User talk:Disaster Flare/Sandbox/List of non-gaming media representation

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Homestuck[edit]

If the Kirby anime and Strawberry Flower are listed under "Minor representation" due to not having any major representation, then shouldn't Homestuck be under that category too, since it's only represented with a music track? In fact, shouldn't Dracula be in the "Universes" section instead since the character himself does appear as a boss in Ultimate (a FAR larger role than just a song)? SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 18:00, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

To be honest, I only put Dracula in the "Minor representation" list because I wasn't sure whether it would be considered major or minor. As for lack of consistency in songs, note that Disaster Flare was the one who gave Homestuck a full entry, while Serena Strawberry added Kirby and Strawberry Flower to the minor list. Essentially, the current lack of consistency just boils down to different users simultaneously editing this draft. We'll just have to iron that out before publishing the article by formally deciding what constitutes "major" representation. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:08, April 20, 2020 (EDT)
Ye, I intend to iron this out down the road once we know what exactly should and shouldn't be listed. It'd be difficult constantly trying to sort it when everyone's adding to it at once. Disaster Flare DisasterFlareSignatureImage.png (talk) 21:55, April 20, 2020 (EDT)
Ah, yeah, I put Strawberry Flower and the Kirby anime under there because I thought—from my perspective anyway—anything that's derived from a video game universe would go down there, while original content like Homestuck would go up top. I think Strawberry Flower makes more sense as its own section, though, you're right. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 20:23, April 21, 2020 (EDT)

Mythology[edit]

I brought up this question in my edit summary, but I figured I'd also raise it here on the talk page where it's more likely to spark discussion. Should mythology be listed in this article? We have references to Greek mythology (most of Kid Icarus, the Medusa Head from Castlevania) and Norse mythology (Odin from Final Fantasy), plus more that I'm probably forgetting. I guess mythology can be considered a form of "media" in the same vein as literature, but I'm not sure if it meets the criteria for this page. --PeabodySam (talk) 19:08, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

I personally think mythology is worth a mention, but that's just me. Disaster Flare DisasterFlareSignatureImage.png (talk) 21:55, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

Yume Kōjō '87[edit]

Since Yume Kōjō '87 (an event held by Fuji TV) technically has representation in the form of the Super Mario USA/Bros. 2 stuff (Bob-omb, the Grass item, Mushroom Kingdom II stage, what have you), would it count here? SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 23:35, April 20, 2020 (EDT)

I'm honestly not sure. If I remember correctly, the original main cast (who were replaced by Mario characters in Super Mario Bros. 2) were all licensed characters from Yume Kōjō '87, but everything else (the world, items, enemies, music, etc.) was an original product by Nintendo without any basis in Yume Kōjō '87 canon. So, does it matter that nothing original to Yume Kōjō '87 itself is represented in Smash, or do we simply consider Doki Doki Panic part of the Yume Kōjō '87 media?
A similar question would be about James Bond. The GoldenEye universe, as defined by SmashWiki, is about the N64 game where the Proximity Mine originated from, but that in turn is a licensed game from the James Bond franchise. So, even if the Proximity Mine was originally created by Rare for GoldenEye 007, does its James Bond roots merit mention here?
In both cases, I lean towards "yes, we should mention Yume Kōjō '87/James Bond in this article", but I'm curious to see if anyone will disagree. --PeabodySam (talk) 23:52, April 20, 2020 (EDT)
I also forgot to mention this one: Napoleon Bonaparte, who is the basis of the Game Boy Advance game Napoleon, which has one of its characters appear as a spirit in Ultimate. Considering how the other pieces of media mentioned here are entirely fictional (literature, film, mythos, even music bands), would it be too much of a stretch to add a real person here? SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 00:01, April 21, 2020 (EDT)
Considering Dracula was also based on a real person, I wouldn't call it a stretch to add Bonaparte on here. Aidan, the Rurouni 00:51, April 21, 2020 (EDT)
Sorry for the late reply, but Dracula is a very different case from Bonaparte, as his placement on this list is solely based on the novel rather than the person of inspiration. Napoleon, on the other hand, has nothing to base itself on but the real-life events that occurred during Bonaparte's reign, and events like that don't technically qualify as "media". SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 01:42, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

Splitting anime adaptation from everything else[edit]

I think everyone can see there is a clear difference between the Pokémon anime and Bram Stoker's Dracula. The first is a licensed adaptation of a videogame, the second is a novel written in the XIX century that is now public domain. I think we should make a separate section for anime/cartoon/comic adaptations of video games, and one for public domain literature or mythology. --Rdrfc (talk) 07:04, April 21, 2020 (EDT)

Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 07:24, April 21, 2020 (EDT)
I agree with splitting adaptations (be they anime or whatever else comes up) into their own section. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 20:23, April 21, 2020 (EDT)

Megalovania[edit]

