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| I feel like someone should edit the article, preferably someone who doesn't have a stance on m2k's behavior, to eliminate poor wording that shows opinions supporting and opposing him. Informational wikis are generally the place for unbiased information, and the presentation of the controversies section is extremely poor. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:74.237.129.01|74.237.129.01]] ([[User talk:74.237.129.01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/74.237.129.01|contribs]]) 22:54, 24 April 2014</small> | | I feel like someone should edit the article, preferably someone who doesn't have a stance on m2k's behavior, to eliminate poor wording that shows opinions supporting and opposing him. Informational wikis are generally the place for unbiased information, and the presentation of the controversies section is extremely poor. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:74.237.129.01|74.237.129.01]] ([[User talk:74.237.129.01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/74.237.129.01|contribs]]) 22:54, 24 April 2014</small> |
| :It would be quite helpful if you could point to specific passages. I have tried to go through this and remove some of the biased writing before, but am willing to accept that I might have missed some things. If you can point me (or anyone else) to specific points that you find not well written, I'd be happy to take another look. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 23:40, 24 April 2014 (EDT) | | :It would be quite helpful if you could point to specific passages. I have tried to go through this and remove some of the biased writing before, but am willing to accept that I might have missed some things. If you can point me (or anyone else) to specific points that you find not well written, I'd be happy to take another look. [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 23:40, 24 April 2014 (EDT) |
| ::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/23katl/m2ks_im_4_stocking_you_face_from_fp4_last_night/cgy52j7 Someone on Reddit did a pretty good writeup on why the section is biased], something which I've personally felt for a while now. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 06:38, 12 May 2014 (EDT) | | ::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/23katl/m2ks_im_4_stocking_you_face_from_fp4_last_night/cgy52j7 Someone on Reddit did a pretty good writeup on why the section is biased], something which I've personally felt for a while now. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 06:38, 12 May 2014 (EDT) |
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| ::::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/28ucqc/should_we_edit_m2ks_wiki_page/ Just going to bring this up again, guys]. This section is ridiculously biased, as I've stated before. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 00:44, 23 June 2014 (EDT) | | ::::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/28ucqc/should_we_edit_m2ks_wiki_page/ Just going to bring this up again, guys]. This section is ridiculously biased, as I've stated before. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 00:44, 23 June 2014 (EDT) |
| :::::I will attempt to shorten the sections, although I may not do a good job in choosing words to convey an unbiased tone. Look into it when I'm done. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 00:59, 23 June 2014 (EDT) | | :::::I will attempt to shorten the sections, although I may not do a good job in choosing words to convey an unbiased tone. Look into it when I'm done. --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 00:59, 23 June 2014 (EDT) |
| ::::::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27hj87/what_can_i_do_to_improve_as_a_person_and_other/ci0wwzl?context=3 M2K explains the whole Japan situation.] Can someone edit this into the article? I'm not sure how to phrase it myself, but what's currently written is full of half-truths. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 02:55, 23 June 2014 (EDT) | | ::::::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27hj87/what_can_i_do_to_improve_as_a_person_and_other/ci0wwzl?context=3 M2K explains the whole Japan situation.] Can someone edit this into the article? I'm not sure how to phrase it myself, but what's currently written is full of half-truths. |
| :::::::I personally feel that we should keep the section there if only to address the large amounts of rumors and stuff related to Japan. It doesn't have to be under the controversies section, but the rumors and stuff regarding the trip should be addressed, if only because it caused a, for simplicity's sake, shitstorm in the Smash community. Clarifying the events that happened there, which would require just writing the section from scratch, might be in our best interest. