Editing Ness (SSB4)

'''Ness''' ({{ja|ネス|Nesu}}, ''Ness'') returns as a playable character in ''[[Super Smash Bros. 4]]''. Ness was officially confirmed on October 3rd, 2014, alongside {{SSB4|Falco}} and {{SSB4|Wario}}, coinciding with the Western release of {{for3ds}}. As in every previous ''Smash Bros.'' installation, Ness is once again voiced by Makiko Ōmoto, who has now recorded new voice clips for both versions of the game.

Ness is ranked 28th/29th out of 54 characters on the [[tier list]] (tied with {{SSB4|Lucas}}), placing both him and Lucas as the lowest C tier characters. This is a vast improvement from his 26th out of 38 in ''Brawl'' and is his best placement in the series. Ness no longer suffers from having 10 extra [[grab release]] frames, which was a huge detriment to his survival. Besides that, Ness possesses arguably the best grab game among the entire cast (competing with {{SSB4|Mewtwo}}'s and {{SSB4|Luigi}}'s), with his forward and up throws leaving opponents in very unfavorable positions, his down throw being a great combo starter at lower percentages and his back throw being the most powerful throw in the game, on top of being difficult to DI properly. Other notable strengths include an effective [[projectile]] game with [[PK Fire]] and [[PK Thunder]], a formidable air game courtesy of his powerful aerials, and a versatile combo game thanks to his throws and aerials. Despite being a middleweight, he also has high raw KO power and high damage output, a prime example being his aerials, forward smash, PK Flash and PK Thunder 2. Finally, due to the strengths above, Ness possesses very useful options to cover getups from a ledge or on the ground.

However, Ness has rather sub-par mobility and range, which often forces him to be methodical with his approaches, or play defensively in order to gain the lead, which can leave him at a disadvantage against characters with greater range on their attacks such as Cloud. Lastly and the most problematic is his recovery. Despite being greatly improved, PK Thunder remains quite gimpable as the lightning bolt can clang with other attacks, while opponents can forcibly push Ness out of the way or even take a hit from the lightning bolt, making his recovery fail.

While Ness has poor matchups against several characters that were ranked higher than him, particularly {{SSB4|Rosalina & Luma}}, {{SSB4|Marth}}, and {{SSB4|Corrin}}, Ness has achieved good representation and above average results thanks to top players such as {{Sm|FOW}}, {{Sm|BestNess}}, {{Sm|S1}}, {{Sm|The Great Gonzales}}, {{Sm|Gackt}}, and {{Sm|NAKAT}}.

Ness is an unusual blend of character archetypes, being a short, projectile-heavy character with a lot of versatility with his moves. Ness's [[weight]] is average and his [[falling speed]] is rather slow, giving him no disadvantage with weight alone. His [[walking speed]] is slow while his [[dashing speed]] and [[air speed]] are both sub-par, but his [[air acceleration]] is very high.

Ness possesses three [[projectile]]s: [[PK Flash]], [[PK Fire]], and [[PK Thunder]]. PK Flash can be used as an extremely powerful punishing or edge-guarding option, dealing huge knockback which can KO even Bowser, the heaviest character, under 70%. PK Fire possesses a good amount of range and holds opponents in it when it hits them (due to being impossible to SDI out of), granting Ness guaranteed follow-ups (such as grab, an additional PK Fire, or a forward smash to finish the opponent) as long as he acts quickly enough. Also, it can be used off-stage against characters with more linear recoveries to combo into down air. PK Thunder is one of the more unique projectiles in the game. When used, the player will lose control of Ness and instead take control of a large thunder ball for a few seconds. PK Thunder can essentially be used to knock opponents towards Ness for follow ups, to mindgame opponents into a PK Thunder 2 trap to finish them, to edgeguard, and to juggle opponents. The knockback it provides can also hit an opponent over the upper blast line (especially light and floaty characters), allowing it to be used as a situational [[KO]] move as well. His down special move, [[PSI Magnet]],  provides a psychic shield that can heal him when hit with an energy based attack, making it extremely effective against characters with slower projectiles such as Samus or the Mii Gunner. PSI Magnet has fast start-up and end-lag, this allows Ness to cancel his double jump momentum and allows him to reverse himself mid-air more reliably, making it effective for avoiding vertical attacks such as Mario's up smash when Ness is on the air.