Would Homestuck actually count as a representation considering Megalovania didn't actually originate from there? While the name of the song did, the actual song itself originated from EarthBound: The Halloween Hack under the name Dr. Andonuts's Rage. 001Toad.jpg OmegαToαd64the Best Kαrter 23:15, April 21, 2020 (EDT)

I would count both personally, I just don't really know how to implement the hack. Disaster Flare DisasterFlareSignatureImage.png (talk) 02:19, April 22, 2020 (EDT)

South Park Bad time[edit]

Was that phrase first heard in South Park and did Sakurai intend to reference that show when referencing the line for Toon Link’s down air tip? (I know it predates Sans) 174.55.24.64 00:44, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

You've already been told off about this on about three different talk pages now. Drop it or you will be blocked for disruption. Disaster Flare DisasterFlareSignatureImage.png (talk) 00:48, April 24, 2020 (EDT)
Easy now, Flare. He's just trying to get clarification. He was going about it wrong before but he's at least trying to do the right thing now.
To answer the question, I don't think so. It's true that line has a certain amount of popularity, but the idea that it was 'invented' by a TV show (or anything, really) seems pretty flimsy to me. Perhaps if it was known as the catchphrase of a certain character, then you could make a case, but I don't believe that Cartman has much notability for that line. Black Vulpine of the Furry Nation. Furries make the internets go! :3 00:52, April 24, 2020 (EDT)
As someone who's familiar with that show myself, I can say that the line originates from the ski instructor in the episode "Asspen". The line itself isn't very well-known outside of a small meme that circulated around 2012 and its usage in Undertale, of course. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer (talk) 00:58, April 24, 2020 (EDT)
(edit conflict) Like OmegaToad64 told you, South Park is well-known for its mature humor and thus Nintendo would most not likely reference it. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer (talk) 00:49, April 24, 2020 (EDT)
@Black Vulpine: Fair enough, I should've read into that a little bit more before saying anything, but yes, that's what I had in mind. Disaster Flare DisasterFlareSignatureImage.png (talk) 01:00, April 24, 2020 (EDT)
Time to bring my 2¢ into this: I don't believe we should add a piece of non-gaming media here just because it got a mention in the Smash series, as all it really is is just a throwaway bit that was added for "humor" or "flavor" or whatever reason you may think of and has absolutely no impact whatsoever. Not only would it would be absolute hell to track down every single reference to non-gaming media, some of these references are region-exclusive, meaning one piece of text that references non-gaming media in one region might have completely no references in another (There's a reason why none of the Chronicle-exclusive IPs have entries on the "List of minor universes" page).
There was an entry for Jaws because it was referenced in Piranha Plant's French Boxing Ring title, but I've removed it since. If a series is already represented in Smash through other means (like the Pokémon anime), then maybe I can let it slide, but otherwise, let's not even bother. SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 01:54, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

Megalovania name origin[edit]

I decided to go looking for a conclusive source for the claim that the "Megalovania" name originated from Homestuck, and I stumbled upon Toby Fox's "Making Of" of the Halloween Hack (you can find it here). Taking a look at it, he does comment on his process of making the track, starting with:

Megalovania - This is it, the final boss theme. [...]

This mention of the name dates back to at least November 2008, 5 months before the creation of Homestuck, meaning that it cannot be credited for the creation of the name, and would have to be removed from the page. NokiiSig.png Nokii — 00:44, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

Music in italics or quotes[edit]

From my understanding, a specific song like "The Girl I Left Behind" or "Korobeiniki" is written in quotes, while a composition with multiple movements like Eine kleine Nachtmusik is written in italics. For whatever it's worth, that's how the respective Wikipedia articles format these song titles. However, I could certainly be very wrong about this, so I won't undo SuperSmashTurtles' edit unless this is confirmed to be the case. --PeabodySam (talk) 10:43, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

From what I've seen on Wikipedia, suites like Eine kleine Nachtmusik or Le quattro stagioni are only written in italics because they're non-English titles, and for names in English (such as Symphony No. 9), no italics are used. Single-movement songs like "Korobeiniki" use quotes. When it comes to music in Smash, I typically write the song title in italics (mostly for consistency with the convention the wiki has used since the "SSBBMusicLink" template came about), but for non-Smash songs, I usually use quotes (i.e. "Strong Star Warrior"). I think it's flexible if it's not formal writing, though. ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 16:30, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

Definition of "media"[edit]

Awesomelink234 removed the Comic Sans reference because fonts are not considered media. While I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment, it does raise the question of what else should not be considered media. For example, Napoleon Bonaparte is a historical figure, not a form of media, and Napoleon Bonaparte doesn't seem to be based upon any one particular literary account of Napoleon's life as far as I know; contrast this with Dracula (which serves as the basis of Dracula, instead of the real-life Vlad the Impaler). Ishikawa Goemon seems to be a gray area, where he's apparently a real person who has since become a folk hero... but if Goemon is based on the folk tales, then I think he can stay. If certain real-world subjects (like people or fonts) aren't considered media, should we expand the scope of this article to cover them? I would be perfectly fine restricting this to just media, but let's see what you guys think. --PeabodySam (talk) 14:30, May 3, 2020 (EDT)