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 03:25, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::::::I think the section as it is right now is fine. Covers what he did wrong, but without a lot of the accusatory tone that was present before. Maybe the Japan thing could be reworded better, but I don't know. Thoughts? --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 13:54, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::::::I'd actually prefer it if all the Reddit folks shouting, "delete it, delete it!" came down here and decided to have a conversation with the Wiki rather than among themselves. If you done goofed in Smash tournament related things, we need to cover it. It's not just mere gossip or personal life information; the controversies are related to how he has performed as a Smasher. In addition, it would be better to note his improvement attempts than just flat out remove the controversies, because improvement is something that everyone wants to see. It would be better if a person made mistakes and learned from them than for someone to just flat out ignore the past and say that they were always this good. Again, post your opinions here rather than force us to make Reddit accounts because honestly? You want change, so go make it happen; discuss the page with us. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 15:32, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::::::::[http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/28yc4u/clearing_up_and_possibly_changing_my_smash_wiki/ Mew2King weighs in on the discussion]. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 06:14, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::::::::I came here from the Reddit link above, though I don't by any means claim to be a representative of Reddit as a whole or even the people contributing to that thread. Also note I am new to the Wiki so I hope I don't commit any faux pas - if I do then please bear with me and let me know. I am of the opinion that the whole "Trip to Japan" section is unnecessary (in its current form, I realise it has been edited) and does not provide any useful information about Mew2King's Smash performance or career. The amount of money he took with him is not relevant to anything at all, and the business with the futon is personal and has nothing to do with Smash. I do not agree with MegaTron1 that just because it happened while he was travelling in order to play Smash, or happened at the home of a Smash player who was housing him, that it is relevant. I suggest the section should be removed entirely. I understand that the trip is somehow notorious and some people feel it should be included, but if it is then it should be rewritten to contain only facts that are relevant to M2K's Smash performance/career. If the only reason it is notorious is for non-Smash-related behaviour, then I don't believe it should be here. [[User:LZKatz|LZKatz]] ([[User talk:LZKatz|talk]]) 10:45, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::::::::::I feel the trip to Japan section doesn't add anything to the article and would support it being removed. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 11:17, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::::::::::I read Mew2King's responses, and he explains the motivation behind all of the things that happened. However, there's a clear difference between documenting the facts (which, admittedly, the Trip to Japan section never truly fulfilled) and writing it to intentionally defame him. It's nice he explained everything, and we've already incorporated that into the article, but a fair number of people are taking this as "SmashWiki sucks and should remove all the bullshit they're writing about M2K," which is not something we want to be doing, or suggesting inane things like "let's fuck up the wiki so everyone will only have good things to say about M2K." Regarding the Trip to Japan section, I feel like that it was placed there to describe a possible origin for the fake "Mew2King stories" that were circulating around that time. I've read my fair share of them and they're quite ridiculous. Whether it gets removed or not is probably up to the discretion of others (I can't form a concrete opinion on "remove" or "not remove") but if it doesn't get removed, it should be rewritten to emphasize that it began rumors, which leads into his CT sponsorship. That's what I read from a Chibo post saying that he wanted Mew2King to represent the community better and dispel all the fake rumors that were going around. But there's one thing I want to clear up, and that it isn't "one writer" when it comes to things like this. We see something; we build on it. May or may not be true. When given evidence against it, we take it in stride and change it, like we do now. That's how a wiki community works, and believe me, we've learned quite a bit from this ordeal. <small><small>sincerely, the person who was screaming his lungs out for M2K to take MLG and is continuing to cheer for him at CEO/EVO/every event ever</small></small> --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 12:04, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| '''Here's the verdict thus far for reference:'''
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| *We keep the controversies at MLG and ROM 5 that actually happened with factual explanations. We've already removed a lot of the anti-M2K bias that was present before.
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| *The trip to Japan section is still questionable.
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| *The last section has ''nothing but good things to say'' about how Mew2King has improved his character, and about his sponsorship. That's a keeper.