Ness's biggest strength is found in his superb aerial game. Most of Ness's aerial moves can be used to either space, combo, or KO. All aerials, excluding down aerial, are capable of [[auto-canceling]] out of a [[short hop]]. His neutral aerial possesses very little startup and ending lag, and hits on both sides of Ness, making it a useful [[out of shield]] option. His forward aerial has quick startup, a disjointed hitbox, and traps opponents, essentially allowing it to chain into either itself or another move. It is a powerful [[spacing]] tool and is helpful in [[approach]]ing opponents. His up aerial, one of the strongest in the game, can be used to combo at lower percents and KO reliably at higher percents. It possesses a large hitbox and little lag, making it low risk, high reward. His back aerial is another reliable KO move that possesses low lag. His down aerial can occasionally be useful in edgeguarding, although it has significant startup in comparison to his other aerials. Down aerial has a large autocancel window, giving Ness the ability to decrease the length of his shorthop, as Ness extends his hurtbox by using the move. Ness can use this property to Tomahawk much more effectively, buffer landing options, mix up his platform movement, and occasionally avoid techchase situations. Thanks to his floatiness, Ness can perform a neutral aerial or up aerial after a short hop air dodge, allowing him to jump through moves with invincibility and whiff punish.

While Ness's aerials make him a formidable fighter at close quarters, he can struggle to pressure from afar. His dash attack has an exceptionally long range and is a decent approach, but leaves him vulnerable to landing aerials and is only safe if properly spaced. PK Fire covers a lot of ground and can be used to perform a [[PK Jump]], a technique that allows Ness to approach or retreat by inputting the move 1 frame after double jumping. If Ness buffers an airdodge after double jumping, he can increase the height of his double. If Ness uses PSI Magnet then PK Thunder by the ledge, he will snap immediately, rather than stalling as he would normally. By combining these two traits together, Ness can often recover without having to use PK Thunder to travel, alleviating one of his biggest weaknesses.

Ness's grab game is also very potent. His standing grab has slightly below average range and is fast. His pivot grab is surprisingly disjointed and his dash grab gives him a substantial speed boost. As mentioned earlier, Ness can trap opponents with PK Fire or PK Jump in order to set up for a grab. Ness possesses one of the fastest [[pummel]]s in the game, allowing him to deal a decent amount of damage before throwing. His down throw neatly sets up for aerial attacks, leading into a forward air chain at lower percents or an up air at higher percents. Ness's forward throw has very high base knockback and can set up edgeguards. Up throw can be used to play situational [[mindgames]] with PK Thunder. Ness's infamous back throw is the strongest throw in the game; while it has very low base knockback, it has extremely high knockback scaling and is often regarded as his most effective and commonly used KO option.

Ness is far from perfect, however. He possesses below average speed in both the ground and the air, making it hard for him to chase most opponents. His ground game is also generally weak as he possesses short-ranged tilt attacks. His up and down smashes are also somewhat situational. While his up smash can be used as an out of shield option and his down smash as a useful edgeguarding option to two-frame opponents, both KO considerably later than his other KO options in a neutral situation, and his forward smash, while extremely powerful, possesses both high startup and ending lag, making it easily punishable if it misses. Ness's biggest flaw, however, is his [[recovery]]. While there have been various buffs to his recovery that make it much more reliable and viable than in previous ''Smash'' games, it is still easy to gimp if Ness is not careful enough with his double jump offstage. Characters with multiple jumps, such as {{SSB4|Jigglypuff}}, {{SSB4|Kirby}} and {{SSB4|Meta Knight}}, with counters, such as most of the Fire Emblem characters, or with moves that [[reflect]] or [[absorb]], such as {{SSB4|Rosalina}},

{{SSB4|Villager}}, and {{SSB4|Pit}} can force Ness into disadvantage when offstage.

Custom moves can give Ness great advantages and brand new options. [[PK Freeze]] can [[freeze]] opponents, allowing free follow-ups, especially with PK Fire. PK Fire Burst has more range and power and always goes straight, making it a spacing tool rather than a combo tool. Lasting PK Thunder goes right through opponents and moves slower, allowing for better control. Recovery with PK Thunder 2 is also longer, significantly improving Ness' offstage survivability. Rolling PK Thunder travels much slower but is much stronger. While the recovery with PK Thunder 2 is mediocre due to the drastically decreased distance of it, the move is also significantly stronger, which allows it to KO even earlier than normal PK Thunder 2. Forward PSI Magnet is the same, but has a [[semi-spike]] hitbox in front of Ness, functioning similar to {{SSB4|Fox}}'s [[Reflector]]. Finally, if the opponent has no energy projectiles, PSI Vacuum is the optimal choice, as it draws opponents in and is the strongest of Ness's down special moves damage-wise.

