Editing User talk:162.251.172.162

==Definitive best in the world==
Hey, try to avoid using definitive best in the worlds unless it’s obvious such as MkLeo for Joker or Samsora for Peach. Captain L and Arika have rather comparable Jigglypuff results, especially when the latter was solo Puff. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 11:32, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

:Got it. I wonder how does one become the best in the world with a character? Don't the results and wins play a part in it? Most of the time, I'm just putting the title the best, where it was originally, before the Most Historically Significant Players existed. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 12:48, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>
::The old notable player sections are often outdated, messy, extremely biased, and filled with a lot of fluff, so you shouldn't really go off of them. 
:While results and wins do play a part in the decision, you also need to look into the whole picture. For Captain L, he does have a win over Larry Lurr, but he only used Jigglypuff in the last 2 games, while Larry Lurr used Diddy Kong, a character he doesn't main, for the last game. Furthermore, most of his good placements were actually with Pikachu, as Jigglypuff was used as a sandbag/counterpick character. On the other hand, Arika is a solo-Jigglypuff and has seen rather solid results in Japan, most notably 17th at {{Trn|Umebura Smash 4 Final}}, the highest placement a solo-Jigglypuff has seen at a national, and also has wins over Kome and masashi. As a result, it is kind of hard to say who is actually better, hence why it's less biased to say that both are "one of the best Jigglypuff players in the world."
:On the other hand, you have someone like MkLeo, who is the best player in the world. His Joker helped him win a bunch of majors and supermajors, and no one has matched his achievements so far. With how dominant MkLeo is, it's very silly to note that he's "one of the best" Joker players, which is why iwe say MkLeo is the "best Joker in the world."
:tl;dr, "best in the world" should only be given to those who have clear dominance with a character in a game's lifespan, while "one of the best" is the safer alternative when it's more difficult to decipher due to similar performances. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 13:06, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

:::So if results, wins, and characters that they won with, play a part, does that mean Suarez is the best Yoshi? He has good results and has wins over major players like LeoN, and Light, two of the most dominant players in Ultimate's history. And does that mean that Nery doesn't really deserve his title as the best Isabelle player? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 13:12, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>

::::I don't believe thats how it works, Suarez results dropped after season 1 and there are other Yoshi with comparable results, also why is LeoN most dominant? There are certainly more dominant players than him. As for Nery u should take a look into {{SSBU|Isabelle}}, most other players either secondaries her or mostly play online. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 13:25, August 5, 2021 (EDT)
::::I would say yes for Nery, but Suarez has fallen off a bit since the first season. Also, both Ron and Meme have similar if not better results; the former has wins over Shuton and T while the latter has wins over Maister and Light. 
::::As for LeoN, while he is the best Bowser player in the world, he isn't a really dominant player, especially with his results prior to the pandemic. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 13:30, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

Yes LeoN and Light, aren't as dominant as they were before but they were getting top 10 at least at major tournaments, and the fact that Suarez beat them is an achievement despite them not being as good nowadays. I have another person that should be the best is Shuton with Olimar. He won EVO and isn't EVO the biggest tournament in the world? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 13:35, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>
:Shuton won EVO Japan 2020, which is only the 4th largest ''Ultimate'' tournament so far. Even then, Dabuz consistently places no lower than 9th at most tournaments he attend, even nationals, while Shuton has slightly less consistent placements, especially oversees. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 13:50, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

