that same color scheme, that is also a main protagonist, and is personally attached to Richter in some way.

Yellow - For my argument over it being more of a reference to Julius than John, you seem to have only picked up that I mentioned Richter's undershirt. I only referenced his undershirt since it is a noticeable change on his render and character model in Smash. I also pointed out several things, like Julius' blue pants, Julius' Brown and Yellow Coat and Shirt color scheme, and the even Brown-er boots on Richter that match Julius'. Our boy Johnny only ever wore denim with yellow once, and it was just for the Japanese magazine that mentioned the game (he also has a blue headband here, which is weird, just sayin'); for the actual game itself, it was either Red Headband, White Shirt, Brown Vest, Black Lapels, Yellow Pants, Brown Boots for his official art in the instruction manual; or Blue Headband, White Shirt, Brown Vest, Red Lapels, and Blue Pants (denim) for all of his in-game sprites. I keep bringing up Julius, since he does not have this much confusion. the only confusion being that his Aria of Sorrow sprite doesn't match his artwork. His Dawn of Sorrow sprites and artwork match, though. I still believe the Yellow alt. is a reference to both these guys.

"Light-Blue" - I could see where you were going with this, but it does not add up. See, there are many instances where in-game sprites do not match the game's artwork; like before I was talking about John Morris. Other such cases would include Shanoa (her in-game sprite used brown hair, while her artwork always depicted her of having jet-black hair), Link from LttP (his sprite had pink hair, but his artwork had light brown hair). A case that happened around the same time as Dracula X and all those other sprites would be the Japanese box-art for Castlevania IV, where Simon was wearing blue armor, even though his in-game sprite had no blue at all. I believe that they never changed Richter's sprite due to either laziness or a nostalgia factor, honestly, nobody knows. What's even weirder, is that they do have a custom sprite of Richter in Symphony that matches his artwork, which can be seen here. Richter's alt. in Smash is not a light blue; when you look at it side by side with his default color, its definitely darker, not by much, though. Harmony of Despair was sort of like a remix to Castlevania, and wouldn't you say that the light blue color for Richter in it was more of a turquoise than a blue? Putting the sprite under a color eye-dropper, it's either R: 40 G: 123 B: 145, R: 33 G: 131 B: 154, or somewhere in-between.

Black - Looking at it, I believe you in that they may have added the gold trim to make it stand out, especially on darker stages where it's already hard to see Richter, but like I said, the fact that it is gold that they added could be a reference they thought of. Again, its more likely than it is to be a stretch. 104.136.71.9 01:37, 6 February 2019 (EST) OliviérBaguette


 * One other thing I forgot about the Chris connection: his artwork in Belmont's Revenge. Take notice of his leggings, they're black much like Richter's boots in this costume. What I think Konami did was that when they remade the Adventure for ReBirth, they made him into a younger version of this artwork. --Tailikku (talk) 08:53, 6 February 2019 (EST)


 * That is very interesting and I've never thought of it that way. I was thinking it was a nod to the comics, which Christopher starred in. Another reason why I believe the Red Alt. is a reference to Juste and not Christopher is because of how neglected he, as a character, is. The only real character development we get from him is from the comics, and even then, the comics weren't popular. Christopher's games never really had a lot of story in them, apart from the dialogue at the end of Belmont's Revenge. He is the only Belmont who did not appear in the Greatest Five move from Portrait of Ruin (neither did Julius, but that was because Julius did not exist at that point in the timeline), and is the only Belmont who does not have a spirit in Smash Ultimate. Even Gabriel Belmont got a spirit, and he's not even canon! Christopher is only barely canon and it makes me sad. He truly is the most neglected Belmont.. 104.136.71.9 16:39, 6 February 2019 (EST) OliviérBaguette
 * Technically speaking, Chris is hard-coded canon as early as day 1, seeing as the Japanese manual for the first game makes mention of the "Legend of Christopher". Now granted, the story could be talking about Trevor, who also has the middle name Christopher, but his tale was 200 years before Simon, whereas "The Legend of Christopher" was 100 years. Even then, considering how his game was on the Game Boy, Chris had an uphill battle to get through which he never really succeeded at in comparison to his ancestor and great-great grandson. It also amazes me that you overlooked Reinhardt with the yellow outfit seeing as he also wears a red scarf, much like Julius, even wearing a yellow tunic under his purple vest, but that's a bit of a stretch as well. --Tailikku (talk) 09:50, 7 February 2019 (EST)
 * I was always looking back at artwork for Reinhardt to find any resemblances. There is nothing else in common with the Yellow Alt. apart from the yellow shirt, so that would make it a stretch. Before comparing the Purple Alt. to Shaft, I compared it to Reinhardt, but found no real relations except the green color. Also I'd say that Reinhardt's vest is more of an Indigo than Purple, if you get what I'm saying. Also, I want to know if you agree with my previous statements on how many of Richter's Alts. could be references to multiple characters, like Red for Juste and Chris, Green for Curse and Maria, Yellow for Julius and John, Black for monochrome ending and possibly Alucard. I want to know if and why YOU SPECIFICALLY think that they are or are not references, especially the Julius argument. You never really specifically explained and gave sufficient evidence towards your belief as to why it is more a reference to John than Julius. You've said before, "As for the red undershirt referencing Julius, that's a big stretch since it's just singling out one item out of his whole ensemble." but I mentioned other colors and provided evidence for them. You didn't answer back to that argument. Plus, the article states that it's based on the artwork for John. Again, c'mon, over Julius'? 104.136.71.9 19:36, 8 February 2019 (EST) OliviérBaguette
 * Since I do not have an active account, and my account is not verified enough to make addendums to the main article, I was wondering if someone credible can read this and make judgement as to whether or not the main article should be edited to better fit the two sides of this argument. In this section, I have stated my case and presented my evidence, none of which has been disproven, just counterclaimed. Four of Richter's colors on the main article are fine but not complete. Me and the person in this section arguing have said that the Red, Yellow, Green, and Black alt. colors are, each, one of two possible references. If I were to edit the article, I would just combine the two claims on each of the four colors, since neither of them can be particularly disproven. If I were to edit the main article, I would have: "Red: Resembles Juste Belmont as he appears in Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance, and can also be a reference to Christopher Belmont, as he appears in the WiiWare remake of Castlevania: The Adventure, titled, Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth."    "Green: Resembles Richter when affected by the Curse Effect. With the gold outlines on Richter's tunic, coupled with the green and light brown, together, can also resemble the color scheme of Maria Renard as she appears in Castlevania: Symphony of The Night."   "Yellow: Resembles Julius Belmont as he appears in Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, and Harmony of Despair. Richter's red headband can be a vague reference to the instruction book artwork of John Morris for Castlevania: Bloodlines."   "Black: Resembles Alucard as he appears in Symphony of The Night. The color scheme of Richter's alt. can also be a vague reference to how he appeared in the end credits to Castlevania: Dracula X."  Thank you so much for giving me the chance to share my opinions, and I hope that the evidence presented from both sides gets put together in a wonderful Symphony. ;)     104.136.71.9 10:25, 2 March 2019 (EST) OliviérBaguette