Overall, Ness is viewed as a viable character in tournament play, due to his good combo game and extremely potent kill options. Despite this, he is believed to have a somewhat volatile matchup spread; he is especially vulnerable to characters that can abuse his poor mobility and low range to zone him out. Characters such as Rosalina and Luma, Marth, and Corrin are seen as especially troublesome matchups for Ness.

Ness has been heavily buffed in the transition from ''Brawl'' to ''SSB4''. His grab-release animation with 10 extra frames of ending lag, which was one of his most detrimental flaws, has been removed, and many of the other flaws he had (mainly his recovery) have been addressed. Ness also greatly benefits from the general changes of ''SSB4'', as the new edge-trumping mechanic makes his recovery much harder to gimp, and the changes to [[hitstun canceling]] allows him to combo with his moves much more efficiently while the weakening of [[SDI]] makes his multi hit moves more reliable. The introduction of [[rage]] also benefits him as it improves his KO potential when he's at higher percents. He also greatly benefits from the removal of [[chain grab]]bing which was one of the main reasons why his longer grounded grab release was so exploitable.

As for direct changes outside of the length of his grounded grab release animation, he has seen a mix of buffs and nerfs. Ness overall has greater mobility, his smash attacks are stronger and his down smash can now be used as a powerful edgeguarding tool as Ness can now charge to close to a ledge and it now [[semi-spike]]s opponents.

However, Ness has seen more direct nerfs overall. Ness' damage output is overall lower and a variety of his moves have smaller hitboxes. His aerial game has seen some downgrades as his forward aerial deals less damage, has more landing lag and has much smaller hitboxes making it a less effective spacing tool while his down aerial has less range, is considerably weaker and it has lost its extremely lenient [[auto-cancel]] window making it no longer auto-cancel in a short hop and making it a much worse move overall. His down throw also has considerably increased knockback hindering its setup potential at higher percents.

Overall, Ness is significantly better than he ever was in previous ''Super Smash Bros.'' games due to the general changes to the mechanics greatly benefiting him overall and he has also seen solid tournament representation and greatly improved results due to his vast improvement.

*{{change|Ness has a brighter color palette, and has lost the blushes on his cheeks and the purple hue in his eyes. He is also slightly taller and thinner, with a smaller and more proportionate head, and a smaller backpack. He also lacks the partial yellow stripe that he had at the bottom of his shirt.}}

*{{change|Ness' backpack now has more various color schemes depending on his alternate costume, such as a blue backpack for his yellow outfit, and a red backpack for his green outfit, whereas in previous titles, his backpack for those aforementioned costumes used the default color scheme instead.}}

*{{change|Ness is more expressive.}}

*{{change|All of Ness' PSI-based attacks now use a graphic effect similar to Lucas's attacks (forward aerial, up smash, etc.) instead of using the same graphic effect as his double jump.}}

*{{buff|Ness' grounded [[grab release]] has much less ending lag (FAF 41 → 30), now matching the rest of the cast, and making him significantly less vulnerable to grab release follow-ups especially when combined with the removal of [[chain grab]]bing. The changes to air releases also benefits him as he is far less susceptible to air release followups.}}

**{{nerf|The first hit of neutral attack deals 1% less damage (3% → 2%) and all three hits have smaller hitboxes (3u/3u/2.5u → 3u/2u (hits 1 & 2), 4.5u/4u/3.8u → 4u/2.4u (hit 3)).}}

**{{nerf|Up tilt has slightly higher startup (frame 5 → 7) and its old hitbox is now a sourspot that deals 2% less damage. Its hitboxes are also smaller (7.2u/7.2u → 6.5u/4.0u) to compensate the increased vertical range.}}

**{{nerf|Down tilt now has a sourspot at the end of Ness's foot that deals less damage (4% → 2%) with its base knockback only slightly increased (3 → 6). Down tilt also has smaller hitboxes (4.32u/2.88u/3.36u → 2.5u/2.5u).}}

**{{buff|Dash attack now launches in front of Ness instead of behind him (100° → 80°), making followups easier. The final hit also deals more knockback (70 (base), 100 (scaling) → 80/104) and has a bigger hitbox (5u → 6u).}}

**{{change|The first hit of dash attack no longer deals consistent damage (5% → 4%/7%/3%). This makes it better against aerial opponents, but worse on grounded ones. Dash attack also has more intense lighting effects.}}