::Fair point. But what about LeoN and Light? Look at their results, Light has cooled off a bit, but LeoN has been getting top 10 before the pandemic, aside from a 33rd and 25th place, he was dominant. Light has kinda cooled off. I have another question, and this is about the Greatest Of All Time page, should there be a Online section? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 13:56, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>
:::I have no idea where you're pulling the data from LeoN. His S-tier performances were 33rd at Let's Make Big Moves and 25th at Frostbite 2020. His A-tier performance was 13th at Glitch 8 - Missingno. His only other PGR tournament was 13th at Overclocked Ultimate IV. The 1st place at Oasis was in Australia, a weaker region compared to the United States. These results are in no way "dominant," which would be consistent top 8 placements at almost every tournament he attended. His recent results, while really good, are mostly at a couple regional-level tournaments during a period where offline is slowly coming back.
:''Ultimate''{{'}}s metagame is also still developing, so there shouldn't be a rush to include anyone else aside from MkLeo in my opinion. Even if we do include online, there isn't a single best online player if you look at its entire history. king_chris was considered the best before the pandemic, then players such as Sparg0, Kola, BestNess, Sonix, and Maister became contenders during the pandemic. While Sparg0 did eventually edge out the competition, he wasn't as dominant as anyone else listed on the GOAT page, especially with Sonix and Maister close behind him. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 14:07, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

::::Ok. Fair Point. I'll stop putting the best player in the world on people that don't have the results and ill look at their characters in the tounament. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 14:35, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>

:Last time you'll hear from me: Why isn't SDX/Secret, the best Mewtwo, in the Most Historically Significant Players, wasn't he the best Mewtwo player when he played Mewtwo? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 18:09, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>

:Mainly because he last used Mewtwo during early meta. So it seems unlikely his mewtwo would be considered historically significant. If he had been dominant like MKLeo's Ike we may have kept it. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 18:13, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

::Is there a reason that Charizard, Ivysaur, and Squirtle don't have a player list? Sheik and Zelda had it when they were together in Melee and Brawl. Or is this a dumb question? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 18:16, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>

:Main reason is most players don't solo main one of the three characters and those that do aren't usually as successful as they might otherwise be. (See {{Sm|Tosshi}} ). Back in melee Sheik players never used Zelda except for the occasional recovery so it made since to split them. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 18:27, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

:::Ok, That's all the questions I had. If I have another question, I'll ask. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 18:35, August 5, 2021 (EDT)</small>

Is there a reason Peanut isn't one of the players in Little Mac's page? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] ([[User talk:162.251.172.162|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|contribs]]) 20:08, August 6, 2021 (EDT)</small>
:Is there a reason you cannot sign your comments? Please remember to do so when posting on any talk page (four tildes at the end, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 21:39, August 6, 2021 (EDT)
:He was talked about but mainly his results don't really hold up when compared to the Little Macs on the page, at least right now. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 21:50, August 6, 2021 (EDT)
:While he does have some decent results online and has done pretty well at locals and a couple of regionals, the sections are for people with historical notability. Peanut only really started to gain traction recently, and even then it's bolstered by him being a content creator as well. As such, he does seem like the most notable Little Mac player when it comes to social media presence, but as for historical notability in competitive play, he has yet to reach it. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 23:29, August 6, 2021 (EDT)

Ok I'm back, thank you for telling me to get a name. Also thank you. What if you don't have a page? I don't sign them because I'm new to this. What are you suppose to do to put your name on? <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Royal Marth|Royal Marth]] ([[User talk:Royal Marth|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Royal Marth|contribs]]) 21:54, August 6, 2021 (EDT)</small>
:Even if you don't have a userpage, you still need to sign every comment. See [[SW:TALK]] for details. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 23:29, August 6, 2021 (EDT)

So my name here is Royal Marth, (I'm not good with names) so would I sign like this [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] 23:37, August 6, 2021 (EDT)
:No matter the talk page, whether it's your own or somewhere else, whether you have a registered account or not, to sign your talk page posts, insert ONLY <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> at the end of whatever you wrote down. I know that's a little weird but that's literally all you do to sign. The wiki software will generate a timestamp marked with your username (or IP address if you're not logged in). [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 23:53, August 6, 2021 (EDT)