Agreed with all of these (especially the light blue being a reference to SotN artwork, it's basically 1:1) except for the purple one. It seems like as much of a stretch as saying it's based on the 32X game. If it was a reference to Shaft they would've made it a brighter purple color and given him green highlights, like the red highlights on his white costume or the yellow ones on his black one. And speaking of the black alt, I don't think it's a reference to the DXC ending. If that were the case they would've given him a white bandana, not a black one. Finally, I should point out that the "earlier build of Smash Ultimate" you linked to isn't that, but it's from a fan-made YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cI3vFjcvBA). --Master Foot (talk) 03:58, March 12, 2019 (EDT)
 * On second thought, I'll just agree with the suggested changes that OliviérBaguette posted above. --Master Foot (talk) 09:25, March 15, 2019 (EDT)

Yellow Luigi alt Origin?
Currently, the wiki states that the yellow and green costume for Luigi resembles for the Atari XE version of Mario Bros. Since personally, I don't find the colors to match at all (the only yellow here is the skintone, and the other colors are green and orange/brown), and this seems a bit too obscure of a reference (I mean, whoever heard of an Atari XE before?), I decided to look for other origins. I started with Game & Watch covers since I recently found out Luigi's blue alt actually takes inspiration of Mario's appearance on the boxart of the Game & Watch version of Donkey Kong Jr.

Point is, I found the boxart for the New Widescreen release of Manhole, which features a kid with a yellow t-shirt and cap, and green overalls. This one seemingly matches Luigi's Yellow alt much closer than the Atari XE sprite... but, since Manhole isn't exactly a Mario game, I'm a bit hesitant on adding this to the page. What do you guys think? Arend (talk) 15:40, 1 March 2019 (EST)

Robin Blue Costume
I'm very sure, that the male blue costume doesn't resemble Kris. It's pretty obviously the Grandmaster class of FE Awakening exclusive to Robin and his kids. Kris has blue hair and this costume has Robins "grey" hair. Kris has very diffrent blue color shades. Cedrickterrick (talk) 08:06, 3 March 2019 (EST)

Correct images issue
We have the corrected image for Kirby, Marth, Palutena, ROB, Simon, Villager and Zelda's costumes now. Why are we still using the screencaps from before the game's release? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkkrpg (talk • contribs) 17:29, March 12, 2019 (EDT)

Umm... what are you talking about? All those characters you mentioned had been updated with the raw internal files from the game as early as December 9. Just like everyone else. Arend (talk) 10:05, March 13, 2019 (EDT)

R.O.B.’s “Purple” costume
I believe his purple costume should be named pink, as most of the skin is pink and the stock icon is pink as well. Dab Squad Leader (talk) 14:26, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I don't see any pink in that alt. It's more of a light purple. RandomUltimate (talk) 15:01, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I see it as a light magenta, which, according to Wikipedia, contains the color in ROB's alt. If it was a light purple, it would be more lavender. Aidan,  the Irish Rurouni  15:05, March 14, 2019 (EDT)

So should it be changed? Or will it remain the same? Dab Squad Leader (talk) 15:19, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
 * I support changing it to pink. Aside from the purple highlights, it's very clearly a bubblegum pink. RandomUltimate's monitor settings are probably making it look purple.

Simon's Purple Costume
Even though there are a lot of comments saying that it's based on Cornell, it's a huge stretch. Even a post on the Castlevania Dungeon forums commented on it being a stretch. What I can say is that I have a more definitive source for the costume: the "Here's Fake Simon" graffiti found in Castlevania Chronicles. This isn't even a dummied-out graphic, it can normally be found during playthroughs starting with your 8th as if can be seen in reflective shards of the mirrors found in stage 6. It is actually a clever masking technique as the mirrors are actually revealing parts of a different background layer, and can be seen as early as the first playtrough by disabling layers in an emulator. --Tailikku (talk) 11:35, March 15, 2019 (EDT)
 * I doubt that, considering that the only similarity that sprite has to the alt is the gray hair, only the sprite's hair is a lot darker and there is no purple on the sprite. Regardless, I'm going to leave it anyway because I don't think it's Cornell either (even if the color scheme is a lot closer). --Master Foot (talk) 14:09, March 15, 2019 (EDT)