**{{nerf|The second hit of dash attack deals less damage (4% → 2%) and as the first hit no longer deals consistent damage, dash attack as a whole no longer deals consistent damage (13% → 9%/11%/13%).}}

**{{buff|Forward smash deals drastically more knockback (50 (base), 62 (scaling) → 70/67) (now having the same knockback values as its Japanese ''Smash 64'' counterpart), going from a forward smash of above-average power in ''Brawl'' to one of the most powerful forward smashes in ''Smash 4''. Its reflector now has a speed and power multiplier, drastically improving its punishing utility.}}

**{{nerf|Forward smash's strongest tipper hitbox has been completely removed, so that its maximum damage potential when uncharged has been lowered (24% → 22%). Its other hitboxes are also smaller (2.9u/3.6u/3.8u/4.099983u → 2.3u/2.6u/3.0u) and its reflector now has a limit, where if he tries to reflect a projectile that is too strong to reflect, Ness will experience about 300 frames (5 seconds) of ending lag.}}

*Yoyo:

**{{nerf|Down smash's main hit deals less damage (13% → 10%) and its knockback was not fully compensated (90 (base), 60 (scaling) → 60/80 (front), 50/80 (back)).}}

***{{buff|Because of this, the front hit deals more damage overall (13% → 14%).}}

**{{buff|Forward aerial's looping hits have a decreased SDI multiplier (1.5x → 0.8x) which along with the weakening of SDI makes forward aerial significantly more difficult to escape from.}}

***{{buff|This allows them to connect more reliably (with the move now being able to reliably chain into itself) improving Ness's comboing and damage-racking capabilities.}}

**{{change|The final hit has increased knockback (24 (base), 145 (scaling) → 32/150) improving forward aerial's edgeguarding potential but hindering its ability to chain into itself.}}

**{{nerf|Forward aerial deals less damage (2% → 1%  (loop), 11% → 7% (total)), has smaller hitboxes (8.1u → 5u/1.5u (loop hits), 9u → 8u (final)) and the final hit has a shorter duration (frames 20-21 → 20).}}

**{{nerf|Forward aerial has increased landing lag (12 frames → 20) and [[auto-cancel]]s later (frame 30 → 33).}}

**{{change|Up aerial has an altered animation where Ness swings his head more quickly.}}

**{{change|Down aerial's hitbox is now static, rather than being attached to Ness' foot. This means that the hitbox now stays in the same position relative to Ness, rather than moving with his foot.}}

**{{change|Down aerial uses the strong magic sound effect on hit instead of a strong/medium punch sound.}}

**{{buff|The changes to [[hitstun canceling]] and DI significantly benefits down throw, as Ness can now use it to set up into his aerials much more effectively at lower percents when combined with its lowered base knockback (90 → 70).}}

**{{nerf|Down throw's fire hits deal less damage (1% → 0.6%) reducing its total damage output (9% → 7%).}}

**{{change|PK Flash is now a much darker green.}}

**{{nerf|PK Fire has slightly more ending lag. It now travels much farther back to Ness if [[reflected]] rather than petering out after traveling its set distance.}}

**{{nerf|PSI Magnet swirls projectiles around it, causing a slight delay until Ness can actually be healed. If Ness were to drop PSI Magnet and/or be launched, the absorbed projectiles may take even longer to reach him, but they will still heal him eventually.}}

**{{change|The swirling of captured attacks by PSI Magnet utterly nullifies even projectiles that would continue past Ness, including [[Thoron]] and {{SSB4|Pikachu}}'s {{b|Thunder|Pokémon}}.}}

**{{change|PSI Magnet is now light blue like in ''Melee''.}}

Ness has been slightly nerfed overall in game updates. His most notable nerfs are the reduced damage output to his down throw and PK Fire having slightly more endlag. The changes to shield mechanics also hamper him slightly due to the majority of his non PSI-based moves having a rather low damage output. Ness has also got some other useful buffs, however, such as a faster PSI Magnet and his down aerial having a bigger hitbox and lasts one more frame (though it's still his least useful aerial), and while the buffs do not truly compensate for his nerfs, he remains a strong character.