Ok, now that I understand the name stuff, Why isn't Peanut on little mac's Most Historically Significant Player? [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] 23:58, August 6, 2021 (EDT)
:Peanuts results don't compare well next go the Mac's on the list. There are other Mac's Little Mac's like Akaraien, Yaminabe and Mr. Newport that are either as good if not better as well and they also aren't being listed. [[User:Wiifitkid|Wiifitkid]] ([[User talk:Wiifitkid|talk]]) 08:54, August 7, 2021 (EDT)
:Peanut results just ain’t that good tbh, he mostly only do well at less stacked/smaller online events otherwise at much bigger ones he usually drowns. Sure, he may have some good online wins and some good placements at recent locals/regionals. But he is far from most historical IMO, at least other players on that list are more significant than him, online results take up a much smaller scale in that section. Also why ain’t u logged in after already created an account? [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 09:32, August 7, 2021 (EDT)
:Didn’t you just ask this question? [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 09:45, August 7, 2021 (EDT)

Yes I did. But then I got caught up with getting an account so I assumed that we forgot about it so I mentioned it again. Royal Marth [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] 12:19, August 7, 2021 (EDT)

Question: Has there been a tournament that has Leo, Zackary, Glutonnoy, and Tweek aside from Evo? I'm asking because I consider them the best Ultimate players in the world and maybe of all time. Royal Marth [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] 20:21, August 7, 2021 (EDT)
:Glutonny is an amazing player, but he is definitely not Top 4 of all time in Ultimate, nor would I say he's Top 4 right now.

:He has:
:1. Never won an S-Tier in Ultimate.
:2. Never won an A-Tier or S-Tier in North America.
:3. Placed Top 4 at only roughly a quarter of the majors he's attended in North America.
:4. Never been ranked Top 5 on the PGRU or OrionRank.

:I think even saying Zackray is Top 4 all-time is a bit generous (he's only placed Top 4 at two majors in North America, although admittedly he did win one of those and it was an S-Tier), but saying he's Top 4 right now is definitely understandable.

:To answer your question, though: GENESIS 6, 2GG: Prime Saga, EVO 2019, 2GG: Kongo Saga, and Frostbite 2020 had all four of those players. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 20:54, August 7, 2021 (EDT)

To be fair, I consider them good as Glutonny is the best Europe player, and Zackary is Japan's best. Leo is Mexico's best, and in my opinion Tweek is America's best player. That's why I asked about them. They are, in my opinion, the best so far. However, who do you consider top 4, cause I am curious about other peoples opinions. Royal Marth [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] 21:02, August 7, 2021 (EDT)
::There are a few players in both North America and Japan that have objectively achieved better (or at least similar) results to Glutonny. Glutonny is undeniably the best in Europe, but like I said, he is definitely not Top 4 all-time.
::MkLeo, Tweek, Marss, Samsora, Nairo, and Zackray have been consistently ranked over Glutonny for the vast majority of the game's lifespan if you look at PGRU and OrionRank (although Samsora is banned now, admittedly), and he's performed similarly to Dabuz and Shuton. This isn't really a matter of opinion.
::As for who the Top 4 players are in the present day, that's much harder to say considering the quarantine era happened. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 21:50, August 7, 2021 (EDT)

:::The quarantine has its own best players, among them king_chris, Sparg0, Tweek to name a few, but I was just asking. Royal Marth [[Special:Contributions/162.251.172.162|162.251.172.162]] 23:13, August 7, 2021 (EDT)
Why isn't Project M/+ on the Fighter page? Royal Marth [[User:Royal Marth|Royal Marth]] ([[User talk:Royal Marth|talk]]) 16:34, August 9, 2021 (EDT)
:Those are supposed to be fan-made mods which means they ain't official. We only cover their characters and competitive play due to how popular they are within the Smash community. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 10:12, August 11, 2021 (EDT)

==Before you continue...==
Don't forget that [[User talk:Royal Marth|you created an account a few days ago]]. Please [[SW:SOCK|ensure you are logged in]] before editing the wiki any further. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|🦊'''Furry Nation'''🐺]]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 00:01, August 8, 2021 (EDT)
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