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| Besides the aforementioned single section that's debatable, I don't know what else we can do. The section is far less biased (if at all), removing speculation, personal viewpoints, and other nasty things that users have written in the past from the picture. It owes up to what mistakes he made, what was behind those mistakes, and how he improved. Having a controversy section in itself is not our attempt to intentionally defame Mew2King. Any more things to add? --[[User:Timson622222|Timson622222]] ([[User talk:Timson622222|talk]]) 17:40, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| :Two quotes for thought. '''"These things, they take time"''', in response to how long this is taking, and '''"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"''' M2K's certainly not evil, but honestly, I've come to respect him more as a player because, despite all the shit he's been put through, and despite all the nasty rumors that spread about him, he ended up being a good person that has earned the respect of the Smash community. Japan is relevant, yes. It was a pretty big thing for the Smash community, as shown on the massive AiB blogs about the events that went on there. However, it wasn't only M2K's fault and despite all the rumors and crap that spread about the trip, he still ended up being a pretty solid and good person that I respect, whereas in the past, I thought he was some lazy guy because of the AiB posts about his Japan trip. Clearing up the confusion and ending on a note of improvement is arguably better for his reputation, which you guys care about so much. As for Liqupedia, if you guys actually cared that much about it, you'd be editing it '''while''' trying to settle things here, rather than just suggest that you do something on Reddit, and then not do anything when we've asked you to discuss. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px]] 17:53, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| ==Protection== | | ==Protection== |
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| Should we note M2K's Pichu? He seems to be using it alot. Only as a secondary though. --[[User:TheLegendaryKRB|TheLegendaryKRB]] ([[User talk:TheLegendaryKRB|talk]]) 14:33, 16 March 2014 (EDT) | | Should we note M2K's Pichu? He seems to be using it alot. Only as a secondary though. --[[User:TheLegendaryKRB|TheLegendaryKRB]] ([[User talk:TheLegendaryKRB|talk]]) 14:33, 16 March 2014 (EDT) |
| :It's not a secondary. It's a sandbagging choice. This doesn't deserve mention as an other character. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:34, 16 March 2014 (EDT) | | :It's not a secondary. It's a sandbagging choice. This doesn't deserve mention as an other character. [[User:Scr7|<span style="color:#0000FF"">S</span><span style="color:#7F7FFF">c</span><span style="color:#00FFFF">r</span><span style="color:#FF7F00">7</span>]][[File:Scr7 sig.png|link=]]([[User talk:Scr7|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Scr7|contribs]]) 14:34, 16 March 2014 (EDT) |
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| ==Smash 64 Skill==
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| Mew2King has gone even with Sensei, who is labeled as "top professional", defeated Fireblaster who is "top professional" and Fireblaster has gotten top 8 at Apex 2015 and 5th at Smash Con in Smash 64. He also took Superboomfan to last stock + last hit in Smash 64. I say we put him as top professional. He also defeated Kero in set 1 of grand finals (Kero was not playing his main), but he even took a game off of him when he was playing his main who he got 2nd at Super Smash Con with.
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| :As I explained on the edit summary, Mew2King has only ever beaten Sensei when he wasn't using his main, and Fireblaster wasn't considered to be a "top professional" at the time that he lost to Mew2King. I think "Professional" suits M2K fine, but it's unlikely that he would get Top 16 at an ''SSB64'' major. Also, keep in mind that you're citing wins from a couple years ago, and that all of those players have improved heavily since then (especially Fireblaster). [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:55, 24 October 2015 (EDT)
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| == Mew2King's own comments on the "perceived controversy" section ==
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| [http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/28yc4u/clearing_up_and_possibly_changing_my_smash_wiki/ Mew2King provided explanations for the "perceived controversy" points] ~''[[User:Hyper Zergling|<span style="color:yellow;">Hyper</span>]] [[User talk:Hyper Zergling|<span style="color:blue;">Zergling</span>]]'' 07:14, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| :I actually linked that above earlier, although I guess it was easy to miss. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 07:15, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| ::My bad. ~''[[User:Hyper Zergling|<span style="color:yellow;">Hyper</span>]] [[User talk:Hyper Zergling|<span style="color:blue;">Zergling</span>]]'' 20:57, 24 June 2014 (EDT)
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| == Notable tournament placings ==
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| Mew2King has been playing Smash competitively for 10 to 12 years years by now and seeing how some of his "Notable tournament placings" section is getting big, I kinda want to reduce the size of it by a bit. Either maybe create subsections for each game or get rid of the ones that are really minor. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] The Greninja 13:56, 22 July 2015 (EDT)