*{{change|The PK Starstorm trophy adds "Ness" in parentheses once [[Lucas]] is downloaded, as Lucas's trophy is also named "PK Starstorm"}}

*{{nerf|PK freeze has more landing lag (25 frames → 30).}}

*{{Sm|BestNess|USA}} - A known Ness player for most of competitive ''Smash 4'', as well as the best Ness player in the world in 2018, with some of Ness's best regional performances, such as winning {{Trn|Super Smash Fight Club 4}} over {{Sm|Elegant}} and {{Sm|Ned}}, and placing 7th at {{Trn|SCR 2018}} defeating {{Sm|Zenyou}}. He also had some of Ness's best major performances since FOW, placing 13th at {{Trn|The Big House 8}} defeating {{Sm|Vinnie}}, placing 25th at {{Trn|GENESIS 5}}, and defeating {{Sm|Light|p=Connecticut}} at {{Trn|Super Smash Con 2018}}.

*{{Sm|FOW|USA}} - Ness's most well-known representative, as well as the best solo-Ness player of all-time, ranking as high as 12th on the [[PGR v1]] thanks to strong major performances such as 5th at {{Trn|GENESIS 3}} and 7th at {{Trn|EVO 2015}}. His activity at national-level events dwindled in mid-2016; however, he remained a strong threat at events he did attend, including placing 13th at {{Trn|2GGC: Nairo Saga}}, and was ultimately ranked 57th on the [[PGR 100]], the highest-ranking solo-Ness player on the list.

*{{Sm|Gackt|Japan}} - Japan's best Ness player in the game's later years and one of the best Ness players in the world in 2018, having become infamous for his offensive usage of PK Thunder 2. His breakout event was at {{Trn|The Big House 7}}, where he defeated {{Sm|ANTi}} and {{Sm|Locus}} to place 17th, and although he remained inconsistent, he nevertheless remained one of Ness's most notable representatives after FOW's inactivity, placing 5th at {{Trn|Rikabura 8}} defeating {{Sm|Abadango}}, as well as 9th at {{Trn|Umebura 32}}.

*{{Sm|NAKAT|USA}} - One of the best Ness players of all-time, co-maining the character alongside {{SSB4|Fox}}. He primarily played Ness to place 7th at {{Trn|Super Smash Con 2015}} and 13th at {{Trn|Pound 2016}}, but played more Fox as time went on. However, he once again began focusing on Ness in 2017, most notably using primarily Ness to place 13th at {{Trn|EVO 2017}} and 17th at both {{Trn|GameTyrant Expo 2017}} and {{Trn|2GGC: Fire Emblem Saga}}. He was ultimately ranked 49th on the [[PGR 100]] with both Fox and Ness, the only Ness player in the top 50.

*{{Sm|Shaky|USA}} - The second-best solo-Ness player after FOW in the early metagame, placing 5th at {{Trn|Paragon Los Angeles 2015}} and 7th at {{Trn|CEO 2015}} and ranking 16th on the [[PGR v1]]. Despite low activity for the rest of competitive ''Smash 4'', he was still recognized as one of the game's best Ness players, ranking 83rd on the [[PGR 100]].

*{{Sm|S1|Netherlands}} - The best Ness player in Europe, as well as one of Europe's best players overall, ranking 5th on the [[European Smash 4 Power Rankings]]. He regularly made top 8 appearances at European events, which includes some of Europe's largest events such as 7th at {{Trn|B.E.A.S.T 6}} and {{Trn|Syndicate 2017}}. Internationally, his best performance was placing 5th at {{Trn|Midwest Mayhem 11}}.

*{{Sm|taranito|Japan}} - Japan's best Ness player in the game's earlier years, placing 5th at {{Trn|Umebura 25}} defeating {{Sm|Tsu}} and 13th at {{Trn|Sumabato for THE BIG HOUSE}} defeating {{Sm|9B}}. Although eventually surpassed by Gackt, taranito remained the second-best Ness player in Japan, with placements such as 17th at both {{Trn|EVO Japan 2018}} and {{Trn|Umebura 34}}.

*{{Sm|The Great Gonzales|USA}} - Although already a known player in Tristate, having defeated {{Sm|ScAtt}} at {{Trn|KTAR XIX}} and placed 9th at {{Trn|Apex 2016}}, he became best known for his run to 5th at {{Trn|Royal Flush}} defeating {{Sm|Mr.E}}, {{Sm|Pink Fresh}}, and {{Sm|WaDi}}. He has since become one of North America's best Ness players, with performances such as 17th at {{Trn|Smash 'N' Splash 3}} and 25th at {{Trn|Frostbite 2018}}, defeating {{Sm|Lima}} in the latter event.