Hmm, that's true. People certainly aren't media. I added Goemon on the basis of Napoleon being there, but he's definitely in a gray area of being based on folk tales, whereas Napoleon definitely doesn't seem to belong here (especially since the character represented in Smash is fictional). ~ Serena Strawberry (talk) 16:41, May 3, 2020 (EDT)
I was the one who added the Napoleon section. I was very iffy about whether he belonged on the list, even when Aidan gave it the okay, but I ultimately went with my gut and added it in anyway. You're probably right, though. As I said in an above discussion, the only thing the Napoleon game has itself to base on are real-life events and not any form of literature or any kind of media. SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 17:21, May 3, 2020 (EDT)

ROM Hacking and Strawberry Flower[edit]

Not sure how many people still pay attention to this page, but I might as well give out some thoughts.

Does Rom Hacking really belong here? I get that 95% or so of hacks are not official (and are of dubious legality), but to call the whole thing "non-gaming media" just feels rather inaccurate. I'm pretty sure they still technically qualify as games, just modified versions of already existing ones.

Second, I feel like Strawberry Flower should be moved to the "gaming-related media" section rather than have its own section, as the group was solely created to advertise the Pikmin series and they've only ever done Pikmin-related projects during their whole career.

Now I do know what this edit summary had to say, but if Strawberry Flower can have its own section just for having a couple of songs, then by that logic, so should Kirby: Right Back at Ya!, as a music track technically originated from that anime. Yes, the Sound Test menu doesn't recognize the anime as its origin, but to be fair, the same applies to Strawberry Flower's songs, where they're only mentioned as the copyright holders (except on Tane no Uta for some reason), while the origin games are still recognized as Pikmin or Pikmin 2.

Honestly, James Bond is the only piece of media on here that I feel should have its own infobox, as it's the only one that has been directly acknowledged and considered its very own universe (albeit, only via stuff from GoldenEye 007 for the N64) rather than being lumped in with a different universe with the original source having little to no acknowledgement. (Proof. Note that the light green text says "オリジナル登場は『ゴールデンアイ007』。", which should roughly translate to "The original appearance is "GoldenEye 007".", thus confirming that it is indeed one of the weapons from GoldenEye 007 64)

Anyway, I hope I got my message out as clear as possible. Please feel free to give out some counterarguments if you have any. SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 06:46, June 3, 2020 (EDT)

Should mentions count as representation?[edit]

Asking this because the Palutena's Guidance for Ryu indirectly references Marvel characters, many of which originated in comic books. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer (talk) 22:23, June 5, 2020 (EDT)

Will This be Actual Page[edit]

Hi, I am wondering if this draft will be an actual page. Thegameandwatch (talk) 16:29, June 10, 2020 (EDT)

Yea that's what drafts are about 46.229.158.109 17:13, June 10, 2020 (EDT)
I am asking this because some user pages never get made. Thegameandwatch (talk) 17:15, June 10, 2020 (EDT)
Some user pages are for fun, some are for namespace. If the page is made for namespace, then it's tagged as draft. 46.229.158.109 17:19, June 10, 2020 (EDT)

Dragon ball[edit]

Should dragon ball references in the Min Min video be added? 174.55.24.64 15:01, June 23, 2020 (EDT)

I don't think it counts. 46.229.158.109 15:11, June 23, 2020 (EDT)
Indeed; things on here need to be either directly or indirectly referenced in-game, not as part of a presentation. Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Gamer (talk) 19:21, June 27, 2020 (EDT)

I do not think there are any references to a worthless anime in said video, friend. Just putting my observations out there. JustSomeCloudMain (talk) 20:33, June 27, 2020 (EDT)

"Inspiration" section?[edit]

Right now, the "minor representation" section is split between things that actually have parts of themselves represented in Smash (Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, EarthBound: The Halloween Hack), things that inspired stuff that's in Smash (Dracula, Journey to the West), and stuff that gets kind of alluded to maybe (Star Wars, The Terminator). That's a lot of distinct categories of thing lumped under the same umbrella, and I don't think that's really how this should work. If you want my opinion: split the first two categories into their own sections and axe anything that falls under the third. Ahemtoday (talk) 19:02, July 20, 2020 (EDT)

Not entirely sure about splitting the "actual representation" stuff and the "inspired from" stuff, but the "alluded to" stuff definitely does not fit in with the other two. SmashTurtlesSig1.pngSuperSmashTurtles of the Turtle TribeSmashTurtlesSig2.png 21:21, July 20, 2020 (EDT)