Forum:Is Mario going to rise, drop, or stay in the next Tier list?

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Forums: Index Melee Talk Is Mario going to rise, drop, or stay in the next Tier list?

Will Mario shoot up in the next list, shoot down, or stay the same? You Decide! Doc King (talk) 13:57, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

In conclusion, Mario has rised placement wise and lowered Tier wise. Doc King (talk) 20:51, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

Pointless to edit a forum this old. We also saw that so you don't have to inform us.--MegaTron1XD:p 21:44, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

Mario might shoot up in the next list[edit]

I think Mario might move to high tier at the very most but I think he's gonna move a few spaces higher since Scorpion Master got 2nd place with Mario. This!Doc King (talk) 13:57, July 22, 2010 (UTC) --User was warned for this post

One match doesn't change everything Doc. They give a poll, look at all of the tournaments after their last tier list, and pile it up. I myself think Mario will stay or get lowered.--MegaTron1XD:p 14:03, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Drop -- Murphyshane Don't click here 14:19, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

I think Mario is gonna be higher on the next list. I mean he has a good reflector that can basically destroy Fox and Falco's recovery, can easily chain throw fast fallers with TWO throws and has a finisher throw, he is floaty which helps his recovery and he can't be chain throwed by Peach, he has a wall jump which helps his recovery. He has decent range and has many combos. So I think Mario should and will be higher in the next Tier list for Melee!Doc King (talk) 14:30, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Recovery? It flips them. If not used at the right time, they can still turn around. Floaty is a bad thing, as it lets one get juggled easily. Wall Jumps aren't availble to use in any real stage where it could be useful. He doesn't have a good finisher. He can be edge gaurded easily. That was a local tournament Doc. They barely have an effect. One can win with Pichu in the biggest Melee tourney ever, but they won't raise him that high. They might keep him at the same rank.--MegaTron1XD:p 14:37, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Also, I'm not sure if it was the skill of the Mario player as much as the badness of the Falco player. Falco in that video overspamed dair and blaster, and occasionally forgot to short hop. Sir Anon the great 18:46, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Ok if you think Floaty is a bad thing, then why do you guys have Peach on the top? And Peach can be edge-guarded easily and doesn't have a good finisher, yet u call her good. Mario has good finishers (side smash attack) so why r u guys treating every character like crap except for Peach? Doc King (talk) 14:56, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Floaty is bad, which prevents her from #1 tier. She most certanly can recover, using a simple Peach Bomber to knock you out or just floating back to the stage. She's good in aerial combat. She has turnips. You view Peach as low because you hate her. Never do that for a tier list.--MegaTron1XD:p 15:01, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Well Mario aint that Floaty, he's just floaty enough to get out of upward chain throws. And is floatiness is suck a bad thing, then why is Roy in low tier? Doc King (talk) 15:13, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Being floaty is not necessarily a bad thing. It has both it advantages and disadvantages as does being a fast faller. But in Melee, being on the faster falling side tends to be more advantageous as it grants more speed to your playstyle and gives greater vertical endurance, which being floaty hinders. But a character's falling speed doesn't influence their tier position significantly enough to be considered a reason for the tier position. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 15:20, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Well, once a top tier, always a top tier. Why can't that be the same for Mario? Plus, i've read some of the smashboards comments and they said that Mario should go higher in the next tier list. Doc King (talk) 15:48, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, Mario was never considered top tier and Mario being considered high tier in the past is irrelevant for determining his current tier position. Zelda was once considered high tier, yet anyone today would say she is low or bottom tier. So your argument for Mario being high tier since he was considered high tier in the past fails. Also, some comments on SWF saying Mario should be higher is not valid in proving that Mario is high tier. Now my knowledge on the Melee competitive scene is not great, but from a statistical standpoint, I do not see Mario becoming high tier. Mario lacks outstanding attributes which are crucial for being in the high tier. He also lacks a reliable aerial finisher, has an overall poor recovery, and has poor reach in almost all of his attacks. Mario does have fast attacks and can combo well, but with him lacking in other attributes, I don't see Mario rising more than two spaces at best in the next tier list. There's a reason why Mario's relative tier position has consistently fallen since the first tier list and I highly doubt this trend will be abruptly ended in the next tier list. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 19:06, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Mario may improve if he gets a cool Meteor Smash, like the strong ground pound punch he tried to strike Link with in the movie, Mario's Misunderstanding -- Murphyshane Don't click here 14:43, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Um, your comment is irrelevant to the topic. The topic is about whether or not Mario will rise in the next tier list for Melee, not on how Mario could be improved in the next SSB. Omega Tyrant TyranitarMS.png 14:51, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'm confused, sorry, but I'm not that bright -- Murphyshane Don't click here 13:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Mario for high tier?[edit]