 

===Tier placement and history===

Opinions on Ness' competitive viability have shifted throughout the game's lifespan. During the early metagame, smashers immediately noticed the vast buffs made to Ness, including the removal of the 10 extra frame grab-release animations, significant improvements to his combo game, and edge-trumping making his recovery less exploitable. These buffs, alongside Ness having one of the best throw games in ''SSB4'', a highly versatile aerial game, and excellent KO power and damage output, led many players to believe that Ness was at least a high tier, with a few going as far as to call him a top tier. These claims were backed up with above-average results in competitive play throughout the first two years of the game's lifespan, with {{Sm|FOW}} playing 5th at {{Trn|GENESIS 3}} and 7th at {{Trn|EVO 2015}} and {{Sm|Shaky}} placing 7th at {{Trn|CEO 2015}} and 9th at GENESIS 3. Ness's positive reception solidified him into the 13th position on the first official ''4BR'' [[tier list]]. This reception continued onto the second tier list, where Ness saw a small drop to 16th, mainly due to the additions of {{SSB4|Bayonetta}} and {{SSB4|Corrin}}.

 

Over time, however, Ness' flaws came to be more apparent, with players noticing that his subpar mobility, mediocre ground game, and notably gimpable recovery made him struggle against several high and top tiers, most notably {{SSB4|Rosalina & Luma}} and {{SSB4|Corrin}}. As a result, opinions on Ness began to fall off drastically: his results stagnated as many of his best players became less active by the end of 2016. In addition, Ness's fellow ''EarthBound'' representative and pseudo-clone {{SSB4|Lucas}} saw a shift in perception: while Lucas was initially considered inferior to Ness, over time, opinions shifted the other way around due to Lucas' buffs received from patches and his commendable results thanks to {{Sm|Taiheita}}. At the same time, Ness gained new counters in the form of {{SSB4|Marth}} and {{SSB4|Lucina}}, whose buffs also helped create a large spike in popularity. Although Ness still saw strong results, such as FOW placing 17th at {{Trn|2GGT: ZeRo Saga}} and {{Sm|S1}} placing 5th at {{Trn|BEAST 7}}, it did not compensate the loss of his stagnant results he had already suffered. This resulted in a much larger decline to 24th on the third tier list, being tied with {{SSB4|Pac-Man}} for the largest tier drop between the second and third tier lists; this drop also had him reassessed as a mid-tier character.

 

Throughout 2017, several mains began to return to the scene, with FOW briefly coming out of retirement to place 13th at {{Trn|2GGC: Nairo Saga}} and 25th at {{Trn|2GGC: Civil War}}. NAKAT, despite using Ness as a secondary in favor of Fox in 2016, began to co-main Ness. With Ness, NAKAT saw great results such as 3rd at {{Trn|Smash Factor 6}}, 13th at {{Trn|EVO 2017}}, and 17th at both {{Trn|GameTyrant Expo 2017}} and {{Trn|2GGC: Fire Emblem Saga}}. Other notable players include {{Sm|The Great Gonzales}}, who placed 5th at {{Trn|Royal Flush}} and 17th at {{Trn|Smash 'N' Splash 3}}, and {{Sm|Gackt}}, who had a breakout performance at {{Trn|The Big House 7}} by defeating {{Sm|ANTi}}, {{Sm|Locus}}, and {{Sm|Mistake}}, ultimately placing 17th. These improved results, however, failed to shift opinions on Ness, as many top players, including {{Sm|ZeRo}}, {{Sm|Dabuz}}, {{Sm|MkLeo}}, and {{Sm|Nairo}}, widely believed that Lucas was superior to Ness. Due to this, Ness dropped once again on the fourth and final tier list to 28th/29th, now sharing the spot with Lucas, though due to the expansion of the tiers, he was once again considered a high tier character.

 

This placement, as well as his tie with Lucas, was challenged in 2018, as several dedicated players, including Gackt, S1, and {{Sm|BestNess}}, continued to see above-average placements at a national level, with Gackt placing 17th at {{Trn|EVO Japan 2018}}, S1 placing 5th at {{Trn|Midwest Mayhem 11}}, and BestNess placing 13th at {{Trn|The Big House 8}}, to name a few. Furthermore, Lucas's results dropped significantly as Taiheita entered retirement. With Ness's rise by the end of the game's active lifespan as well as improved results over characters such as {{SSB4|Greninja}}, {{SSB4|Villager}}, and {{SSB4|Bowser}}, players such as Dabuz once again believed that Ness was the superior ''EarthBound'' character and deserved to be higher on the tier list.

 

Despite the ups and downs Ness had faced, he is unanimously considered superior to any of his previous incarnations, although several players use secondaries in order to complement the character on a national level.