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| :Wouldn't it just be simpler to take off the word "notable"? Frankly, more Smasher pages should have tourney results this exhaustive; it's honestly the most important thing for a Smasher page other than the opening paragraph(s). [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:12, 22 July 2015 (EDT)
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| == Semi-protect? ==
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| This page has been getting vandalized a lot lately. I '''support''', obviously. Discuss. [[User:Ganonmew|<span style="color: green;">'''Ganonmew'''</span>]], [[User talk:Ganonmew|<span style="color:green;">'''The Evil Clone'''</span>]] 20:56, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| :It's only happened once in a while, and it was minor. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 20:57, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| :: Meh,'''oppose'''. It is vandalized a lot, but not enough, IMO. [[User:Penro|Penro, the]] [[File:PenroDarkPitHead.png|19px|Dark Pit]] and [[File:PenroZSSHead.png|19px|ZSS]] main. 20:58, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| We really don't vote on protection anyway. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 21:00, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| yey '''I support'''
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| "TIERS ARE 4 QUEERS" [[User:KirbysCrazyAppetite|Kirby's Crazy Appetite]] ~ [[File:KirbyHeadYellowSSB.png|50x20px]] 21:04, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| Yeah uh we still don't vote on protection. I do think this has been vandalized enough to be worth it though. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 21:06, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| :Why? It's the first time in a while... <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:12pt">[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">'''Serpent'''</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;">'''King'''</span></span>]] 21:10, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| ::Well, I guess that's true. Still, he's one of the higher candidates for protection. <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|you]]. Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 21:13, 2 February 2016 (EST)
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| ::I guess you could call it a first...nonetheless I looked through the history and...looking at the date of the attacks, closed in as they were, I repeal. [[User:Ganonmew|<span style="color: green;">'''Ganonmew'''</span>]], [[User talk:Ganonmew|<span style="color:green;">'''The Evil Clone'''</span>]] 07:02, 3 February 2016 (EST)
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| == Ranked on most global power rankings? ==
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| M2K is ranked on three of the most recent global power rankings ([[2014 SSBBRank]], [[2015 SSBMRank]] and [[Panda Global SSB4 Rankings]]). Is anyone else on three? Is there a more recent Brawl rank or a Project M rank? I think we could add this to trivia. -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 19:34, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
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| :ESAM is also ranked on all three. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 21:47, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
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| ::Do you think this could be mentioned on both of their trivia sections if it is unique to only two people? -- [[User:Ethan7|<span style="color:#000f55;font-family:Cursive;font-style:italic">Ethan</span>]][[file:Ethan7sig.png|20px|link=User:Ethan7]]<small>''([[User talk:Ethan7|<span style="color:Blue">Discussion</span>]])''</small> 11:13, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
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| == Mew2King's Melee Data ==
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| The link for ClashTournament's page, where all the data of Mew2King research on Melee is no longer available, there's a thread in Smashboards regarding his research, also posted by M2K himself, but I don't know if that's his whole research data. Can anyone confirm this?
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| Here's the SmashBoards post, August 8th 2003
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| *[http://smashboards.com/threads/ssbm-statistics-list.30064/ SmashBoards SSBM Statistics List]
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| [[User:JL-Noir]] 18 July 2016, 19:55:56 EDT
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| :Not 100% sure, but we should probably mention it anyway. [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:LawnGreen">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: orange;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 19:59, 18 July 2016 (EDT)
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| == Tournament Activity ==
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| I feel like M2K's page needs an overhaul and an update, he is not nearly as active as he used to be (with his focus on streaming being cited as one of the main reasons for his semi-activity) and there is also little to no mention of his more recent results. It is also not structured like some of the other pages, having only a main paragraph (which includes what should be a summary of his results) and playing styles for both ''Melee'' and ''Smash 4'' before going into his results. As such, it's hard to place the newer info and I feel like putting what I mentioned into trivia won't really help. [[User:Smashgold347238|<span style="color:#D4AF37">Gold</span>]] [[file:Goldsig.png|20px|link=User talk:Smashgold347238]] 03:02, June 14, 2019 (EDT)
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