Ok, so once again, S Master won GSG and has dominated with the Super Mario we know. So I think in conclusion, Mario is gonna rise up to high tier! Doc King (talk) 01:35, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

One tournament will not make a character rise to high tier that easily.--MegaTron1XD:p 01:51, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
No, it's actually 2 tournaments Mario has won in, 1 in 2nd place and another in 1st place. Plus note that S Master beat M2K and surprised many ppl at GSG. Doc King (talk) 15:16, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
2nd place isn't winning.--MegaTron1XD:p 15:23, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
But its close to winning and for an almost low tier character, thats really good. Doc King (talk) 19:02, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
Then you are inherently saying that Mario is not going to rise in the next list. If it is considered really good that a character played by the best player at that character in the world wins and comes in second in two local tourneys then that character probably is low tier and is just being played really well by a single good player in a mid level competition. Look at Gimpy with Bowser for comparison. If Scorpion Master continues to play this way at larger, higher level tourneys and other players begin using Mario, then we might see some shift. But it is ludicrous to say that because someone gets two top two finishes with a character that the character is automatically high tier. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 19:28, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
Come on Hawk, give this plumber a chance to show what he is made of! And also, he was a high tier before, so once a high tier, ALWAYS A HIGH TIER!!!!! Doc King (talk) 19:46, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
I am giving him a chance, I'm just saying he hasn't showed it yet. And, the second part of you're statement is hardly any kind of argument. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 23:51, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
HE DID SHOW IT, CHECK HIS VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE!!!!! Doc King (talk) 23:59, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
I watched the videos. Again, this is one player playing very well in a local tourney (and, yes, an impressive friendlies win), but that alone is not enough for a character to leap to the high tiers. Mario might move up a place or too, but for a character to rise, they need more than simply a very good player. That player needs to develop a better metagame for the character that changes the match-ups for the character. See Ken with Marth and Wobbles with the ICs. Maybe Scorpion Master will get it there, but he'll have to show it at higher level competition than local tourneys for it to alter the metagame. Right now, we have a very impressive Mario player, but Gimpy was an incredible Bowser player and even he maintained that Bowser was low tier. Also, stop shouting. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:09, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
So your basically saying that Mario has no chance of becoming high tier again?! Thats stupid! Mario should have a chance to dominate Melee! Doc King (talk) 00:15, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
No, I said there would need to be a metagame changing new strategy with Mario for him to rocket back up the tier list like you are saying. I'm not seeing that right now. If it happens, then by all means Mario should move back up, just like what happened with the Ice Climbers when Wobbling was discovered, or Marth when Ken's strategy became a part of the metagame. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:20, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Wait, did any1 discover boost grabing in Melee? Doc King (talk) 00:34, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
And this has what to do with what? Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 00:55, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
If I discovered it, then Marth goes lower and Fox, Falco, and Sheik go higher! Doc King (talk) 01:00, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
How the hell would Fox go higher? His score may improve, but I'm pretty sure he cant move up. Doctor Pain 99 (CTE) Dp99.png 01:03, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
(edit confict)@Doc: What the heck are you talking about? Discovering a technique means nothing if you don't win big time tourneys with it and have it alter the metagame. I documented (maybe, but probably not, discovered) spring canceling, which has certain uses for Sonic or certain characters playing against Sonic, but it isn't what shifted the metagame for Sonic to move up in the tier list. Just the technique existing is meaningless, unless it is empirically shown to contribute to tournament success. Clarinet Hawk (talk · contributions) 01:10, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Well, he could move into his own tier or something. Doc King (talk) 01:06, August 1, 2010 (UTC)